How to detach from my entitled sister's future after she has parasitized my parent's resources and they are in a nursing home or dead?

Covidfornow
While guardianship of parents will keep sister out of parents pockets, it can’t keep you from worrying about your sister and when your parents ask you to help her, you will feel the anger and distress all over again at having to say no or worse, agreeing to her demands. Please do find a therapist to help you through this very tough time.

So I understand your desire for sister to get a life. I didn’t read your question as how to get rid of sister but more as how to get rid of sister and not worry about her.
A tall order as apparently the parents in using you to provide the tough love also made you feel responsible for what happens to sister.

If sister had been living by hook or crook on the streets she would be dead, adept at manipulating others ( not just parents) married etc. something. Anything. Who knows, perhaps have had a successful life. when parents don’t believe their children are able it often turns out that way.
As it is, , she is ill equipped to manage any sort of life.

A friend of mine has a sister who was diagnosed with “learned helplessness”. She drives my friend so crazy that friend pays her sisters condo mortgage rather than deal with her. She does have more to work with than It appears your sister does but if my friend didn’t assist, her sister would already be finding her way to the homeless shelter..and this sister once had a successful career. Her poison was gambling.

The only thing my friend demands in exchange for paying the mtg is that if sister should ever move (sell), friend would be made whole and that sis see a therapist weekly ... which has helped to a degree. that’s where the learned helplessness label came in. This sis has insurance to
pay for the therapy. Does your sister have insurance?
Friends Sis has social security and Medicare.

Your sister has NEVER worked or married, is that correct? Never paid into social security?
Did she graduate high school? Does she have known medical or psychological issues diagnosed by a doctor at any time?

Here is a link for your area that might offer some guidance on what would be available and what it would take to get it.

https://www.eaaa.org/aging-and-disability-resource-center/

I would quit wanting to know her plans. It gives her leverage over you. The people I’ve known who live off of the vulnerable are like feral cats. They won’t miss an easy mark. No disrespect intended but it appears to work for them. Underneath that tough love, I suspect there is a tender heart. Let us know how it goes with the attorney. Make a call to find the therapist first thing tomorrow.

Covid4now - so in reading your updates (btw super helpful for all of us, so thanks 4 doing this), Sissy is just 1 of the siblings and the others (or their SOs) have thier own issues, that's it, right?

if so, I’d talk with the atty you are going to see, about you being named guardian for your folks. Not just DPOA but full on guardianships over both of them.

Issue for me with dpoa when you have a elder who just can’t say “NO and what part did you not understand... the N or the O”, is that the elders can& will still be manipulated by Sissy or whomever..... the folks will still have control over their checkbook, debit card... they can go to the bank (driven there by Sissy) and take out $ to give her..... Sissy can still coerce Mom to buy stuff for her.... have Dad pay for stuff. Like you attempt to evict Sissy but as your folks own the home, they can say to the sheriffs deputy who come to serve the eviction, “oh we don’t want to do that” so deputy leaves. Yeah you might be the DPOA but unless your are there with 24/7 oversight to keep folks from doing crap like this, it’s gonna happen. After all Sissy has decades of experience as a manipulative slug. Every family has 1, mine was a worthless but beyond tres charming cousin who got serious $ from my mom and all the other Aunts & Uncles that he could & for decades.

Getting guardianships will keep interference from the Sibs from ever being an issue.
If your folks have a home, there will be $ to pay attys for guardianships. If your siblings have issues in their past (or their family members) like been arrested for drugs or have a kid or grandkid with juvee issues living with them or they don’t have jobs or secure retirements, ime a judge won’t ever name them as guardian. Guardianships gives you definite authority. So Sissy or a bad SIL cannot interfere with the hard decisions that you need to make in the near future. Just sayin’!

Oh boy, I am overwhelmed just reading this.

So if Mom is 88 then ur in your 60s? How old is sister? I guess she has never worked and depended on parents? She has a mental disorder? If under 65 maybe she can get SS disability? If the disability has been life long, she maybe able to get it on parents SS. She would get Medicare and Medicaid. Maybe she could get Supplemental Security Income (SSI). This would come with Medicaid. Social Services in your County may be able to help her. Office of Aging and Adult Protection Services may have some resources. The one thing I would do if it ever comes up, is allow the State to become guardian of your sister. They will be able to get her the resources she needs faster than u can.

Now Medicaid. If you need to place Mom in a NH, all her assets (except car and house) have to be spent on her care. You mention loans on insurance, if insurance policies have cash in value, Medicaid requires they be cashed in. You can use some of her assets to prepay her funeral. Pay off bills. But you will need to spend down what she has to the Medicaid cap of 2k (maybe different in ur state) With me, my Mom was in an AL and money was running out. She had not quite 2Ok left. Medicaid in NJ gives you 90 days to apply, spend down and find a LTC facility. I applied in April, Mom paid May and June (9600 a month) in LTC which brought her under the 2k cap. In the meantime I cashed in her insurance policies totaling 10k and used it to prepay her funeral. Got them all the info they needed and confirmed they had it all and Medicaid started paying July 1st.

As said, for sister to remain in the house she will need to prove she can pay the bills and taxes because when Mom dies a lean will be put on the house by Medicaid. Sis will then need to prove again that its her residence and she can maintain it. If she can, she can remain in the home until her death, she leaves or the house is sold. Upon sale, the lean will be satisfied. But we know that won't happen because sis has no income.

So its selling the house, which has to be Market Value, so does the car. So, if Mom is on Medicaid when the house is sold, Medicaid will stop and the proceeds spent down and then she goes back on Medicaid. Do not use any of your money for upkeep on the house, like taxes. I paid the the utilities but only had one light that came on and off with a timer. Had the heat set at 55. I did not pay the taxes. Very high in NJ. Medicaid would not guarantee I would be able to reimburse myself from the proceeds. Any income Mom receives like SS and pension, will go to offset her care. There will be nothing for sister because Mom will have no money. During the spend down all money has to be spent on or for Mom.

I so feel for you. At this point of your life you have to think about your future. So supporting sister is really not something u can't afford to do. And if the house sells Medicaid look back does not allow for sister to receive any of the proceeds. So she will not be able to receive any large amount of money to leave unless that comes out of ur pocket.

So good luck with the Lawyer and he can help u sort thru all of this.

Who is authorized to sell the house? And deal with the insurance? Do you have POA?
I am glad to see you have hired an Elder Care Attorney. Igloo has given some great advice.
It might actually be difficult to get sister out of the house. you may have to go for an eviction so this can get more nasty than it is currently.
You worry about yourself and you do the best you can for your parents. your sister is an adult she will have to fend for herself.

Parents are not yet in a nursing home, working on getting them there. The work won't stop then though, I'm well aware. Then it'll be selling the house and its contents, selling down their investments, getting loans on their life insurance policies, kicking my sister out, paying the NH bills, getting their funeral arrangements made etc. Once they die, I execute the wills which won't be much since I'm pretty sure all their assets will be gone through by then to pay for their care. There won't be any sort of inheritance for us so my sister will have nothing. She knows this and still doesn't act on her behalf - just waits complacently for the shit to hit the fan and it's maddening to watch. The writing is on the wall and she's just too stubborn and in denial to see it. Thanks for the clarity about my kindness vs. my obligation. Appreciate it!!

Was sis paid for the care she provided to folks? No, room and board is not a consideration.

You are an ingredient in this stew. You cannot be the chef that decides the recipe.
Stop talking to your sister about HER future. Concentrate on this last time, making it as peaceful for your parents as you are able, and moving on with YOUR OWN LIFE.
For your Sister this is going to be a big learning curve, but you are not the teacher. Refer her to the resources you have learned so much about.
It is time to separate out from this family now and to move on with your own life. You have spent enough time concentrating on your parents; please don't move on to doing the same with your sister, as that is continuing what is a very unhealthy role. I think you may be underestimating the work and change you have ongoing on your own life. It will keep you very busy. Neither your sister nor you yourself will gain by co-ing her going forward.
For yourself, get your own help so that you are able to create healthy boundaries.
Wishing you the very best going forward. This is going to be hard work added onto some very hard work you have already accomplished. While you do this, thank your Sister for assisting you in the care of your parents. It is unlikely you could have done it on your own.

I’m going to approach this from a different angle...... You wrote you’ve dealt with Medicaid and VA benefit for your folks & “into a NH”. If both your parents are on Medicaid, your sisters inability to do for herself and her inaction will set in place her own future problems and likely homelessness if it’s that y’all’s parents own their home. The question will really about if you & siblings(?) are going to continue to enable her and use your own $ & time to do this both now & after they die.

Why? Well Medicaid, if applied for after age 55, is required to attempt a recoup or recovery (MERP) of all the $ Medicaid paid for your parents care. So whatever Medicaid is covering for their care right now if they both are still living in their home, is becoming a tally for Medicaid MERP. Whether it’s inhome care paid by Medicaid or Medicaid paying for doctor or prescription costs. Their home is a exempt asset right now but once they die it becomes a nonexempt asset of their estate. How MERP is done depends on your states laws and administrative code, but it’s there as a federal requirement for participation in Medicaid. For Sissy to continue to stay & keep the home, she will need to file w/documentation in detail whatever exemptions or exclusions to MERP and likely also need to have the $ to open probate as well. If she’s a slacker & a mooch, she’s not going to be able to do what’s needed & under tight timeframe.

Once 1 of your parents is in NH & on LTC Medicaid, it’s doing 2 things....
1. it’s building up a tally of maybe $195 a day paid by Medicaid for the room&board costs. $195 is avg day rate, your state could pay higher R&B. Avg NH stay is 2.5 years so maybe Medicaid MERP tally of 180k for an individual. It can generate a lien onto the house. It can be dealt with but requires actions (eg. exemptions, probate) on the part of heirs to do & requires time & $ to do as well.
&
2. it will require NH spouse go do a copay of basically almost all their monthly income to NH, unless DPOA has filed for a waiver for CS to get community spouse resource allowance (CSRA). So due to copay, there’s less $ available to use for home & household costs. If 1 of your folks is still living at home, there is their own monthly income $ to float house costs. But once they too go into a NH, there will be no-nada-zero $ for house costs.
So can Sissy pay all property costs from then to beyond both their deaths as there will be MERP & probate to deal with after death???
So if 1 goes into a NH, can community spouse / CS afford all property costs?
Is Sissy right now paying rent or a prorated share of her costs? If not, why not?
AND
is Medicaid aware of her living in the home? That she is there was supposed to be disclosed on Medicaid application as household size can make a difference for community & LTC Medicaid. Was it?

Are you paying a penny on anything for the house? if so you imho have got to stop this completely, either the folks & Sissy pay for 100% on house stuff or they go without. Can you do this?

Please realize that if their will has the home as an asset to be divided to you, sissy and other siblings, that your going to be dragged into all this.
If you are currently their DPOA, your dragged into all this.
If you signed off as dPOA on any applications, your dragged into this.
If it’s that you truly want zero to do with Sissy, you need to meet with an elder law atty to review the parents existing dPOA, will & financials to see what can be done to change the current DPOA and what kind of codicil can be done to remove you from anything after death. And do this now ASAP.

And right now you stop doing things or paying a penny on anything. If you can’t do this, you live by that choice. Yeah it’s a harsh reality but that what it’s going to take to break off the dependency.

You detach from her by making yourself accept that you are not responsible for her. Then, once your parents have passed away - before then, indeed, if your parents move into residential care and their house is sold - your sister will be on her own. Not your problem.

It really *isn't* your problem. But you don't seem to agree? - or at least you seem to be struggling with the idea.

Are there any issues or factors which explain your adult sister's dependence on your parents and might help to explain your feeling of responsibility towards her?

Your parents are now in a nursing home and presumably all of their resources are going to pay their "share of cost", yes?

What is left that is supporting your sister? Is she officially disabled in some way? Is there a Medicaid excemption for caregiving that will allow her to stay in their home after your parents' deaths? Will she have the resources to pay for upkeep, taxes and the like?

Are you the executor of both wills? Presumably when they die, the home will need to be sold and your sister, if none of the above exemptions exist, evicted.

You are kind to ask her what her plan is. If she doens't have one, that does not obligate you in any way to provide for her.