How do you discuss parent's lack of finances with your aging parents?

I used the friend approach. A friend who was helping her parents set up on -line banking, checking into assisted living etc. That way i was able to open up the conversation with my mom. Unfortunately - i discovered she never did 401K all of the years she was working nor did she save any money from her large divorce settlement. When we looked at assisted living costs i also found out she assumed i would give her $2000 a month that she didn't have for the assisted living. (i'd have to earn $3000 per month to have $2000 after tax). When she heard "can't afford that" the @#$# hit the fan, but we did find a beautiful assisted living pegged to income that she is still considering for "someday". It is a conversation you need to have before you get into crisis mode and try to figure it out.

jvalenti444, talking finances with one's parents is always difficult. Either they act like they are part of a witness protection program and refuse to give any information.... or they think what they have saved will get them through the next 5 or 10 years, but in reality it won't, because if they have memory issues they may still think bread is 25 cents a loaf.

This discussion is also difficult when one's parents has saved for those "rainy days" big time, rolling in money, but refuse to let go of one thin dime when they really need to hire people to help them around the house.

When it comes to why didn't the parent save for their golden years, we need to stop and ask ourselves why did this happen. Maybe it was totally out of the hands of our parents? Maybe they were paying for their own parent's care, which could easily wipe out a good savings account very quickly. Maybe it was the lack of good jobs back when they were younger.

Or the parents spent like there would be no tomorrow. Money was burning a hole in their pocket. And now when they need funds for their elder care, there are none.

In any event, it is too late to correct the situation, what is done is done. Thank goodness for Medicaid [which is different from Medicare] to help out in situations like this.

Just make sure you or another family member was assigned to be Power of Attorney for your parents. That way, the POA can make financial recommendations when the parent can no longer make good decisions on their own.

We have had this issue with our elderly aunt. She never married and has no children. I have told her there is no money and I do not give her money. As I got in deeper with the finances, she gave every charity $100 every year regardless of own financial situation. She then used her credit cards to pay her day to day living expenses. Needless to say, all credit cards were stopped and "paying" people to take her places has ceased. I buy all her supplies and control her income and I still give her very little money as she spends it on cigarettes while the taxpayers are paying for her inhaler for COPD. I pretty much tell her that she made her bed and now it is time to lie in it........

Very carefully.

Seriously? I would have lied to my dad before telling him he was out of money. I went so far as to tell my sisters that should Pop run out of funds, we would lie to him and each of us kick in a third to carry him. They agreed.

Fortunately, once I got Pop's affairs in order, he had more than enough to meet his monthly bills and have some extras besides.

Misunderstanding of who pays what is a big issue across the country. When a friend of mine was diagnosed with lou Gehrig's disease at age 51 she eventually had live in aides. Our friends thought medicare paid for that! LOL When I explained it didn't, they asked where the money was coming from. Her savings! EACH of our friends said, they wouldn't last a year doing that! Her illness went for 8 years before she passed. And there was still money to distribute. No she wasn't a millionaire. And she didn't have a silicon valley or wall street job. BUT she did save for a rainy day and we drew down her retirement money , etc.
I have friends (and there are folks on here) who figure that medicaid will pay. And they do when it is needed. But in my region of the country, the places that accept medicaid are pretty dismal. From my perspective, I'd rather have choices IF I can. I do understand there aren't many options for a lot of people. But this type of inquiry always makes me remember that we all need to save for our own care. Knowing what is available in your own community is powerful information and helps manage expectations.

I know, it's hard.
My parents were very secretive about their finances until one day I received a call at work from my parents banker. (Yes, they had their own banker) He said they only have enough money to live on for 2 more years. Apparently the banker had been warning and telling them for years that they need to sell their huge house and downsize. With the help of the banker (talking with them), I got DPOA and took over paying their bills online. I always thought that they were well off but they were just trying to keep up with the Joneses. It took another 2 years to convince my parents that they need to sell and move, they were in complete denial.
Have a banker do it over the phone? If I told my parents myself, they wouldn't believe me because they see me as 12 years old.

I have a similar problem..But Mom just says she’ll spend till she can’t..doesn’t think in any way she’s irresponsible with her money. They will share a meal and a beer when they go to eat, and then spend 3000$ a month at the local casino, like it was nothing...and she can’t even remember going when they get home...I feel fo you..I guess we are just going to let her run out of money..Talking to her about it is pointless..

California Medicaid/MediCal says it will help the qualified-very poor but, in reality, when
you check for vacancies in the "MediCal SNFs", they only accept patients discharged from a hospital. My sister has dementia and needs medicine management, meals, help with bathing, etc. She lives in Assisted Living facility and doesn't have funds for these extra needs.

The discussion needs to begin early- like in their early 70s. My parents were in denial that things would change and didn’t plan ! I find that irresponsible. I learned a lot from watching myself and my brothers scramble to get their lives in order and find them a medicaid facility once they needed full time care. It required 10+ years or planning by us kida to get their house and meager assets in a trust/ fix their home for them, shop for them , socially support them as they isolated themselves from people their own ages- etc. if you see denial from parents about their lives - I recommend calling it out and having tough talks. This website (aging.com) has ideas and resources to help.

Mom has always been a very independent person and all her life she was the accountant for her husband, both at home and at his private practice...he was a surgeon.

When I applied for her Medicaid as her POA in order for her to be able to enter a nursing home (she has alzheimer and vascular dementia), I had to close her credit card and watch that her SSA income was managed correctly. She is now on Medicaid and only keeps $105 each month of the SSA income.

Each day, Mom wants to know how her money is doing - she still thinks she has a great monthly income and does not realize that most of it is actually going to pay for her nursing facility. She tells me everyday "take my credit card and go have fun" and "take $100 from the bank for you."

Rather than tell her over and over that she has limited income, I now just say, "Okay Mom. Thank you." Although I do not take any of her funds, my acceptance of her offer helps her maintain her self-pride and feel that she is still in-charged of something in her life.

That is now. When she was still living with my husband and I, I had to take her checkbook away (not an easy feat) as she kept writing checks to anyone who asked without putting in the register how much and to whom was each check. I caught a $500 mistake that took me a week to address with the bank.

How to talk to parents about finances? You can't. They are stuck in their own ideas of what they have. It is their illusion. So, if you already have POA, then do what you know is best to protect their funds and tell them whatever will give them peace.

I used to worry about my parents' finances because they seemed quite generous with me, my sister and some relatives, but they never spent money foolishly. It wasn't until fairly close to the time they started needing care that I found out they were actually quite well off. My father ended up being in a nursing home for almost a year, and my mother has now been in one for almost 6 years but it has had a minor effect on her portfolio. If I had known their situation earlier it would have saved some worry. They used to say they were saving it for my sister and me, and I would tell them that's fine, but their needs come first and must be met.

I think there's sort of a catch-22 here. By the time our parents are elderly, it's really too late to do much to improve their finances. You can try to persuade them to tighten their belts and not spend so impulsively or on frivolous purchases, but even that can be a hard sell with a lot of people. It's too late for them to contribute to a 401(k), delay their retirement, or anything that could add real money to their savings.

The other prong is that, during their working years, most parents resist discussing finances with their children and feel it's none of your business what they have or whether they're saving enough. My mother certainly didn't ask our opinions when she decided to retire at 58 and use her inheritance from her parents to pay the bills until her SS kicked in. That was a dreadful mistake, but the grown kids had no say in it.

Now, at 87, my mother's finances are an open book. I do her taxes and my sister balances her checkbook. It's way too late to fix anything, though. I think she involves us because she expects us not only to correct any mistakes but kick in for any shortfalls. After all, she can't, right?

I just want to say how blessed I was with parents who set aside funds incase they would need them. They paid off their home and that meant if needed, we could sell the house to meet their needs. My parents were not wealthy either, but they had learned to live through the depression and were careful how and where they saved and spent their money. They had a few investments (not a lot and some life insurance). They met with a lawyer and set up a Will and a Trust. I was their POA and am also the Trustee. Both of my parents are deceased now. We will do a final distribution from the Trust to all 5 of us heirs tomorrow. How greatful I am that my parents had the mind to prearrange many things for their final days! They truly demonstrated their love for their children by having transparency with me as their POA and allowing me to care for them in ways that would not have been possible had they not pre-planned. While being POA and Trustee has not been easy, I am truly appreciative of parents who showed great wisdom in planning for their latter years. This has encouraged my husband and I to consider how we can best bless our 3 kids when that time comes for us.

It is a big challenge. My Mum had a wake up call a few years ago, her long term partner had to declare bankruptcy and as part of his bankruptcy proceedings Mum had to do up a budget. She had not done one since her divorce in 1990.

Dad is another case. My brother has POA and we have to find 10 years worth of banking information and expenses. Yikes! DB thinks Dad has well managed finances, but he has not compared the assets to the liabilities. Me, seeing the last 10 years of bank statements and tax returns will let us know where things really stand. Luckily? Dad has no choice about releasing the banking and tax information, the tax man needs it.

Reading all these comments--wow, I am glad I am not the DPOA for my mother. She and daddy assumed SS would cover their needs, and never saved a dime. My oldest brother (the golden child) swindled them out of the equity in their home. Nobody knew until we found out they were practically destitute and living on their food storage. Home was sold--a little bit of money was saved, but not the $300,000 we had all assumed they'd have, which was quite a lot of money 20 years ago. They moved in with another brother who added on to his home for them.

Daddy passed 13 years ago, mother still lives with brother. She is OK financially, and we wouldn't let her starve, of course, but sitting down with them 25 years ago and telling them to please quit financially propping up loser brother would have saved a ton of heartache. (There was no chance of recovering anything from brother, and he died about 5 years ago, totally estranged from all family, and NOT b/c of the theft.)

Talking to mother now about finances is all for my brother with DPOA. He keeps her on a tight lease, and gets copies of her checking acct, so anything untoward is caught immediately. She uses cash for most things and writes checks for the rest. She is a spender, though, and usually manages to go through all her "fun money" in a week or so each month.

My MIL is another story. I have no idea what she has tucked away or planned. Hubby is not the executor of her will, she does not want ME to benefit from her estate in any way, so I think DH was written out b/c he married me. (41 years ago).

Elders and money---arghhh....I plan for complete transparency with my kids when the time comes, at our retirement in a few years. I will need my son's advice (an attorney) and my SIL's love and support, I'm sure. Our money is all safely tucked away, growing nicely and we can't touch it until we retire. we also have a sizeable 401(K) and liquid savings. We didn't think SS would outlive us--but we knew we could NOT live on it, even if it did.

Not knowing all this stuff about mother and daddy's finances and brother being such a jerk could have been avoided if they'd asked any one of us for some help. They were not stupid---they just trusted the wrong person.

Conversations of a financial nature are like a big elephant in the room. Everyone knows it's time to face the music, but would rather have a root canal than discuss money! Unfortunately, sometimes you have to bring up the elephant, and go from there! Get a Financial POA as soon as possible, then tell your parents whatever will appease them. Most won't remember what you say ten minutes from now, and the rest don't have a clue how to manage it anyway! While you're at it, get a Medical POA at the same time! Somebody has to make the difficult medical decisions as well! My last suggestion is to check with a medicaid attorney, to see if your state offers the luxury of alllowing your folks to place their home in a Lady Bird Deed. They won't lose their home to the Feds once their money has run out, thus saving their lifelong investment. Not all states allow it, so check with an attorney. PS- The Lady Bird Deed also places their house in a POD (Pay on Death) benefit, which means your name will be on the deed, should they pass away, without having to probate their will to have the ownership of the house transfered after their death, It's a win/win deal.

jvalenti444 you can not talk to them now! The time to talk was when you parents were younger and they just entered the witness protection program. My mom who is 91 (2017) back in 2011(85) before she had two heart attacks and two stroke I tried to have a finance conversation with my mom. She been a widow for 30 years and never remarried and been on her own.  My mother's response to my question was.... You need to worry about yourself and not me!  I am doing just fine!... So, I did, so I thought I did.   In 2012 I was working 60 a week with a sophomore in college and and my mom gets sick.  For six months I drive to my mothers home 11 hours away from my home staying 15 days at a time tending to her needs. Paying her bills and my bills on family leave,   because I did not have Power of Attorney to access her bank account as well I was not her health care surrogate.  I spent $10,000.00 of my own money and let me tell you I have lived to regret it! five months into her sickness,  I decided to buy a new home and relocate my mom to my town. Well she was too sick to travel and air ambulance was 10 grand. So, I sold my home and move back home to take care of mom. What I found out is my mom only about $50,000.00 and I figured it was last because she was so sick. Well she recovered and is doing very well under my care. Thus, my source of information for my mother's finances was the Postman. When a bill was due that is how I knew she had any kind of insurance et, al and or other bank statements. So be smart and get all of "your" legal papers in order such as POA, HCS.  If there are no other siblings have the house transferred into your name this is, if you want the house. If you do not want the house do a reverse mortgage to pay for medical bills let the money sit and draw interest if you can.   If they are under 85 years of age get more insurance to cover the cost of care if you or parents can afford the extra insurance.  After 85 your parents will not qualify for additional insurance only life insurance which is not a bad idea if you have to give up your life at least you have some pocket change to start over. Also, if your father or mother was a veteran apply aid and attendance. for more info. https://www.benefits.va.gov/pension/aid_attendance_housebound.asp ; Having a talk with your parents about lack of finances is pointless if they will not cooperate. You will just have to come to terms that you are the parent now and parents are you children now. Role change can be hard but it is a necessary transition. 

I don't know the circumstances behind the lack of money but if your parents were scammed or stolen from, then you need to just come right out and say it. There is no beating around the bush when it comes to money, there is just not and that's why this is a time to be brutally honest with them, especially if they need that money for their care. If by chance someone stole that money, then that person really needs to be immediately confronted.

If by chance your parents happened to have squandered their money, then that's their fault for making bad choices and they can only blame themselves. Therefore, there's really not much to say on that one. If you ever wonder part of the reason why Americans are always going broke, it's because too many people are living beyond their means and not thinking of their own futures. I can see if there's important expenses that must be paid that happen to take up all of your check, but that's when it's time to start cutting back and cutting corners somewhere. Again, I don't know why your parents have no money, I don't know what the circumstances since you never really went into any serious detail that would've helped us to be able to give a better answer but all I can do is give you some suggestions but in the end, you're just going to have to come out and just say it plain and simple. Just say something like, "Mom, dad, I don't know if you know this, but you really don't have money for" and then say whatever it is they were needing the money for, especially if it happens to be for something important

Now, someone on here mentioned how they had an elderly mom who happened to whip out the checkbook every time someone needed money. It never would've been a problem if the checkbook would've been balanced and people who took money would've re-paid it, much like returning a library book you borrowed. I personally don't lend money because I don't have enough of it to be able to actually spare and risk losing. I will tell you though I still won't lend no money whenever I get the other money from my dad's estate and legal settlement from the court. Anytime you inherit money, it's just a one time gift and you really need to be much smarter with a one time gift  because when that money is gone, you can't easily replace it if it happens to be a very substantial amount. I don't know the circumstance with your own parents and why they don't have money, but hopefully they didn't just give away all of their money or lend it out to people who wouldn't repay. This is exactly why it's not a very good idea to have a checkbook as someone mentioned on here. I admire the fact that people can be generous when they can afford to be but I must also say people can be so generous that their generous to a fault. That's because so many people who are generous to a fault can actually go broke, which can also hurt them when there comes a need and they need that money back. You can go on for years spending like there's no tomorrow especially if you have a steady constant income rolling in. However, there always comes a time when something comes up and you need something and something may be a big ticket item. There are some situations where some people never marry and are childless. In some cases you can't find that right one and because of that you might make a choice to just not give kids to just anyone, I don't blame those particular types of people. In fact, they are the very ones who need help the most, those who have no families, especially those among them who happened to be disabled. Those among this group who have no transportation are the ones who actually need cars more than most people out there especially if they are socially isolated and don't have anyone helping them. In some cases you can't otherwise get a car unless someone gives you one and getting a car or financing for one is near impossible in some cases and spending yourself broke only worsens the problem. When you have to pull all the purse strings and just not shop nowhere after bills, you better hope you have a very big canned food and other non-perishable stock to live on especially when you pull the purse strings and must live on  only a few food stamps. You also better hope you have food banks nearby and you've made some of the right friends Who look out for you in some area, someone with whom you can combine your resources and help each other. You can't get through this life alone, we need other people. Right now since I pulled all the purse strings  for the purpose of saving toward a cheap car and waiting for the lawsuit to settle and pay the estate so I can get paid and get a car, I've been blessed to have a good  friend living nearby who looks out for me and we stay in close contact since I must stay in pretty much all winter. Right now I'm trying to get us a car which is why I had to pull all the purse strings because it's not just about me anymore, there are other people who need transportation  and I want to do something about it and help out those closest to me who need a lift. When you're trying to do something good and making an honest effort, you must do as much as you can with what little you have, which is what so many people out there should be doing. When you're making an honest effort to want to help others in your same situation, that's when the blessings start pouring out. Perhaps you can use my story to help those around you who are struggling financially. If anything about my story sounds familiar I hope my story can change at least one life and improve one person's finances. Finally, I hope that person can make a difference in someone else's life by reaching out to someone else in need as their own situation improves. Together we can end poverty by first taking steps toward improving our own situation. As our situations and finances improve, we can reach out to help others and give them a better life experience. I don't know your parents situation but I hope what I have to say here well at least sink in and they realize they really need to start saving money. It's never too late to start, believe me it's really not as long as you're alive. The only time it's too late is when you're dead, that's the only time it's ever too late. Even if your parents saved let's say five dollars or maybe even $10 apiece, they can help someone else who may run short at the grocery store. That's when  that person can either come back and re-pay or just pay it forward at the donor's request. It's never too late for anyone to start saving money even if it's a very small amount because every little bit saved adds up as long as it's not touched. However, the more you can save the better, especially if you can save it in large amounts, the larger the amount you can save at a time the better

Compassionate - regarding Medi-Cal(ifornia) position of discharge from hospitalization needed (to qualify for LTC Medicaid in a NH), here’s what probably is the why........ will be a bit long but IF I’m right it’s important to understand why and if CA does this then other states will follow:
- Medicare & Medicaid as entitlements are busting state & federal budgets.
Medicare is federal $; Medicaid both federal and state $$$.
- as entitlements are written into law (are “titled” into public laws / PLs) so MUST be covered BUT states have a certain amount of discretion on coverage & eligibility as each state uniquely administers its Medicaid (joint fed & state $$ based on federal formula). Like TX may have monthly income max for LTC at $2064 while East coast state has it $2190, as states can factor in cost of living. Like TX has personal needs allowance at $60 mo while MN has highest at $115. Most states Medicaid do not pay for any AL as the law requires participation for skilled nursing care aka NH care but some states do pay Medicaid AL. All these are examples of how states can tweak Medicaid requirements... still with me?......

So as CA must provide skilled nursing care as it’s written or “titled” into the M&M Acts done in the 60’s, CA has looked into how to provide the required services yet better cost effective. By narrowing the “at need” medical necessity eligibility for LTC to have a prior hospitalization, it enables the state to have a tighter rein on costs due to:
- discharge post hospitalization for “rehab” to a facility is a Medicare (federal) benefit. 100% for first 20/21 days, so not a direct hit on state Medicaid $ for at least 3 weeks.
- if they stay on rehab past the initial 20/21 days, it’s paid for partially (80%) by Medicare and then 20% by whatever secondary health insurance policy. So still not a direct hit on the state to pay by state Medicaid 100%.
- by having post hospitalization there will be a detailed medical chart that can be pretty easily evaluated to determine IF they are actually “at need” for skilled nursing care in a facility. Medicaid requires them to clearly show to be “at need”, so no more just cause their old, iffy on ADLs, need medication management. CMS allows for shared data, so state Medicaid staffers can wth a few keystrokes find what a residents ICD10 codes are, what medications taken, etc and from their desk determine skilled nursing care eligibility. No more 2 person nursing team needed to make an individual site visit to see if Auntie Hazel needs skilled. So cost savings there by state workers and onsite visits can shift to other state funded programs.
- limited political fallout. Majority (70-80%) of NH admits come from post hospitalization, so 20-30% who won’t be eligible. It’s manageable as small # of those affected & who might complain cause...
- some $$$ gets shifted to the existing In-home program that pays for family caregivers or community based programs like PACE which by keeping elder at home lessens time in a NH. So in theory family can go that route. Lots of $$ savings there.
Plus NHs like it as Medicare pays double or triple what Medicaid pays.

If CA is doing this other states will copy it. CA is like the 8th largest economy in the world. Not just the US but world. If CA has to narrow Medicaid LTC, it’s going to be very very not pretty for aging in America for the rest of the states. Entitlements are going to be very redefined & made a minimalist for residents if that tax bill passes is what my crystal ball reads. Really if anyone is looking for Medicaid for their family in the near future, please get them qualified soon so they can be grandfathered into current Medicaid programs.

Igloo572- You are spot-on. And the new national budget isn't kind for future LTC. I have done extensive research by Googling, calling, and trying to make an appt. with MediCal
to talk to a human. LTC is a "special department" with Orange County MediCal, but no office allows a visit??? The number I was given to call to discuss LTC told me "just have
her PCP list her needs and then take to any SNF that accepts MediCal ...for them to process. No, we don't a list of facilities. Call Council on Aging." Got the list from COA
and started calling, to discover "we only admit discharges from hospitals." I could write a book...but who wants to read a book without any laughs. Well here is one pitiful laugh. I called one of the MediCal approved SNFs- "If you are a hospital, Press #1; If you are a Dr.'s office, Press #2; If you are an attorney, Press #3. OMG!!! the attorney's have their own designated line? This facility is DEFINITELY NOT as option!!!
This whole adventure has been similar to crawling through a spider web.

My mother had a bookkeeper balancing her checkbook OR NOT! This person was the worst money mgr EVER. She was $854 OFF per month FOR 7 MONTHS! AND MY MOTHER ALLOWED IT, saying "she'll get it right on month #8." I said "No, she won't, she either balances or she doesn't each month. She is fired."

It does seem a shame for one's life savings to go to nursing home or dementia care, but that's what is happening as we live longer and longer. My parents both died after a brief illness, so I didn't have to care for them..and there weren't as many options as there are now. I am really not too anxious to share my finances with my children, but I do have a Beneficiary Book that lists all of my financial information and wishes to distribute my possessions. I plan to see an eldercare attorney when I redo my will next year. I may give him or her my POA since I don't want to choose between my children--and they never agree on anything!

I've read a lot of cases in which elders were victims of scams, but sometimes I had the opposite issue with my father--I had to convince him that a certain charge was legitimate. Sometimes there are fees associated with services that appear greedy (and often are!) but one is required to pay them.

I did it a little different than most. mom and dads dementia was getting worse. I began to see bills laying all around the house that were late or not paid at all. I started by getting the mail daily without giving it to them.I gave them the junk mail. I slowly took away the bills from them and they didn't even know it. I would use dads check book in his room and than when I was done with the bills I put it back. after a couple of months I was able to take over all of their affairs without them ever realizing it. once in a blue moon dad said something about a bill and I would say don't you remember you paid it last week. he said I did and I said yes you showed it to me before you mailed it out. he would say oh that's right I remember now.For three years or so I I took over any and all issues pertaining to them as there was no way they could do it on their own any longer.