My sister-in-law has been the caregiver to her father, who died 2 years ago, and more recently to her spouse of 35 years who died 2 months ago after being hospitalized for 6 months. She lives several states away but my husband and I were able to visit her for several days just after her husband's death and have had nearly daily phone contact with her since. Generally we think she's doing okay -- able to talk about what happened, expressing emotions, grieving, etc. But we've noticed she has this tendency to berate herself. At first it was about taking her husband into the ER -- if she hadn't done that...he wouldn't be dead so it was her fault. We worked with her on the faulty logic of that, though it continued to come up for a while (thankfully it stopped). But more recently she's gotten into this habit of, when trying to describe something and getting frustrated, saying "Susan [which is herself], get a grip" or "Susan, you're so stupid." Yesterday after saying this she went on and on about how much of an idiot she is, how pathetic and so on. She just gets into these little fits of berating herself.
My husband and I have of course told her she is NOT stupid (and she's nowhere close!) and that she needs to stop talking like this because it's not helpful to her. We've asked her in the past if she's thought about seeing a counselor or going to bereavement counseling and she says yes, but that's as far as it goes. We honestly are at the point where we are getting angry that she does this to herself, which we know isn't helpful! If we ask her why she says these things she'll go into the faulty logic like before. And of course we'll point out why it's faulty. Part of us think this is an attention-getting act, but then we don't get it because we are giving her as much attention as we can already!
I'm sure she's depressed (who wouldn't be!) and maybe some of this stems from that. But I also do think she has a problem with low self-esteem although she is a very, very capable woman who had a successful and responsible working career. We have tried to be mindful that she's going through a lot and of course feels very lonely (she mentions this frequently). Most of the time we just talk about everyday things and try to make her laugh, or discuss current affairs (though try to steer off some of those topics because she gets very angry sometimes). Sometimes we try to talk about the future, for example, she used to enjoy traveling so we've shared group travel itineraries that she could do as a single, which I'm sure it hard to think about, but we're just trying to plant the seed. I don't think we're pushy at all on this stuff -- just mention it occasionally and tell her it's something to think about when she's ready.
Just fyi she has no kids and no one else for whom to do caregiving so I'm sure that plays into all this, too.
Any thoughts on how to handle this? We find it distressing.
I think you should change your response. You co this habitual thinking by actually negating what she says. So don't respond "Oh, Noooooo.............." followed by the reasons she is wrong. Tell her instead "It is distressing to hear you say these things about yourself. You aren't a God, or even a good fairy with a wand; you haven't that kind of power; at the same time you are not a felon who should feel grief over his evil-doing". You are a human being. You have done what you could, and done it with love. Try to switch your G words out from GUILT to GRIEF, because grief is what you must face now. If you need help do seek it to comb through your feelings."
I wish her good luck. It is distressing to hear this behavior, and sympathizing with it will increase it. Do let her know that the more often she repeats these things to herself the more she cements them into her consciousness. That it does NO HONOR whatsoever to those she loved so very much, and now has lost. Give her ways to work through her feelings. Journaling often helps, especially if it is used to celebrate the lives of those lost.
Wish you all well..
I agree that the more you say/think things the more they get cemented in your head. I have my own issues with this and maybe that's why all this is bothering me so much -- I try hard to not get caught up in this type of negative thinking about myself.
Thank you for your comments!
My first reaction is ‘how old is she’? A husband for 35 years doesn’t really indicate if she’s 55 or 70. Perhaps she should be thinking about downsizing, and moving to a retirement village or senior living, somewhere she can make the new life she needs. Phone calls to you aren’t the answer.
Can you find of a way to help her think along these lines? She needs a new plan!
She is in her early 70s. She lives in a very nice mobile home park and has acquaintances there. I think over time, if she wants to and puts herself out, she could meet and strengthen relationships there.
Also, she is still quite physically and mentally active. I believe she is okay financially and could afford to do some traveling, which she and her spouse did before and that she enjoys.
I guess bottom line is I think she will eventually be okay, but this berating herself is very upsetting to us. We don't really want to make her feel worse by telling her this, but I suppose it's important for us to set boundaries, too.
You know her better than anyone, so whether she's the type to bounce back from adversity or not is better for you to say than for us. You might consider giving her a book on grief such as Martha Hickman's "Healing After Loss," and she can start working through her emotions one short page at a time. If she doesn't seem to be getting her head above water after a while, you can suggest a grief counselor or group to help her.
It's important for her to understand that she didn't do anything wrong, and to stop blaming herself, but it will take time.
Thanks for the recommendation.
If she talks bad about herself. Let her.
Juse ask her why she thinks it and don't disagree with her.
Tell her she can go to Counseling and it will help her.
Every time she talks like this, just change the subject and refer her to Counseling or better yet, set up something like a grieving group and go with her.
After a death. Lots of people think about what they might have done differently.
Deach of loved one is sad and can take many years to get through.
Prayers
She has a myriad of health problems and mental ones too. Acc to her, her DH hates her and puts her down incessantly. Once I was feeling kind of cross with her b/c she cannot go 2 hours w/o constant complaints--and I said "If you have been so miserable for so many years, why are you still with this man? If he is this abusive, why sit and take it?" Wow--deer in the headlights. I guess nobody had ever called her on this behavior before and she was shocked to the core.
Of course she didn't leave him, nor anything nigh unto it. She just ramped up her complaints. I finally realized that she WANTS to be miserable and sick and although she has family that fusses and helps her no matter what---she WANTS to be the object of sympathy.
This is an illness unto itself, and I can't help nor cure her. Your cousin sounds as if she is going through grief and this will pass--if she lets it. You are kind to keep an eye on her and I hope she has the sense to seek out counseling or some kind of support group in a little while.
Self hate is a huge waste of time. My grandma used to say 'don't tell people how lousy you feel. 10% will feel sorry for you, 90% will be glad'. In a nutshell, we have only so much sympathy to give someone and then when they simply refuse to take advice and they are stuck in a loop---it's almost impossible to get out of that loop without help.
Within a few months after Mom’s death, my sister and co-caregiver had gone into a deep depression which ended in her suicide. Again, I got mired in the “what if’s”, as she had depended on me for much more guidance and support than I was able to offer. Why? Because by that time, my husband had been diagnosed with MCD and I was again being a caregiver. Now I also have the daily “What if’s” of second-guessing myself in my care of him. These 3 tragedies in such close succession were a direct challenge to most of my beliefs about who I was and what was mine to do in life. I had always been successful at work; now I saw myself as a failure at home. SERIOUS need for recalibration with reality when it seemed the only reality was all the ways I had proved myself inadequate.
Feels like being robbed at a very deep and invasive level. Building a new identity, a new self-image, a new life … yes, all things she needs to do and is likely struggling with. For the people around her, it seems that insight should be followed quickly with change and resolution. For her, it probably feels like she is wading through muck up to her neck — forward progress of a half-inch feels like a major victory to her, but like slacking to others. So yes, try to just be with her and reflect back her feelings — someone has said that your advice is only good for one person — you. She doesn’t need advice as much as she needs your unconditional listening, love and support. It’s very tiring and frustrating and difficult to find and maintain the patience that takes. You are already well on your way. But if you can bring yourself to say more things like, “wow, that sounds like it would be very hard — is there more?” (period. full stop) and fewer things like, “here’s what you should do” or “why don’t you try”… Relieve yourself of the responsibility for solving her problems — that protects your energy as well as honoring her own way of coping. People sent me books - some of which I read parts of and found helpful, and some of which are still untapped. But they reminded me that they were thinking of me and loving me. Cards with affirmations of her worth and your love. Invitations to visit, or to dinner, or whatever - but INVITATIONS only, not EXPECTATIONS that lead her to add more guilt when she does not comply. Demonstrate your confidence that she will continue to be an important part of your universe, no matter how she copes. Acknowledgement helps more than advice. Acceptance helps more than “constructive criticism”.
We are doing out best to just listen and be supportive. Some days are better than others -- on both ends of the phone!
Love on her, as is for now. Thanks.
I asked about a specific behavior my sister-in-law is exhibiting. I tried to give some background and we certainly understand the overall situation that could be contributing towards this. I was looking toward the collective wisdom of this forum for some additional thoughts on how to handle this situation because we care deeply for her.
Fortunately I think there are many other responses and POVs that are very helpful here and we appreciate their positivity.
I think it helps when we are able to make her laugh a little.
I came away from all that -- with an inkling of an idea that it was part of the divine plan that she would be set free from all her suffering.. Amen?
By the way, this woman’s husband died in 2009 and she is still acting this way! She’s an energy vampire. She drains every ounce of energy that I have. I started to realize that she was like this before I even knew her.
Her behavior has become so ridiculous that I told her that I am not her shrink and to go see a therapist. Her reply, “I have gone and what can they do? They can’t take my hurt away. Blah, blah, blah.” I reminded her that she has many blessings in her life that many others don’t have and that she would feel a whole lot better if she was grateful for the good things in her life.
Then she said that she was grateful for things. I told her that I would have never known that she was grateful for anything because all she does is whine, complain and berate herself. She clearly does it because she wants others to say, ‘You’re not dumb! You’re not this or that.’ Sorry, that is exhausting to do over and over! Any suggestions that are made are shot down. It’s too much to deal with. She acts like the entire world revolves around her.
I truly hope that your situation won’t be this way. If it becomes a never ending cycle and she loves being miserable, then run! Misery loves company. I worked very hard in therapy to get out of my own misery and I have no intention of going back to it.
So, when this acquaintance of mine started showing me that she has a bald spot on her head from pulling her hair out, I told her to go see a therapist or buy a wig! She wants to have our entire conversation be only about her! If I mention something happy in my life, she completely ignores it and brings the topic right back to her self berating. It gets old quickly!
Good luck! As for me, I no longer have the patience for non stop self abuse with anyone any longer. It’s works on my last nerve and drains me to the point of feeling exhausted. When someone’s behavior becomes too much, and they have had a reasonable amount of time to work on issues, and they never make any effort to improve, then it’s time to let go.
I am all for helping others, but people have to want help in order to receive it. Otherwise, it’s a waste of their time and mine.
If she is 'stuck' on self-deprivation and low self-esteem, she likely won't change, or have the skills (inner psychological resources) or awareness to make different decisions than what she is currently doing.
* If her behavior is distressing YOU, as you indicate, tell her this. Tell her you will be glad to talk to her ONCE / WHEN she takes some positive action on her own behalf.
- If you do not set boundaries, she will continue to drain you (emotionally) as she doesn't know what else to do or how to handle herself for her own healing. If you continue on as you are, you are being a 'co-dependent' supporting her behavior.
- You may need to remove yourself from the situation. Or allow this to be a 'broken record' - it is for a therapist or support group, not you. It is called tough love. Gena/Touch Matters
Your sister in law's self beratement stems from a place of fear. She feels lost and frightened and alone. These are new feelings for her, and probably doesn't quite know what to do with them.
As caregivers, we are usually in a place of control and doing. We make decisions for our loved ones and implement the plans. All of that is gone for her.
She needs someone to take her by the hand and walk with her a ways. Walk with her until she finds a path/goal she's excited about following.
Take that trip with her. Don't hand her a brochure and send her off on her own.
You might even ask if she is happy living where she does. Might be too early to change that, but maybe she would be happier to be closer to you or some other relative that she could physically be in the company of instead of alone in her home.