How to help DH to navigate the system with his mother? And get him on board with her care?
Welp--it has begun. DH's mom has begun to fail and pretty epically, too. She is 89(?) maybe 90..anyway, has lived independently at home to this point. She drives but only to the store and to her hairdresser and her PCP.
She's begun to have a lot of falls. Mostly, a dizzy spell sets in and down she goes. She's not fessing up to it, but she has a 'fall pendant' and they register each fall or tumble. She's has lived in utter terror her sons would 'throw her in a nasty nursing home'...but early last weekend, she got really sick and saw her PCP, who was sending her from heck to breakfast to get tests and stuff done, fully realizing she was driving herself...I'd like to shake this idiot dr! Anyway, she did get one blood test done and realized she couldn't do it alone, so called her daughter. Gonna call her J for ease. J takes one look at MIL and hauls her to the ER, and they admitted her immediately. She spent 4 days in the hospital, with a UTI and pneumonia. The UTI is cleared up but she cannot bring her O-sats out of the low 70's w/o oxygen. She's still falling when she tries to get up. They moved her to a NH near J's house. Can't figure out what's wrong with her and she's being OK about being in the NH for now, but we all know she wants to go to J's to live. J has a daughter and 2 grands already living with her and a useless lunk of a DH.
All this happened last week when DH was out of town and he didn't bother to tell me. I can't DO anything--with the chemo txes I'm doing, I cannot be around sick people--and anyway, my MIL hates me profoundly.
DH came home from a 16 day business trip and slept for 30 hours. THEN when he wakes up he tells me about his mother. I suggested he go visit her and he did, but put it off for hours...he just doesn't deal with this.
I went to bed, and we didn't talk about it until last night--he should have run out to see her, or minimally, call her, but chose to do neither.
This is totally unfair to J. He is more than happy to dump ALL the things on her, and has in the past, so why upset the cart? HE is MIL's POA and I think she may have a cog eval while in the NH and she will not pass it. Then he has to step in and he....won't.
What kind of language can I use to help him to see that he needs to be a grown up now and deal with this. I don't think she is actively dying, but she probably can't live alone and she's been adamant about staying home. he'd be totally content to let J handle all things and he sort of shows up now and then when guilt eats him up. He NEEDS to help his sister, if he can't stand his mom (few people can, she's very, very difficult) then he at least needs to be of help to J.
Right now, J is trying to navigate Medicare. They won't pay for in home oxygen for pneumonia, she said, and I told her to find an advocate in the NH to help her.
Even tho MIL openly hates me, and has said it repeatedly, I do not hate her and I feel so bad for her. The one thing she hated is happening.
I did reach out to J and told her I'd bring in a couple of meals to them this week and she can freeze or eat them, whatever. It's really all I can do.
I have another chemo tx next Thurs, and DH said "This is just not a good time for that"...if I had been siting next to him I would have popped him one. I said "I DO NOT need you to help me AT ALL. Live your life and I'll work on saving mine, OK?" I know he is just frustrated, but he doesn't have a choice here, as POA there are things he HAS to know and do.
Personally, I don't see MIL ever going back home. And he needs to be an integral part if MIL's care and not dump it on J. Legally, he can't! HIS name is on the checkbook!
Sorry--kind a rant/vent, but mostly just so frustrated with him--memories of his dad's EOL and me stepping up into his 24/7 care is still very fresh in my mind and I'm 15 years older and have cancer myself.
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I think that DH is actually setting a boundary here in deciding NOT to jump in to the fray (i.e., the frying pan).
How many times do we hear from posters who say "I do everything for my stubborn, mentally ill mother who abuses me; my siblings stay away".
And we say "honey, maybe your siblings are the smart ones; you can't actually force any care on this person until they are declared incompetent".
Just step back; your one gracious gesture has been rebuffed. J can call discharge planning and tell them that things aren't working out, can't she?
Brown bag of (rotten) corned beef and cabbage retrieved on SATURDAY night, thanks heavens MIL hates me so much she wouldn't have even eaten the soup and rolls I had sent.
Saturday.
Soup was made Tuesday, who KNOWS when that corned beef was made but it was fuzzy (I'm gagging) and had just sat in refrigerators for who knows how long. I even dumped the soup, it had been 5 days and that's my limit.
DH said "see, as nice as you tried to be, anything that comes from you is going to get short shrift".
OK, worth a try.
He stayed at her place about 30 minutes, no longer. I asked after MIL and he said she was "worse than ever'---this is mental deterioration, I suppose some physical also. just asked if she was ambulating with a walker, cane or nothing. She's supposed to use a walker (with an oxygen tube trailing....) this is a recipe for utter disaster.
DH just said, "I am just waiting for the next fall or illness that lands her in the hospital, then I'll deal with it."
So, nothing to do or attempt to do. Guess I should be glad I am 100% off the page with her, just wish DH would not bring home the toxicity she's spews and throw it at me. He NEEEDS to help his sister, but he won't do but the bare minimum, and that only when J begs him or guilt eats at him.
Ah well.
I really need to focus on myself. Super depression has gotten at me-some problems with one of my kids and I am trying to deal with a broken heart from that. It's always something.
I am laughing b/c not only is there NOT 8 hrs of care being given, there's not even 4, maybe 2, reluctant ones. And all on J's part.
I made a huge pot of soup on Tues and packed up a big container and a bag of rolls and put that in a plastic bag. Dh was supposed to run that by his mother's after work and use the excuse that he needed to get home so he wouldn't have to stay more than 10 minutes.
Worked GREAT, except, DH grabs a different brown bag and ends up taking his mother a container of corned beef and cabbage--someone else's lunch I guess.
Would he call or text his mom that he'd given her the wrong food and to NOT eat it--he didn't know how long this had been in the fridge at work?
No, he would not. I was flabbergasted. I said "Look, I did this very kind thing for her, I'm trying to be helpful and supportive and she could get food poisoning!"
It was 7:15 and he refused to call her, said she'd be in bed.
Brought the soup home last night---wouldn't stop by her place to give it to her, again, refused. Said he just cannot bear to be around her.
Oh well.
We're having soup again tonight and I guess MIL ate the corned beef and cabbage---
Can't win for trying! I don't know, DH simply won't call or text or visit and I give up, for now.
So crazy.
I'm betting that SIL has figured that her mom will fall and get taken back to hospital for a do-over. Now that she sees just what her brothers are willing to do, she's stepping out of the equation. Good for her.
No, I think SIL just had to get OUT. Sad she had to go through all the drama to get away. I think MIL KNOWING J was not in town and not to call her was the reason.
I'd just lie. B/c I am a bad person.
Upon reflection, I wonder if MIL's over the top behavior may be due to another UTI. Not my problem and it would get zero airtime if I said anything anyway.
I guess I kinda hoped there could be a reason she'd be so crazy.
Dh has refused to talk to or go see her, citing work conflicts, but that's a lie. He simply can't stand all this.
Out of love for his sweet SISTER I had reached out saying I can make meals for MIL and that's about all I can do. No response. So I am done. Kind offer made and rejected.
Yesterday DH ran out of excuses and went to MIL's home. I guess it was basically a 2 hour scream fest on her part, the filter, if she ever really had one, is completely gone. DH came home, disgusted and angry and said "I really do have to step up for J, I wouldn't see my mother again if I could avoid it".
I felt bad for DH, but he NEEDED to see for himself what she was like now. He said it was so much worse than he had imagined. This is where psychologist OB could help out--but he has stated he will come to the funeral and has no desire to see her again before she's "laid out" and maybe not even then. He's kind of a jerk, but I think has a LOT of unresolved issues with MIL. (He will more than happily accept his 1/3rd of her estate--says that's "back payment' for all the abuse he suffered.)
Ah well. I am glad DH went and saw for himself and that he sees he has to help J, despite what he feels about his mother.
Whatever they choose to do with her going forward is not my problem. I WILL make sure DH sees to his responsibility as a brother and help J---it's not her fault her mom is so crazy.
Just to "get away" J and her hubby flew to Boston today and are having lunch there and flying home. Did this just to have a break. I think that is sad, to fly 3000 miles to get lunch to have a day away from mom.
DH, who flies almost every week of the year said "It really IS bad, if J CHOOSES to sit in a cramped airline seat for 7 hours just to avoid Mom."
Yep, it is.
Not a happy ending.
After I found out that DH had 'accidentally' left his phone on the charger, but turned OFF, b/c he KNEW he'd get problem calls from work and of course, the reminder calls/texts from J telling him they were kind of holding off on this family meeting---he plays innocent, and he probably really had some part of his brain set to 'off'. He is REALLY good at procrastination. I texted J & told her to incessantly text DH until he returns the text. (He does this to me if I don't reply to a text within 5 minutes) AND IMHO, she should NOT cut him any slack whatsoever. She replied "But he has YOU to take care of" and I shut that down. He does next to nothing for me, and that is FINE. I am not supposed to stay in bed. I do all that I can & what doesn't get done, doesn't get done. (The ironing, for example).
I'm not saying I wouldn't appreciate him to step up a little, but my chemo days will be over in 4 weeks and then I just need to heal. I won't be going through 'cycles of sick'.
His primary focus right now should be on J, helping her help with his mom. NOT me.
After talking to my in house attorney (my son :) ) he said they should leave the trust just the way it's written and not try to shove the POA and executorship to someone else just because his dad is not on good terms with his mom. Said he'd talk to his dad about familial responsibility & accepting the POA and such, meant he said he would DO IT.
Once the dust has settled and he has accepted that this is going to be the new norm, I *think * he'll do what he needs to do. He was exactly the same way with his father--but I was 48 and in my PRIME of energy. Not so much now.
I think he needs to go get the trust documents and look them over, see what mom wants. I don't know her state of mind now, ditzy, I'm afraid.
And he gets the glorious job of talking about no more driving. I hope she takes that well....
I don't expect a happy ending, but I hope for one.
Evidently, she's 'rallying' but is still very sick and weak. Osats won't come up on their own-that's a concern. She also cannot walk unaided, but that may just be temporary weakness.
I should point out that OB has been in the wind. I don't think they even loop him into group texting. He hasn't spoken or seen MIL in 3 years. You'd think a psychologist could have a better grip on his emotions, but he's as shut down and DH.
To be completely honest, I think J is just going to move her into her home. I have no say over this, as bad an idea as I know this is. It is a chaotic household (daughter and 2 sons live with them already)….and MIL likes her dwelling to be absolutely silent, all day long.
If that happens, I will encourage DH to see about reimbursing J for her work in this. J should be paid handsomely for this thankless job. Hopefully they will find someone who can guide them through the morass.
I appreciate everyone's comments. It helped me go from "help them! throw in the life jackets! Make dinner! Clean their house!" to the more workable one of 'this is not my problem. All I can do is stay calm and support DH.'
And, no, there will be no happy ending. She wants to live to 100 in her own home. Anything less is unacceptable.
Share this information with J. She needs to know that she needs to make a specific request of him, i.e. DON needs you to sign as POA for Medicare to pay for AL.
We also know he doesn't do tears or emotion. She needs to not do the emotionally needy thing with him. Maybe having the DON email or text him what is needed would work.
Then his sister finally got him and chewed him out a little--I guess he was SUPPOSED to go to a mtg at the NH with the DON to discuss long term care. I could hear J and she was as mad as she's capable of being. Oh well--he deliberately left his phone off b/c he KNEW he was supposed to be at this mtg. J took the day off to do all this stuff.
I said....nothing.
Told his sis he was going to come out to her house before his flight and that he'd also go see his mom. (Hasn't talked or seen her since Sunday).
Now you or I would get moving and pack, etc, what does he do? He puts on a movie to watch!
Again, I say...nothing. Just asked him to run all this food out to J's. (I truly didn't think he would do it)
At the last moment, as per his usual game plan, he suddenly jumps up and begins throwing things in bags and I said goodnight to him and went to bed. It was 9:30 by then, he'd talked to J at about 5. I guess he was able to stop by J's on the way to the airport, but so conveniently put off making any effort to see his mother, and barely time to talk to J. Didn't hear him leave and sure as heck didn't offer to drive him to the airport.
I slept like a log.
Going forth, I will be supportive and I am happy to do what I can to facilitate what has to happen-whatever that is. But I'm not a player in this game.
BUT--I'm not putting myself out for his mother's care more than taking in meals and maybe doing some things at her place--although her house is the cleanest place in the world.
And I feel good about that. I am focused on getting through 4 more weeks of chemo and a couple of trips to see my grands and then it will be Christmas and I have a new job lined up coming Jan. 1.
I really do feel so sorry for DH. His mother was the source of ALL his angsty issues now-both he and his OB are messes, in their own ways. J was the perfect little girl and doesn't believe her precious mother could ever say an unkind thing.
Wow--families. I do know some where love abounds (well, my own with my 5 kiddoes, and we do have some issues, but for the most part, no drama).
I appreciate the kind words that really just got me back on the train.
I think, in the waaaay back of my mind, I had hoped for some kind of reconciliation between DH and his mother. He took the day off and said he was going to take it and go out to help J with a lot of paperwork and such.
He slept all day.
J has been running the roads on her own, trying to get things sorted. She finally called him and I came in from helping the yard guy--and he was apologizing for not being there, said he was taking a sick day--which was a lie. I could hear her and she was close to tears, just saying "I don't know what else to do. It's too soon to know how compromised she's going to be" and DH is kind of half listening and half not. He did promise J he'd come by her house and talk and come by to see his mother. Do I think he will? Nope.
I sat on the bed (wouldn't give him the remote) and said "this is the beginning of the end and no matter how you feel about your MOTHER, that's a moot point. You HAVE to be there for J. He agreed. But it's a piecrust promise---easily made, easily broken.
I don't know anything about Medicare-and hence the meeting with the DON and a patient advocate.
His mom owns her own home outright ($450,000) and has a lot of savings and investments. I am not kidding when I say she's worth over a million dollars, and I also know she could burn through most of that in a few years if she goes the line of Assisted Living. But, I think (and again, doesn't matter what I think) ...
J will take her in, no matter what I or anyone else thinks, J will take her in. We've had this discussion MANY times and as much as MIL would absolutely hate living anywhere but her home--from what I am hearing, she's getting a little worse each day.
Now to top it off----Dh got an emergency call from work--and he is GOING to Baltimore. I cannot believe it. He's working his itinerary right now, will be gone in about an hour, for at least the weekend. Even tho he already committed to meeting with J tomorrow.
Had he just gotten out of bed and gone to meet with her this am as they'd planned, this would not be an issue.
All I can say is "This is your monkey, not mine, I can't and won't do anything other than meals to help out." Period.
I only owe my MIL respect for being my DH's mother. Nothing else. I have NEVER been deliberately cruel (except for the one time I hid her Xanax) and I have bit the tongue off in my head to keep from saying the wrong thing. My conscience is clear, you all are right, I can't do a single thing to help DH.
The absolute definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. I am clearly insane.
Going to work on this in journaling and therapy...my therapist will get me centered.
And even through this--I can laugh, kind of in a dark way, it's SO the way my life with this man has always been. And will always be.
Personally? I think they start talking NH's and ALFs and she will literally will herself to death. Looks like she will be (minimally) on oxygen for life and also requiring a walker henceforth.
Please take care of YOU right now. There is just not a lot you can do but be a bystander in the awful drama going on now; this is going to be a change MIL will fight. Perhaps she should be assisted to stay home where she wants to be, in all truth. She might not have to face then a horrific long slow slide over years in a place she hates. O2 sat is very low, as you know, and that is not good. Is there more than pneumonia going on with her lungs?
So sorry you have this heaped on you with all else you deal with.
Hubby is lucky I couldn't get to him with that "This isn't a good time for the chemo". I have HAD chemo. There's NEVER a good time for chemo, and don't we know it. But mine was 31 years ago. So see you in 31 more years midkid. You will hardly remember it.
31 years! That's great. I will be content with 20 more, maybe 25 if I'm in relatively good health. I plan to beat this and allow no negative thoughts as to 'what if' to enter my mind.
I have chemo next week, I have already got someone (my sister) to go with my and when DH started making some grumbling sounds about how this wasn't a good time (he did not mean it the way it came out--he's just perpetually overwhelmed, mostly due to his own poor planning) I said "You just go do what you need to do. I can take care of myself." I don't know how to say that w/o making him feel like a heel, but truth is, I do BETTER when he isn't here. If he 'stays home to take care of me' he just goes to bed and sleeps for hours and hours.
in 4 weeks from today I have my LAST transfusion and while it will take a long time to recover---I can do this. No, he's been of really no help, but God has more than made that up to me.
My sorrow is for the incredible amount of work this makes for his sweet sister.
Really sorry you are going thru all of this. Stress does not help. My BIL was my MILs POA because he was the closest, 8 hrs away. He went thru a lot trying to get MIL to a GA rehab from a Fla rehab so she would be close to a family member. One BIL lives 12 hrs away, we live 18. She passed just before the transfer. He worked at the time my DH and other brother were retired. MIL had a small estate. A home and about 50k in cash. BIL was a boss, he had been a Major in the military. I received an email asking if we could take over the Executorship. We live in NJ, 2 days drive from FLA. I told him I was sorry but I was already POA for Mom and Nephew and responsible for both since nephew has physical disabilities and Mom was showing early signs of Dementia. DH being almost deaf meant I would be the one making calls and working with realtor and probate and I had enough responsibility. I was surprised he even asked since his wife was good at this kind of thing and not working. I found out he never asked the other brother. Really, my DH has been extremely hard of hearing since he was 4 or 5 so how did my BIL think he was going to handle Mils estate?
Take care
100% agree.
As much as DH will dump as much of the crap of family life in my lap (no mind my health or my needs) this is one time he simply cannot do it. I can help him sort things out, but I have zero 'power'.
J's hubby has been involved in some shady dealings in the past, he's not a bad guy, his scruples are just a bit skewed. MIL didn't trust him. If he has any time alone with MIL's checkbook, it will not be good. One thing, even tho MIL spends next to no time with her sons, she has stated over and over that she wants her estate spread equally between the 3 kids. (So did FIL) DH always made sure than J got well more than her third. And that's fine.
Dh was executor for his father and a more honest man you'll never meet. He literally wrote checks for $110.33, $100.33, and 100.34 which J got. BIL asked to look at the books over and over and I proud that DH said "Dad wanted me to do this."
AS far as being POA--his sister just hasn't got the chops to handle it and her DH would step in and suddenly, things are well....been there done that.
I really put this out there as kind of a vent/rant b/c of course his mother is not going to live forever and he has acted as if she is---same way he acted with his dad. And he can't handle it, so he gets angry and who does he pick on? I won't put up with him being unkind to me anymore, so he gets silence when he's being a jerk.
Denial. Denial. Denial.
Y'all--all of you, are right. I cannot get him to help ME out much...unless I ask only one or two small things, but I am not dying.
I know J is burned out. She finally returned my text late last night (after I had texted both her and her hubby and said I can't DO anything, but I can send food, as she does the majority of the cooking). So, with two huge containers of soup and pasta salad and homemade cookies cooling--she texts with "we're fine, no need for food or anything, I have to figure this out". well, it's not MY fault that one should hope for/expect an answer to that text of mine to have come back within a reasonable length of time. Anyhow--DH is taking the day off and will probably sleep most of it, b/c he said his only plan was to go see his mother.
My heart aches for him. I see in those big brown eyes, the same hurt and confusion that he must have had when she was belt-whipping mom. So she's 89? She can still fling mean words around. I KNOW he is secretly hoping this is the end and she'll slowly die. I'd LOVE to see him put this to rest before he dies!
There will be no deathbed 'sorrys' or anything of that nature. Maybe once she's gone he can find peace. I just hope she either recovers enough she can go home or she can find a NH she won't hate. (she is miserable where she is--b/c there are a lot of other people and she only likes a few people. This must be hell for her)
J indicated in the nicest way possible to me that I am not 'expected' to show up at the NH and I said "No worries. I won't be around to upset anyone."
I am taking care of myself, I've never been so selfish in my life---but my NATURAL state of being is to see a need and fix it. J and DH are adults. I'm stepping back and letting them BE adults.
Anything I say just rolls off their backs like water off a duck. I need to remember that.
I will send that soup and stuff out with DH and he they can eat or not eat it. DH needs to sit down with J and the 'portfolio' and make some hard decisions. Minimally, she is now impaired enough she cannot live alone. Maybe I'll suggest that DH move in with her for a while :) Give me peace and quiet for the last 5 weeks of chemo.
Folks--you gotta remember I am functioning with a chemo brain and they make and say you do the strangest things. I won't miss THIS side effect!
Tell J that she has every right to say "no" to her mom coming to live with her. If they need to admit her as an LTC patient, they just need DH's signature as POA.
It is a tough place to be, I don't envy you, perhaps you can make some phone calls and find any home support for MIL, if she is released from NH. Whatever you do, please don't put you health in jeopardy, you've worked so hard serving others and deserve this treatment to work for you, and too much stress and pressure isn't good for you at this point.
Take Care!
Of course, he should resign as POA, but you are in no way going to get him to change his behavior. You can't get him to change toward you, how much more so his mom who has mistreated him terribly.
Just don't go there.
Anyway - let the siblings fight it out and take care of yourself.