Mom died a year ago, she had high BP, ESRD w/dialysis. She detested going to dialysis and didn't follow her Renal diet/fluid restrictions, & was missing dialysis often. This led to her having a heart attack & stroke. She was unable to use her limbs, had to be fed, was bed bound 24/7, and had a lengthy hospitalization. Early on, her Medicare was going to lapse and none of us had PoA (5 kids), so they couldn't speak to us. Other things were needing to be dealt with as well that required legal permission to speak on her half. My youngest sis & bro asked if I would petition for Guardianship so we could keep abreast mom's insurance, housing, SS, etc. We retained an attorney to guide us thru & mom had a fabulous court appointed one who visited her a few times at the hospital. I was awarded Temporary Med & Fin Guardianship. For some reason, the siblings I have never so much as argued with since childhood lost their noodles. The only thing that changed was someone FINALLY stepped up to be able to take care of mom's affairs (they kept saying they were too busy, yada yada).
Looooong story shortened a bit, when mom died, my Guardianship ended. Most of her final affairs were easily dealt with. However, a couple of snafus did arise in which only a court appointed executor/ administrator/ representative could receive or give info on her behalf. My sis, bro, & I had already paid over $25k with Guardianship, rentals, final debts, funeral & monument. So at this point & I decided to just ask the judge what to do with mom not leaving a will, leaving no assets/money, yet needing to be appointed something legal to wrap -up matters with the last 2 entities (w/o using an attorney). I ended up petitioning for personal representative, my sis & bro signed & notarized their waiver agreeing to go this route. However, on the court date the other 2 were there fired up & contesting! Contesting what?? (That I don't tell them every.single.little.thing! )I had already briefed the judge as to why I didn't have the signed waivers from them when I initially met, he also was aware of zero physical or financial help while we had mom home on Hospice & after she died. He asked if we could do co-reps, I didn't think it would be an issue since there were only 2 matters left to deal with! IF they did work on either issue, they never informed me. To date they haven't informed me of one single thing! The only thing I haven't informed them of is the costs of mom's visitation, funeral, headstone, rental, utilities, etc., simply bc they said they would not help pay.
In the past year I have emailed to update them on any mail mom received, no matter how miniscule, asked for their advice & thoughts, and been as detailed as possible. Over the past few months I have sent numerous emails asking if they are ready to petition to discharge since it has been a year & as far as I'm aware, everything has been completed. I sent one very lengthy, detailed email bulleting every entity that I have either met in person, spoke to via phone, or email, along with the dates and what the outcome was. The court continues to tell me that no one has filed any debts against mom & I have repeatedly asked the other 2 if they have any conflicting or new info, if not are they ready to petition. I really, really really don't want to hire an attorney. Mom's Estate was beyond insolvent, God love her heart, she was the most giving woman on earth, but she lived on her small SS check. There is absolutely no form of inheritance. They turned the simple need for 1 of us to be a court appointed rep into a 3-ring circus, then never offered to help in any manner, and now refuse to reply to the emails I send asking if they are ready to do an informal discharge, if they agree with all the info I've provided, ask if they want them or me to fill out & file the papers, etc. I'm at a loss!? Am I going to need to retain an attorney just to get this discharged? Am I right that it can't just be ignored? Any thoughts?
Everything is resolved already.
There is no estate and there is no money and there are no outstanding claims.
Let it sit there forever.
Why does it matter.
Not like anyone will jail you over any of this, is it?
I remember so well my mom telling me many years ago that she doesn't have to file taxes at all due to her low income. I wasn't aware of rules at all then and kept saying to her "Are you SURE; because this scares me".
My mom replied "Oh, hon, if they want to come with the paddy wagon and haul me off to jail, take care of my three meals a day, clean sheets and medical care for the last years of my life, LET THEM!!!!!"
I still giggle when I remember her saying this.
And Cared4, you can always tell Sis, "Look, you can sign this for me, OR we can just forget about it. But do know, if the police come for me we'll be by to pick YOU up as well."
Give a giggle and hang up.
It adds the bills you paid to the chain of documents for your moms Probate Court #/filing as a Claim against mom’s estate. That there is zero money to pay for it is, IMH NAL opinion, not the important part….. but what you and your sibling are doing by filing claims are y’all are placing “standing” for any distribution of the assets of your mom’s Estate should there ever be any. In my not an attorney understanding, placing yourself for “standing” is important as that moves you ahead of anyone else who are themselves seeking distribution. Fwiw “distribution” is what the division of assets is called and done by the terms of the will or the codicil to a will.
If your mom died intestate - without a will - then the court goes to however lineal heirship laws are done for the State. What they are imo probably doesn’t matter for you all if all of you are siblings from the same parents. What matters is that you 2 who fronted after death / Estate costs have a claim so have placement ahead of anyone else. You have “standing”.
and if your State does not have a closing date that probate has to follow, you can let it all just sit there. For families / heirs to leave probate open in perpetuity is done, and many States allow for this.
This has been a nightmare and I just want it to end already! When I had Guardianship for mom they were incorrigible as well. One sister, brother and I managed to discuss everything like the grown adults we are, make decisions, and carry them through. But the other 2 siblings simply wanted to argue & fight all the time. They never offered to help when we brought mom home with Hospice, bit they would criticize every move we made, call mom a drug addict for taking 5mg oxycodone, tell people we were killing her because we didn't force her to eat or force a peg tube on her. Dealing with them was exhausting and riddled with anxiety...and still is! I don't know how on earth I never knew they were so wicked and mean natured. They even refused to pay a penny on her funeral and headstone, yet demanded to make decisions for both.
This whole Probate/Estate issue didn't & doesn't make sense to me. Basically it was bc they contested me being granted court appointed representative. Maybe they thought there was money owed to mom somewhere & once they discovered there really was nothing except a heap of expenses, they were done with it, I just don't know. Regardless, I can't file for discharge on my own, the sister that was appointed co-administrator has to agree to what is on paper and sign her name & have notarized as well in order to file.
What they are, what their value is and how they are “owned” or titled will imho make a difference as to what kind of options are possible.
Like what is it about these 2 items that are driving those errant siblings to not just go along with you and get probate wrapped up?
By chance do you know if your Probate Court is big enough that it has staff that are attorneys? Full or part time but honest to goodness actual attorney that are staff to the court and the judge (judge may not even be an attorney). Call and ask. If you do, I’d suggest that you call PC and ask for an “in chambers” meeting with the staff attorney. It’s done at no cost, it’s your tax dollars at work. You go to it very super organized with a timeline on all this drama, the list of estate assets and debts (like what you paid for funeral, and court filing costs, etc), the 2 snafu items and how you think these can be resolved, then you ask what you can do to to close out the estate as simply as possible.
Also another ? For you….on the 25K that you and another sibling paid for after death costs, y’all did not file a claim against the Estate to be paid?
We have no idea why on earth they refused to just sign the waiver to avoid it becoming a Probate issue (especially being there was nothing to probate) nor why they contested it. Seriously, the grand total on the Inventory sheet I turned in as about $40. Heartbreaking that grown women, who should be consoling & helping eaching can & do behave this way.
At no point was any money, nor assets of value involved. No, we didn't file a claim for all the expenses we paid because there was nothing from which it could be reimbursed from. Literally zilch!
Im not certain how big our PC is, we live in a small, rural town, but I will call tomorrow and ask about your suggestions. This should have been reserved a long time ago, they just refuse to respond to me. Thankfully I have kept meticulous records, receipts, emails, legal documents, ect., even before the Guardianship was awarded, so that may be helpful. I just want it all to be over & not have to feel like I'm begging them to "do me a favor" by working with me to file an informal petition to discharge.
Exactly! The estate is insolvent! The 2 twisted sisters showed up at court the day the judge was going to simply grant me personal representative so I would be "court appointed" as mom's personal representative in order to settle affairs with a couple of places that said they had to have her original Death Certificate & the court appointed representative document to give or take info from me (crazy!!) The twisted sisted sisters contested it & got it all messesed up!
So, even tho the judge appointed my (idiot) sister & me co-administrators of mom's estate (him knowing full well it was insolvent), I can just be finished with it now? I don't have to file the official Petition to Discharge document to file with the court? I did turn in the Inventory Assessment over 1/2 year ago when the court requested it, of course it consisted of personal clothing & a few household items, nothing of monetary value. From what I've researched, we shouldn't even need to do the Final Accounting bc mom didn't have bank accounts, cash on hand, property, a house, vehicle, IRA's, etc., to list the value of such items, along with the amount of available funds, then subtract the upkeep of her home, property, taxes, funeral, final expenses, medical expenses, monument, attorney fees, etc., then divide whatever is left between her 5 children .
My other 2 sisters can't grasp that none of this pertains to our mom!
I have finally got the mail stopped-thank goodness, along with the phone calls. That has been a relief bc it broke my heart every time I had to open a piece of mail or explain to someone on the phone that she isn't alive.
I won't get in legal trouble if I just let it be & don't do the Petition for discharge? That sounds Heavenly! I'm still grieving bringing my mom home with Hospice for her to die, plus I've also lost 2 sisters as well, I haven't spoken to them (except via email to give updates), nor do I ever plan to! They were belligerent when I was awarded Guardianship, then became hostile when mom asked me, other sis & bro to take her to my home with Hospice. It was awful, they fought with her doctor, her Palliative Care doctor, said we were all starving her to death bc she didn't want to eat. They wanted her in a Hospice facility, 3 hours from our home, with a 3 week wait....still operating under COVID-19 restrictions....no children could visit, no overnight guests, no visitation after 9 PM. And they said Hospice & us was killing her by giving her oxycodone 5mg 3 to 4 times a day!!
So sorry for that vent! Shew, it feels good getting some of this out!
So you don't think I'll get in legal trouble if I don't file the Petition to Discharge with the court? I am so past ready to delete their email & never have to explain another thing to them as long as I live & truly get serious with healing my heart, mind, soul, and spirit ❤️
It can be so difficult to do that when they are playing such insidious games tho.
Thank you for reading & responding. God Bless all the help & advice you give ppl on this site
If you got yourself appointed by the court you need an attorney to get yourself unappointed. You say you cannot work with the co-appointee and that person won't cooperate with you, so that is what you need to tell the court.
It's unfortunate that a judge made two people clearly not getting along the co-appointee on a non existant estate, but that seems to be the case, so no, you cannot now just ignore it all and let it go away.
First of all, no entity need a death certificate to deal with anyone, or they could have got that themselves. They are registered openly. Secondly, the funeral home that accepted the body would HAVE death certificates. Anyone can get one from records. So you didn't need to be a legal conservator when there wasn't an estate.
So now you need a visit to an attorney.
Take all your information you gave us. And find out how to get this closed down. As it was LEGALLY opened before the court it must now be LEGALLY closed down.
Sorry. What a mess, huh?
So, even tho the judge appointed my (idiot) sister & me co-administrators of mom's estate (him knowing full well it was insolvent), I can just be finished with it now? I don't have to file the official Petition to Discharge document to file with the court? I did turn in the Inventory Assessment over 1/2 year ago when the court requested it, of course it consisted of personal clothing & a few household items, nothing of monetary value. From what I've researched, we shouldn't even need to do the Final Accounting bc mom didn't have bank accounts, cash on hand, property, a house, vehicle, IRA's, etc., to list the value of such items, along with the amount of available funds, then subtract the upkeep of her home, property, taxes, funeral, final expenses, medical expenses, monument, attorney fees, etc., then divide whatever is left between her 5 children .
My other 2 sisters can't grasp that none of this pertains to our mom!
I have finally got the mail stopped-thank goodness, along with the phone calls. That has been a relief bc it broke my heart every time I had to open a piece of mail or explain to someone on the phone that she isn't alive.
I won't get in legal trouble if I just let it be & don't do the Petition for discharge? That sounds Heavenly! I'm still grieving bringing my mom home with Hospice for her to die, plus I've also lost 2 sisters as well, I haven't spoken to them (except via email to give updates), nor do I ever plan to! They were belligerent when I was awarded Guardianship, then became hostile when mom asked me, other sis & bro to take her to my home with Hospice. It was awful, they fought with her doctor, her Palliative Care doctor, said we were all starving her to death bc she didn't want to eat. They wanted her in a Hospice facility, 3 hours from our home, with a 3 week wait....still operating under COVID-19 restrictions....no children could visit, no overnight guests, no visitation after 9 PM. And they said Hospice & us was killing her by giving her oxycodone 5mg 3 to 4 times a day!!
So sorry for that vent! Shew, it feels good getting some of this out!
So you don't think I'll get in legal trouble if I don't file the Petition to Discharge with the court? I am so past ready to delete their email & never have to explain another thing to them as long as I live & truly get serious with healing my heart, mind, soul, and spirit ❤️
It can be so difficult to do that when they are playing such insidious games tho.
Thank you for reading & responding. God Bless all the help & advice you give ppl on this site!
What is it you are looking at to "get discharged".
Because whatEVER it is, you already tried and were blocked.
Step away from it. Send all mail regarding her estate back to whence it came marked "deceased; no estate".
If bro and sis wish to do anything, let them.
Keep away from it and get on with life.