Follow
Share

My 90 yr old mother is bipolar + paranoia + who knows what else. She lived alone for 6 years but due to a fall....she now lives in my house. Mom is on medication which helps a little bit. I have chosen to keep her here (she would go wild in a nursing home and never ever forgive me).
For as long as I can remember.............mom wrapped her tentacles tightly around each of us (My brother, my dad, me). She manipulated us emotionally. It was real. It was bad. I met and married a wonderful man and we had a wonderful life. My brother did too. We were able to do this because of my father's incredible sacrifice .............taking care of her and keeping her from ruining our lives. My dad was my hero and he was sane!! Dad died in 2008, then my husband died, then my brother died. Mom moved in with me and she is slowly pulling me into her web with her complicated set of manipulative behaviors. (Guilt, hysteria, feeblemindedness, neediness, backhanded compliments,....). Don't think I'm being overly dramatic. This is only a simple description of her mental illness. These days I struggle to get any significant time away from her as she follows me everywhere - even to the bathroom. She will stand outside the door calling for me. I believe she knows she is upsetting me but anytime I try to communicate this, she responds all sugar sweet and says something like "I forgive you." She scares me...........always did. Because her manic depressive episodes are absolutely awful. BTW, the outside world sees only her sweet side.............but watch out when she gets home. Even with all this going on, she's still my mother and I love her. She could be a good mother at times. After an episode I am left reeling.....and I end up being the bad person.
How do I set boundaries without being perceived as an ungrateful, nasty, rotten daughter. I hate feeling like the bad person..........It wears on me emotionally.
Any practical ideas for implementing strong boundaries?

This question has been closed for answers. Ask a New Question.

30 Answers

Most
Helpful Newest
First Oldest
First
Maria, do other people in your life percieve you as mean? Did your father, brother, spouse, friends, neighbors, think that if you?

Maybe your "meanness" is a product of your mom's narcissism. Maybe she's all sugar until she doesn't get her way. You're not like that, are you
? You compromise, bend over backwards until you're bent like a pretzel.

Be sweet. " mom, i couldn't POSSIBLY do that" . laugh gently.

"No mom, that's not possible right now. Maybe next week. ". Smile. " sorry".

If she rages, leave the room. If she throws things, call 911 and tell them she's become a danger to you and to herself.

Sadly, Maria, she may need more care than you can give her, going forward. I think she'd do fine in a NH, because they'd have the geripsych adjust her meds so that she was calmer and happier. You might want to consider taking her to one yourself.
Helpful Answer (6)
Report
Your profile says your mom's primary ailment is dementia. I think I would read a lot about dementia and it's symptoms, behaviors and impact on the family. That might help you to understand how dementia damages the brain and renders a person incapable of many things. Often dementia patients follow their caretaker around the house, say odd things, resist treatment, make false accusations, etc. They can be very difficult to handle and tolerate. To me, the key is remembering that regardless of how they may have been manipulative, mean or hurtful before they got dementia, they now can't be blamed or held to the same standard. So, it might be expecting too much to expect your mom to understand or respect your space.

I would try to let go of how others perceive her as sweet, but you don't. With the dementia, it's not likely you are going to be able to prove your point. I wouldn't worry about being seen as mean. You decide how things go. You don't have to be harsh, just pragmatic. As long as you know you are doing the right thing, that's what matters.

There is a certain amount of tolerance that has to occur when you are caring for a dementia patient inside your home. It may be that the only way to prevent her from following you around is to have another person distract her or provide her with something to do that will keep her occupied. This is difficult to do, since their focus is poor and attention span short.

I wonder if you are attributing too much to her abilities in that she isn't likely deriving pleasure from annoying you. Dementia patients often annoy their caregiver and they are not aware of it. They are not thinking with a normal brain. I think it's difficult to understand this, but the more you read, the more you will see how that is the case.

If you continue to feel that your mom has tentacles in you, I might see a counselor to get some tools to help me cope and set me free from that feeling. It must be miserable to feel that way. I would try to remember that you are the one in charge of the household. You are the one who rules the roost. She actually does not control you. You could do whatever you want. You are the one choosing to care for her and you could change that at any time. This should help you feel better.
Helpful Answer (9)
Report
Maria, I did not realize that your mom has dementia. Listen to what Sunny is saying!

In a situation where one person is not dealing with an adult's sense of reality and executive function (dementia patients, children ), sometimes we find ourselves feeling like the ogre.

My daufhter, as a senior in HS, applied Early Decision to a college we all agreed would be a great place to go. She was accepted (and when you are accepted Early Decision, you are committed to attending)

I drove her there for an overnight stay for "spec" weekend, when students who have been accepted go to "take a look". She was going as an accepted and committed to attending student

We got there and suddenly, she decided this was a big mistake . She wanted to go home. Or back to grandma's. Or anyplace that was not this college. I told her she needed to stay for the overnight. If she still hated it in the morning, we'd talk. I left her there, crying and miserable. I drove back to my MILs house, weeping all the way. I didn't sleep at all that night.

When i arrived back the next morning, she was having breakfast with her 3 new best friends. All was smooth sailing from there on in. Sometimes you have to be the adult, take the bull by the horns and make executive decisions.
Helpful Answer (11)
Report
Thank you so much to those who responded. You are right - the new dementia requires a different "take" on my mom's behavior and I must remember that. My MIL also lives with me - her dementia journey has been quite different. I will try not to compare lol.
No I'm not ever perceived by others as a bad person - quite the opposite. But deep in my heart I feel guilty and nasty when trying to draw boundaries.
I just read about FOG...........Fear/Obligation/Guilt. That's how I've lived around my mom.
Just now she said to me....................."Look at you on your telephone. You're so nice to people. You're such a nice little girl to other people..........." My response was: "I know what you're saying mom. You want me to get off the phone and spend time with you. All my time. Say what you mean. Please don't cloud it with fake fluff." Her response was: "Thank you. You are always right. You say everything perfectly. You are perfectly wonderful." Don't take any of that at face value. My mom's words have always been laced with innuendo. I just take a deep breath and walk into the other room.
At this point, I will try to separate the dementia from the other stuff. Thanks again for taking time to read my rambling. It's been a rough couple days.
Helpful Answer (9)
Report
Marialake, you are aware of what is going on, so maybe that will help. Plus, you can come here to vent and to get support. That's a great start. There are many posters here who share situations similar to yours. I know I learn a lot from them. I hope things improve for you.
Helpful Answer (5)
Report
Maria, I know what you're talking about. Maria has been on the group for quite a while, everyone, so isn't new to the dementia journey.

There was a lot of innuendo in the things that were said. They would have made me upset, too. Most of the time our parents don't realize that our behaviors are simply responses to how we are treated. For example, they may want us to go to the store for them now and we say we'll go tomorrow. They can read this as us being mean and disrespectful, then start talking about how bad we are to them. Then heaven forgive us if we do something for ourselves or someone else. We'll be sweet to everyone else but them.

I have a feeling you're not to blame for this. It can be like being poked with a stick until you finally react. We would have to be more than human to not react sometimes. It is very hard to live together. I imagine with your mother and MIL both that your life is not as happy as it could be. Do they like each other? If they do, that is a good thing and takes a lot of the load off of you.

Well, anyway... you are not alone in feeling like you're a rotten person for not acting exactly as Mom wants you to. I think we have it built into us, so it's normal. However, we can't let it control us without disrupting our lives too much.
Helpful Answer (4)
Report
Thanks for the encouragement JesseBelle!
Actually my mom and MIL don't even speak to each-other. I wish they would. My mother is jealous of the time I spend changing and feeding MIL so I have to tip toe lightly.
My MIL (non verbal at this time) has taken over my living room (hospital bed is there) and my mom has taken over my kitchen, bathroom, and one bedroom. (I only have one bathroom - ugh)! So I have my bedroom and the basement to myself. I spend a lot of time in the basement lol. I'm okay and I choose to do this........................but God bless you guys who allow me to vent. Just knowing there is someone out there who actually reads the posts helps a great deal!!! Very encouraging :)
Happy New Year everybody!
Helpful Answer (4)
Report
Maria, that would drive me crazy. My mother has the whole house except my two rooms. At least I have a half bath to call my own and a back door so I can slip out of the house to watch the squirrels or just to calm myself. You sound like you're in a similar position of having a 2-room sanctuary. I spend a lot of time in my sanctuary on the computer. I am thankful for that.

I have a feeling the upcoming year will bring changes to our lives, and I hope those changes all work together for good. Maybe we can even be kinder to ourselves and realize that we really do try to be good people. We can just be pushed to the edge.
Helpful Answer (4)
Report
Is it at all possible to tell the Mom: Sorry, you just do not get to comment on what I am doing, whether I am bad or good in your eyes. Just stop it! Then walk away?

My husband and I have a code word: Stop! We rarely have to use it, keeping our arm close to our body, bending our hand up to signal stop!

Maybe with dementia this won't work. But my thinking is that if one is going to be accused of being mean, that being assertive and strong one time should have the effect of backing the aggressor down to where they will think twice about it?

Surely you all will know better, so I am reading later.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report
Maria, I read and heard what your mother said, and it is just unacceptable what she said to you, there was no kindness in there anywhere.

My concern would be for your shattered self-esteem and sense of worth after a time of hearing this from her.

There should be consequences, but I don't have a clue. I don't care how many people would agree that you may or may not be mean, but after a time, you could develop PTSD. My doctor covered this kind of behavior in others towards me by saying to me: 'Sometimes being nice is not nice'.

Figuring out what that meant was part of therapy!
Helpful Answer (6)
Report
P.S. Remembering now, I have a friend who shared: Mother said "you're mean!" Answer, "that's right, I am mean".
Neighbor,"You tried to run me over with your car", Answer, "That's right, I did".

While it is sad about the neighbor (who accused many), there was nothing that could be said, and my friend's response stopped them from pursuing an argument.
Helpful Answer (4)
Report
When a parent has been emotionally manipulative all of the child's life, that doesn't just go away or become "okay" because it is now additionally mixed with dementia. Marialake, odds are as your mother's sense of control lessens she'll lean more on the manipulations that always worked in the past. One of the most powerful is to make you feel like as if you are a selfish, ungrateful daughter when you are actually simply trying to have some balance in taking care of yourself. To have one's own mother projecting that view back at you when you love her is hard to take....especially if you can't tell yourself it is just the dementia because she's used it on you in the past. A truly selfish ungrateful daughter wouldn't even be manipulated by those words because she actually wouldn't care.....so it's a bit of a trick on the selfless daughter to cause her to be even more selfless.
Helpful Answer (12)
Report
I find it amazing that some parents can continue to be critical and blaming even when you are making the tremendous sacrifice of moving them in with you and providing daily ongoing care.

Maria, your mother's words are laced with more than innuendo. They're laced with venom. Just hearing what she said (and who she said it to), I want to throttle her. She is deliberately trying to make your life miserable while living in your home and receiving your care. I find that just incredible!

My mother does not have dementia, but she can be nasty and sarcastic like yours. When my mother makes unwarranted nasty comments to me, I don't hesitate to tell her that is she doesn't knock it off, she'll be doing it all on her own.

I've come a long way since I started taking care of her five years ago, maybe too far. But I'll be damned if I'll be putting my life on hold to help someone out of the goodness of my heart and put up with being disrespected and abused. No way, Jose.
Helpful Answer (11)
Report
Love all you gutsy ladies. This exchange has been such a blessing because I no longer feel frustrated and alone.
I'll try some bravery next time and maybe I can let you know how it goes. I'm in the basement right now ...........waiting for her to get tired enough to go to bed so I can relax and maybe drink a glass of wine. Always good to look forward to something
Helpful Answer (5)
Report
Maria I just want to say you are a selfless person to put up with your mom. She is a mean, selfish person who shouldn't even have the title of mother. What person with any kind of compassion would say what she said to her daughter while you're taking care of both her AND your MIL? You are saint to put up with what you do. I don't think I could. I'd be snapping right back at "mom" and verbally putting her in her place. I know that's not the right answer, but that's how I'd emotionally react.

Just try to remember that YOU are the one holding the power now. In the past, when you were a child, your mom held the power and could use and abuse you at will. She no longer does. You do. And that's a mighty empowering thing to feel and understand. Your mom is just a sad, pitiful, mean, spiteful person, trying to bring you down to her level. You don't need to go there - you are up among the stars. As my mom always tells me, "You'll get a star in your crown for all you do for me." You'll be right there with me and we'll be wearing our starry crowns! :)
Helpful Answer (4)
Report
Yeah, what Blannie said too! You are unbelievably generous and kind to take care of both your mother and your mother-in-law at the same time. I couldn't do it, that's for sure. It's a shame your mother fails to see it and give you credit, but her failure should not stop you from giving yourself credit. Yay you! You're a far, far better person than she is!
Helpful Answer (3)
Report
Maria--
My heart aches for you!!! Constant negatively laced comments--ugh, I got those from Mother all the time and I'd go home (at least I could go home!) and cry and wonder if I really was the horrid person she was telling me I was.
I still remember her saying to me, when I was dating my husband "Oh, you need to hang on to this one, he is so good looking! And you are just average, at best! What does he see in you? You're not getting any younger (I was 19!)--well I did marry this handsome guy and felt like Cinderella had landed the prince--(I didn't marry him for his looks)....but I felt like a cow being auctioned off. She made me feel like all he was worth was his looks and I was LUCKY! Sick. I see that NOW, but to have that going on 24/7--I'd lose my mind.
Probably this has been floated by you already--why isn't she in some kind of assisted living place?? She's sucking the life out of you. She's not going to change and the constant negativity can kill you, spiritually if not physically--I don't know your situation, but I feel so bad. Sounds like trying to set boundaries is not going to work...esp if mom has dementia.
Helpful Answer (4)
Report
Yes Midkid58 - I understand! Mom used to tell me "you have an interesting face and that's better than a pretty one." Not what you want to hear in junior high. lol
My mom also had a good side. I know she loved us and we loved her. I still love her. That's what makes this so hard. I remember some very good times.....but honestly they were greatly overshadowed by dark times.
Dad was remarkable - fantastic, sweet, kind strong... and I adored him. When mom had her "times" dad was very open and frank with me and my brother so the three of us were a "mini support group." Dad always encouraged Rick and I to get out and have wonderful lives. He would take care of mom. And he did - God bless him.
I always wished that she'd had a disease with some logic to it.

At 80 yrs old (following a hospital stay - catatonia) Risperdal was prescribed and she actually lets me give it to her. It helps.
The backhanded compliments, OCD, paranoia all comes with the territory. I'll never know what part of her current behavior should be attributed to dementia. After a lifetime of "knowing her game" ............it's hard to think it's dementia. Since moving into my house she is trying to take over - emotionally. It's up to me to keep that from happening or I'm in trouble lol
JesseBelle says 2016 will bring some big changes so we can all look forward to that. When our caregiving time has ended.......let's all plan a weekend vacation at the beach!
Helpful Answer (4)
Report
I have a hard time saying anything specific about my mother. She's not really narcissistic. She's just very self-centered and, to tell the truth, not very smart. She sees things with a very narrow focus. It is impossible to get her to think about philosophical issues or even the implications of her own behavior. When she and I talk, it is like we are from different planets.

Something I really hate that mine does is take the opposite viewpoint from me consistently. If I say I like something, she doesn't. If I say I want to do something, she tells me why I shouldn't. There is never any real logic to what she does except that she wants to fight at me. I had a life of it when I was growing up, though, so I don't argue with her now. Arguing serves no purpose, because she is right in her way of thinking. I had always wondered why I never argued with people. Coming home taught me why. I learned early that there was no winning.

Ah! I just came up with the right word. My mother is contrary -- always has been and always will be, I'm sure. The only way to deal with it is to find ways to discharge the anger.
Helpful Answer (6)
Report
Yes - contrary.
And I'll add - oblivious
Helpful Answer (5)
Report
I would put her in a nursing home for your own sanity. You can always visit her there. You are a good, caring person who deserves a better life. Her health - mental and physical - will only deteriorate.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report
All of the comments/responses to Marialake are very insightful and make me feel like you each are describing my Mother and our relationship! In my early Twenties I began describing my Mother as "Persnickity and Cantankerous. She has more than lived up to the title. I am at a point in our relationship knowing the time is here to let someone else be the caregiver. Every word of advice tells me to disconnect myself from her controlling and manipulative behavior. It's true " old habits die hard." I feel like a yo-yo and I realize it's up to me to take care of myself. I am making small improvements but have a lot further to go in this ever learning part of our life changes. I only admitted to myself yesterday that I am probably in denial that my Mother is helpless and does need me since she has always been fiercely independent and controlling in my life. How pitiful that it's hard for me to make decisions for her without expecting to be criticized for making the wrong decision. Her health is deteriorating quickly so I will be making the difficult decision to place her in A/L.
Helpful Answer (4)
Report
The mthr in my case was also mean in her younger days, and when Adult Protective Services called me with a laundry list of their concerns, I had to say, what's different after 30 years? Fortunately, once they are old enough, those horrible behaviors can be used to get them into a nursing home. Because she continues to verbally abuse you, and you see it as a continuation of the abuse from younger days, it would be useful for both of you for her to live in a memory care, nursing home or assisted living, whatever she qualifies for. The problem is that you might crack. Seriously. You are already taking care of one elder, and having a second to heap abuse on your back is more than a person can bear.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report
I understand all too well what you're going through. Particularly, the "backhanded compliments" struck a chord. You're falling into old patterns. I'm not going to ask how or why you let your mom live with you because that's blaming, and none of our business here. I will say that no one would fault you for putting your mom into a nursing home or assisted living. Your question tells me that you're still somewhat afraid of her. I can so relate to the felling of being left "reeling" after one of your mother's episodes. (Welcome to my childhood, and early adulthood for that matter.) The only way I got free was to separate from my mother, physically and emotionally. You don't have a lot of support right now, so you have to take care of you. Think of the advise you would give yourself if you were someone on the outside looking into this situation. If anyone judges you for anything, you can take your mother, and her luggage, directly to their house!!
Helpful Answer (3)
Report
I think one of the hardest things to do is to accept that you can only do what you can do and not let someone "guilt" you into feeling badly and then going ahead and doing exactly the thing that you didn;t want to do. My mom has always been manipulative and difficult. Now as she ages and has some dementia it is worse. I spend as much time as I can with her, as do my brothers and sister but she always wants more. I understand that she is lonely and bored at times. The staff at the nursing home think she is wonderful because all they see is her public persona. Privately, she can be very nasty and say things that are hurtful. It is very hard to deal with and leaves you feeling inadequate. I have learned to accept the fact that this is how she is and always has been and I will visit her as much as I can and advocate for her care but I will not let myself feel guilty. I do what I can do and take as much as I can but then I have to shut it off and take care of myself.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report
Marialake, You said, "How do I set boundaries without being perceived as an ungrateful, nasty, rotten daughter. I hate feeling like the bad person". Who will see you in this light? Your mother, the grocery store clerk, the postman, or the minister in your church? Your mother is mean, dementia has not changed her for the better. You need to save yourself before it is too late. I would say get some professional counseling for yourself. You will never be a valued person to your mom. I think you need help to realize that. I know, because my mother never loved me and was very hurtful to me most of my life until I got some professional help. And for those people who would tell me it is JUST dementia or old age, I can say, it was that way my entire life. I used to hate it when people would excuse her actions that way. She died 11 years ago and I have never missed her.
Helpful Answer (5)
Report
Well, reasonable people accept both love and boundaries from the same person.
And if doing that is mean, then "mean" moms are the kind of moms kids need.
So, your mom is not reasonable. So, show love. Do things for her that she needs done, that are not even contingent on her behavior or words at all. But, also be "mean" and be proud - i.e. don't put up with crap. Give her the silent treatment, give her raspberries, give her the evil eye. Tell her "hey mom, the sky is blue!" when she is getting contrary to every single thing you say. Even with dementia, some people can get a sense of when they have pushed too far and need to exert a modicum of self control. You know, the typical thing of being nice as pie to the nurse or care aide, but treating the family, who they basically know will be there regardless of how they act, like dirt if no one else is around to see it. You try to communicate through actions that you are there for care she needs but not for being beat up on.

That said, you won't always be successful and you will probably never have the real respect you deserve, and may or may not ever even get a thank you. If the toxic comments just go on unabated day in and day out, and it is just too much, feeling more like poison dripping into your system rather than water rolling off a duck's back, alternative caregiving really should be an option rather than your mental health going to heck in a handbasket.
Helpful Answer (5)
Report
You're the parent now. The elder doesn't get to control things!
Helpful Answer (3)
Report
I'm confused. Is she really Alz/Dementia or "bipolar + paranoid + who knows what else?" In either case, I don't think there's a way to set boundaries, enforce them consistently, and avoid being called Mrs. Meanie.

You give a few examples of her mental illness, but her behavior makes me think she's not mentally ill at all. Your dad kept her in check, and now that he's out of the picture her behaviors have amplified with the aid of all kinds of "crutchy" labels. Behaviors without consequences she can feel are apt to be repeated, so for the moment she still has a license to make your life miserable just as she's always done.

Forgive me, but I believe this manipulative, scheming, conniving and helpless octopus has been misdiagnosed. You probably feel it too.

In the meantime, go ahead and set those boundaries. She's lucid and smart enough to understand what's not acceptable behaviors. Your house, your rules.
Helpful Answer (4)
Report
I don't want to be the "bad person" to my mom. Because she has a sweet and tender side deep in there - and I know that she loves me. At 90, her manipulative behaviors won't change but I just wanted suggestions for creating boundaries. Living with her brings back a lot of emotional "stuff."
I was born in 1950 and back then.........we didn't know much about mental illness but it was something we tried to deal with and to hide. Mom had bizarre behaviors swinging from mania to depression. Also paranoia and OCD. Just as just one example..... mom believed that all our neighbors were plotting to kill her. (These were normal, nice, regular people). She was hospitalized several times through all this but she got off her medication as soon as she was released. Police could force her into treatment against her will - only if she tried to hurt herself or someone else. After a severe bout with catatonia - mom was hospitalized at age 80 and given Risperidone - an antipsychotic and finally - after years and years - she agreed to take the medication. Dad faithfully cared for her until his death at which time she lived a reclusive life alone. After a fall 6 months ago, mom is no longer willing to live by herself so she is with me.

I choose to keep her at my home. Her take on a nursing home would be - total abandonment by me. I don't expect her manipulative ways to change....... but I know I must set boundaries. Every boundary I draw "hurts" her and she withdraws etc. That's why I feel like the bad person and must remind myself to stand firm.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report
This question has been closed for answers. Ask a New Question.

Recent Questions


Popular Questions


Related Questions

Ask a Question
Subscribe to
Our Newsletter