haileybug Asked September 2019
If an assisted living patient has to go to the hospital for surgery, will they lose their bed?
Follow
Share
My BIL was in ALF and had 2 stay in the hospital for surgery. Once discharged he had to take rehab in SNF. Now, ALF says he can not return, he know longer has a bed.
If this is protocol, it needs to change. No vulnerable senior should have to go through that. thanks
This question has been closed for answers. Ask a New Question.
20 Answers
This question has been closed for answers. Ask a New Question.
Popular Questions
Related Questions
- How do I get a family member discharged from 100 day rehab into a nursing home?
- What do you do when your parents get in the rehab/hospital cycle?
- How do I get elderly aunt in rehab after she broke arm, can’t get up and down by herself and her 83 old caregiver can’t help her?
- In order to be admitted into a rehabilitation center do you have to go to the hospital first or can you go directly to a rehab center?
Ask a Question
However your BIL has established and documented episodes of abuse toward staff as well as disruptive behavior and unfortunately his behaviors are following him.
The administrator of your BIL facility is within their rights to give up the bed if BIL was admitted. You and your family will lose this battle. It sounds like BIL had an extended period of time out of his memory care. A center won’t hold a memory care bed in limbo forever. Memory care beds can be hard to come by and there are many folks on a waiting list for MC. For instance, what if the admin is aware of someone needing that MC bed and while that person’s loved ones are waiting for the MC bed, that family may be paying for extra CG to watch over the person waiting for MC. In a case such as your BIL, how long would be appropriate saving an empty bed? No one could really say as no one knows how long BIL would be gone. The admin is certainly within their scope of responsibilities in deciding to not hold BIL bed & give it to someone who needs it now.
The administrator is most likely thinking of the safety of everyone else in the facility - patients and staff. If the admin can make a case for this with proper documentation their decision will prevail.
However, now they won’t need to as BIL is in the hospital getting care. That admission cost him his bed. The center has their “out”. They don’t need much else. The hospital/SNF will now have to keep him until the DC planner finds him placement.
You can always to file a complaint against BIL’s MC facility using the complaint process which should be posted somewhere easily visible in the center. As far as payment, I don’t believe your BIL is private pay so he is subject to CMS Guidelines for MC conditions of coverage.
I will bet the administrator of BIL’s MC is quite familiar with these regs and will cite the need to keep all in the MC safe if all else fails.
Given his present situation, he IS receiving care where he is so you can’t use that as ammo to help your claim.
Medicare/Medicaid will not allow for discharges for non compliance anymore but a patient can be discharged forcibly for jeopardizing the safety of all in a MC unit. There is a process for this but it does not apply here because he is no longer at that MC.
Between a a rock and a hard place again for you HB. You certainly get an “A” for effort as I know you are essentially trying to look out for your hubby who has to travel so far to see his brother. I am sorry for you & your family.
Thank you for responding. I appreciate your feedback.
Dear, I have a question for you. Now what I am about to say/ask is coming from the deep depths of my heart.
Are you saying to me that if a person (ANYBODY) with some type of mental issues (dementia or whatever) that they are accountable for their actions??? If so, we a living in a SAD time.
Are you telling me these Memory Care Units claim that they are specialized in caring for patients with Dementia and Alhz. and that they know how to deal with the behaviors but really they do not?
I have always been raised that there is always 2 sides to a story.
With that being said, I wonder how I would feel or even act if I had was placed in a facility 4 hours away from home never getting to see my family. Or perhaps, how would I respond with someone who has a nasty attitude with me on top of everything else. Sick or hurting and not knowing how to communicate.
I have had my experience going into Nursing homes doing my clinicals and visiting and I have witnessed rude, unlovable staff.
Have spoken with 2 executive directors over the phone that had nasty attitudes with me. If they had nasty attitudes with me, wonder how they are at the facilities? Someone with this high position should never act in this manner.
There is a whole lot more to it than pointing fingers a person who can not help themselves.
By, the way. Thank you so much for acknowledging my persistence. If more people on the other side of the fence has some persistence, my family would not be facing this situation. Someone would be looking at what would be causing all these problems for BIL and trying to fix it.
FIX IT + Get him closer to home. Thank you
Thanks for responding. That is what I thought as well.
Thank you for responding. I believe you are 100% correct. The ombudsman had just stated to me 3 days prior to my BIL that the administrator said she wanted him out of her facility just as bad as we wanted him closer to home. Sad times.
Thank you so much for responding. I had contacted the long term care ombudsman about helping to get my BIL transferred to a facility closer to home. (he was in a MC 4 hours away from all family). The long term care ombudsman stated to me that the administrator what my BIL out of her MC facility just as bad as we wanted him closer to home.
Long story short …. That same weekend, BIL ended up in the hospital for surgery and discharged to SNF for rehabilitation. SNF said he recovered well and is ready to go back to the same level of care, however, administrator says she no longer has a room at her facility.
After about 6 months I finally got homemaker services, and medical alert system from the state. I was qualified for Medicaid Waiver, but there was no funding! So I had to wait..then took 3+ months from approval to start services.
My IL says you Only have to pay for 2 months more on lease if you have to leave for higher level of care..AL or LNH. Very scary to think that if I had gone to AL last year I could have been homeless after complcations of 'same day orthopedic surgery' this year.
Thanks for making me aware of what to ask!!
Question; You mentioned your B-I-L was only in the hospital two days and then went to rehab. How old is your B-I-L? I asked because if he is 65 plus and on Traditional Medicare, Medicare requires a three midnight stay as an inpatient (not observation) in a hospital before they will pay for rehab in a skilled rehab. If he was not in the hospital as an inpatient for three midnight's, Medicare will not pay the cost of his rehab!
Yes, it is extremely scary to be told the bed is no longer available.
- if he’s currently in a skilled nursing facility, his chart is showing he needs that level of care...... he’s getting & needing “skilled”. AL is not that & AL cannot readmit him unless he can clearly show to totally be able to do his ADLs with very minimal assistance.
He would need to have a needs assessment done & it shows in detail he’s ok on ADLs. The needs assessment usually done by a RN & SW duo - the current place will know of an independent firm who does these. In my experience it’s rare for elderly to go from a SNF to AL. Younger in their 50’s & 60’s who are stroke or accident victims might can do enough rehab in a SNF to transition back to AL, IL or even return to their home.
- AL cannot hold a unoccupied room or a bed indefinitely UNLESS its being paid for. If he’s been private pay & he can continue to pay the AL & the Rehab/NH at the same time, the AL will gladly take the $ & upkeep his vacant room.
But I'm guessing that is not within your BIL financial ability. If so, then whatever the terms of his AL admissions paperwork will state what happens to the room due to a vacancy. You or your SIL do have the admissions contract, right?
This isn't just an issue for AL. NH have this issue as well. It’s referred to as a “bed hold”. Usually it’s a 72 Hr hold that’s placed on a Medicare & Medicaid bed in a NH. (It can be actually closer to 90 hrs if the place wants to make it that cause they want the resident back). Observation status at a hospital or ER can’t run more than 72 hrs..... they have to be either admitted to the hospital or discharged from “observation” by then. If they are on LTC NH Medicaid, Medicaid will pay the daily room & board charge for 3 days so the NH can & will put a “bed hold” on their space as $ still coming in.
But if looking like gonna be a week or 2,, then in my experience it really is going to be interdependent on the elders & your relationship with the facility on “bed holds”. If they are a easy care resident, pay their bill or copay on time, have a good SS monthly income, family is helpful, and the place has several other empty beds, well in that scenario, they can extend the bed hold. Family will need to private pay as Medicaid will not be paying. The $$$ amount kinda depends, it could be daily private pay rate, the reduced Medicaid daily room & board reimbursement rate or whatever you can quietly negotiate with the NH. The “devil that you know is better than the one you do not know” comes into play......
As long as rent was being paid, I don't see the problem. Was ur Dads surgery such that they don't feel they can give him proper care? Call your State Ombudsman and ask about this. The facility has to provide you the info.