My mom spent half of November 2017 and all of December 2017 away from her assisted living apartment either in the hospital or in a rehab facility. I paid rent in full for both of those months. She passed away on December 22. I'm an only child and not only was I dealing with her somewhat unexpected death, I also was attempting to not ruin Christmas for my kids. I contacted the facility and told them with the holidays, I wasn't able to get her stuff out by the end of the month but I made arrangements to have everything out by January 6. I was told that I'd have to pay rent for half of January since the contract states that's the case. I pled my case. They were not sympathetic. Let's recap. She passed away, we pretended to have Christmas, we had services for her, I had to clean out her apartment which consisted of me hiring movers, going through all of her things (again), donating some stuff, having some items sent to a warehouse for an estate sale, etc. So, there was a lot to do, in the middle of the holidays. The director at the assisted living place insisted that this is not a unique situation and felt no compassion. I pointed out that because she wasn't there an entire month and a half using services, months that I paid for with no argument, they clearly are coming out ahead in the situation. I moved her things out, they sent a bill for half of January. I delayed payment because I had many other medical bills to pay from her estate. Finally, I sent them about half, indicating that was the best I could do at that time. Here it is seven months later and they've sent a reminder that there's still a balance due. ($1100) There is money in the estate to pay it. Mom would not want me to pay it and I think they are being jerks. So, this week I sent them a letter saying I would not be sending any more payments to this account and asked them to forgive the debt. Of course, legally I'm wrong. Morally I feel right and clearly I'm too emotionally involved. As I'm typing this I know everyone is going to say that it needs to be paid, pay it and move on. Please offer constructive feedback if you have any.
However, if the facility was reserving the room for her return and her possessions were still in that room awaiting her return, the estate will likely be responsible for the bill.
Did you ask them to hold her place in the room with the expectation that your mother's health would improve and she would return?
If you did not ask for them to reserve the space, then perhaps that will make a difference, depending on what the contract states.
Best of luck.
The contract will be settled by her estate. The executor is obligated to pay all the debts with the deceased estate.
Be it a car loan, a credit card, a nursing home bill....the bill is due and payable by the estate.
The lawyers will come after the estate for the payment.
But, the cost in high blood pressure will be paid by only you
In Business Law 101, the professor said "The principle of the thing is very expensive." $1100 is a lot of money but the stress you will have dealing with this over the coming months is going to cost you something, too...much more valuable than money.
Put this unpleasantness behind you and let yourself grieve your loss of your mom.
The OP's ALF could not relet her room until it had been cleared. Whereas in your mother's INF, there was literally nothing to stop the managers tidily boxing up her belongings and going right ahead with the next placement - so the financial loss was entirely preventable by them.
How are you handling this?
Lawyer have no case on mom because again, contract terminate on death.
No debt against estate because again, Contract terminate by death.
- if you personally did NOT sign off to be financially responsible for your mom’s admissions contract then it’s not your debt
- it is a debt of your mom’s estate, so
- if, IF, probate is opened to settle her estate then the AL bill becomes a claim or debt of her estate and has to be filed properly by the AL or its corporate owner. It’s not just that bill they sent you that the AL can use, but has to be formatted correctly and with whatever attachments needed as per probate rules and within a set time frame.
And the AL bill, like whatever else debts your mom died owing, if done properly for a claim goes onto the giant maw of your mom’s probate docket and has to go by whatever probate rules & laws for assets of & claims against the estate. The executor does not have to open probate manana..... its whatever your state laws require. Like for TX, it has to be opened within 4 years from DOD and can stay open till almost forever. So they start mailing collections letters & calls for payment, yada, yada..... you send them a certified letter that you anticipate probate will be opened for the Estate of Jane Smith Jones as per state requirements. It’s up to them to file and to scan the legal notices to know when it’s opened. If your nice, you can send them a certified of the NOC (notice to creditors) whenever that gets published in 6 months or 2 years....
How debts get paid also depends on your states laws. If yours is a Level of Claim by Class system, then unsecured debts are way way lower priority than executor costs, legal fees, court costs and any secured debt. The AL, nH, know this and know the likelihood of getting paid is iffy and will costs them legal fees to get even filed much less paid whether payment ever happens unless they are part of a huge group of ALs or NHs that have staff attorneys or a dedicated in house collections unit up at corporate HQ. $1100.oo is pretty low amount to deal with, they won’t bother imho. And that is why they’re heavy on you now as it’s the window of opportunity to ever get paid.
Now $11,000.oo that’s a figure that you file for.
Mind you, another springs to mind. A similarly dissatisfied customer with no choice about dealing with them changed his name by deed poll to Mr Yorkshirewaterarecompletebastards.
I had always taken care of spending down my mom’s overages. A few weeks before she died, the staff took it upon themselves to purchase clothing for her from a company who brought clothing in and set up a pop-up store. They did ask me and I agreed, but they spent over $200 on those clothes and I never saw any of them. She never wore them and I never saw any receipts. Was it wrong? Of course. Did I have any recourse after she died a few weeks later? Nope. It all boils down to you can’t fight “city hall”. They will shut you down at every turn.
and toilet her. That is what I was given credit for. If they did any of this for Mom, they didn't have to after she was in the facility. My Moms care alone was $2000 a month.
Fortunately, the assisted facility where Mom is now living, rent is paid a month ahead, must give 30 days if moving to another facility unless it is for medical reasons. If a resident passes or moved due to medical issues; the rent is prorated for the period of time resident was under their care. ONLY if you are moving for personal reasons i.e. my step-sister wants to take her father back to MI with her, she'll have to give 30 day notice or she loses her $4400. She will have to pay the next month's rent if she does not provide the 30 day notice even if she moves him out on the last day of the current month.
Read the fine print on your contract. You may need to consider hiring an attorney, BUT make sure the attorney knows what he/she is talking about....just because an attorney has a shingle stating Elderly Law, they may not have had to deal in depth in this area.
Example: I was in Court 7-2-18 and I had to correct step-sister's attorney, Fiduciary AND Judge regarding many of the State Laws of community property and bank accounts.....I was a banker for 35+ years most of it back home in AZ. Judge over ruled step-sister's attorney about step-father's personal items still inside MOM's house (sole/separate) and froze the 1 and only true joint account with an investment firm. I think he did that (I had already done that) because I told him my step-sister could keep the money she "stole" from Mom's primary owner account (most definitely different than joint account...banking 101) which she placed in a Trust as well as the money she transferred to the joint account she has with daddy to make it appear that she paid for the 1st month rent out of that account.
Don't screw around with a banker who has worked customer research and statement issues!!! I have such a major paper trail on step-sister!
Sorry TMI, but the point is....read, Google State law, check with Elderly abuse for financial gain department at the Court.....
You are looking for sympathy but they will not offer it to you. Assisted Living is just that - they are not there to offer condolences and sympathy. They are there and need to collect what is owed.
I am sorry for your loss - but you are barking up the wrong tree here and you even know it.
When my Dad passed near the end of the month, I only had the remainder of the month to remove everything from his room. If I needed more time, I would have needed to pay for the next full month. So I rushed to get everything out of his room, it wasn't easy but being a former "landlord" myself, I understood this is a business.
When a room becomes empty, there is a lot of behind the scenes work that needs to be done for that apartment. Usually the rug is removed and a new rug is installed. The room is painted. sometimes new mini-blinds need to be installed. Any repairs need to be done. There are usually scrapes and scratches on the door frames. The the paperwork logistics of closing the previous tenant's account, and opening up a new account for new tenant.
In this instance, unfortunately, the facility is in their right. When your mom passed, the contract should have terminated. You paid for all of Dec, which meant you had until Dec 31 to remove her stuff, otherwise, they could legally charge you as long as her stuff was in the room. Even though u mentioned 2 empty rooms, they still could not rent out the room your mom was in until her stuff was gone. Sure it would be a nice gesture to forgive this cost, considering the circumstances, which they might just do. Otherwise they are in their right to want to be paid for the room still being unavailable in Jan. Your only course of action may be to pay them so you can be finally done with them making sure to get everything in writing. I'm sorry for the loss of your mom.
But...consider. They will hand this over to the lawyer that deals with all their unpaid bills. Now, the bill goes up by several hundred dollars as legal fees are layered on top. Still not paid...the lawyers files in court against the estate. More legal fees. Court finds for the NH...because the contract says they are entitled to the payment...moral or not. So, now there is interest on all that. Finally, the settlement is made with the probate court....more legal fees. The bill ends up being $5,000 or more by the time they are finished....and it does get paid.
There is also the cost to your nervous system.
even if you didn't argue the point at the time, if your mom was not required to pay for meals and housekeeping during a hospital stay I.e., she was just required to pay a bed hold fee, then total the amounts overpaid as a credit against the $1,100 with details explaining the amounts in a letter and send a check for any remaining balance
When mom was in hospital and rehab for a month, her facility still sent an invoice for incontinance care - I called and they agreed to reverse the charge
Oh, just had a thought. Did they wave her care fees after she was in the hospital? It was in Moms contract that fees for care would not be charged after the person was in a hospital or rehab after a certain number of days? Mom was credited for it. If so, they owe you.