Follow
Share

My dad lost his home because he forgot to make his house payments, and because he spent thousands a month on Amazon. He's diabetic and ended up in skilled nursing facility after two surgeries. He has undiagnosed dementia (mid stage). I had no clue how bad it would be and I was a caregiver professionally for 18 yrs. I also did not realize I don't have the right to place him into memory care (which he can afford). Everything triggers him, I mean everything. I ask him what he wants for dinner, I make it and then he gets very angry and says he doesn't want it. He won't let me give him insulin when he's mad and gets mad because I'm controlling his diet. That's not the worst of it. He sleeps maybe 2 or 3 hrs at a time. I'm beyond exhausted. He woke up the other night at 3:30, we are in the same space and he's litterly up 24/7. He turned on the lamp, I asked him to turn it off he wouldn't so I did. I'm agitated already and he turns it back on. I go to unplug it and he kicked me in the stomach. I landed hard on the tile floor on my back. I have serious back problems and I've had surgery. I'm bruised up. He's constantly starting in on me won't stop so then I'm mad. I ask him to stop give me some space he won't. The Dr is no help, she's only treating his diabetes. I told her about the sundowning, the anger, the throwing things at me, the calling me a piece of sh*t and other things. I have his medical directive and am allowed to make medical decisions. She says ok, I'll send him for a brain scan. He lost it saying he isnt crazy and he won't do the scan. I explained no you're not crazy, it's to see if there's anything medically going on. Long story short she tells him ok if you don't want to, you don't have to. I just shook my head and said what about the medical directive? She seems to think he can make his own decisions. Clearly he can't. He was spending so much money on Amazon that I took his debit card and said if you want something, I'll order it for you. We are staying with my son and I was trying to save to get us out. I couldn't, so I ended the spending. I'm not depriving him if he needs something, I buy it. I make sure his bills are paid. That's another thing he didnt pay, his phone bill for three months. I was unaware it was shut off so I had it turned back on he said it was on automatic payment which it was but he kept spending the money before anything got paid. He's a hoarder I'm not living that way. He also started hoarding (another reason I stopped the spending). He's addicted to shopping and gets a rush over opening those boxes. I meet all of his needs, I do everything for him, he wants for nothing. My dad left when I was a kid. He didn't care if I was alive or dead for more than 40 yrs until he needed me. I put that in the past and brought him with me. Now I'm very sleep deprived and sick of him starting in on me everyday. I have to worry about the violence, while I try to find a new Dr. so I can have him deemed unable to make his own decisions. If the adult child can't take care of their parent properly and they need to be placed for their own well being, then why can't it happen? I found him a nice place, expensive because he's insulin dependent, I can't put him there. I shouldn't have to be legally responsible when it's this bad. When he has his calm moments everything is fine, but they aren't very often. In home care isn't the answer, no one would last long. This is probably a bad comparison but he was legally responsible for me and took off. There was no system that cared. I'm the child but I bring him home and now I'm legally responsible? He can't make decisions and yet I'm not allowed to? I don't know what to do.

You owe this absent father nothing . Next time he is sundowning bad you call 911. tell them he’s violent , they will take him away . Don’t mention dementia or sundowning to EMS or they may not take him . Tell them he’s not himself and he may have a UTI , or pneumonia and he’s diabetic.

Then when he is at the hospital , you tell them that there is no one to take care of him . And you do not go pick him up from the hospital . The social worker will say you have to take him home but you don’t . You say it’s an “ unsafe discharge “. Use those words . You tell them no one will be home . Tell them you work even if you don’t .

Let him become a ward of the state and let the social worker in the hospital figure out where to put him .

Frankly , I don’t understand why you took him in to begin with . He didn’t care what happened to you for 40 years .

Get out from under this . Once Dad is out of the house , RUN to a lawyer and give up POA.
Helpful Answer (13)
Reply to waytomisery
Report

I 100% agree with what waytomisery wrote to you.

There's a solution, you just need to accept it as the "least bad" option. Caregiving cannot be onerous to the caregiver or they will burnout and suffer. Guaranteed. This is now you.

Call 911 and do whatever it takes for them to take him away. Don't retrieve him. Make sure no one else retrieves him. Just because you're a medical representative doesn't mean hands-on caregiving. It means making decisions and management. Hands-on caregiving is a different, separate decision that you are not obligated to do, and cannot be assumed to do.
Helpful Answer (2)
Reply to Geaton777
Report

For kindiness, perceived obligation or other reasons you brought Dad to your home.
Dad's care needs are too high, too bursonsome.

Is that the gist of it?

It sounds like you have aligned your thoughts aleady - that Dad needs 24/7 supporred care. (MC, Skilled Nursing, whatever is the right fit).

There will be no need for future guilt.. oh I wish I could have taken him home.. Nope. Your experience will wipe that.

Many people seem to get twisted up with the legal stuff, laws, medical directives & mental competancy. Maybe I am a am too simplistic, but push all those aside for now.

Q. Can Dad look after himself? Is he fully independant?

If so, sit him down, look him in the eye & advise him he needs to move out.

However, if he is NOT fully independant. If he is DEPENDANT on you then YOU get a say.

Dad may have the right to SAY he won't move into a care facility BUT he has ZERO right to make you his caregiver. Zero right to insist you provide his housing, pay his bills or provide caregiving tasks.

YOU have your universal human rights of freedom. Never forget this.

Taking Dad in was a CHOICE.
NEW choices can be made.
Helpful Answer (4)
Reply to Beatty
Report
Beatty Aug 3, 2024
PS I had skimmed & missed the violent incident. So have re-commented.
(0)
Report
This is just about the doctor. She is working for HIM, not for you – quite genuinely, he is her patient, not you. You can’t expect her to go against what he says, that’s not her job. You MUST get him out of the house, and refuse to let him back in.
Helpful Answer (3)
Reply to MargaretMcKen
Report
Kimberlyayn Aug 3, 2024
I completely understand I'm not the patient. He's not capable of making his own decisions. If he refused to let the Dr prescribe insulin because he didn't want it, and the Dr said ok that's your decision, and I wanted to be able to say go ahead I'd like to think that I would be allowed to make that decision. I do see where your coming from. When it's becoming to much because his health is at risk. My safety is at risk. I'm not allowed to make the decision to place him even though being in memory care is best for him. I'm not equipped to handle violence. If it happens once it will likely happen again. I wasn't seriously injured but I easily could of been, especially falling on my back I have hardware in my spine. I cant allow it to happen again. Thank you for the response
(1)
Report
See 1 more reply
".. he can't make decisions and I'm not allowed to.."

My thought is to rephrase this idea. From "I'm not allowed to.." (decide for Dad) to;

I AM ALLOWED to speak up for myself & my needs.

You have the right to be SAFE in your home. Aggression & violence is not ok. It may be triggered by the diabetes not being controlled as best it should? No matter the cause, it is not ok.

If you are unsafe or in danger - call emergency services for immediate help. Ask that he be removed from your home for medical assessment & diabetes control investigation.

Then do not bring him back to your home.
Helpful Answer (8)
Reply to Beatty
Report

Here is yet another poster that had an a** hole of dad for years, and still is an a** hole, and yet has chosen to try and help him out.
My question is WHY??? Why in the world would you put yourself and your son in this position, when you both deserve so much better?
It boggles my mind how many children that were abused in any way by their parents still choose to try and care for them as they age. How's that working for you so far Kimberlyayn?
You are allowing this mentally ill, psychotic man to physically, mentally and verbally abuse you, and again I must ask you WHY???
Do you not realize that you deserve SO much better?
PLEASE stop this craziness! The next time he raises his voice at you or hits you, call 911 and have the police take him to the ER. Tell them that you are not safe around him.
And once at the ER, tell the hospital social worker that your dad CANNOT return back living with you as you DO NOT feel safe and that he is an "unsafe discharge."
The social worker will then have to find placement for your dad, even though they will lie to you about all that they can do for you if you were to take him back. So you'll have to stand your ground and say NO, he CANNOT return.
They will then find the appropriate facility for him.
And then you need to stay away from him for your own mental health's sake and get on with living and enjoying your life, as you owe your dad NOTHING. Period. End of sentence.
Helpful Answer (11)
Reply to funkygrandma59
Report

The next time he gets violent ..you call 911. You tell them that you are afraid for your safety. (he dies not have to hit you any threat or act of violence is enough to call 911)
He gets transported to the hospital where you can say that he can not be discharged back home as YOU are unsafe.
YOU are not responsible for him.
If it is determined that he is not cognizant the hospital will have to get permission from a judge to treat him.
Do not accept responsibility for any decisions.
Helpful Answer (5)
Reply to Grandma1954
Report

I can see how these scenarios happen . Part of Fear Obligation Guilt is that others , family, doctors , etc say “help has dementia “ and “he’s ill “ so you must help him. Once with dementia , they seem to forget the a**hole part. But it’s still there along with the dementia .
Helpful Answer (3)
Reply to strugglinson
Report
waytomisery Aug 3, 2024
Normally I would agree, but 40 years is a long time to have your parent be gone and then show up because he needed help .

There were two choices here when Dad came back .

1) “ Sorry Bob ( or whatever his name is ) but I’m not available just like you weren’t available to care for me when I was a kid . “ . I wouldn’t even call this sperm donor Dad .

2) Put it in the past as OP did , most likely looking for the father she never had , looking for a relationship , love, approval .
But as often happens , these a**holes don’t change.

Option one would have been the route to take .
(6)
Report
You cannot earn love from a life-long d-bag. It's already been proven to you. You will wear yourself out, ruin your own life and then in the end the d-bag will still be an ingrate plus have contempt for you. Run way from him. Seek therapy so you can identify and defend strong healthy boundaries for yourself that you can apply not only to this d-bag but to others that you will surely come across in your life.
Helpful Answer (6)
Reply to Geaton777
Report
strugglinson Aug 3, 2024
Yup
(2)
Report
The next time he hits you, you call the police. Have them take him to the ER. I think you need to tell them he has undiagnosed Dementia and he is getting violent. This way they know what they are working with. He needs to be declared incompetent so he can get help. Like said, you refuse to take him home and allow the State to take over his care.

You have Medical POA. This needs a doctor saying he is incompetent to be invoked. Its Financial POA that you need to place him in care. He needs a Neurologist, not a PCP.
Helpful Answer (3)
Reply to JoAnn29
Report

You do not say if you are POA or not. I am surprised your son has taken you, his mother, into his home along with this troubled and troublesome grandfather; I never would have suggested he do so.

Your father is not diagnosed. JoAnn is absolutely correct in how to GET him diagnosed. You report the next assault to APS after transporting/getting him transported to the ER. You do not accept him back into the home until a diagnosis is done. You get him placed from the ER with a temporary guardianship Social Services at the hospital can help you to get.

I would not, myself, care for or have much to do with an abusive parent. That person would be on his own. I don't put much stock in blood connection which is purely an accident of biology. You will have to make decisions for yourself. I suggest, once your father is place, that you move out of your son's home and live your own life. You can see what a burden these connections can be.
Helpful Answer (4)
Reply to AlvaDeer
Report

The system doesn't have to change. You do.

You've accepted responsibility for a person for whom you have no legal responsibility. He is physically violent toward you, and by staying, you are risking that it'll happen again. And believe me, it will. How much is too much violence? If he pushes you, is that too much? If he hits you, is that too much? If he knocks you down and kicks you, is that where you draw the line? How about if he shoots you with a gun?

The correct answer to the question is that ANY violence, even a little push, is too much because it lets them know you will tolerate violent behavior. The next time they go a bit further. Then more and more. THE FIRST INCIDENT IS THE BEGINNING OF WHAT THEY WILL DO NEXT. And do not think the worst won't happen to you.

Video or take pictures of his behavior. Call the police. Go somewhere that he can't find you, block him on your phone, and forget that he exists before you end up dead.

Sorry, OP. You need to stop thinking that you can help this sorry loser. Put yourself first and be safe.
Helpful Answer (8)
Reply to Fawnby
Report

Call 911 and then run for your life.

Stop letting this dirtbag abuse you. No Doctor will put up with him either. Let this ABUSER find his own way and yell and kick at someone else.

Any Judge will give you a restraining order. The next incident could be your own death, This looser is not worth that.

PLEASE LISTEN TO THE WISE ADVICE GIVEN. He has you brainwashed, you must get him out of your life FOREVER.
Helpful Answer (4)
Reply to Dawn88
Report

Terrible situation. So sorry. Was he always abusive? If not then he is likely suffering from an undiagnosed medical condition. In this case, you cannot in good conscience leave him, but you need to get him the help he needs. If calling 911, is the only way that you can get him to an emergency room to get a thorough exam and referral you need to do it. There may be medicines that he can take or other courses of action may be suggested.
Helpful Answer (2)
Reply to MikeinTexas
Report
MikeinTexas Aug 3, 2024
I should have included that you might find help from your city or county Adult Protective Services. They may have some other options. Good Luck.
(1)
Report
See 1 more reply
Mike, this doesn’t make sense. Even if he is “suffering from an undiagnosed medical condition”, it does NOT mean that “you cannot in good conscience leave him”. People do NOT suddenly deserve lots of love, care and help (or even a little bit of it) just because they are ill. They should have planned for old age, even more than everyone else, if they have alienated their potential helpers.
Helpful Answer (3)
Reply to MargaretMcKen
Report
MikeinTexas Aug 5, 2024
Abuse must stop! Agree that 911 or local Council on Aging are best places to get help. Did not read that he has always been abusive. If he was, then she should run away. If this is a recent situation, then a good diagnosis may provide other options.
(0)
Report
Why do you still try to love this evil sperm donor? Don’t say “because it’s my dad”.

He isn’t. Never was. Never will be.

Stop trying. Your son is learning that it’s okay to abuse women. Because he sees you take the emotional and physical beatings and you stick around for more.

You CAN in good conscience leave him. He had no problem leaving you.
Helpful Answer (8)
Reply to LoopyLoo
Report
Southernwaver Aug 4, 2024
Exactly this. She is modeling for her son that women are doormats, property of men and meant to be abused.
(1)
Report
He's violent. You cannot care for him. Get him out of the house by calling APS. End of situation. Do not wait for him to be violent again because you might be dead then.
Helpful Answer (3)
Reply to ArtistDaughter
Report

He was in a nursing home? Meaning SubAcute Rehab? And still no Dementia diagnosis? I agree with waytomisery, you owe him nothing. So, as hard as you may find it to do, because perhaps you will feel like a bad person, walk away.
Helpful Answer (1)
Reply to mommabeans
Report
Geaton777 Aug 4, 2024
I don't think that ERs, rehabs, etc. do dementia testing/diagnosing. This seems to be the purvue to primary physicians, psychologists, and neurologists. This is why it is so tricky to get uncooperative elders tested.
(1)
Report
Next time, call the cops, have him arrested for assault and have him Baker acted. Done and done.

You can get him admitted on a psych hold for the abuse, then you start saying, and never stop, that you can no longer care for him. He is an unsafe discharge and a danger to you. He has no place to go. Unless of course you are enjoying the life you have created for yourself by laying down to be his scratching post, this situation is in your hands completely.

By the way, you are not responsible for him, no matter what kind of dad he was.

Get him out of the house, if not for yourself, then for your son and his family.
Helpful Answer (5)
Reply to Isthisrealyreal
Report
Kimberlyayn Aug 7, 2024
I'm not a martyr, I don't need sympathy.

I don't have Daddy issues. I don't need his approval or love. I'm very aware I owe him nothing

Got it! I'm the problem!

My 38 yr old grown son is NOT being caused mental health issues!!! but I guess a bunch of strangers would know that and say I dont care!! He knows I'm not a doormat. Because he's in the same field of work I am it was his suggestion we stay with him. Neither one of us knew it would go south.

Yes he was in skilled nursing without a diagnosis. Those places don't diagnosis. He was there after two surgeries from diabetes.

A primary physician HAS to refer to a neurologist for diagnosis, so yes they are needed.

No he was never abusive in the past.

I did NOT take this on out of love, or the need to be loved. I did it out of empthay for another human being. My bad I thought with my experience I could help Not knowing how bad it would become. I have been doing this with him for a short amount of time.

I know I owe him nothing, I did not do this out of obligation. No I'm not doing it because he's my Dad. We are linked biologically doesn't go beyond that!
Yes I have durable Poa and advanced medical directive.

He will be going to my primary who knows I need him medicated and diagnosed. I was told I can't place him against his will. My Dr is aware of what I need done, my point in this is to have him deemed incompetent. Are there any other undiagnosed issues don't know his last Dr decided to do nothing more than treat his diabetes. Which I have gotten under control for the most part. It is very tricky getting someone who is not cooperative.

Now I know there are more opitions that I wasn't aware of I did see the advice also bunch of people coming at me, with a lot of judgment, and criticism. I guess some see that as ok!

Got all of it. System doesn't need to change I do, I'm the problem. I caused this. There was never abuse in the past I'm supposed to be a mind reader and know this would happen.
(0)
Report
See 1 more reply
@Geaton777 They certainly WILL. If they do not have that dx in the patient record, but the patient is showing signs, they WILL evaluate the patient, either with a neurologist or a Gerontologist to make a basic dx of dementia. In most nursing homes, the Physicians are NOT Primary physicians, but Gerontologists. At the very least, they will have some experience and knowledge in Dementia and be able to refer a patient, which A SubAcute Unit WILL do, IF they are doing their job thoroughly and effectively. A dx of dementia absolutely effects the patient's outcome under their care while Hospitalized or in patient SubAcute or Long Term Care so they are VERY unlikely to just say, "I'll bet that guy has dementia. Oh well, he's here for a broken leg. Not my job." That's LITERALLY NOT how physician care in SubAcute/LTC's work. At all. In fact, I would go as far as to say that doctors and NPs on staff (or contracted) in a SubAcute or LTC facility are Diagnosticians. If they aren't, then I will need them to stop asking me to draw so much Diagnostic bloodwork on these patients if they aren't trying to dx them with anything but Just fix or treat/sustain whatever known dx they had when they were admitted.
Helpful Answer (1)
Reply to mommabeans
Report
Geaton777 Aug 8, 2024
Mommabeans, per the OP's own words in a response below:

"Yes he was in skilled nursing without a diagnosis. Those places don't diagnosis. He was there after two surgeries from diabetes. A primary physician HAS to refer to a neurologist for diagnosis..."

Everything you wrote is just your opinion or wishful thinking unless you're saying that your LO was actually given a cognitive exam in an ER, Urgent Care, rehab facility, etc. by a primary physician, neurologist, gerontologist or psychologist. A doc who is none of the above will not do that testing and diagnosis. Neither will an orthopedist in a rehab facility. There are too many other variables and factors that can affect the outcome of a cognitive/memory test while in those types of facilities. I've been on this forum since 2019, reading it up and down every single day since then and I've not once come across anyone's post who said their LO was diagnosed in an ER or rehab facility. Not sure why the angry tone from you...
(1)
Report
If you can get him to the ER at some point like has been suggested , and you say he can not be cared for at home anymore . They will test him for dementia in the hospital if UTI , pneumonia whatever is ruled out . But you have to be firm and not take him home . They will try to send him home with you and tell you to follow up with primary doc and to do cog testing at neurologist . Do not take him home . Tell them he gets violent , you are not safe . This is called an “ ER dump “ and is what a lot of people have to do to get a parent placed unfortunately even if they aren’t violent but they are just too difficult to handle . My mother wouldn’t eat anything other than cookies , shower , or change her clothes , she was living home alone unsafely .

This is how my mother ended up getting placed . I could not get my mother to go for cognitive testing . One day she was saying she had chest pains , so she went to the ER to rule out a heart attack , which turned out to be anxiety . But I had been working with a social worker already from the County Area of Aging . She helped me by talking to the hospital social worker and getting them to test Mom and she got dementia diagnosed and placed from the hospital to an assisted living I had already picked out . Mom never went home again . I had ambulette take her from the hospital to AL because I knew if I tried to take her myself , she would have refused to get out of the car.
Helpful Answer (3)
Reply to waytomisery
Report
Beatty Aug 8, 2024
"Be ready to roll.."
That's what the Social Worker told me to do.

You did it Way!! You had worked behind the scenes, knew the way, chosen the resting place. The day arrived.
(2)
Report
See 3 more replies
No-one has a crystal ball. I sure don't (wish I DID sometimes).

K, you stepped in to help your Dad. It blew up, blew out, became dangerous.

How could you know this? (That could be a whole discussion thread right there..)

I guess to sum up, folk here are advising you to stand up for yourself. To be safe.

I think you can change this. Learning how 'the system' works will help, but you don't need to be a diagnosing medico or lawyer.

Drawing a line between what you WILL do (yourself) & what you WON'T. When to seek help from others.
Helpful Answer (0)
Reply to Beatty
Report
Kimberlyayn Aug 8, 2024
I see the advice I'm taking it to heart. I came here because I didn't know what to do.

There were people saying things that were completely un called for. I'll take any advice given. Telling me I'm causing my son mental illness and I don't care. Saying I'm the problem it's my fault. Grown adults criticizing and judging. What makes anyone think that's ok. It's NOT OK. I would never say that to anyone.

I do need to know how the system works. That's why I'm here because for the most part I don't.
I'm being told I'm seeking some kind of approval or love from this man. Far from it. I don't need or want it. We are biologically connected that's it.

I saw him as a human being I had empathy and took this on. I now know it was a huge mistake.
My safety comes first. He doesn't.

I was told by a referral agency that found, him a good place I was comfortable putting him in that I can't place him against his will. A dr needs to put in writting hes not competent. Thats another route I was trying to take. Again i didnt know there are other ways. When I was working with the agency he wasnt being violent

I did not know I could take him to the er and have him put on a hold then say I'm not taking him back into my care, until yesterday I was unaware of what a er dump is. That's advice I needed.

I said no he was never abusive because he wasn't when I was a kid. Was he when he walked away I highly doubt it. I spoke to his second wife a couple of times and from those conversations looking back on it the take away for me was she would walk if that were to happen. Do I know for sure no. He never raised his voice was not emotionally or physically a vilolent person when he was a part of my life.
He was in skilled nursing for two months with a wound vac and PT afterwards. The only Dr that was treating him was a ortho. I spoke multiple times to the social worker who said they can't diagnosis. There were to many variables in play to get it done I completely agree with that. He stopped eating wouldn't drink fluids I was called and told about it. I asked can you put him on a IV of fluids no we don't do that here. They were asking if he should be sent to the hospital. We'll yeah. That's when the second surgery occurred. They called me said he was to confused to make that decision so I made it.

I was a caregiver professionally for 18 yrs when I cared for deminetia patients they were diagnosed and properly medicated I never had anyone become violent. Now I'm on the other side of it not knowing completely how the system works.

I have no problem placing him and walking away. I have no real attachment to him other than I'm caring for him.

I'm not here to be bashed it's absolutely ridiculous that complete strangers are saying it's my fault it's on me I'm abusing my son by doing this and I don't care. Act like the grown ups that you are!!!!!

I was here hoping people who have had similar experiences could give me advice. I did get some sound advice. I appericate it

Unless I dump him at the hospital. He does have to have a primary refer him to a specialist that's how insurance works.
(0)
Report
See 1 more reply
Consult with a competent and caring Elder Law Attorney. With that said, it seems to me you should apply for emergency guardianship, with either you or the state as the guardian if you don't want to be the guardian. The guardian can then compel him to go to a long-term care facility that meets the needs of his condition. I assume from the fact that he lost his house and spent a lot of money on frivolous stuff that his assets and income are low enough to qualify for Medicaid and hopefully your state's Medicaid program will pay for the appropriate long-term care (LTC) facility.

Placing him in the LTC will most likely be a better place for him because he will have staff available 24/7, there are socialization opportunities and it will be a safe environment for him. It also relieves you from being an under-resourced caregiver and frees you up to be a daughter, if you so desire.

Sometimes the financial department of the LTC can handle the Medicaid application and approval process. However, it's usually better to have an elder law attorney handle it in case there are issues that are outside the scope of the financial office of the LTC.

The LTC can suspend payment until the Medicaid application is approved. Once approved, Medicaid will pay the LTC retroactively for the period of time it took to get him approved.

I'm sorry about your situation and hope you work out a solution that improves his quality of life while making your caregiving journey easier.
Helpful Answer (2)
Reply to dhalpern
Report

Ask a Question
Subscribe to
Our Newsletter