My mom died a while back and probate has been prolonged. My sister is the executor because I live abroad. My sister has continued to use Mom’s checking and savings accounts and her credit card for anything to do with looking after the estate as it was our understanding that the executor could do this. She was already doing this as Mom's POA anyway because Mom had some dementia and had lost some of her executive functions. And my sister’s name is on the checking and savings account anyway.
Now we have hit a problem with a dispute for a credit card payment and realised only Mom’s name is on that account. The bank obviously doesn’t want to do anything without speaking to Mom. We’ve realised that my sister had not informed them that Mom had died because she was worried that they would freeze the accounts even with her name on them. Our probate lawyer had agreed with this. Now we are not sure if we have done all this correctly.
We can’t ask the probate lawyer because he seems to have dropped out of the picture and isn’t responding to messages. We aren’t sure what happened but he hasn’t followed through with helping us through probate and still hasn’t even charged for what he has done already. We are looking for another probate lawyer but it takes time.
So in the meantime I’m asking all you wise people who’ve been through dealing with the after effects of someone dying. What do you think? Is my sister allowed to continue using Mom’s card for dealing with her estate? And does she need to inform the bank that Mom has died? And is the bank allowed to freeze the accounts?
Your post reminded me of something an engineer for whom I once worked told me: he chooses his battles carefully, and doesn't waste time with ones that aren't winnable.
Best wishes to you and your family moving forward!
All her SS, retirement etc all were stopped and any overpayments have been paid back. Using these accounts has been specifically for maintenance of Moms properties and assets until everything could be finalised. And using the credit card is like GardenArtist says, it keep everything accountable. Everything has been slowed down by the lawyer being slow, my sister living out of town and having such a demanding job and me living out of the country.
Again I do NOT have ANY concerns about my sister taking advantage of her position. She is my twin and I trust her completely. Both of us thought her name was on the credit card as well.
But we have had some advice now and it looks like we are nearing the end of the situation anyway. We’ve decided to just pay the business we are having a dispute with, leave them with honest reviews online and move on. Just don’t have the time to fight it. Then we can deal with the credit card company separately and get everything sorted out. Finally.
Thank you all for your help and support.
I’m reading here that a checking account will be frozen if SS has to get back its money for a month in which a person dies. What if someone else is on the account, as well?
First, I’m asking for when my mother dies. I am on her checking account.
Second, how about if my husband passes away? Would SS freeze our joint account? How then, are household bills paid?
My husband is only 60 now, but the caregiving part of my Mom’s situation case came on suddenly. I want to be prepared for OUR future, as well.
But I can see that if the accounts weren't all held with the same bank, there definitely would be concern until some assurance were provided.
You Sis sounds hinky to me. Find out if she has court authority to use these funds.
I have some concerns about using a card for someone who's died w/o informing the credit card holder. Your sister should contact the card holder and ask specifically how to insure that she can continue to use it. Don't ask "if", but rather "how".
There may be some issues with adding the Executrix a/k/a Personal Representative designation to a card. Banks may not issue to an entity, but will issue to a person. I ran into that when I tried to retitle my sister's vehicle; the MI Secretary of State refused to retitle to an entity as opposed to a person, so I had to retitle the vehicle in my name.
A similar issue arose with insurance policies; I had to retitle in the name of the Trustees, as agents said an insurance company won't insure an "entity".
If your sister held bank accounts jointly, w/ survivorship rights, with your mother, she should be able to continue using them, but she definitely should have informed the bank so they're aware of the situation.
I would spend some quiet time assembling all the facts, death certs, etc., then create questions to ask both the card holder and the bank, phrased in the sense of (a) what, if anything, is required to ensure that your sister can still use the accounts, and (b) HOW to ensure that those accounts remain available to your sister during any transition of ownership and titling. If you have a bank with knowledgable staff, they should be able to help.
As to the dispute, I would approach the holder again as "HOW" do we correct the situation so that the card can be used, or should a new card be issued? If you continue to phrase the issues as "how to correct/change", you or your sister are establishing a position of wanting to correct the issues, and advising the card holder that's your intent.
If the card holder refuses to consider the charges viable b/c the card was issued in your mother's name only, then I would not let them off the hook, but rather ask again "HOW" the situation can be changed (so that you don't have to turn to a different card holder (hint, hint...find a solution or we'll have to take our business elsewhere).
When I ran into problems of a business not wanting to do something, I found that approaching it as I've described above (the "how" method) worked much better, as it established a cooperative approach on our side, and seemed to let them know I wasn't there to battle with them (even if privately I might have considered it.)
If your sister is on an account, that's different. The account can remain open, but she can't sign Mom's name or anything like that because your sister is the sole owner of the account now.
This is not only for my benefit, but for the benefit of the other heir, even though I keep spreadsheets of the charges (which could be challenged by a contentious, suspicious heir.)
It sounds as though the communication has broken down in the family, and I think you may not be in possession of all of the facts in the case. For your Sister to continue to use your deceased Mother's credit card (unless she is on the account, and as POA she likely was) would be fraudulent; I doubt you are accusing your Sister of fraud? But I am uncertain of what you ARE feeling about her.
Banks are often in possession of all the facts in a death as well; often accounts that received Social Security are frozen if a month's SS needs to be recovered.
I really suggest someone in the family open communication with the Sister in order to ascertain where things stand. Do understand that Banks, etc. will not communicate with family, but only with the POA and the Executor.
Your Sister, as Executor of the Estate will need to file in probate court; this is a public document in the county itself.
Your question involves "bills of the estate". Those bills are owed by the estate, and the executor also can collect fees for acting in this capacity, as well.
CC's were shut down immediately. Banking continued but ONLY the executor could spend any money from dad's accounts.
Even though FIL'S estate was relatively small (under $900,000) DH was still completely transparent in his dealings.
We had zero financial issues. FIL's atty gave DH a 1/2 hr 'tutorial' so he'd know what to do.
You can straighten this out--and remember this as a cautionary tale.
Good Luck unsnarling this.