Are you sure you want to exit? Your progress will be lost.
Who are you caring for?
Which best describes their mobility?
How well are they maintaining their hygiene?
How are they managing their medications?
Does their living environment pose any safety concerns?
Fall risks, spoiled food, or other threats to wellbeing
Are they experiencing any memory loss?
Which best describes your loved one's social life?
Acknowledgment of Disclosures and Authorization
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington. Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services. APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid. We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour. APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment. You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints. Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights. APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.I agree that: A.I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information"). B.APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink. C.APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site. D.If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records. E.This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year. F.You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
✔
I acknowledge and authorize
✔
I consent to the collection of my consumer health data.*
✔
I consent to the sharing of my consumer health data with qualified home care agencies.*
*If I am consenting on behalf of someone else, I have the proper authorization to do so. By clicking Get My Results, you agree to our Privacy Policy. You also consent to receive calls and texts, which may be autodialed, from us and our customer communities. Your consent is not a condition to using our service. Please visit our Terms of Use. for information about our privacy practices.
Mostly Independent
Your loved one may not require home care or assisted living services at this time. However, continue to monitor their condition for changes and consider occasional in-home care services for help as needed.
Remember, this assessment is not a substitute for professional advice.
Share a few details and we will match you to trusted home care in your area:
Patient's partner refuses to believe that he shouldn't sleep in the same bed even though she wets the bed every night. What risk is he taking to his own health?
Abri Form diapers are heavy duty... What about 2 twin XL beds, pushed together, and perhaps it may help, the transferring of fluids? Not sure...
And I am one spouse who cannot stand the sound of snoring of my spouse, and vs... so it's hard to get back into sinc.. and thats not even mentioning the pets who snore.. and decide where they want to sleep... geez,,, Good Heavens and Goodnight!
I’m sure lots of people can benefit from knowing where to buy special items or clothing for special needs.
Certain catalogs are great. My uncle and my mom ordered a gadget to help button their clothing due to the loss of motor skills with their Parkinson’s. It is devastating to see the deterioration of being able to control one’s body. That little thing for buttons works pretty well.
The utensils to eat with for Parkinson’s patients wasn’t as useful. But anything that makes life easier is worth getting.
You are very kind to come forward and help out this family in their time of need. Not everyone would be so generous in caring for others.
You are also wonderful to ask for help to care for them and extremely wise to recognize that this is an unsanitary situation to be in.
I hope your dilemma will be resolved soon and that they will be able to rest peacefully and have the appropriate hygienic atmosphere.
The caregivers or any other helpers can be at peace knowing all of you are doing your very best to keep them safe and comfortable. It’s so heartbreaking to see dementia or any illness progress to this level.
Please visit this forum anytime and we will do our best to help you.
Take care, be safe and stay well during these challenging days. 💗.
I like your ‘I Love Lucy’ set up idea. He’s still in the same room so he might be comforted by that. He is protected from her unsanitary habits and she can see him.
Does she hug him like a teddy bear? Do you think a body pillow to hold onto would help? Not the same, I know but I would not like seeing him contaminated by her bodily waste.
Does he want to sleep with her? Or is it that he wants her to be safe? Big difference emotionally. I can’t ever imagine someone wanting to be sleeping in an unsanitary environment and find that comforting. That’s just disgusting and gross. I agree with Lealonnie. He could become ill from her feces.
How practical is it for you as the caregiver to keep her away from him?
Several things to consider here. Good luck to all of you.
I think making sure that she is changed on a regular basis and making sure that she can't get her hands in it are far better than taking away the comfort they share by sleeping in the same bed.
There are ways to avoid this being an issue, as the caregiver it is up to you to do it or to request a 2nd caregiver for the night shift. They depend on you to ensure that they are protected and safe. If that is no longer possible in the home it is time to look at the care plan.
So first I am not a paid live in caregiver. I am a family friend that has stepped up to help because no one in the family can or will. The goal is to keep her home as long as we can. I am available to help overnight but he is the primary caregiver from bedtime to morning. I am in the next room if needed. During the day I check her underpants every hour. More if she has been drinking a lot. Are you suggesting I should wake her up during the night? I am not opposed to the idea but wouldn't that be disturbing and make for a rough nights sleep for them both? I had no idea that they made onesies for adults. I think that very well may help solve this issue.
Additionally, during the stay at home orders during the Covid-19 pandemic, experts are advising to sleep separately if: 🔹One has Covid, and use separate bathrooms if possible. 🔹One has gone out, been exposed to Covid, and/or could bring Covid home to the ill person.
Ways infectious diseases spread: Germs can spread through: the air as small droplets (droplet spread) or tiny aerosol particles (airborne spread)
contact with faeces (poo) and then with the mouth (faeco-oral spread) contact with the skin or mucus membranes (the thin moist lining of many parts of the body such as the nose, mouth, throat and genitals) (contact spread) blood or other body fluids (for example, urine, saliva, breastmilk, semen and vaginal secretions). Germs can spread: directly from person to person or indirectly from an infected person to the environment (for example toys, door handles, bench tops, bedding and toilets) and then to another person who comes in contact with the contaminated environmental source.
I presented the teddy bear idea but he wasn't too keen on that. He didn't know there was such a thing as the pressure alarm and is thinking about it. He doesn't like the twin bed bit though. He keeps saying it's for her but I'm thinking maybe it's because he isn't ready. The poo isn't a daily thing at this point but I do worry. I am going to look into the onesies to be sure.
"The woman" has multiple sclerosis but as far as I can see otherwise is a consenting adult. Nobody can "put her" anywhere, or force her to wear anything, or deny her the right to sleep with her boyfriend assuming that he too is a consenting adult.
But nobody has to sleep with her if he doesn't want to, either. It is equally up to him to decide if he wants to or not. I doubt if any of the parties really needs it explained to them that sleeping with poo smears on your pillow is not ideal for your health.
Women's overnight continence pads can hold about 1 litre of water. A typical woman's bladder can hold up to about 600mls (but you'd be crossing your legs and hopping). If the bed is sodden through every night, and if there are unexplained faeces or soiling or stains around, then something *else* is going wrong besides MS.
She doesn't have ms I am from Mississippi and the state abbreviation is MS. Sorry ,I didn't consider that it could give the wrong idea. She has dementia. And is nonverbal but she does seem to sleep better with him there. I say "partner " but it's more like a life size teddy bear , it seems to be a comfort thing. That and worrying about her getting out of bed in the night are his biggest reasons for staying in there. I suggested maybe an I Love Lucy set up but......
Okay, the OP just said she rubs feces around. Gross! No one should sleep with her.
At first, the post wasn’t clear on how bad it was so I thought maybe it wasn’t as bad as it is. You know, damp sheets from urine just on her side. Then sheets could be changed daily.
Maybe twin beds would help. Or separate bedrooms if possible.
OK there is a HUGE difference between urinary and fecal incontinence especially if she is putting her hands in it - that is definitely not acceptable.
As for putting a pad inside a brief - I don't know why so many people keep doing it and recommending it because as Joanne mentioned it is not helpful, it is in fact the opposite of helpful. It would be much better and possibly cheaper in the long run to invest in more absorbent briefs (abena, molicare, attends, tranquility, prevail) making sure they fit snugly around the legs where most leaks occur. She should also be wearing a one piece anti strip jumpsuit so she can't get her hands down there.
Uh, you are talking about this woman rubbing FECES on the pillows and yes, that is dangerous and unhealthy for BOTH of these people to be sleeping in such a situation. Why on earth would her partner want to sleep in such a situation, unless he is suffering from dementia and is clueless about what's going on and also has no sense of smell?
It's common sense that exposure to feces is not only dangerous, but classified as a biohazard: Human feces are classified as a biohazard. What this means is that unprotected contact with human feces exposes a person to the risk of being infected by viruses, bacteria, protozoa, and worms.
The woman needs to be put to bed wearing adult briefs along with a 'doubler pad' and dressed in an Alzheimer's 'onesie' garment which is not removable.
Put these chucks under her body so if urine leaks out during the night, you can simply dispose of the chucks in the morning. The feces will be contained within the onesie garment which she will be unable to remove.
Make sure to address this situation immediately and prevent either of them from getting seriously ill.
I have never understood a pad inside a Depends. Pads have plastic on the underside that keeps liquid from coming thru. So how is there double protection? (I didn't have this problem)
I hope that mattress itself has been covered in a water proof sack. Urine cannot be removed once its seeped thru from the padding inside the bed. And the smell! He must not be able to smell. Really, why would anyone want to sleep in that situation. But if he wants to....
The pad absorbs way better than the Depends and is wider than regular underpants. Funny you said that about his sense of smell. He had his nose broken many years ago and never had it set properly thus losing his sense of smell. His main concern is that she got up in the middle of the night about 5 years ago and collapsed in the bathroom floor. End result was a pacemaker. He is afraid he won't hear her if she gets up. We do have double protection on the mattress and I change the sheets daily.
Is the mattress covered with proper protection? Are they waking up drenched or are they sleeping on a damp bed? Is the patient wearing a diaper to bed?
Place the proper protection on the bed. Is there another reason that they shouldn’t be sleeping together? If not, why is it a concern for you or them?
If she is incontinent then she should be wearing a brief and covering her side of the bed with a washable bed pad so that should contain 90% of the urine if not all. If he isn't uncomfortable then I can't see any reason to separate them. (I hope the entire mattress is also protected?) I have to ask - Is this really about concern for his health or is it that you are uncomfortable finding them in bed together?
I think it may be a bit of both. I am worried about him getting sick. She does on occasion rub pooh on the bedclothes including his pillow while he is sleeping. If there's no real reason for me to worry then I will have to sort out my own issue with it.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
And I am one spouse who cannot stand the sound of snoring of my spouse, and vs... so it's hard to get back into sinc.. and thats not even mentioning the pets who snore.. and decide where they want to sleep... geez,,,
Good Heavens and Goodnight!
I’m sure lots of people can benefit from knowing where to buy special items or clothing for special needs.
Certain catalogs are great. My uncle and my mom ordered a gadget to help button their clothing due to the loss of motor skills with their Parkinson’s. It is devastating to see the deterioration of being able to control one’s body. That little thing for buttons works pretty well.
The utensils to eat with for Parkinson’s patients wasn’t as useful. But anything that makes life easier is worth getting.
Geeeez, I guess Amazon sells everything nowadays!
Fantastic idea about the anti strip suit. Practical and sanitary. It’s a win, win all around. Certainly better than sleeping in waste.
With special night clothes they could sleep together! Genius idea...now with changing her at night when needed and this, they can sleep.
Where do they sell those? I know that there are clothing catalogs with special clothing for the elderly. Anything that helps is great!
You are very kind to come forward and help out this family in their time of need. Not everyone would be so generous in caring for others.
You are also wonderful to ask for help to care for them and extremely wise to recognize that this is an unsanitary situation to be in.
I hope your dilemma will be resolved soon and that they will be able to rest peacefully and have the appropriate hygienic atmosphere.
The caregivers or any other helpers can be at peace knowing all of you are doing your very best to keep them safe and comfortable. It’s so heartbreaking to see dementia or any illness progress to this level.
Please visit this forum anytime and we will do our best to help you.
Take care, be safe and stay well during these challenging days. 💗.
I like your ‘I Love Lucy’ set up idea. He’s still in the same room so he might be comforted by that. He is protected from her unsanitary habits and she can see him.
Does she hug him like a teddy bear? Do you think a body pillow to hold onto would help? Not the same, I know but I would not like seeing him contaminated by her bodily waste.
Does he want to sleep with her? Or is it that he wants her to be safe? Big difference emotionally. I can’t ever imagine someone wanting to be sleeping in an unsanitary environment and find that comforting. That’s just disgusting and gross. I agree with Lealonnie. He could become ill from her feces.
How practical is it for you as the caregiver to keep her away from him?
Several things to consider here. Good luck to all of you.
Caregivers have no right to decide certain things. That's why they have a live in caregiver, so they are not separated.
If someone told me that I had to separate my parents instead of doing something that stops the issue I would tell them to jog on.
This is about their quality of life and if the caregiver can't deal then they need another caregiver.
Quality over quantity every time.
He obviously has mental decline to believe that a fall caused the need for a pace maker.
There are ways to avoid this being an issue, as the caregiver it is up to you to do it or to request a 2nd caregiver for the night shift. They depend on you to ensure that they are protected and safe. If that is no longer possible in the home it is time to look at the care plan.
During the day I check her underpants every hour. More if she has been drinking a lot. Are you suggesting I should wake her up during the night? I am not opposed to the idea but wouldn't that be disturbing and make for a rough nights sleep for them both?
I had no idea that they made onesies for adults. I think that very well may help solve this issue.
Additionally, during the stay at home orders during the Covid-19
pandemic, experts are advising to sleep separately if:
🔹One has Covid, and use separate bathrooms if possible.
🔹One has gone out, been exposed to Covid, and/or could bring Covid home to the ill person.
Ways infectious diseases spread:
Germs can spread through:
the air as small droplets (droplet spread) or tiny aerosol particles (airborne spread)
contact with faeces (poo) and then with the mouth (faeco-oral spread)
contact with the skin or mucus membranes (the thin moist lining of many parts of the body such as the nose, mouth, throat and genitals) (contact spread)
blood or other body fluids (for example, urine, saliva, breastmilk, semen and vaginal secretions).
Germs can spread:
directly from person to person or indirectly from an infected person to the environment (for example toys, door handles, bench tops, bedding and toilets) and then to another person who comes in contact with the contaminated environmental source.
Um, not being funny, but what about a (washable!) teddy bear, and a mattress pressure alarm, and twin beds?
The poo isn't a daily thing at this point but I do worry. I am going to look into the onesies to be sure.
Thank you so much. You have been very helpful.
But nobody has to sleep with her if he doesn't want to, either. It is equally up to him to decide if he wants to or not. I doubt if any of the parties really needs it explained to them that sleeping with poo smears on your pillow is not ideal for your health.
Women's overnight continence pads can hold about 1 litre of water. A typical woman's bladder can hold up to about 600mls (but you'd be crossing your legs and hopping). If the bed is sodden through every night, and if there are unexplained faeces or soiling or stains around, then something *else* is going wrong besides MS.
She has dementia. And is nonverbal but she does seem to sleep better with him there. I say "partner " but it's more like a life size teddy bear , it seems to be a comfort thing. That and worrying about her getting out of bed in the night are his biggest reasons for staying in there. I suggested maybe an I Love Lucy set up but......
At first, the post wasn’t clear on how bad it was so I thought maybe it wasn’t as bad as it is. You know, damp sheets from urine just on her side. Then sheets could be changed daily.
Maybe twin beds would help. Or separate bedrooms if possible.
As for putting a pad inside a brief - I don't know why so many people keep doing it and recommending it because as Joanne mentioned it is not helpful, it is in fact the opposite of helpful. It would be much better and possibly cheaper in the long run to invest in more absorbent briefs (abena, molicare, attends, tranquility, prevail) making sure they fit snugly around the legs where most leaks occur. She should also be wearing a one piece anti strip jumpsuit so she can't get her hands down there.
It's common sense that exposure to feces is not only dangerous, but classified as a biohazard: Human feces are classified as a biohazard. What this means is that unprotected contact with human feces exposes a person to the risk of being infected by viruses, bacteria, protozoa, and worms.
The woman needs to be put to bed wearing adult briefs along with a 'doubler pad' and dressed in an Alzheimer's 'onesie' garment which is not removable.
https://www.amazon.com/Talit-Inc-Womens-Alzheimers-Clothing/dp/B07Q1JY6R8/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2P55F8PYD3XCY&dchild=1&keywords=alzheimers+onesie&qid=1586449282&sprefix=alzheimers+onesie%2Caps%2C193&sr=8-1
You can buy excellent disposable chucks at
https://www.amazon.com/Medline-Extrasorbs-Drypad-Underpads-Permeable/dp/B07GYZNDY8/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=20M53PIEXHJEM&dchild=1&keywords=medline+chucks+pads+disposable&qid=1586449374&sprefix=medline+chuck%2Caps%2C258&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyS0cxVlVXWlhETjFNJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMDc2NDA4MVhKTUNYNkQ2WEREMSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNDY3MTgzMlhNU0lXQUI0RFdRNyZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=
Put these chucks under her body so if urine leaks out during the night, you can simply dispose of the chucks in the morning. The feces will be contained within the onesie garment which she will be unable to remove.
Make sure to address this situation immediately and prevent either of them from getting seriously ill.
Best of luck
I hope that mattress itself has been covered in a water proof sack. Urine cannot be removed once its seeped thru from the padding inside the bed. And the smell! He must not be able to smell. Really, why would anyone want to sleep in that situation. But if he wants to....
Funny you said that about his sense of smell. He had his nose broken many years ago and never had it set properly thus losing his sense of smell. His main concern is that she got up in the middle of the night about 5 years ago and collapsed in the bathroom floor. End result was a pacemaker. He is afraid he won't hear her if she gets up.
We do have double protection on the mattress and I change the sheets daily.
If so, and the issue is causing friction... that must be very difficult, I'm sorry to hear of it.
What continence aids is she using?
Place the proper protection on the bed. Is there another reason that they shouldn’t be sleeping together? If not, why is it a concern for you or them?
How does the patient feel about it?
I have to ask - Is this really about concern for his health or is it that you are uncomfortable finding them in bed together?
If there's no real reason for me to worry then I will have to sort out my own issue with it.