Is my brother taking advantage of my mother?

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Is my brother taking advantage of my mother?

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I am mid 50s, with a brother that’s 52. My younger brother has been taking fairly large sums of money from my 84 year old mother for the past several years. I found out about this on a sheet of paper that she felt compelled to show me last year on how much money she gives to family members, and for him there have been several distributions in the last four years amounting to tens of thousands of dollars. I was flabbergasted and didn’t say much about it at the time.

I’ve had no idea this was going on, and mom has enough money that she can do this easily without feeling a pinch, but I don’t feel that makes it right for him to take money from her whenever something in his life isn’t exactly right and he wants to spend money on non-essential goods and services. He is employed, has a family and no issues with normal living expenses, so I feel he is using her as a savings and loan with no intention of paying it back.

He lives in the same hometown as her and I live out of state, so maybe she feels she needs to compensate him in some manner for helping her out, but it is a big sum of money that’s changing hands. I’m not really sure what to think at this point, we converse frequently and I’m sure it would be hugely awkward to bring this up in conversation. Any advice?

Elder Abuse Financial Planning Relationships

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Does your mom have dementia?

You will get different kinds of replies, depending on your answer to that question.

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Yes it will be awkward but it sounds like it needs to be done. Ask you mother if she knows why he is needing this money, there may be a legitimate reason you don't know about. Equally he may be gambling and she is paying off his debts. Discuss with her what she would want to do about carrying on these payments if she became incapable and broach the idea of you having a POA for this circumstance so that her wishes can be carried out, but you get to discuss money more openly with her now. It may be legit it maybe he is pulling the wool over her eyes or she is doing something she feels best but which isn't in the long run - either way there is no getting round simply being up front, going to see her and expressing your desire to ensure she is looked after in future. What you don't want is her giving single POA to your brother so as a compromise joint POA where both have to agree might be easier to get her to agree to - after all its all irrelevant if she is compos mentis and she makes her own decisions. I think this is one you have to have ideas on but play by ear when you have the actual conversation.

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You know, to me, thebquestion is, is mom with drawing and gifting these monies in order to reduce her RMD's?

You really need to ask her if she was advised to do this. There might be abgood reason.

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It might be worth asking mother if she intended the money to be loans or gifts. My own mother ‘lent’ money to my younger sister, and never asked for it back again. However Mum was a good businesswoman and documented it, and there was no argument about it being a gift. When she died, the ‘repayment’ of the loans would have meant that younger sister got nothing from the small estate.

My older sister and I decided to split the money in 3 and put younger sister’s ‘share’ into a trust a/c. A few years later she was in a position to buy a house, and we produced the money for the deposit that made it all work. That worked well for us.

Mother may not have intended to ask for the money back, but may not have expected it to be a gift that wasn’t offered to the other children. Perhaps just have a talk to her about it.

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If your mother is of sound mind, which I presume she is since she's keeping a paper on how much money she gives family members, then she's entitled to give her money to whomever she pleases. Why, I wonder, is she feeling compelled to show you this paper? I'd ask her the "why" questions before asking your brother and see what she has to say. I'd venture to guess your brother helps her out with a LOT of things and she's paying him for his time, rather than helping him pay off gambling debts! But who knows. Seems to me your mother was trying to open up a conversation with you when showed you that paper.

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You have a right to be concerned. Hopefully your mom will not need to apply for Medicaid...you mentioned she did have enough money so she wouldn't feel the pinch. But large bank accounts have been drained by family members . Just say in IF in the event she would ever need Medicaid..most states would look back 5 years to see if any large sums were taken from her accounts. They would see this as a gift to the sibling. So let's just say she gave him $500000 in the period of the 5 yr look back. If the monthly cost of the nursing home was $10,000. The penalty period would be $500,000 ÷ $10,000 =50 months she would be penalized. Meaning someone would need to take care of her for over 4 years before she would be accepted on Medicaid. I would want to know why he needs the money ..he has a job. Yes sure ..if he is helping her it's reasonable to pay him for his services. But receipts would be needed if there is a Medicaid issue. Older people lose their ability to rationalize. They are easily scammed to give money away to strangers and yes to family members also. She will need that money for her care if she ever needs care...and most elderly people will need it.

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You've made some good points here. However, I'll add that elderly people may also be thinking that they "can't take it with them".

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How does your brother help your mother out? I got paid for helping my mother out, as my 3 out-of-state brothers were not involved. My mother refused to pay me, but when a POA brother took over her finances, he saw to it that I was paid. I kept track of my hours, and an hourly rate ($20) was agreed upon. There was no formal caregiver agreement needed, since my mother would have never been eligible for Medicaid.

BUT is this the case with your mother? If there is not a formal caregiver agreement in place (consult w/an elder attorney), then there could be trouble if your mother ever has to apply for Medicaid. Your brother could walk away from helping at that point. Would you be willing to step in and move your mother in with you to take care of her? We see this sort of situation on this forum -- because of messy finances, the elder doesn't qualify for Medicaid because of a penalty period, and then someone ends up being the 24/7/365 caregiver (usually not the one who was given money/assets over the years).

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Your mother is at least in control of her finances to the extent that she herself is keeping records and feels free to disclose the information if she wants to. No suggestion there of the dear old poppet losing her marbles, so that's point #1.

Your mother is well off enough to be able to give your brother this money without feeling the pinch. If that's likely to remain the case, you need have no concerns about her financial welfare - so that's point #2.

Why, did your mother "feel compelled" to show you this piece of paper? What compelled her?

Unless your mother was asking for your advice and/or your opinion, you'd better hold your tongue. Gifts your mother chooses to make and can reliably afford to make are none of your business. Your brother's moral framework - at least until it crosses certain bounds - is none of your business. Unless you need to apply the information your mother disclosed to you to any practical purpose, you might do better to act as though she never did that.

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Countrymouse,

The mother made it the poster's business because she showed him all of the records. He didn't go snooping around her records and didn't insist she show him. She did it herself.
You are right about him holding his tongue though. I hope he doesn't play into what certainly looks to me like some passive/aggressive senior instigating. Best to not say anything.
The mom can give her money away all she wants. If the time comes when she needs help the poster should ignore her completely. Let the other brother take care of her. He's already been paid to.

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The responses so far address the topic from a variety of perspectives, I won't add to them now. It would be helpful to have additional info from Gary in the form of answered questions which may vary responses.

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I bet your brother is doing a lot to help your mom… you on the other hand are not … don’t question your mother .. it’s none of your business
how she wants to spend her money.
too many older children who are MIA are concerned about their inheritance….

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Boy does that sound like my situation.
The only help they are is helping themselves to her money

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DO you honestly believe 24/7 care is cheap and your brother is just going to do it for free when he has his own expenses? A nursing home costs an average of $85,000 to $90,000 a YEAR -- and if you put her in a nursing home, not only is it crappy care, Medicaid will liquidate her assets. A person on Medicaid is only allowed like $2,000 in their banking account maximum.

However, if you mum needs to go to a nursing home, Medicaid WILL evaluate the spending over the last FIVE years due to look-back laws. This requires an Eldercare Attorney for estate planning and establishing POA, wills, and trust.

If you are not happy with your brother caring for your mum, I suggest you take over and do it yourself.

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Medicaid doesn't "liquidate" assets. It will deny coverage if assets are above 2k, which means self-pay if care is needed until the assets are depleted. Even then, if her income is over the paltry Medicaid limit, and/or she doesn't meet the requirements for NH care, then Medicaid isn't going to provide coverage.

Nowhere is it indicated that mom requires 24/7 care. There isn't really any indication of ANY care being provided at all. We don't have the information needed to make any blanket statements. OP may not have the information needed either.

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Your mother was compelled to show you for a reason, and since she’s clearly of sound mind ask her why she showed you and if the money giveaway is bothering her. A person of sound mind can do whatever they please with their money, but it sounds like maybe mom doesn’t like something about what’s going on. I have a sibling who used my dad financially for many years, and it definitely bothered my dad even though he didn’t ever deny the sibling. Dad knew he was both being used and propping up someone irresponsible with money. He also kept records, and fully knew he wouldn’t get the money back. I had to accept his choices in this, but also was told regularly how much this bothered him

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Daughterof1930,

It sounds to me more like GaryPI's mom and your father were instigating some trouble between siblings. If a person doesn't want to give money, they don't. Never indulge someone's passive-aggressive nonsense by doing their dirty work or them. If the mom or your dad had a problem with giving the money, it's up to them to put a stop to it.

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GaryPI,

You say in your profile that your mother still lives independently in her own place. There's no mention of her having dementia and not being able to look after herself. So she's still competent to handle her own affairs and make her own decisions.
There was no need to show you how much money she's given your brother over the last few years. It sounds to me like mom might just be enjoying a bit of indulgence in a favorite pastime of many elderly people. Instigating. Where I come from we call it starting sh*t, which is exactly what it is.
Please have a sit-down with your brother and without heat or accusations of taking advantage or stealing, just talk to him about it.
In all likelihood your brother who lives nearby and who helps out displeased her in some way. Maybe he had to say 'no' to one of her requests or demands. So she's instigating a fight by showing you the records of how much money she's given out to him, even though as you've said, she can more than afford to. I'm sure your brother never hears the end of it from her either about it.
Please talk to your brother without your mother present. Listen to his side and what he has to say before making accusations about him taking advantage.

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He is taking advantage of your mother. Take her to a lawyer in her hometown. It may be time for her to give you power of attorney over her finances and probably her medical care as well. She may enjoy living in her hometown, but it may be wiser to move her closer to you, or in with you.

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Is your brother caring for your mom in any way? Does he do work around her house on a regular basis? Is your mom incapacitated in any way? If your mom needed to move into some sort of LTC facility, would she have enough funds to private pay for the next 5 years so that none of her "gift giving" would matter? Have you asked your brother why he is taking large amounts of money from mom? More information would be helpful.

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"More information would be helpful."

A LOT more information would be useful. Without being privy to what's going on, OP and we can't really make any call on this. What is mom's current medical and cognitive condition? What help does bro provide, if any? Why would mom feel "compelled" to show you what she's handed out? Did she say any of it was for help bro provides? Does mom have all legal documents in order? How often does OP see/interact with mom? SO much more info is needed.

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I would have a conversation with mom. One thought did she show you this piece of paper because she is proud of how much money she saved & wants you to know that. It's hard only knowing part of conversations. It's her money she can do as she pleases. But you can also suggest mom do a promissory note for brother to sign if it happens again. Talk with brother see what he has to say. It's difficult when it comes to money & family.

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My inlaws did this with my SIL, except my wife and I were the caregivers. The gifts annoyed us at first, especially since SIL lives in ridiculously expensive southern Cal, but we are not needy and we love her sister.
Sometimes we have to help out our children. As others have said, it is her money, although it is sometimes hard not to think about an inheritance in that situation.
If your brother is taking care of your mother, tens of thousands may very well be worth it. Taking care of my mother cost me my health in retirement. It also cost me money, as paying things such as her insurance was easier than fighting about it. Elder care can be devastating for the caregiver, even under different roofs.
I would suggest approaching brother in a positive manner if you feel the need. Instead of asking if he is taking money, tell him you have seen the records and ask if he is being fairly compensated for his efforts. You can judge for yourself if he is being evasive or relieved about the conversation.
Becoming POA is more of a burden than an honor, and once it is triggered you had better be ready to become an on-call caregiver 24/7 if you cannot share the responsibility with your brother.

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"...once it is triggered you had better be ready to become an on-call caregiver 24/7..."

For the record, accepting and taking on the role of POA does NOT mean one has to become the care-giver. In some instances, if there are no relatives or trusted people to appoint, people do appoint attorneys to be their POAs. Do you think anyone unrelated, esp attorneys, would agree to be a POA if it meant having to take on the care of the person?

POAs a legal ways to manage someone's finances, sign paperwork, interact with medical care, etc when the person is no longer capable. It does NOT mean one steps in to provide care. THAT is up to each person and whether or not they wish to take on that role.

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If you mother had no apparent hidden agenda in showing you this paper, it’s easy enough to let her know about the Medicaid look back period if there is the actual potential for exhausting her income or resources. In that case, your advise would be to monetize the support your brother is giving your mother, assign a reasonable rate, and apply the rate to the gifts or debts retroactively. This won’t get you out of trouble with Medicaid if and when you apply, but it will provide a rational basis for the funds transfers they may accept if the value of the transfers is less than the total value of the care given based on the rate and hours of care.. Let your brother know you are aware of the gifts or loans and also explain to him how the look back and the lack of a personal services contract could affect her ability to obtain state funded care. Then pay him for the care he is providing going forward via a personal services contract. This should put an end to your concern and establish some fairness about his contribution to your mother’s care. If your mother is flush and unlikely to ever need state funded care, then your concern may actually be about favoritism, jealousy or what you may be hoping for from her estate. In either case, paying your brother for the time he spends on your mother’s care will probably end the handouts and give you some perspective on how much more he may be doing for her than you are. As others have mentioned, it’s usually those who give the least who have little or no concept of how much time and energy local relatives give to aging parents. I’ve seen post after post on this forum in which distant siblings want a local sibling to provide unlimited care to a parent without expecting any financial support or caregiving from siblings who live even relatively short distances away.

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Since your mother raised the topic and seems somewhat transparent and lucid, ask her how your brother assists, why she gave him money, if its meant as a gift or a loan, if she wants it to be legally documented and repaid at some point (maybe once the estate is disbursed), if she expects him to need addl funds, if she expects he will be more involved in her care going forward, etc. Not certain who is POA, but someone other than your brother should have access to and insights into where her money is going. I agree with other posters that sometimes parents can downplay how much assistance they require and get, so its possible she may not be completely truthful in this respect, but I believe it's pretty rare for a child to downplay how much they contribute, so I think you would be aware if your brother was helping in a material way that very beneficial and warranted payment. I have a brother that resides in our elderly mothers home because of his issues and not her needs. He is in no way a care giver to her or do we ever expect him to be. He is gainfully employed, but has borrowed/been gifted money from our mother. He does not make any financial contributions (no rent, not bill or grocery payments), barely assists with chores or errands, has no sweat equity in the home, does not take any accountability for her health or the house; he is there when he is not at work or out with friends. He provides company when it suits him, and while she maintains she does not want him there, she is concerned about his ability to be on his own and convinced he will be evicted from an apartment, hence she enables him because its easier for her. She is very open book about how she has helped asstd children over the years -- if fact too open book -- and told other children about the money she gave him, and as long as she is of sound mind its her house and her money and she can make whatever bad choices she wants, however, knowing how little he helps and how her actions are driven by unwarranted guilt, her other children have strongly suggested she not provide him any more funds especially since he has disposable income which he choses to spend in a manner which does not allow him to pay her rent or assist in any way financially and because he is not providing any physical or emotional assistance which warrants payments. At one point when this all started she was going to appoint him co_POA and I refused to sign the papers and another sibling was appointed in his place. We have not raised this issue with our brother because he is extremely defensive and unreasonable and none of us speak with him that often. Find out what you can from your mother, give her guidance as you see fit, ensure someone with good intentions is her POA and approach your brother if you feel comfortable and its warranted.

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"Not certain who is POA, but someone other than your brother should have access to and insights into where her money is going."

Unless she has signed a general POA allowing someone access now, a POA would be of no use unless she were not competent. I understand the concept, but POAs are not put in place to monitor assets until the appropriate time.

It would be nice to have that information if OP wanted to be sure mom isn't being sweet talked out of her assets, but unless she is willing to discuss her finances further or she hits some criteria where the POA takes effect, it's no one's business but hers. If there is additional proof or evidence that bro is taking money but not providing any service to mom, then sure, have a chat with her to be sure this is really what she wants. Otherwise, not much anyone can do.

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When she has the money there is nothing wrong with paying him. Depending on the situation he may be spending a lot of time helping her at the expense of spending time with his family.

It is better than the opposite, I do all the work and get no pay, the others do nothing but leech off her every month.

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GaryPI: Your mother "has enough money" right now, but perhaps she will require those large chunks of change that she is giving to your brother for her own care at a future point. Since she was the one to initiate the convo, perhaps you should ask her why she is giving so much away to a son who is gainfully employed.

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Well, it's your mom's money and she can do what she wants with it.

Maybe she's keeping Tract and showed you so whenever something happens to her. Before the inheritance is divided equally, she wants the money already given to count toward their inheritance.

Nothing wrong with talking to her about it.

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Look up the word Hedonism, and see if your brother fits the bill

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Excuse me for saying this- but it sounds like your brother is an a******.
He is taking money that is NOT his. He didn’t earn it, and he is absolutely taking advantage.
It also doesn’t matter if she doesn’t feel the pinch of not having it. It’s a jerk move and I don’t know how you haven’t said anything to him directly.
Ask your mom how she really feels. She must have an opinion if she showed you this paper. Feel her out and go from there.

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Yes, he is taking advantage.

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Eerie this post came up, but from experiencing this, YES. He is taking advantage of her.

My late mom same as yours, with a son almost the same age as your brother, but a year younger did the same.

Without going into a lot of detail or making a very long post, she helped him with cars, apartments, furniture, and tickets.

Even when she was trying to get better he asked for and got money. In the end, he passed before her, because of the lifestyle he led he did not listen to his body and had a heart attack

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Is my brother taking advantage of my mother?

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