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You need to take this document to an attorney for the answer. The attorney will look at the entire document to let you know. NORMALLY a GOOD POA is written so that the POA who is "The Attorney in fact" can sell any real property in order to retain said funds to pay for the care of the person he or she is representing.
It isn't a good idea to post short portions of legal documents to a social media site and ask for guidance as you may get wrong answers when you cannot AFFORD to be wrong.
Very sound advice. Thank you. You are wise advising the whole document needs to be read to fully understand its meaning.. But it’s the strangest thing. There is no further context or clarification for this one line that was inserted in the POA document. It sits on its own. Just a one simple line towards the end. 🤷♀️
. The attorney-in-fact is the person granted power of attorney, but the part about transferring everything to them sounds like weird wording. Your dad probably means that control of all his assets is now in the hands of the POA, i.e. they can sell assets, pay his bills, etc.
HOWEVER, that person is charged with doing those things solely for the benefit of your dad, not for themselves.
Yes, get with an attorney licensed in the state where your dad now lives/resides -- especially if you do not live in the same State -- as each State law can be slightly different!
Get with an attorney who specializes in Wills, Trusts and Estates and/or Elder care law if there are also other things that may need planning out such as qualification for Medicaid long term nursing home (NH) coverage. If Medicaid NH might be needed, the cost of said attorney should be paid from your father's assets as part of a spend down process. The attorney who drafted/excuted the POA is a place to start. Depending on his age and situation (is he blind? for example, but other things may come into play) there may be a way to structure certain Trusts to protect assets (for him, for his care).
Hopefully he has a Will and/or a Trust too, as that could define who potentially would receive any of his property or other assets after he passes, if there are assets left to pass down. It often can take a full year or 18 months once someone passes to fully "close their estate," dispense any assets to be given out and to pay final taxes.
The POA instead is intended to give a person (maybe more than one) power to act as if they are the person -- while that person is living -- to do things such as sell assets, transfer assets as others have said FOR THE BENEFIT OF that person. In most instances this would be the potential liquidation of their assets (property of any sort, retirement accounts, banking accounts, car anything of value) to pay for their care. That could be for home health aides, for assistive living, for nursing home care and a myriad of other things for them that they need. A POA has a legal fiduciary duty do this, act on behalf of the person for THEIR BENEFIT and CARE. You would need to keep all records -- have receipts -- for any transactions.
I am a POA for my mom, and I only use a debit card for anything she needs so there are clear receipts for what her funds are spend on. Do NOT use cash! Any and all assets (IRA funds as an example) were withdrawn in total to pay for her care and I have copies of all correspondence and letters with the IRA account entity affirming where the funds when so there is no question of how those funds were spent if there are any legal questions later by the "tax man," our State, or Medicaid (she is in a nursing home now with dementia and Medicaid had to take over coverage once she was fully spent down, ALL assets spent).
Once the person passes, the POA no longer is in force. At death, the POA ceases to "exist" as a legal document and then the Will takes over thereafter. Depending on who is named as the "Executor" in the Will (you or someone else?) that person then takes over on handling the funeral, burial and those expenses and, then, the closing of the Estate.
Both a POA and a Will are really needed. Perhaps a Trust too if there are lots of assets or a Special Needs Trust if allowable (depends on the circumstances) to keep some assets out of the Estate and potentially out of Probate.
Lots here, get with an attorney to help with this.
Nope my brother never agreed to pay for care. BUT with some wise thinking and input from others, i figured out how to be compensated. Since my POA brother was only willing to pay “professionals” to care for my dad, I went to the agency that provides my dad’s caregivers, and asked to be hired. They agreed, trained me (I knew more about my dad’s care needs than them -lol), and I earned the appropriate certifications. Now I get paid. My brother called the agency and tried to convince them not to put me on payroll. They said I was an outstanding employee and had no reason. I still put in far many more hours helping my dad than what I get paid for, and that’s fine. Just nice to be compensated when there is a no show for a shift.
I purchased one of my parents' properties when I was the guardian of one and the other's POA with the approval of a judge. I paid $20,000 over the highest appraisal and the money went into their care account. In TN, even if the POA document allows sales to the POA, you need a judge's approval/review to make sure the sale is in the principal's best interest.
Tkz, when we went to a lawyer to complete our end of life documents (will, poa, etc) we were given a checklist to enumerate the powers we wanted the POA to have, We could give the poa the authority to gift assets on our behalf, to convey real property and the like.
The POA your father signed AUTHORIZES the poa to make transfers. It does not mean that a transfer of property has occurred.
Is your father concerned about this clause? If so, he should go back to the lawyercand have it changed.
Eta- I just went back and read your problems with POA brother from a year ago. Did he end up agreeing to pay you?
Nope, my brother never agreed to pay for care. BUT with some wise thinking and input from others, i figured out how to be compensated. Since my POA brother was only willing to pay “professionals” to care for my dad, I went to the agency that provides my dad’s caregivers, and asked to be hired. They agreed, trained me (I knew more about my dad’s care needs than them -lol), and I earned the appropriate certifications. Now I get paid. My brother called the agency and tried to convince them not to put me on payroll. They said I was an outstanding employee and had no reason. I still put in far many more hours helping my dad than what I get paid for, and that’s fine. Just nice to be compensated when there is a no show for a shift.
TKZMTJ: In POA, the agent is sometimes known as attorney-in-fact. Your father is known as the principal.
The following is a google definition: Power of attorney is the authority to make legally binding decisions on someone’s behalf. The person to whom you (the principal) grant power of attorney is called your attorney-in-fact (or agent).
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
It isn't a good idea to post short portions of legal documents to a social media site and ask for guidance as you may get wrong answers when you cannot AFFORD to be wrong.
Take this to an attorney.
You are wise advising the whole document needs to be read to fully understand its meaning.. But it’s the strangest thing. There is no further context or clarification for this one line that was inserted in the POA document. It sits on its own. Just a one simple line towards the end. 🤷♀️
HOWEVER, that person is charged with doing those things solely for the benefit of your dad, not for themselves.
Get with an attorney who specializes in Wills, Trusts and Estates and/or Elder care law if there are also other things that may need planning out such as qualification for Medicaid long term nursing home (NH) coverage. If Medicaid NH might be needed, the cost of said attorney should be paid from your father's assets as part of a spend down process. The attorney who drafted/excuted the POA is a place to start. Depending on his age and situation (is he blind? for example, but other things may come into play) there may be a way to structure certain Trusts to protect assets (for him, for his care).
Hopefully he has a Will and/or a Trust too, as that could define who potentially would receive any of his property or other assets after he passes, if there are assets left to pass down. It often can take a full year or 18 months once someone passes to fully "close their estate," dispense any assets to be given out and to pay final taxes.
The POA instead is intended to give a person (maybe more than one) power to act as if they are the person -- while that person is living -- to do things such as sell assets, transfer assets as others have said FOR THE BENEFIT OF that person. In most instances this would be the potential liquidation of their assets (property of any sort, retirement accounts, banking accounts, car anything of value) to pay for their care. That could be for home health aides, for assistive living, for nursing home care and a myriad of other things for them that they need. A POA has a legal fiduciary duty do this, act on behalf of the person for THEIR BENEFIT and CARE. You would need to keep all records -- have receipts -- for any transactions.
I am a POA for my mom, and I only use a debit card for anything she needs so there are clear receipts for what her funds are spend on. Do NOT use cash! Any and all assets (IRA funds as an example) were withdrawn in total to pay for her care and I have copies of all correspondence and letters with the IRA account entity affirming where the funds when so there is no question of how those funds were spent if there are any legal questions later by the "tax man," our State, or Medicaid (she is in a nursing home now with dementia and Medicaid had to take over coverage once she was fully spent down, ALL assets spent).
Once the person passes, the POA no longer is in force. At death, the POA ceases to "exist" as a legal document and then the Will takes over thereafter. Depending on who is named as the "Executor" in the Will (you or someone else?) that person then takes over on handling the funeral, burial and those expenses and, then, the closing of the Estate.
Both a POA and a Will are really needed. Perhaps a Trust too if there are lots of assets or a Special Needs Trust if allowable (depends on the circumstances) to keep some assets out of the Estate and potentially out of Probate.
Lots here, get with an attorney to help with this.
I just went back and read about that. You never gave a final update from a year ago....can you tell us what happened?
The POA your father signed AUTHORIZES the poa to make transfers. It does not mean that a transfer of property has occurred.
Is your father concerned about this clause? If so, he should go back to the lawyercand have it changed.
Eta- I just went back and read your problems with POA brother from a year ago. Did he end up agreeing to pay you?
The following is a google definition:
Power of attorney is the authority to make legally binding decisions on someone’s behalf. The person to whom you (the principal) grant power of attorney is called your attorney-in-fact (or agent).
I don't like the wording, but based on my knowledge (I am not an attorney), the POA is in a fiduciary role and must act as such.
See: https://www.florida-probate-lawyer.com/blog/2012/october/can-i-do-whatever-i-want-with-a-power-of-attorne/
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