SRADES64 Asked June 27, 2024
Is there anything I can do to convince my mother that no one is stealing from her?
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My 91 yr. old mother has dementia and has always been a narcissist. She thinks my husband and my sons steal from her. She also thinks they stay in her home when she’s in the hospital and “ransack” her place. This is all baseless but then she tells these things to complete strangers. I have to help her because she can’t drive, she has poor eyesight and hearing and has totally isolated herself, but I can’t stand to be around her. She is a very mean, nasty woman.
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So then convincing her may not be possible. But what if you just say "no they arent" then just change the subject. Or ignore if she persists. Anyway, even if she thinks they are stealing, what is she going to do about it? Probably she cant do a thing. if she tries to tell others that they are stealing, just shake your head so they can see that its nonsense.
This stuff is not easy to deal with, I agree.
I read your profile . I’m sorry you have recently lost your son . And between that and your mother’s illness it’s understandable that this is so difficult .
You’ve had so much on your mind .
Do you have POA for your mother ? Or does another family member ?
Because what you described of your mother coming across the yard to your house and trying to hit you over the head with tools is an alarm sounding that your mother needs to be placed in memory care .
POA if invoked can have your mother placed in memory care .
The other point is that you were not safe . If that happens again where you or someone in your home is unsafe due to your mother call 911. Tell them Mom is agitated . A UTI could make Mom act out worse . They will take Mom to the hospital . From there you can speak to the social worker and they can help place Mom in a facility .
You would need to tell them she is violent , you are not safe , you can not take care of your mother any longer . And that it’s an “ unsafe discharge “ because your mother should not be living alone . Use the words “ unsafe discharge “ , because they will try to get you to take Mom home at first . Do not pick Mom up from the hospital . Do not move in with Mom or move her in with you .
If your mother ends up in the hospital for any reason at all . Same as above do not take her home , get her placed .
I certainly hope there are no guns in either of your homes for Mom to get a hold of.
Your mother is very dangerous. She could have seriously hurt you.
See if your state has the Baker Act. She needs psychiatric care.
"My 89 year old mother is my next door neighbor and is suffering from paranoia, narcissism and a form of dementia. She is such a mean, bitter, miserable woman that she is totally isolated from everyone. Last night she came to my door to accuse my husband of stealing 2 tools from her house. We NEVER go into her house but she’s always accusing us of stealing and ransacking her place. She lifted up her hand above her head to hit me with the tools that she said my husband replaced hers with. I was able to physically protect myself. She is the reason I searched for this website. I need clarity and advice and support without condemnation."
You need to call 911 if she even just threatens you. Tell EMTs she's volatile, has attacked you in the past with weapons and may have a UTI. At the hospital she will be tested. This is your opportunity to transition her into a facility. She is an unsafe discharge. Ask to speak to a social worker on how to have her go into a facility directly from the hospital.
If she currently isn't taking any meds for her agitation and aggression, then this will need to happen while in the hospital before she can go into any facility.
My 95-yr old Mom lives next to me. When she gets paranoid there's no convincing her since dementia robs people of their reason and logic and empathy. She came to me yesterday insisting I had 3 of her spoons. I knew I didn't but I looked anyway. Today she came back to the house when she knew I was gone but my husband was home and looked through the drawers again, and of course didn't find them but she hasn't asked me since. I don't bother trying to convince her of anything -- it never changes or eases her mind.
Your Mom needs facility care for her sake and yours. Please take care of yourself! I'm so sorry for the loss of your son (and for all the years of distress that I'm sure preceded it). May you receive peace in your heart.
This is what I will add if you want names & info about this behaviour:
*Paranoia*
Unfortunatly, this problem of 'stealing' is reported as a very common symptom of dementia.
*Confabulation*
An item can't be found. The brain likes to solve problems - so reasons items not found MUST be stolen. By theives, neighbours or family they see regularly. (Sometimes by ghosts, faeries or pixies too).
*Fiblets*
You may need to consider some fiblets to where that item got to.. borrowed, broken, moved etc.
As you drive your Mother, could you drive her to a Doctor appointment? Talk, visit or write to the Doctor beforehand to advice the behaviour concerns. Have Mom go for a 'checkup'. The Doctor can do the checkup & (hopefully) a quick cognitive screening test. It's not a cure & she may refuse, but it may be worth trying.
Have you learned about dementia. If not please YouTube Teepa Snow. When you understand it more, you have more compassion and understanding of what's going on with the demented.
Best of luck
I have never been a fan of Teepa Snow or any of her advice because most of what she says does not help or work in situations for caregivers dealing with dementia behaviors.
The mother probably belongs in memory care now.
https://www.alz.org/kansascity/helping_you/programs_services/for_families_and_care_partners/companion-card
There's a ton of them online if you Google "dementia cards".
Call 911 when mom threatens you, as mentioned. This is NOT about compassion but your safety at this point. Violent behavior is common with dementia, unfortunately.
Good luck to you.
The mother sounds like she is at the point where she should not be taken out in public anymore.
Don't wait until she seriously injures someone or burns the house down before you call APS and the police on her.
She belongs in memory care. Put her in one or let the state put her in one.
I used to spend hours finding “stolen” items, thinking I’d ease some of her anxiety. “Oh, here it is. Gee Mom, you misplace things almost as often as I do.” (Laugh it off.)
One day her purse was “stolen” 7 times (she had enlisted my husband and kids to hunt, unknown to me, until we all discussed our day later) and, as I went to help her, she muttered “You’ll never find it this time.” What?!?! I did, and she was angry. From then on I just shrugged and said “Sorry to hear it. Guess you’ll have to make do without.”
Seemed a mix of paranoia and an attention seeking game.
Do you have POA for mom? If not you may have to get Guardianship as it sounds like it would be impossible to get POA documents signed.
Mom should either have caregivers or mom should be in Memory Care.
You would have to help her less if she were in Memory Care.
If mom owns the house selling it would provide assets that would pay for MC.
Even with the cost of MC with no property tax, no insurance as well as all other household expenses that she is currently paying the asset from the house sale and any other income she may have would last a while.
Another option..she remains at home with caregivers.
To cut back on the caregiver expense if she could get into an Adult Day Program 2 or 3 days a week that would keep her occupied and no need for caregivers when she is at Day Care.
How often do you drive her around? Caregivers can take her to the store.
If it is to doctor visits, how often are they? and can they be cut back on?
Oh to answer your question...no there is noting that you can do or say to convince your mother that no one is stealing anything from her.
With dementia what she believes is what she believes.
What she says is true, is true.
If she is convinced that a group of people came in and took her toothbrush then a group of people cam in and took her toothbrush, just get another one for her.
Nothing infuriates me more than her accusations against my family, especially when she tells complete strangers these lies. She doesn’t do it in my presence, so I can’t refute her, but her statements get back to me later. Who knows how many in our community thinks our family is a den of thieves?
Especially coming over and threatening to give you a skull fracture with a tool she claims you took? Does "attempted murder" ring a bell?
The last thing I would be doing is driving her anywhere. She could grab the steering wheel and cause an accident and kill you both.
As Burnt said, she is a serious danger to herself and others. I can bet all the neighbors know this woman is a deranged, psychotic and hateful old woman, and they are waiting for her family to put her in a facility, so everyone in the vicinity can breath a sigh of relief. Trust me, complete strangers don't want her even speaking to them at this point.
Next threat she pulls, call 911 and tell them she's threatened you several times holding a steel wrench over your head, and is a clear danger to herself and others. Don't allow her to continue her psychotic behavior to your family whatsoever.
I recommend you consider:
1. Not visiting or visit / check in very infrequently based on how you feel being around her. These toxic feelings are not good for either of you.
2. Contact Teepa Snow; sign up for a few webinars or get her books on what dementia is / the different types / how the brain is affected / and how to communicate.
3. Never take her 'confused' dementia 'thinking' and communications personally. This is NOT personal to you at all. Her brain cells are declining and dying. She cannot help it.
4. You do not 'try to convince.'
You change the subject or
say "I'll check into it. ... Thank you for telling me."
She won't be able to change. She may keep repeating herself. The 'best' you can do is limit your visits / interactions as she is clearly triggering you in very toxic ways.
The key is to keep her calm so you tell her whatever may support that.
Also, consider if medication is needed. Talk to the nurse / administrator / manager / MD.
5. Get volunteers or pay caregivers to visit. Even if very limited. Call college dept heads in nursing, geriatrics, counseling. Tell them you want to hire a student to visit or ask for volunteers.
Realize she won't change and you have to - for you/r well being and perhaps for the quality of your marriage/family life.
Finally, ask yourself why you are putting yourself in this position since you clearly do not want to be and/or unable to cope with your mother? I might suggest you get into therapy - to process through how you feel now - and perhaps find out what is 'running you'/r behavior and thoughts now. It could be decades of having a narcissist mother and the wounding that's caused you.
I feel pain just reading how adverse you feel about being around her - and that you do it. I realize that often finances are involved. Although you need to take care of yourself.
Gena / Touch Matters
There is not much you can do. If there isn't someone that she automatically trusts to tell her the truth, then you are stuck with her accusations.
As someone else said, there are probably many people around her that are just waiting and wondering why you haven't put her into managed care. If you can't stand to be around her and you can't find someone else to care for her, then your only option is to get her into managed care.
She probably will hate it and work the guilt trip on you. However, you need to be strong and realize that you have done the best that you can, no one else is willing to help you with the responsibility, and it is up to you to start prioritizing your own health over hers.
Its hard, however, to keep yourself relatively sane, you need to do this, for yourself, your husband and your sons.
As much as it vexes you, don’t argue or try to correct…you’ll get no where fast. Try and change the subject or distract her…must be something she likes…music, tv, crafts, pets, taking her for a ride, accompanying to a store, gardening, cooking, something you can do with her or at least be near her for her own safety and to get her off the wild accusations. Reminiscing about some past thing she liked. If strangers looked shocked or concerned, so what? You don’t know them and don’t owe any explanation.
Try and get a hospice evaluation to see if she’ll qualify for some palliative care. Hospice is not just for end of life. Medicare pays for hospice help.
The one time the ladies all got together in the AL, with my mother ring leading them, to discuss all the THEFTS going on, they marched into the Executive Directors office to lodge a complaint. The man had the patience of Job. He told them there was nothing he could do personally about all the "theft" because none of it was witnessed, but they should feel free to call the sheriff to file a report.
My mother would never put her money where her mouth was, but one of the other old biddies did just that....she called the sheriff! So later that evening, the county sheriff and the Executive Director himself knocked on my mother's door to interview her about the silver heart necklace with dad's CREMAINS in it that was stolen. Of all things. My mother flew into a meltdown immediately and told them no such thing had happened, that she'd never said such a thing, and slammed the door in their faces! And proceeded to call ME in hysterics. I told her that accusations have consequences, mom. She tried telling me she never accused anybody and I cut her right off, the gig wss UP.
The next day, I went over to her apartment, pulled her big jewelry box out of the closet, and sitting right on top of the pile was the "stolen" silver heart necklace with dad's cremains in it. "Where did THAT come from?" my flustered mother demanded to know. "Right where you put it, ma, that's where it came from."
The moral of the story is this: agree with mom or don't, it doesn't matter. Once dementia sets in, they get an idea stuck in their head and you can't chop it out of there with an AXE.
Right after The Necklace Incident, my mother went right back to insisting the staff was robbing her blind. I let it all go in one ear and out the other. Which is what I suggest you do, too. Right after you place her in Memory Care Assisted Living because living alone is absurd at this point.
There is no convincing someone of anything once they are having their sundowning moments and are dead on in their accusatory mode. There are usually three people these people will select. They have one they will love, one they trust, and the third person will become a target.
I had one woman who accused me of stealing can milk, her adult briefs, trash bags and her carnation milk that she used in her coffee. She wanted to call the police and report me. It can be nerve-racking dealing with someone like this.
If the validation doesn't work, or you don't want to do the therapeutic fibbing, ignore, ignore and ignore some more.
Years ago, my grandaddy had an old girlfriend. She spent the night and walked off with his eyeglasses and false teeth the next day. He didn't have dementia.
She has dementia, possibly the worst and saddest disease we can experience.
Of course her claims are baseless.
Are you worried that the strangers she tells this to will care and act on it?
You say you have to help her and drive her. Why?
Is she living alone? Is she living with you or another family member?
It is time to find a memory care facility or nursing home for her to spend her remaining years.
There is no reason for you to feel guilty for providing the best care that you can for your mother.
And don't internalize her complaints. Her brain is not working. You can't reason with her. She can't reason with you. Or anyone.
You seem to be a very caring daughter.
Giving her the care she needs is what a caring daughter does. YOU do not need to provide that care. You can. For as long as you are able.
Care facilities are designed to care for people when they can't safely live alone and their families are no longer able to provide the care they need.
You would have to be a nurse, a behavior specialist, and a CNA who changes diapers, cleans and changes tubes, and watches over her 24 hours daily.
If you are not that, let the professionals help.
And give your mother your love and attention. Disregard her claims that someone is stealing from her. That is a common claim from dementia sufferers.
Pleasantly respond with the most positive thing you can say when she makes these claims. Don't bother trying to argue with her. Her brain doesn't work the way you want it to.
BTW: This question comes up sometimes: YOU do not have to pay for her care.
Her income will pay for her care. And if she can't afford it, you can help her to apply for Medicaid which will help to pay.
If she has money or assets, those will go toward paying for her care.