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She fell a couple of months ago and I gained access to all her accounts so I could pay her bills. She gave me access. However I have discovered she has accrued a considerable amount of debt. So I have been paying off her debt. I have been paying for about 400.00 of her expenses (cable, phone, 2 medic alert devices, cell phone) for years. I would like to taking over her finances without calling her incompetent. Oh and she has a reverse mortgage on her house. Still not sure why as it appears she should be able to live within her means (less what I pay). I feel the loan agent is a little shady as well.

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tad, my cousin didn't find his guardianship hearing to be quite so as pam is stating; he did not want his granddaughter to be his guardian - question, are you in the same state as your mom? - she was his only relative in his state but he even wanted to move to the same state as his sister and let her be his guardian - since they said it had to be somebody in the same state as him - but at that point they said he couldn't and she couldn't; not sure what MD was involved; do know she'd already placed him in a nursing home - or at least he was in one, had at least been sent there for rehab but I think at that point they would not let him go back home to live by himself, even though he had completed his rehab; they're the ones who were saying he needed a guardian because they'd released him like that before and he'd just wound right back up there so I think it was their doc who submitted his medical opinion along those lines and his guardian ad litem just went along with it; one thing that helped facilitate it along those lines was that his granddaughter's mother-in-law was the head nurse of all the nursing homes in the state, so either she was concurring or was even behind it, even though they all said granddaughter wasn't really wanting it but if so, then what was the problem with letting him have it his way; he wasn't trying to say he didn't want or need a guardian; he just didn't want it to be her but it didn't matter; that's who they appointed anyway and she immediately moved him in the entirely opposite direction from where he told the court he wanted to go and they didn't care; nothing anybody else, his sister, who went to court and told him, as well as him, what he wanted and what she would do, mattered, so..
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I got the run around from the banks too, even with valid poa's.
Not like it used to be. Having a local lawyer who can later get involved is helpful since these "bank rules" are often not written..they just don't want to go through the expense and potential exposure of validating the poa. One regional small bank I dealt with had their legal depth review it. No problem . Great. The other was a global commercial bank that wouldn't budge until the lawyer called the manager.
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One word of advice. Definitely get a POA in place. Also, you at be a little reluctant to tell her what should be done but this situation may get out of hand unless you take control now. I have a POA in pace for the past 5 years but didn't begin taking over paying the bills fully until about a year ago. If I had only been able to do this sooner, my Mom wouldn't be stuck with a equity loan that she initiated. Good luck.
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yes, life, and I just shared mine; she could have a problem, even if you didn't
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If your mom is able to understand questions and terms of a medical, durable, and mental health POA than you can have a competant Notary sign the papers for your mom. In AZ you do not even need to be present however it is a good idea. The notary is witnessing that your mom is aware of the content of the documents and agrees to them. She is her notary - not yours. People can make this very complex if they want to or keep it more simply done. Once deemed incompetant things can get very sticky. Too many people wait to long and then there is no going back. You can find the appropriate paperwork online and yes, once signed and notorized they are legal documents. Most banks have forms they want used for financials but the process is the same. Do this as soon as possible before your mom shows significant signs of incompetance -some forgetfullness is not the same as incompetance. A good notary should say that you mom is not able to understand what she is signing and won't go any further if that is the case. Make sure when your mom is w/ the notary that she has not taken any altering meds ie: pain meds, sleep aids, etc. as that can alter her mind set and can make her appear less capable than she really is.
Good luck and don't wait. A mental POA has nothing to do with current incompetance . It is designed to address needs in the event of.......
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Hi Milburn3ts! Although our attorney drew up all the paperwork for DPOA, the banks gave us the run around and it took over two months to get them to accept it and only after we brought both my inlaws in to see the branch manager. I couldn't believe that the bank didn't care the DPOA was duly witnessed and notarized and all the signatures matched up to the ones on file at the bank. Can you speak to what to do now that banks are wary of accepting DPOA due to an increase in elder fraud?
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The guardianship process (called conservator ship in CA) is a very expensive and cumbersome legal process and should only be undertaken if there is a dispute in
about who should be in charge of the money. I worked for 3 years as a court investigator for such cases.
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It's called DPOA.
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Tad, the Guardianship hearing is very sensitive to your mother's dignity. Nobody is going to point to her and call her incompetent. The court evaluator will interview her and ask her if she trusts you. The MD will submit a medical opinion. Your mom will have her own lawyer called a Guardian ad Litem for the hearing. She doesn't even need to go to court if she does not want to. Our mom did not go, she was perfectly happy to let someone else handle all the decision making.
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debdaughter....im not having a problem...you are. i just shared my experiences. isn't that what we do here?
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Thank you all for the information. I really appreciate it. My mom is difficult at best. I'm not sure at this point if she will agree to a POA. Prior to her getting a little better she was more agreeable as she needed someone to pay her bills, etc. I should have acted on it then but she was a full time job taking care of her. Thanks again for the information. I will look into a a durable POA. Keep your fingers crossed she agrees. Although I heard her asking my sister to take her shopping for her adult children. I have paid of 2 of her credit cards and I contribute 400+ in her monthly income. I would hate for her to accrue that debt again. :( I think as horrible as it sounds I may have to tell her (if she resists) that I will stop paying for her expenses. My sister is irresponsible at best and she would rather put my mom somewhere so she doesn't have to be involved. The kicker is my mom and her have a good relationship however she never comes to see her and she lives 1 mile farther away than I do. I stayed full time with my mother until last week. Sorry I digressed ... wrong topic for that stuff! :)
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and that's the problem we're having; but yes, I've even done 3-way conference calls to get the necessary approvals to take care of business and get information
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nydaughter....i just shared my experience...don't really care if you think it's right???
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Debdaughter is right and it would be unwise to impersonate your mother. POA is a privilege, and it is important to deal with everyone above board. POA is best drawn up by an attorney especially if you ever need to take it across state lines.
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debdaughter....yah...well we have done it for information...never had a problem. if i want i could have my dad sit next to me and they ask him for his approval for me to get info for him....it's never been a big deal!? and that's my experience...not sure about yours...
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A POA in legal zoom does not stand up in most states. State POA laws are complicated. Use a lawyer. You will end up spending more money.
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you think they can't tell the difference in age by your voice; had someone do that with my dad once and they called back and demanded to talk to him; they could tell it wasn't him that called
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I have a similar situation with an elderly family member who is competent but was living beyond her means incurring balances on multiple credit cards and only making minimum payments each month. She was a shopaholic hoarder and had her apartment and 2 storerooms full of unopened purchases! Her thrill was the hunt not the use of the item after purchased. She had no clue about what she was spending or even what her income would allow her to spend. I had to take over 10 years ago when her medical situation required an assisted living situation, the cost for which exceeded her income. I got DPoA for health care at her request and also had her add my name to her bank accounts. I had all income sources auto deposited and pay all of her bills with online banking. I paid off all credit cards and outstanding medical bills and closed all but one credit card account. I receive the bills for the credit card and pay the balance in full each month. I also receive all other billings ( mostly for prescriptions and doctors) but she is legally responsible for all of her bills, not me.
There are several helpful answers in this post...see those with a large number of indications that the post was helpful...I will add the following consideration:
Be careful about adding your name as a co-applicant on loans or credit cards as that makes you liable for the debts. I was surprised to learn when my husband and I applied for a mortgage loan that her credit card showed up on my credit report because she added me as an authorized user, even though the card is in her name!
2.
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yes, just call and say that you are your mother...they don't know...and will answer all your questions. i've had to do this for my mother...and i have my brother call and say he's my father and they always answer my questions.
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Most companies including banks make up rules as they go along when it comes to accepting POA because they don't have a process in place. Ask for a company's POA policy in writing in advance of doing anything with that company. A doctor's note has nothing to with POA and if a company is asking for it suggests they don't understand POA. A POA is between two parties. It is witnessed and notarized for a reason. When dealing with a bank, I suggest you only deal with the branch manager. Be ready to go back and forth because most companies have poor customer service.
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If you have a financial POA ask creditors to send her bills "in care of" you to your address. Another option - if she feels better seeing paper bills, as her POA you can establish on-line access to many accounts. Keep her on record as the Account Owner. All financial records/accounts need to be in order. It must be clear who the account owner or co-signer is for big contracts especially - like the reverse mortgage. Under the best of conditions it's hard to mange finances using a telephone near the hospital bed. If she is capable of understanding this, maybe it will be a good enough reason for her to let you manage more of the finances. It is very reasonable for you to secure Financial and Medical POAs if it's not yet done. You've seen enough of her records to know things aren't right. Your not being able to review the Reverse mortgage with the finance company will make things extremely complicated if she has to apply for Medicaid. Medicaid will require up-to-the-moment status on that reverse mortgage. Realistically you could not afford to pay her medical/hospital bills. It needs to be clear who has the authority to act on all financial and medical issues. It also needs to be clear that your mom's debts are not your debts. Creditors and Medicaid look closely to see who owns what debts. In the end, the account owner is responsible - not an adult child helping write the checks - unless you signed as the owner of her accounts. Someone needs the ability to access her information immediately in some situations. Usually that someone is a family member who has medical and financial POAs in place.
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Welcome to my world. Had the same sad discovery 6 years ago with my dad. He had tallied up $100,000 in debt. He has a very small income and there was no hope of paying it off.
The process of completely taking over his finances was long and ugly. In the end, I put him on a strictly cash basis, essentially giving him an allowance which is doled out in installments, four times a week. It's been wonderful! He seems to be able to manage just fine with a set amount of cash. He can understand it so much better than the confusion of credit or debit cards, which he always swore he didn't use nearly as much as he did.
In between financial chaos and the newer 'all cash' solution, I tried a debit card called True Link. It really is a terrific idea and, I believe, would be just the ticket for many seniors with dementia. My dad just couldn't grasp how it ran out of money in the same way as he can when his cash runs low. I do recommend you give True Link a try though. It could be a good first step in getting your mom back on a good path, while still giving her control.
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There are many ways to design a Power of Attorney (POA). In this case it sounds as though your mother needs you to act on her behalf now. Assuming that she is competent under your state law she can grant you the power so that it is immediately effective. She would also probably want the power to be durable meaning that the power remains in effect if she becomes incompetent. Don't use downloaded forms, see an elder law attorney in your state.
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Basically, you will need a qualified lawyer to do all the paperwork. there will be items that you never thought of. They can streamline the process. If you don't have the LEGAL paperwork, you will be punished. Remember there is no good deed that goes unpunished. I have a friend who cared for his uncle, but didn't get the correct paperwork and in the end the other relatives sued him and he lost and had to pay back ALL that was used from uncle's account from the time nephew cared for him until the end. Not fair but it was over $100,000. Whatever it takes, Do the paperwork,
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My aunt and uncle had the reverse mortgage. He passed away in April this year, my aunt which had Alzheimers went into a nursing home soon after. We were told by their lawyer that with the reverse mortgage if my aunt or whom ever they left their home to could not make the payments the house went back to the reverse mortgage company, which it did. Reverse mortgage is a no win situation either way it will get the home, My uncle took out the mortgage years ago and still owed over 95K he would never had paid it off.
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You can get all the documents you need for a POA from Legalzoom. Much cheaper than a lawyer and very easy to understand. You will need a notary to witness the signing and 2 other witnesses. A POA is not about incompetence.
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If you are her POA make sure your her Durable POA. Then explain to her your concerns and tell her you feel you should take over her bills and help her out.
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First, she needs to make you her POA and Medical POA. Second, continue paying her bills. With a reverse mortgage, any beneficiary cannot sell this home until she passes. I don't know what agent you are referring to, but listen to your gut. There are a lot of people out there who want to take advantage of the elderly. Merry Christmas!
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Surprise there are. It is much simpler for a person to say I cannot do the finances any more I want x to do it that it to say I want to change my will to leave everything to the local dogs home or I want to sell my home. A dr note has a validity period just so as you know. Mums specialist identified mum as having moderate heading towards severe dementia, vascular and alzheimers. When I asked him for a letter to confirm this he said oh I can't do that I haven't seen her for 3 months. Now correct me if I am wrong - it isn't going to suddenly reverse itself and she will be fine again is it? And even if it did she could revoke the POA. So don't even think that getting a physicians letter will be easy - it won't be.

I suppose they could see it as a money spinning exercise but surely not - they wouldn't ever do that now would they?!!!!!!!
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When my mother moved in with me in another state, I went to social security to have her address changed. I explain to the lady at the desk my mother had dementia. Social Security made me the payee. I then went to the bank to have her check transfer to the new bank. They put my name on it and beside my name was written payee. Which meant it was mamas money but I could write all her checks. Along with this you have to keep all receipts and the money can only be used for her and her bills. I later got DPA. That was for her medical and financial needs. Again its very important to keep receipts and write down all expenses. Once she went into a nursing home, everything is written over to the NH. POA and DPOA either one make sure you keep records and receipts You will be audit by Social Security.
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