Living with the narcissistic parent. Anyone else experience this?

crepella, I have done some reading on narcissism and do not feel that psychologists/psychiatrists have defined it well. One of the first things that is mentioned in the description of the disorder is that there is an excessive amount of effort put into the narcissist's appearance. Believe me, I have known narcissists that don't care at all what they look like. The overriding characteristic, in my mind, is that they are the center of their own universe and expect to be the center of the universe to everyone around them. They seek to have their own needs and wants met, no matter the expense to other people. They are all take and no give, except as it serves themselves. I suspect that narcissists don't have the ability to really feel love, not even for their own children.

I don't know if there is really anything we can do about narcissism, because it isn't illegal. Anyone watching the story of Joan Crawford in Mommie Dearest would say that she indeed was the ultimate in the narcissistic parent, but nothing she did could be prosecuted. However, we know that yelling "No wire hangers" at her adoptive daughter hurt as much as if she had beaten her with them. Who would a child report such an incident to, except maybe in a book written in subsequent years? The child couldn't even go to a psychologist without the parent's permission.

Even more hidden is Mommy Damnedest, who bullies and belittles her children at every turn. If you get a chance, google the phrase. You may find a lot of good information.

Dealing with a narcissist makes a person feel like they're dog-paddling in deep water, trying to keep their head from going under. But ultimately a person realizes that they have been the strong one all along. It is sad that many children are raised by narcissists, who could never give the love needed, but it is just the way of life. The children are fortunate that they only have to stay with the parent 18-20 years, then have a lifetime to recover. If they return to caregive for the parent, they just have to remember who they have become and not return to the shamed child.

Thanks for your comments JessieBelle. I especially like the "dog-paddling in deep water". That's exactly what it feels like. Though I haven't come to realize I'm the strong one. Maybe, if I manage to outlive mom, I'll wake up to feeling that way. I sure hope so. I will look Mommy Damnedest up, thanks so much. I really appreciate all the info.

Wow, where do I start? There are many definitions of a narcissist. It runs a spectrum from mildly to severe. My parents (dad now deceased) were severe. Dad was the obvious, grandiose, "little Napoleon". Mom was the victim. They were codependent. Mom always blamed dad for everything wrong in her life and after he died, well, guess who got to be the new "scapegoat"? Yes, me.

She has to have someone to blame all of her unhappiness on due to the fact that she never takes responsibility for anything. She is immature, selfish and I believe not capable of truly loving anyone except herself.

Yes, narcissism is beyond damaging. No one really can understand how harmful it is unless you live it. Even my husband who can do nothing but shake his head and feel sorry for me, does not understand it. It is a mental illness of sorts and can be passed from generation to generation. However the narcissist will never admit they are a narcissist. You see, everything is YOUR fault, not their fault.

I have found that children of narcissists will be damaged for life. But, you can learn how to set boundaries or completely disengage with these hateful people. That is what I am doing. I don't think many understand the deep, psychological damage these people do to their children. Leaving them with a terrible burden of climbing out of a deep dark hole.

I feel with knowledge or therapy, you can begin to understand why your parents are this way, that you can't change them and that to wish for a real" relationship with them is like wishing for wings to fly.

I feel sorrow for all of those who have had to deal with a parent of this sort, but two parents (and often there are two) is just a very unfair hand to be dealt. Go to the site "daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com" and you will probably see your mother. I saw mine and my father and others as well. You are not alone.

Children of narcissistic parents are damaged for life. I am one. My mother has been A1 narcissist life long. She also has Parkinsons and dementia and has taken to calling me from the nursing home every afternoon. Yesterday she was ranting & raving about getting a new house in the spring "when I can walk again" - she's been in a wheelchair for 9 months since breaking a hip, unable to sit up or stand alone and after a stroke a few months ago her speech is slurred. She can't get in or out of bed and can't go to the bathroom by herself.

She wants to talk to me about finances so she knows how much she has to spend, then get a realtor to look for her. Determined she would buy another house and have live in nurses 24/7 (which we can't afford) we had quite the fight.

I don't feel well today, slept in and I'm quite shaky. She'll call again around 4 p.m. and I dread the phone ringing. I visit, I run her errands, ensure she has all she needs and pay her bills but she must stop calling or I'll change my phone number.

I threatened it some time ago and she straightened out but, one more time and I truly will. She knows the name of a nearby village but I've been very careful never to give her my address - many years ago she called the cops on me when I didn't answer the phone!

I would just go along with her. She can't move, so what would it hurt? It would keep her busy looking at MLS books. Just do not make any phone calls for her. She has to do that, herself. "It sounds like fun, Mom. Let me see how you are walking, today."

Chicago I can't go along with it as she'll completely obsess and start calling realtors. She's already trying to get the phone number of a former neighbour to see if she can get her house back that was sold a year ago - huge thing, 3 bedrooms, 3 bathrooms, 3 living rooms, double garage, high taxes and she could barely afford to keep it. She's demanding to know where her furniture is. It went to auction when the house was sold and she was kept very well informed of everything. She does these kinds of things then I have to undo them. I ended up saying we're all looking forward to spring so we can do stuff.

Since her last stroke her dementia has become really bad and I've been finding mail (government stuff re her pension) tossed in drawers so, apart from things like greeting cards, any mail will now be held at the front desk for me to collect.

Well, you can do a search on this site because this topic has come up many times. The more you read, the more you will realize you are not alone and the behaviors are universal. I can tell you from experience, as the person ages or gets dementia, it doesn't get better, but worse. Their world shrinks, even the best parents...and everything becomes about them and no one can do enough for them, be there enough for them, or take care of them the way they "deserve" in thanks for giving their children life....

First, don't wait for the acknowledgement, apology, regret...it will never come. The thank you will never come because "we owe it to them for all they've given us". Yep.

It's sad, and the sooner you come to grips with it, take it from my experience, the sooner you will feel better and move forward. This site is a lifesaver for me and had I not found it these past 18 mo, my life and relationships would have been a mess. So you are at the right place.

WE acknowledge you and feel your pain if that helps.

I still love my mom. She loves me. I don't always like her, but I love her. I've set boundaries with what I will take and put up with. I'm not mean, I've just learned my triggers and leave her be when she is to tough. I ignore her and remove myself from the situ or premises when she starts on the narcissistic behaviors. Because she knows I will leave or not take her calls or visit for awhile following these episodes, she pulls them a lot less, significantly less than she used to.

I've also tried to learn more about her dementia, shrinking world, fears of losing her control and independence and that has helped me be more patient and more importantly, stop taking her accusations, criticism, refusal to take my advice, personally.

It doesn't mean I let her get away with anything, I will tell her when she says something hurtful and tell her now that she is making me feel bad. Then I tell her I need space and she is allowed to have her opinion or perspective and I leave.

I don't live with her.

You need to take care of you and if that means moving out and arranging outside care for your mom, then so be it. Tell her, you will no longer be treated this way and for your own mental health and the sake of the relationship you are choosing to move elsewhere and she should find someone who can "do it her way".

You are not alone. I'm living with one. I can't do anything right. Dementia makes them so much worse. If she doesn't get her way. She rages. I've heard all my life how I ruined hers. I'm an only child so it's been a hard road. I'm having to make decisions about her right now. I may have to walk away.

My mom died on December 20th. The only reason that I'm still half way sane is that I put the blame...and kept the blame...exactly where it belonged. On my mom. My mom had a mental problem...not my fault. My mom had a mean streak. Not my fault. My mom was abusive, verbally and physically. Not my fault. My mom could never be pleased or satisfied. Not my fault. My mom's idea of satisfaction was absolute perfection, something only God is capable of, so she was never, ever satisfied no matter how much anyone did or gave, namely me. Not my fault.

And all the times she told me it was my fault all my life I refused, absolutely refused, to believe it. Even as a young kid I sensed danger around my mom. I remember my mom telling me that she was the way she was because she had to raise me and I 'made' her that way....Yeah. Sure. lol I thought it was funny when I first heard that and I still think it's funny thinking about it now. You don't have relationships with narcissists, you survive them. I survived by never owning what my mom dished out. I placed that responsibility mentally squarely on her shoulders mentally. Complete disassociation with her problems and refusing to accept and shoulder the blame for that mess is what kept my sanity in tact.

Does that mean I didn't experience lingering problems and issues myself dealing with her? Not by a long shot. I'm on my knees, crawling and gasping, scraping and clawing my way uphill out of a dark pit, but I'm on the right path.

I felt sorry for my mom. Even as a kid, dealing with some major abuse, I felt pity at this poor soul that felt the need to do such extensive harm, that felt such an intense need to HURT. One thing is very clear above all else....allow yourself to drown in HATE because of injustice against you and you're a goner. You MUST forgive or you lose. Period.

Oh, and if you want acknowledgement you'll be waiting until the sun implodes. It MUST be good enough to acknowledge YOURSELF.

Chicago I dare not mention her walking or lack of as she'll obsess that if she can walk she'll be able to buy another house and get out of the NH. With that firmly in mind she'll be trying to get out of bed and walk on her own and down she'll go. There's an alarm on the bed but by the time the staff rush to her room she's already on the floor. She was taken to hospital for stitches on Christmas eve and fell again last week, no damage done though.

StandingAlone, that's an awesome story. For so many of us, especially as only children, we thought the way our parents acted was normal and we were defective. I still have inside me this horrible feeling that I am all a fake and my life is not real. I think it comes from that constant message of my childhood of being unacceptable, of having to keep up appearances as at costs, to hide who you really are and what you really feel, and not to be too open about what you think either...and my God, never ever ever brag or toot your own horn. I look back and see that I lived in a state of tortured self consciousness and shame. There was always one more unwritten rule to be broken that meant I was a bad, bad, selfish child. Happiness and fun were things to be squashed out and other people were beneath us or some kind of a constant threat because they Thought They Were Better Than Us. It made no sense, and it's amazing I ever managed to keep any friends at all...my social skills sucked. I was teased for being weird because I was, and if my mom found out about that, I got yelled at! I did not start to realize I was not the one with the problem until my late teens or twenties. I don't know that people more like me than like you really start to recover from all that til we're in our 50s or so.

Vstefans, those feelings you still have inside you are whispered lies from the past. You must learn to recognize those feelings as such and totally, completely and utterly reject them. We're all works in progress, VS. And it does take work. You have to be on guard for that kind of negativity and when you realize that you're going down the wrong road, still believing it, recognize it for the lie from the past that it is, reject it and move on from it. Don't own it. TODAY is what matters. Today is a new day. The past is dead. You will not live it another minute of another day. That's what you keep telling yourself.

I thought I was weird for a long time, too. But I embraced it. I like my kind of weird and those that matter like it, too. lol I am utterly myself. I refuse to be anything else. You're not a fake. You can be anybody or anything you want to be if you just choose it. It all comes down to choices. You either believe the lies, or you reject them. You either stay down under oppression or you rise above it. You either accept and love yourself or you don't.

What do you want to be? Who do you want to be? What kind of person do you want to be? All that is up to YOU alone, your parents and their twisted views be damned. Let them own the lie. As long as YOU don't. :)

The first step to getting free of a narcissist is learning the definition of one! How many keep going on and on and think the relative they know is normalcy because that's all they know? Congrats to all of you breaking free! Keep growing and growing!

I understand....I have lived the nightmare. The N parent is a vampire who will eventually suck the life out of you. All I can offer is after YEARS of survival attempts, I found the following sources to be helpful: The book The Narcissistic Family by Pressman & Pressman (5 stars from me!) ; a good psychologist ; meditating (try Healthy Journeys website....I like Belleruth's CDs); quit trying to explain the situation to folks who have not lived the reality because they cannot understand the depth of our pain nor the scope of destruction brought upon us and sometimes they can make you feel worse; somehow create distance between you and the N parent - incredibly difficult if you live together but necessary. Here's a tough one: let go of feeling responsible for the parent - it is yet another example of role reversal the N has crafted. We are to deliver what they did not as a parent which is just another of their distortions of reality. Ultimately, it helps to believe you have the right to survive. Care for yourself regardless of others' judgements of the situation and even though you have been programmed not to. With you in spirit....

Thank you all for sharing your experiences .. so much like mine. My 91 year old dad has always been selfish, irresponsible and malicious. But somehow the narcissist that he his knows exactly how to manipulate and push the right buttons. Yesterday Just days after I was discharged from the hospital for a stress related intestinal attack I got a call from him (in a nursing home finally) blasting me about putting him there and screaming the most vicious racial attacks about the staff. I hung up on him and he called my brother at work and then my sister in law at her job. I called the nurse back and apologized for the verbal abuse she is dealing with. I don't understand why I never cut the cord. I have spent hundreds of hours getting him health services and given him thousands of dollars as he drank away every penny he ever made. Like all of you - no appreciation just more grief. This may be the time to walk away .. my health and sanity are too important. I agree with those who say we are damaged for life .. despite therapy, a wonderful husband and kids, there are wounds that don't heal. Take good care of yourselves .. walks in the woods or beach, poetry, coffee with good friends, a day off when you're just spent. We all have a bond here.

Finally....a label for my torture. I find pieces of my truth in all of these answers. Thank you all for the brutal honesty. In self reflection I agree that survivors from a narcissist abuser have significant challenges. One realization that changed perspectives for me ....knowing that it is impossible to please some one who expects you to give them exactly what they want....but they don't know what they want....or when on the occasion that you meet their expectations.....the expectations change and often in a drastic manner. It is like watching a dog chase its tail and knowing he will never catch it. I had to separate myself from that world to survive and to salvage any healthy relationship I had managed retain. Unfortunately for me, I let my since of duty overcome my sense of survival and I find myself back in a turmoil. Now I must remind myself daily.... Boundaries.....they are essential... and ...my self worth!!.......does not hinge on my mothers opinion.......Thank you all.

Crepella save yourself!!!
Keeping one's life in an even keel after first growing up with a narcissistic parent, then establishing and maintaining healthy boundaries takes a great deal of energy. I didn't get it right the first time......nor the 30th time...and it will be a work in progress for my entire lifetime. As a child I would often escape into the world of books: I wasn't allowed out of the house, no one was allowed to come into our apartment and I had no friends or anyone to confide in. My days were highly structured to go to school, look after two siblings (one her favorite, the youngerone was a punching bag for the first, and, he and usually were scapegoats for all that was wrong in our family) to take care of the household chores she didn't feel she "should have" to do, nor assign responsibility to my younger brothers for anything either. My complaining to my dad or grandfather only got me more misery so I learned early to just shut up, take the verbal and physical abuse while vowing to get out of there as soon as I could. I moved out on my 18th birthday and never returned home even for a night.
My mother and I "would get along" (her term) as long as I didn't bring up things from the past - things that I was still working through with a therapist and attempting to have the much needed dialogue with her. Those attempts always ended in escalating arguments, accusations, threats etc until we just didn't talk to each other. Then we would go for years without communication or very limited short phone calls a few times a year. Periodically we would attempt to re-establish some in-person communication but it was always superficial and emotionally draining for me to maintain a relationship that didn't begin to meet any needs for me.
I kept my kids away from her once they were in school as I didn't want them to get sucked into the drama with her. Fortunately after she remarried, they moved several hours away so seeing her in person was rare.
My stepfather died a few years ago and I realized too late he was being subjected to her nasty ways but he didn't want me to intervene on his behalf as it "would just make things worse for him". I regret not confronting her then because once the funeral was over she started complaining about how much time energy and effort the last year of his life took from her! She had become more of a recluse in the last several years, highly suspicious of the people living in the small town where she still lives - always on guard to make sure "no one knows her business". As a result she would order him to go to the grocery store, pharmacy etc, even when he wasn't feeling his best. On a couple occasions I had traveled there to accompany each of them to their doctor appointments to get a first hand report of what each of their health issues were, and his was clearly more serious due to the acute nature vs her chronic health issues. We haven't spoken since (fours years now); months go by and she doesn't even cross my mind - I no longer feel guilty that I cut her out for good because my life is so much better without her constant negative energy.
Somehow you need to find the your inner strength to establish and keep firm boundaries with your mother or your own life is very much at risk - I'm not being melodramatic here: there is a very real mental and physical toll that you endure. Is your quality of life/potentially shortened life expectancy really worth maintaining this relationship?

Reading Crepellas' submission and the subsequent comments was like receiving a gift ..... an honest place to talk about the crap my Mother and her narcissic ways has dragged me through my whole life.
At 51 I am just realizing that I can choose to no longer be a victim, as a child and young adult that was not possible for me. Narcissism is complex and hard to deal with, my Mother started when I was 3 or 4 telling me how she almost died giving birth to me, I have heard that story countless times, she has always said she was dying with some ailment or other and threatened to kill herself numerous times ... being an only child and adoring my Mother made me feel so insecure.
Now at 82 she is still the same, I am all she has so I do visit her regularly and do everything I need to do for her but to be honest I am looking forward to the day she passes away, and i will be free,caring for someone like this is exhaustive.

I too have lived with this. My Dad was an enabler to it (but he's gone now). I have health issues and am trying to get Social Security disability. If that happens, I will have her placed in LTC (she has Alzheimer's), sell her house, and get out of Dodge. We don't deserve this. My brother was very hurt by her behavior, but he has walked away from helping me in any way. Bless us all for what we've had to deal with.

Although I have read tons about Borderline Personality Disorder, Narcissism, Vampire Parents, etc., at 62 I still do not feel real. Somehow I managed a career but always felt I'd be fired for "impostoring." My daily sensibilities are swayed by the emotions of whomever I am with, as I am not real. I have been in therapy for years. I have nighmares of my Mom's face taking up 1/2 the sky, of the fright she inflicted, of my need to hide and observe and analyze everything. With my dear, understanding psychologist husband -- of an awareness that I will never be able to fully share myself as a full human being. That people scoff when you share that you suffer lifelong PTSD from a parent. And now neuroscience is revealing that child abuse does indeed permanently alter the brain. See
http://daily.psychotherapynetworker.org/daily/trauma/the-ace-studies-calculating-the-effects-of-child-abuse/
If the link doesn't open, just Googe Ace Studies and Child Abuse. We are different, perhaps like Brad Pitt's Tristan in Legends of the Fall -- between worlds. I saw Carrie (the movie) as a role model because actually went to a prom. Thank you all for sharing, I wish you lived in my town and we all knew each other!

Finding this discussion finally gives me a sigh of relief. Thank you all for your insight and the comfort you each provide to others in the same situation. In my case, I am an only child and the "filling" getting smashed in the middle of a narcissistic "sandwich." My mother is turning 90, my daughter is in her forties, and I am the primary target of all their anger, rage, blame and resentment. They both choose to be estranged from my son since he doesn't live his life the way they think he should. When I draw the line at my mother blaming me for my dad (who died almost three decades ago) loving me more than her—or wanting to listen to intimate details of her "unsatisfying" life with him—I'm accused of not wanting to "know" her. As a result, she threatens to "do what she has to do," referring to making changes to her will. Daughter is doing her best to keep me alienated from my 3 grandchildren. The younger kids don't understand why they can't visit anymore since I was their full-time childcare provider and they stayed with me every weekend for most of their lives. Youngest even said she'd rather return all of her Christmas gifts and get coal if it meant she could visit me again. This disorder has completely destroyed my family and taken over my life. After each contact with my mother, it takes me days to recover and regain my positive attitude. If anyone has advice about surviving while caring for a narcissistic parent when there are others in the family with the same disorder, it would be welcomed. If not, it just felt good to find and vent to people who understand. It's now time to call mom and finalize plans for her birthday celebration. I'll check back on this site later, no doubt once again temporarily defeated after the call.

I've got a narcissistic mother, too. She's 88 and post stroke. I've lived my entire (still) never being good enough for her perfectionistic, OCD standards. She is the most non-compliant person on the planet. She's smarter than doctors and the rest of her family, so she knows better what to do with her health and life. You can't tell her a da** thing. Thankfully my sister lives nearer and copes with her. I've learned with the help of a good therapist and pysch drugs to tune her out when she's on a tear. I live 250 miles away and will only call once a week to check in. I'm a healthcare professional, so just tell my sister the scoop and let her handle it. Both of us sisters tell the docs what is the truth and going on, then let them be the heavy in the soap opera. If doc says your mom can't go home, let him tell her in no uncertain terms. Then you can give her the sympathy against "that mean old doctor". If that doesn't work, make the other staff do the heavy for you. Also, I'm sorry to say, you'll probably never get acknowledged by your mom so don't hold your breath. Narcissistic people just can't see anybody but themselves. You probably need to get therapy for yourself, so you can realize that the sky isn't falling the way your mom says it is. Go ahead and change your phone number now. Give it to the staff with strict instructions not to give it to mom. Then you call her when it is convenient &/or necessary. That helps set the boundaries, which we narcissius survivors are poor at doing.

50s you've opened my eyes with your comment about not being able to share yourself as I've always been that way, recoiling in almost horror if a human gets in my space and tries to hug or touch me. The only "people" I truly trust are my beloved dogs.

And I just changed my phone number and made it unpublished to avoid the screaming tantrum phone calls which were making me ill.

50schild - thanks for the link. I know I have PTSD from childhood and I have always suspected a link between the prolonged stress and chronic fatigue. Thankfully when I was very young - preschool - I realised that something was very wrong and that it wasn't me. Not that that spared me from a lot of grief but it helped. My mother is now in a mental hospital, the drug that she refuses to take is being concealed in her juice, with my agreement, they are testing her thoroughly and will find the best facility available - her ALF may no longer work - and she will be give the drug whether she wants it or not. I just hope it works as well as it did for the short while she took it last summer. If not I think they will find something that works.

oh man aren't we all a lot hahaha. I was just reading an fantasizing about never seeing her ever again...oh the relief....no more hiding from the phone or the guilt or lying about sneaking away on vacation without her cause she NEVER gets to go anywhere nice. I wish I had the nerve to just disappear from her life. lotuslily that message made me sooooo happy....you are getting towards the light with this thing. Mine is only 75 she will probably live about 200 more years. She has made a tangled mess lately with her yelly mouth and hurting peoples feelings and insults...so...but for the first time... it's NOT MY PROBLEM. I dont even want to HEAR her twisted side of the story :) you made the problem you are so goddamn smart and talented and wise and clean and better than everyone else...YOU figure out the solution heh heh.

Mbvargo, Indeed. :)

There are similarities in my life to all the responses I have read. As a small child I used to look behind doors and in closets to see where the bad mommy had hidden my real mommy. I recognized early on that she always wanted to get people on her side, and people like this will do anything to accomplish that. My mother is a master at using a partial truth. Flashing forward through 40 years of this, she became so twisted and convoluted that I don't think she can keep track of all the Machiavellian manipulations anymore. She was pissed at me one day when I had to hang up the phone because of an EXPLOSION in my house. I called her back 7 minutes later, and she had already left a phone message that she didn't ever want to hear from "any of you people" again. That was so ridiculous that I tried to talk to her several times, but she wasn't interested. I must have poked something that let her see I was onto her. I'm also not that good at sucking up. She was notorious for slamming down the phone, and I told her that was unforgivably rude and not to ever do that again. That was the first thing I ever did to stop her bullying. Eventually I stopped trying to reunite because my husband said, "Do you realize how much more peaceful things are without your mother on your back all the time?" He was right. I talked to a psychologist a number of times and accepted the situation. I have read those books about narcissistic parents, people with borderline personality disorders, etc., and they all fit. She's been awful her whole life. BUT, she has money, and her sister (who has never known anything else) practically fought me for the "privilege" of taking care of her, and of course being closer to the money. GREAT! They deserve each other. There is no amount of money worth that kind of hell. I thought she might come around when my husband died, but no, and that was ok too, because I didn't need to deal with grief and her at the same time. A normal mother might have been comforting, but some of us don't have one of those. The best thing I can say is to establish any boundaries you can (that seemed to be the starting point), try not to react to the BS or participate in the foolishness, be the adult, and pull yourself away emotionally. It was one thing when she was so hateful to me, but when she was ugly to my daughter, that was it. I think my being onto her ways made me a threat, and the great cosmic gift began unfolding one day. I wish I could say I planned it, but I didn't. However, you may be able to plan your own journey to peace. Remember, it's not your fault. You are allowed to disengage. You can see that care is provided, but from a distance. Take care of yourself and love your other family members. Enjoy breathing normal air. Good luck!

My mother used to call in the mornings when I was getting ready for work. I had morning meetings, so I had to just stop answering the phone. I quit making excuses about being in the shower or drying my hair. I pay for the phone, and I can choose to answer it or not. I didn't tell her this, but it was my first effort at being my own person.