My 81-year-old mom has dementia and is narcissistic. Is anyone else dealing with this?

DubaiDaughter -

I'm putting on my logical hat:

Your mother is narcissistic, manipulative and paranoid.
She hates your husband
Your husband doesn't want to play her game.
You've had enough of the craziness.
Your husband is the most wonderful father.

Sounds to me that your husband is much more important and valuable than whatever your narcissistic mother leaves you in her will. Also, catering to your mother may cost you your husband/marriage and your sanity. Narcissistic mother or wonderful husband/father. The choice is very clear.

Conclusion: Get out while you still have your sanity as Number2son recommends. Leave your mother for the golden daughter to take care of. They seem to like each other. She can inherit everything in exchange for taking care of her mom.

I feel sorry for you DubaiDaughter.i have the same situation. Except my brother was golden boy. And my mom hates my wife , my mom is 89 and dad is 90. I’m 64 and placed them both in memory care. Get out while you still have your sanity. Prayers and hugs !

My 84 year old narsissistic mother hates my husband. She is very paranoid and it is getting worse with dementia. She refuses to go to my son’s college graduation and dinner because my husband will be there. She is asking my son to choose between her or my husband. This is very cruel. She is using her money to try to influence everyone and has threatened to cut me out of the will if I stay with “that guy” who she has called just a sperm donor. My husband is the most wonderful father. But he doesn’t play the game of kissing up to her. She was always mean but with old age she has become manipulative and down right cruel. I have a sister but she is the “golden child” and will do everything to please mom. My sister even went so far as to say, that if my mom sees my husband she might get a heart attack. All of this is “crazy making” and I have had enough!

@Cupofjoe34. I feel so sad for you. Read my story above and be very careful. You’re describing a typical narcissist, compounded by dementia. Since you don’t live close by, there’s a very good chance that your elderly grandmother has naively befriended a stranger (lawyer, caregiver, neighbor) who is poisoning her towards you and convincing her to do foolish things, such as removing you from your joint account, missing appointments or possibly not seeing you at all anymore. She can and will use money to control you unfortunately. I feel your pain, as there is nothing more heartbreaking than being betrayed by a parent. In your grandmother’s case though, she is old and sick and weak. Which makes her the perfect target for a low life scammer and unethical person to take full advantage. To go for guardianship is an expensive painful process as it took us a year to get to trial and we lost anyway. I’m in NJ and every state has different laws. I wish you the best of luck and really hope it turns out differently for you, than it did for my family

I need help. My gram is 93 and turns on me. Blows off appointments and I'm going on disability. I am all she has and decided to remove me from our joint account that we share. So now every month I have to hope she will give me my money. Does anyone know what I can do. She's getting worse and I cry because of what she puts me through she's not just losing her mind but she has always been a narcissist. I'm all she has. I'm 32 and disabled and she 93 and impossible hence lives 20 miles on way from me. Her home is getting very unmanageable and I've cleaned it just for her to start the hoarding process again several times. Her moneys are or were supposed to go to me but she's so mean and secretive I don't know if she's changed anything were where so close and now I'm afraid of her. Is there a way to secure the finances and get her home health care? I'm in ny. Any help would be much appreciated. Jo

I feel so alone in this and now reading all your responses I don't. I wonder if this is an American thing or more of a universal disease. My Mom has ALWAYS been narcissistic with a border line personality disorder. And my Dad is like a battered wife with PTSD. I put Mom in a pych hospital two weeks ago when she flipped out and started beating my Dad . She just got out and has an appointment with a psychiatrist this Thursday. They took her off her Xanex and painkillers as her memory is failing since her Heart attack last September. She says she remembers nothing of the attack, but I don't believe her. She is a master manipulator. I am checking into how to get POA or Guardianship against her will because I now have record of her issues. However, this is time consuming and I work a full time job that is very demanding. I have 3 brothers that try to help but they have lives and families too that require their attention. This blog is the only place where I see people that have the same things going on in their lives. Even my closest friends don't have these issues. Thanks for listening

@ ship2shore - If only there were some way to start a NEW newspaper : "The REAL NEWS". and publish articles like yours, or somehow tell it in a YouTube video and see if it could go viral ..... when you moved away, you should have come to Florida! I would be proud to be your neighbor and friend!!!

Shiptoshore,

A sad story in every way, entirely credible but not shocking considering the train wrecks narcissists cause to get their way. Truly, they will stop at nothing. I'm so sorry for all the grief and loss you and your family have suffered.

@teri0477 Yes, we want to tell our story. I’ve been in touch with AARP and they may be interested. I’ve written a synopsis to many newspapers and magazines. You would be shocked at how many articles have been written about this exact sort of thing in The NY Times, the Washington Post and other reputable papers. For people like us that are in the medical field with few contacts in the journalism field, we have to proceed slowly.

@Myownlife Yes, finally after five long years of suffering and living through that horror, we can begin to move forward. I could not have gotten through it without the love and support of my husband of 36 years and my three children. But in the middle of the horror, when the spiteful article hit the news and my husband was escorted out of his job and the very next day, all our bank accounts went down to $0 (leaving one of my kids with a joint checking account with me without any access to money while on a Navy ship in the Middle East) due to the judgement imposed that was later released - it was unbearable. We endured shallow neighbors whispering and pointing at us and saying “how could someone steal money from their own mother ?” Our close friends would say to us how we never deserved this after the 30+ years of sacrifice and care we gave my mother. Our University Board pf Advisors that we sat on for years (who was named in the vicious untrue article) stood by us too throughout this and we will never forget that, even though they could have easily thrown us both off the board. Many people posted death threats and horrible things about me in the comments cection under article when it went online. We sold the house that we built in 2007, so my mother could live comfortably with us - at a 40% loss and moved away from the town we had lived in for 20 years. My husband found a new position where he is valued and respected after months of being unemployed and now finally I can tell my story, as it should be told. I just have to find a newspaper or magazine that will tell it. Any suggestions how are always appreciated.

@SueC1957 We tried every possible recourse to save my mother from these terrible people. The NJ Law Ethics Committee (lawyers covering for other lawyers), the NJ Ombudsman’s Office (they can only help victims when they are alive and will not get involved or testify with trials), the NJ Attorney General’s Office (not enough clear cut evidence, even tho they stole over $400k of her assets and all her Italian gold jewelry) and the NJ Medicaid Fraud Unit (which also looks into Elder exploitation) and nothing could be done to help. The lawyers still happily practice in NJ and since there are no formal complaints lodged against them, they will probably take advantage of more older people in time. The rogue judge retired and the nursing home was sold because one of the founders was permanently dis-barred from practicing law in NJ due to fraud and cooking the books. We could sue the lawyers but we haven’t been able to find a lawyer that would take our case on contingency so I won’t spend more of our hard-earned money to pay more lawyers. I am in the process of finding a newspaper or organization who would publish our story in a magazine or newspaper but no luck yet. I’m sure those terrible lawyers will try to sue us just to protect their “reputations”. My mother was who lost out - dying all alone after falling out of her bed with no guard rails. Terrible.

Ship2Shore,
There may be no justice here on earth, but I'd hate to be those crooked guys on Judgement Day!!

ohmigosh, ship2shore -- that is an awful story. An incredibly awful experience for you!!! I am so sad for you. At the very least, however, you should write your story as a book....

@ shiptoshore.... Wow, I am so truly sorry of all you went through. I can't begin to imagine how you have survived. And NOW, finally, life begins for you!!! Sending you a big hug!

After reading all of the posts in this thread, I realized that my own mother had all the traits of a narcissist, besides developing dementia. I’m an only child and my mother was Italian-born and in Italy, it is considered shameful to the family to put a parent in a nursing home. When my father passed away in 1988, my husband and I took care of my mother (who was 64 at the time and did not have dementia yet). My dad did everything for her in terms of paperwork and socializing and we were honoring a death bed promise to him in looking out for her. He was always concerned that she would be taken advantage of due to her naïveté. Eventually my mother needed to move close by to us and we took a second mortgage out to build her a small house in town so she could come by to watch her 3 grandchildren while we went to work. I didn’t realize the extent of the narcisistic behavior, as I’m a positive person and just thought my mother’s personality was that she was selfish and self centered. When you don’t have siblings, you don’t really have anyone to bounce things off of. However, once her dementia set in, it comes on slowly and when you’re with that person daily, you don’t realize how bad it has gotten. My mother was stubborn and drove unsafely until her license was taken away after totaling her car. We built a new house with a mother daughter set up and moved her in and took care of selling her house and moving all her belongings in to our home. This is when the nightmare really began. She had temper tantrums, started fighting with the seniors in the town senior group, made trouble on the senior dial a ride bus we had arranged for her to get out. Started telling stories to others she met that we were holding her prisoner in our brand new home (that we built for her convenience). My children were all grown up at this point and she would tell them she was going to kill herself and became very paranoid of everyone, even keeping a rope in her dresser drawer. She had given me the proceeds of the sale of her house since she was living with us and instead of putting it into our family account, I put it in a joint account to ease her mind if something ever happened to me. She made demands on us daily - she wanted to live in nyc in her own apartment, she wanted me to quit my job, she wanted my husband to travel less with his job, she wanted my kids to stay home with her and not go to school or away to college. When you are in the middle of all this, you try to placate and please your parent to keep them calm and happy. But they never are. She became physical with us at times and started wandering around our suburban neighborhood aimlessly if we weren’t home or not bathe for weeks or threatening that she would “embarrass us” if she didn’t get her way or tell people she was poor (which she was not because my father retired on a nice government pension). This all came to a head when she went to the hospital by ambulance due to what she said was a stroke and they could not find what was physically wrong with her. She told a psychiatrist who was called in that she was going to kill herself and burn our house down and after saying this to a few hospital staff members, they committed her to a geriatric psychiatric hospital for observation. She was there for 6 weeks and they diagnosed her as BiPolar 1 and dementia and recommended a memory care facility. She refused all the places we searched for and finally I found a nice place that she agreed to where they would allow her sewing machine there, which sewing was the only thing that relaxed her and it was clean and bright and new. I had to take a few weeks off from work to search all over New Jersey for a place for her because my husband and I were completely unfamiliar with private pay facilities, or Veteran Aid and Attendance, etc. She of course never gave me POA but we always had joint accounts after my father died because she had no idea of how to handle paperwork due to her language difference. The end result was that the facility we chose - Paragon Village told us to not visit for a few weeks until she settled in as they could not keep someone who may try to run or wander. We obliged because we didn’t know and they told us we needed to get legal guardianship, which we started. Instead the facility put her in touch on her second day there with an unethical Italian lawyer across the street who systematically cut the family off from her while convincing her he would not charge her any fees to fight the guardianship. He did in fact charge her over$80k but since she had dementia, she had no idea. The nursing home doubled the rate of her room we contracted with them, without us even knowing during that first month. He even took her to his house for Thanksgiving two weeks after she had fallen at the nursing home and broken her hip and shoulder. It was complete brainwashing of a sick elderly woman. The guardianship trial was a year later and the slimy attorney won her case. She was deemed competent by a rogue judge and his lawyer friend was appointed her conservator. I was forced to turn over the money she GAVE me for living in our house and all savings bond gifts with my name on them over a 30 year period to her lawyer. They turned her completely against our family and we never saw her again. Her last words in the courtroom were “I never agreed with the kids being in the military, so I hope all three die in battle”. My three kids are all officers in the military and attended federal service academies so this was just devastating to hear such a terrible wish/curse. She also said that her lawyer was her new family and he promised he would destroy my family. And that he almost did. Because he had a local reporter write a defamatory untrue arrival in the local paper that we “faked Alzheimer’s” and noted our employers names and various boards we sat on. My husband was a VP in the pharmaceutucal industry and was fired the next day after the article went viral, even tho he was not at all involved with the guardianship. Her attorney carried through her earlier threat of public embarrassment. Our close friends were in shock because they knew of ALL the years of care and sacrifice we made to accommodate my mother. We had no idea that these were traits of Nacissism. Fast forward to three years later and my mother went from 130 pounds to 70 pounds, had numerous unnecessary surgeries (all covered by Medicare) and died all alone, falling out of her hospital bed without rails that her new guardian (the unethical lawyer’s attorney friend became her guardian because they went before a judge without her family knowing) had not made sure she was being cared for properly. It cost my family over $120k in legal fees of our own personal finances to try and get guardianship and get the defamatory article retracted. My husband lost his job (he has an impeccable reputation in the industry) for the first time in his career and no one in our family ever saw my mother in the three years before her death. We weren’t even notified of her death by the nursing home either. Just the kind funeral director called us, even though I was next of kin. We had to prevent the slimy lawyers from attending her funeral too !! There were no other siblings or family looking to get at her money, which was given to me anyway over many years before. The corrupt nursing home and two unethical attorneys basically stole all her jewelry (which I was forced to turn over) and about 40% of her estate was completely lost. Not to mention the psychological pain that it caused to my family. The combination of dementia, BiPolar and Nacissism diagnosis all created the perfect storm for greedy unethical attorneys with no heart to isolate an elderly sick woman and almost destroy our family. It’s amazing we got through it and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone. My mother was denied seeing her three amazing grandchildren graduate and celebrate their accomplishments. We made it through miraculously but this was definitely a case of “what doesn’t kill you, makes you stronger” for our family.

Some very good insights once again, Countrymouse. Thanks for your wisdom.

Countrymouse,

Your last paragraph describes very well the reasons why our mom gets her day-to-day care from non-family members in memory care. Her narcissistic behavior under the influence of dementia has increased dramatically with no signs of letting up. Confused as she is, she hasn't forgotten how to push the buttons. Her family, myself included, would never return "evil for evil", though I confess, like Myownlife, we might joke about it sometimes. I think the humor is a pressure valve from a upbringing so painful it's remarkable we survived at all.

The staff at memory care tell us how "sweet" Mom is (but never is with us). And maybe that's a good thing. The staff aren't her family and don't seem to trigger the narcissistic conduct. Caring for Mom in one of our homes would have been a disaster; one in which her malice would continue unabated and family members would suffer. We feel no guilt for having others care for her. With this arrangement, family can call and visit but hang up or leave when it gets to be "too much," knowing she is lovingly cared for in ways she won't let us do. Mom was the author of this circumstance, not us. In an imperfect world, it's the best we can do.

ThIs is an awesome site!
Thankyou for your shares!

No. It wouldn't be fun. You are NOT the same as your narcissistic parent, and you will derive no pleasure but from the discomfiture, embarrassment, fear, anxiety, rejection and other kinds of emotional hurt you might theoretically be able to inflict on the person you are SUPPOSED to be caring for.

I know this idea is only proposed in jest, I know it's only a diverting fantasy. But actually it raises another point.

Which is: one very important reason it is better to step back and allow somebody else to be your narcissistic parent's main caregiver is that people who are emotionally detached are immune to this kind of button-pressing; so that not only are they not vulnerable, they will also never be tempted, consciously or subconsciously, to get their own back. It's both safer and less painful if the person doing the daily caregiving literally does not love the person being cared for. No fear, no obligation, no guilt.

Cantdance, excellent summation ..... I think it would be fun to use #3 and role reverse :)

grammyteacher, "the focus doesn't turn to themselves at this time"..... it never has been about anyone OTHER than themselves.

Grammyteacher, this disease never robs them of their narcissism, so no we don't have to bow and scrape because they're old and unlearning everyday. Sometimes people go to far for to long and escape is the only survival mechanism that will save you. You maybe weren't raised by a narcissist, or if you were they have you under their thumb or you could understand that empathy for them is a huge waste of effort, unless you're licking their boots they are using them to smash you.

I think the focus turns to themselves at this time. I know how frustrating it is but try to think of what it would be like to be trapped in a body that is unlearning every day. One time in the mid stages, my mom told me that in the morning she was standing in her kitchen, looking out the window (French doors), and she wanted to go outside but couldn't remember how to get out there. It is not just simple memories that go...how scary it must be! This entire disease robs the individual and their family of so much.

Isthisreallyreal,

Excellent article for those wanting to expand their knowledge of narcissistic attitude. I think I can condense it here:

1. There are rules for me and rules for you. They aren't the same rules.
2. My needs, wants, and feelings must be accommodated, regardless of the cost to you or anyone else. Your needs, wants and feelings are of no consequence. I have unique forms of punishment should you forget.
3. Provoking your feelings, especially the negative ones, is one of life's greatest pleasures. How you deal with it is your problem.
4. When life doesn't meet my expectations, you (or someone else) is to blame.

But by all means, read the article! It's excellent!

Isthisrealyreal,
Yes, about a year ago, I ordered a bunch of books from Amazon to learn about it, and it was an eye-opener, just like your article.

Narcissistic dysfunctional families NO way to deal with them unless you bow down. Good article referral from Isthisrealyreal. Narcissist are always entitled. I choose to avoid them.

To all of you precious caregivers trying to live up to the expectations of a narsistic person, please google and read
Psychology today, How narcissists really think. It opened my eyes and has given me the tools to kill the guilt instilled by the narsisist in my life, dad and mom both. Nope, they have been divorced for 35 years, 2 such people can not be married, it is a train wreck, believe me,  the offspring. 

God bless you all and please please please read this.

Jacqueline18, NO!!! You are not alone in your resentment and I want you to get that job you want, PLEASE, do it for me, and I can live vicariously :). This, coming from someone who has a really good job that pays well, but takes so very much out of me.... I had an opportunity before the holidays to go back to another job which pays double, lots of travel involved and I loved it before.... well, I dropped out of going, because of my Mom.... doesn't matter to her at all, thinks my being stressed out with my job and a lot of overtime is fine with her because she is here with me. ..... If I had it to do over and would EVER get the chance of going to the one job, I would leave the next day for it! In a heartbeat.

nanalosthermind, First thing comes to mind is that the "carni" displays classic sociopath behavior, with isolating and alienating.....

Dear help4eachother: Thank you. Your statement about if my sister is that concerned, why doesn't she take her in? Really hit home. My therapist today said almost exactly the words you did. That staying this way I will turn into a bitter guilt-ridden person. My therapist has met my mother one time, two years ago, just listened to her quietly. After she was gone he said she is carrying so much hate and my task is to stay around more positive people. Anyway your answer, with your knowledge as an RN, was extremely helpful. Another helpful truth:Do not ever try to change a lifelong narcissist.

My grandmother is narcissistic and i believe is beginning to develop dementia. Can anyone tell me what the early signs of dementia are through their own experience of witnessing it?

I was as close to my grandmother as I've been with my own mother for my whole life. She was fantastic with me and our family has been pretty close. Over the last couple years, a "carni" for lack of a better term, moved into the remote town where she lives. He is 15 years younger than her (she is 80 he is 65). He immediately turned her against her family and she now bizarrely seems to take pleasure in trying to attack us.. its a really weird situation and sadly we don't speak as a result of it which has been very difficult for me and my mom and dad to process. She seems to go through moods or states that range primarily from anger and rage to depression. We once had a close family, its now toast. This situation has sent everyone to their corner, finger pointing.

Is there any hope for this situation? Will she come to her senses or will she double down on her crazy behavior? Any advice on how to deal with this parasite in her life who's only goal is to take her money and assets? Theres near 0 chance of us intervening legally since nothing illegal has technically happened.

thank you