My 81-year-old mom has dementia and is narcissistic. Is anyone else dealing with this?

Are you still dealing with this? I have the exact situation. "Challenging" doesn't even identify the problem. The disease exacerbates the narcissism. I will wait to hear back to post more.

Another ACON (Adult Child of a Narcissist) made worse by dementia. It took a 12 Step Program and group therapy to get a handle on this combination.

Sadly, kids of N's have usually been so well programmed by adulthood that we don't know how to set boundaries and if not being made to feel guilty by our N parent, we do quite a good job of feeling guilty ourselves... and resentful of the caregiving... and care TAKING to try to gain control.

It is a vicious cycle, but there IS hope. The support here is INVALUABLE, and gradually taking little areas of control and rewarding self for the small victories becomes crucial.

Remember to "Give yourself grace" . Caregiving ain't easy in general but add Narcissism and it's a whole new ball game.

It's your house and your rules, and if she doesn't like it then she could be moved elsewhere. It sounds to me like you're just going to have to stop catering to her. I haven't dealt with both traits in one single person, but I have dealt with a person who developed dementia and someone else who was narcissistic. Both of them need a structure that won't cater to their demands, especially the narcissist who thinks of no one but themselves and doesn't care about the needs of others.

The best way to deal with a narcissist is to not give in no matter how hard they push, left (just push back much harder). at some point they'll start realizing you're not giving in and they'll start to be more cooperative and considerate. As for the dementia part though, I'm not sure there's going to be much you can do about that except to keep reinforcing your house rules and just not giving in for the narcissistic part of that person

My father is a compulsive narcissist. His dementia is to the point that he has no short term memory. He has no concept of time and demands that everything be done right now. I have found that just saying I will get it done "soon" alleviated the pressure. Many times he forgets what he asked for. My mother, on the other hand, stresses herself out to make sure she takes care of the perceived need immediately and then resents his demands. He has no regards for anyones needs and wants other than his own. The word demented means crazy. He is mentally ill and has no grasp of reality. Soon and later are words that have helped me. The other one is " I don't know". Even if I know the answer, it is likely that it won't be understood so, "I don't know" is my greatest tool.

I thank God for Aging care website! you guys help so much!, when you think you are alone, and you are not, and no one understands but another caregiver!

Since my enlightenment, I began to remember that I grew up with a narcissist who could never be pleased neither from husband (my father) nor children. Mom's friends were used until she became bored with them.

Now at 86 everyone has died on her, and I am the only one left and not too delighted with that reality. I have done all the legwork to find appropriate facilities and move her there again and again. She hates every place and everyone there.

I now care that she is safe, clean, and fed. Entertaining her and making her happy is no longer my priority.  I will do what seems unstressful and appropriate -- for me.   Maybe I'm a chip off the old block.

I am going through the same thing. The difference now is that when she would lie to me about things, she could maintain the lie, but now that she cannot remember what she has already said...well, it makes me understand why I'm so screwed up. She will say absolutely anything to make a point or win an argument. It is amazingly horrible. And as a result, I am horribly honest, to the point of it being a hardship, so her lies just confuse and astound me...good luck, it isn't easy...

Wow, old age, dementia and being narccistic.....what on earth are you doing taking care of someone like this? Forget what it was like in the past. This is now. When someone acts badly and it starts to wear on you and is destroying your life and who you are, well - then get smart. Do NOT allow them to live with you or around you any longer. Find some way, like Medicaid if there is little money, to get them into a facility BEFORE you are destroyed. No one is worth having this done to them - no matter how much you love them. You do NOT deserve this from anyone - ever!

Rather harsh Riley but I certainly agree, if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.
Unfortunately someone has to care for these poor souls.
Can You stop being narccisistic? I don't know the answer to that but I do know there is nothing you can do to prevent dementia. Well maybe keeping away from alcohol might help.
Maybe being mean and cruel was something you learnt at your mother's knee. Again I don't know.
Here I agree with Riley that you have, I said have ,not need, to detach yourself and by that do not let anyone put you in the position of being chained to a narccisitic parent in the first place. You have known them all your life so you know what they are capable of. They are not going to change into sweet old grandmas and grandpas just because they are over 80. It does not happen. By all mean continue to make sure they are properly taken care of and if needed help out financially but don't give up your life. Start asking questions before they become dependent. Ask how they are going to manage when they get old. Have they saved for retirement or lived paycheck to paycheck. No one is going to come and forcibly drag you to your parents home. Check your guilt at the door. Don't fall for the "all I have done for you" they choose to have children and were obligated to raise them. Live up to your responsibilities but don't destroy your life and the lives of those around you.

Personally I don't care why people are narccisists or why they have dementia. If their behavior is difficult, obnoxious, and abusive - THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO BE AROUND YOU. Find a way immediately to remove them from the presence of you in their lives. These actions will destroy YOU. YOU OWE THEM NOTHING IF THEY BEHAVE THIS WAY. Out - there is the door.

I don't know how to say this "kindly" so I will say what I must say. There comes a point in life when people become nasty, abrasive, abusive, etc. If at first you try everything diplomatically and peacefully to make them stop and "behave" and nothing works, then YOU must be strong enough to walk away. You owe people like this NOTHING. Remember, try everything first because it is the right thing to do but when it persists and does not stop, ask if you want to be a fool and a martyr and put up with it or if you want peace and a chance to live your own life as it should be lived. I am sure you know the answer and you will make the choice to move on. There is sadly no other solution - you can't stop people like this and they will eventually succeed in destroying YOU.

Very difficult situation for me! Mom and Dad both have dementia and my Dad is delirious which is so horrible! He completely changed in 2 months when he broke his hip! Had 2 UTI became septic and has been bad ever since! For some reason he blames me for everything! We were so close and best friends and now he hates me! Very upsetting! My Mom has gotten so much worse with her dementia and with living with my Dad in assisted living she is so nasty and complains constantly! She will scream really loud and act crazy! She seems to be so jealous of all the care Dad is getting. She calls me everyday asking me to take her out of this prison. She has always been soo self centered and now she is never happy. I just don't know what to do. They can't afford to be separated. Any comments?

I should add that there are some relationships like you're describing that you absolutely must abandon and move on without them. I had to end up abandoning my abusive parents, they were actually murderers and I had no choice but to leave and not look back. You said yourself this is a toxic relationship and that it was negatively affecting you, take the hint and walk away and never look back like I had to. Had I not abandoned my drunken abusers, I wouldn't be here today and live to tell it

Narcissistic behavior? Now that's where I draw the line. I would highly recommend just put her in a facility and walk away. There are professionals in there who know how to deal with these kinds of people you're describing because these kinds of people are too toxic to deal with

The Bible says to honor your mother and father. And do not despise your mother in her old age. I have honored my parents my whole life, unlike my brother who stole from my dad and disrespected him in his old age. My dad is very thankful for anything done to help him and is a joy to be with him in his elder years.i help them all I can. But I struggle with not despising my mom in her old age. I was more than a handful in my early years and I put my mom through a lot. I guess this is payback, put yourself in their shoes, how frightening it must be for them , their brain isn't working right and they are wearing down in their old age.
This forum has helped me much, just knowing that there are many going through the same problems.Try to do the best you can for mom and dad, and what's best for them. That's all we can do .i will pray for everyone on this forum and ask that God will help you all through these tough times. The Good Lord never gives us more than we can handle. Cast all your cares on Him and He will guide you.

It must make you want to throttle her, tbstrong. I'm so sorry she's like this with you. How are you coping with it?

My mom is a narcissist as well and blind sides me every time she has an issue with me. We'll go along just fine on my weekend day with her to do errands, bills, etc. and then all of a sudden - her new thing right now --bring up the fact that I should return the coins I took from her when they were cashed in at the coin counting machine. Doesn't matter that I got other coins back from the till that were redeemed because they didn't fit in the coin machine nor that I got the asst manager and the coin machine guy to try and retrieve the other coins for me but couldn't. No, she insists I took money out of my own pocket to give to her to pretend all the coins were cashed when she "knows you took those coins for yourself because you know they're worth more and you're trying to fool me and you should bring them back". No matter how much or how many times I tell her I didn't take her money, that they went in the machine and they're long gone now from a few months ago, she won't believe me. And just when I think she's accepted my answer, the same one I've been giving to her for months, she'll bring it up again. I've always been the one she blames for whatever goes wrong, while my now-passed sister was the golden one. She is the picture of loveliness and kindness to others, but she is only that way to me under her conditions, whatever those are.  She's lived her whole in denial about many things and claims to know me, that I haven't changed since I was 20 years old, and never asks me anything about my dreams and goals in life.  If she did, she'd put me down for them anyway.

I'm taking care of someone that wasn't nice to me 30 years back. She is nice many times and then she can get difficult. I don't take anything from her seriously. I don't care who she was. She is a person with dementia now. Not responsible anymore for her actions or judgment. She can not do real wrong in my mind, since she can't tell right from wrong. To help her sleep, we put her in Trazadone and she is actually a lot more mellow. Her sister, my mom in law,  got so bad she would hit us and chase us, eventually too, the doctors find a good tranquilizer. My advice, forget about the past, this is not the same person.
This is a person that needs us. Do not take care of these people if you have animosity towards them, that would be a recipe for disaster. Ask for some one to help you , or take them to a rest home.

You promised your father that you would make sure your mother was taken care of.

Where in the fine print does it say that you have to do the actual care taking?

And what have your sisters-in-law ever done to deserve your mother?

Research facilities, and find a good one for your mother. Place her. Once she is out of your face, you may find it very much easier to show her the love you would like to feel for her.

I am a middle age daughter of a very mean spirited mother close to ninety years old. My father had a very long illness and I never left his side. Throughout his illness he asked me to make sure my mother was taken care of. He had open heart surgery, cancer, strokes, dementia and always thought of her. Except for the dementia, she has had all the same sicknesses but she has always thought of herself first. To her everybody is a lyer,cheat,tramp,useless,stupid,garbage etc. even those in her family. You are only as good as your last encounter with her. She was left property rich by my father, but money poor. She lives with my husband, myself and an adult son of mine. She is miserable and ungrateful to all. Nothing tastes right, everything is ugly, it is too cold it is too hot, the house is too small, even though she has her own room. She hates my son's wife and told me if they come for the holidays she is going to leave. I told her never to ask me to choose between her and my sons because she will always lose. She has alienated all her sons because of their spouses. I want to show her love, but she is constantly beating me down. Yet she is the picture of loveliness when she wants to be. My father died in front of a brother and myself and my mother, we all loved him dearly, but in her retelling of his last moments suddenly she is alone with him. I get so mad, because she treated him terribly almost abusively when he left the hospital. She was mean , making fun of him for wearing diapers, for not chewing for forgetting things, I hated her for it and told her so. But I had to keep my promise to my father so I brought her to my home and I can't take much more of this. I have asked my brothers to take her, that is how desperate I am now. I feel so guilty.

Is anyone married to a husband who has frontal lobe dementia, suffers from delusions, paranoia and narcissism on steroids? I was finally able to get him tested but he refuses to be tested further or take any medications! I would appreciate any suggestions.

Youngc, your parents are living at an ALF, are they? If so, I'd speak in confidence to the care team. What you're looking for is intervention from a counsellor in cahoots with the activities director to winkle your father away from your mother's company and give him something else to compare it with. If he spends more time with people who are kind and pleasant, his wife's relentless attacks will stop being day to day normality for him and he may then be able to choose to join in activities that will give him respite - even if it's only sitting in a TV lounge and watching a ball game.

You are right to believe that your mother would react against this. That's what they do - jerk the leash, so to speak. But here's the thing. Emotional abuse is abuse. Your parents are in an ALF. She can't just treat him as she pleases because other people DO have not only the right but also a responsibility, a duty of care, to intervene.

Where they go as a couple from there... Mm. What would you like to see happen?

Anyway. I should ask the care team for advice. At the very least, you can be certain they will have seen it before - your father won't be the first person they've cared for whose main abuser is a beloved spouse.

The worst part about my mother's condition is how it affects my dad. He has spoiled her all of her life and now that he is 95 and can't do anything for her she emotionally abuses him. It breaks my heart to see him treated this way! She tells him what a lousy husband he's been, how she's "done" with him, that he needs to be in a nursing home, etc... She tells me no one at the assisted living facility want anything to do with them because of him and tells him the same. He is the sweetest man and does not deserve this. He loves her (though I don't understand why) and wants to get her help but she doesn't think there's anything wrong with her. If I were to say anything to her, it would only make her angry and strike out at my dad. She used to attack me and tell me what an awful daughter I was, but I told her I wasn't going to take the abuse any more. Now she focuses all of her rage on my dad, who has no escape from her. Dad is too weak physically/mentally/emotionally to handle this. It breaks my heart to see him have to live with this everyday. Any advice?

I'm not happy for all the situations that each of you are going through, but I'm relieved to know that there's someone else out there that knows what having narcissistic parents is like.
My dad, 77, is the typical narcissist; steamroller, swearing through clenched teeth when not getting his way or a reaction, zero self-reflection, absentee father, blames my mother and her mother (even after her passing) for all his life's problems. And, he'll switch his role to victim to get attention, switching back and forth from aggressor to victim. So weird.

My mother, 75, not so typical narcissist, but still has tried to sabotage my and my siblings independence since we were teenagers, needs co-dependency, plays victim and exaggerates stories to garner sympathy, while having a long history of letting us kids know that we've never measured up (such as all three of us kids have managed to do well in life, but mom saying "too bad you didn't do xyz, you would've made a great xyz"-not acknowledging or saying we're good at what we actually do in real life).

With age, dad has gotten somewhat worse, mother somewhat better. They divorced after 25 years of marriage in about 1989
and never remarried.

Comically I've spent most of my childhood trying to decide who I'm going to feel the most sorry for and as an adult it's so easy to get fed up with their lack of personal accountability.

Since their divorce they've lived apart, but continued a companionship that I've never understood, but never interfered with as it's not my business. Recently, my dad lost his apartment, knowing full well that this was coming, without making any effort to find another place, knowing that my mom would take him in to "keep him off the street", much to the protest of me and my sister.
After he moved in with my mom, their dysfunction has continued, each with their sob story and finger pointing.
I've excused myself from the table so-to-speak, as I've seen this movie before.

All of you please stay strong. Please remember to have a sense of humor, as this can deliver you from dark places! Enlist the help of others and take care of yourself! There is always another option. It is never do or die!

Living1pain....OH my...My guess is you are in a state with filial responsibility laws. POSSIBLY if there is proof of the abuse you have an out with most of the states that have these laws, and also they typically do not require children to pay when they cannot afford it. Possibly you can find out if she qualifies for Medicaid to get home care or even facility care if she needs it. If you have POA it would be legitimate to use some of her funds to do an estate planner or eldercare law consult to find out what the realistic options are. How did APS get involved in the first place? That might hold an important clue as to what needs to happen and what can happen to make this bearable for you now. As you probably know, APS can't judge who is worthy and unworthy of support - their obligation is to find support for people who cannot manage for themselves.

More important than ANY of that though - if you are feeling suicidal, call a hotline, and get yourself help.

Why can Adult Protrctive Service, make me take care of my narssicostic mother. She sent me away every year to my grandparents, never loved me belittled me, extored money. Told me to leave my husband. I had a breakdown 4 years ago when my huband died, I was on life suport, and she told me I needed to pay ger $300. I have just got my life together and only working part time. APS now says I need to support a horrible person. I only mske 300 and I pay a sitter 140. I am going broke, am feeling sudicial. I am only child, how far can the APS go. What can I do?

my mum is now in a nursing home with dementia and npdim being accused of domestic violence with her as her only carer the iothers whom never helped want her estate and money ive been her scape goat all my life . she refers to me as her slave or maid god be with us all

(((((sarah))))) What a horrible situation. I have a sister who undermines me too and I cut contact with her, There are a number of threads dealing with narcissistic mothers and selfish dysfunctional siblings. Here is a link to a current one
https://www.agingcare.com/questions/advice-dealing-with-a-narcissistic-mother-192862.htm?cpage=0&cm=571632#571632

You can do a search on this site using the box in the upper right of the page,

Once your situation starts affecting your heath you really need to make some changes. I stopped answering the phone to my mother and my sister when they became more abusive. Honestly I say let it ring and eventually she will give up - or see of there is a way to block her calls and rely on the staff of the ALF to call you if you are needed. Maybe your work could change your phone number and then give it only to the staff of the ALF - not to your mother or sibs. Mother and my sister do not call me any more but the staff of her ALF do occasionally as needed. You don't mention what your mum's medical condition is. Does she have dementia or a personality disorder? You can step down as POA - you do not have to do it. Is she still considered competent - if so she can find someone else to do it. I don't understand why you think your brother would take you to court to contest your mother's will. She made it - you didn't. Are you executor as well?? You can step down from that too if need be. My sister has made it known to some family that she intends to get all the inheritance, She will not lift a finger to help but has meddled. I suspect if she thinks she has a chance she would take me to court over the inheritance or not doing a good job as POA or whatever. I will hire someone to do the job of executor so she cannot come after me and that will be paid by my mother's estate.

It sounds like your family is bullying you. If you feel you need to answer the phone to them sometimes do not allow an abusive conversation to continue - tell them you will not continue this conversation but will talk to the later when they can be more pleasant. and hang up. I would stop bringing your mother home on the weekends until she stops calling you at work. You do have some leverage. If she gets abusive when she is visiting you - take her back immediately and/ or and tell her she cannot visit unless she is pleasant and respectful to you and your husband and then stick to that. She is acting like a spoiled brat. You really have to treat her as you would a willful child.

You wrote "I cannot please her no matter how hard I try" That is absolutely right - you cannot please her no matter what you do, so stop trying. My mother s like that - the more you do for her the less she respects you and the more demands she makes and the more critical she becomes.

Please learn about setting boundaries and applying consequences and also about detaching. There are many good articles and books on narcissistic mothers, walking in eggshells, codependency and so on. You need to detach for your mental and physical health. Keep coming here and read about others who have dealt with and are dealing with these problems in their dysfunctional families. Sometimes we have to make changes for our own protection and survival. Good luck to you and blessings.

I can truly sympathize with everyone in the forum dealing with an aging narcisistic parent with dementia. My Mom will be 88 on New Years Day. I have three other siblings but I am the only one that helps. My family is splintered, shredded beyond repair. nobody really wants a relationship with my Mom or me since I was forced to be her power of attorney. I not only have to deal with my moms accusations of me stealing her money but have also had to deal with a sister trying to take moms money for herself and a brother threatening to sue and contest moms will as soon as she dies. A bother who sends her a card once a year and hasnt lifted a finger to help her twenty plus years. Mom is in the nicest assisted living facility in the area and I get her every Sunday do she can come to my house. I cannot please her no matter how hard I try. She wants to live with us but I do not have a handicapped accessible home. She consistently tells me I hate her and that it is my fault she is in the facility. I threw her in jail and now she can't get out. My sister fortifies my mothers paranoia by sending her the documents that I signed making me power of attorney. I asked that my sister be joint poa but she would not do it. I get consistently abused by Mom, verbally berated. She calls my husband an alcoholic and tells him there are some things she could tell him about me. My husband has put up with this now for nearly 20 years. My marriage is suffering. I get no support from family. The sister I thought was supportive turned on me right after I gave her my car and she had taken everything she wanted of worth fom my moms home. My mom seldom talks to her now. My sister once told me my loving brother asked her to testify when he contests moms will. So I am looking forward to bring dragged into court someday in the future after a life full of emotionall abuse. If it wasn't for the love of my husband, I would surely be dead. My health is starting to suffer and I can no longer tolerate the situation. My mom will ring my phone every two minutes at work until I call her back. The situation has become unbearable. Sorry to sound so depressing. I could use any advice that anybody has in dealing with this situation. Thanks for listening.

Golden23 I imagine you're right. This really has led me to reassess my entire childhood.