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We have guardianship over my mother. Of course, she constantly tries to say lies about me now to my wife. These statements hurt. I told you folks earlier that my mother had amassed $55,000 in debt - which I was able to settle btw. It's cleared up. She calls my wife in various stages of hostility, contriteness, friendliness. This time, she was friendly and wants my wife to take her shopping. She got my wife to agree, but then said that she (my mother) wracked up $55,000 in debt to purchase a house in my name - which is a lie. I'm trying very hard to let this stuff "roll off " and "detatch", but this time, it just sat wrong. I have asked my wife to remind my mother that if she hears lies about me or her finances, she (my wife) won't help her or interact with her. I said to my wife that I don't want to tell her what to do, but I really needed some defense here, and I don't think I got it. Any input?

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We can't put any faith in anything that anyone with dementia says. Is your mom lying? Is it the dementia? Who knows? But anything your mom says about you or your wife or your siblings or anyone for that matter should be taken with a grain of salt. Someone who has dementia is not a reliable source of information. Discussing pertinent information with someone who has dementia is useless as well. That person may take a tiny little kernel of what you said and weave an entire false story around it and then everyone gets upset, feelings get hurt, and it turns into a mess. The only defense is to chalk it up to the dementia and not pay any attention to it. It's part of the illness. You know what the truth is. Your wife knows what the truth is. Your mom's unreliable two cents shouldn't be a consideration.
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Hugedoof; I'm sorry that your mom has this terrible disease. The sad truth is that her brain is very broken. I saw a CT scan of my mom's brain this summer; there's more hole than brain at this point, and it gave me a great visual for why she can't reason anymore. Think of it this way; your mom, back in the day, was savy about her money, kept track of it, got careless due to the dementia and amassed $55,000 in debt. She remembers that figure and nothing else. What few "reasoning" brain cells she has left are trying to make sense of that number. You are there; it must be because of YOU! Sad to say, but the caregiver who is in the line of fire is often the person who is accused of all sorts of things. Your mother is not lying; your mom needs your love. I assume that you wife knows that there is no truth to these accusations, so don't stress about them. The reasoning part of Mom's brain is no longer there. Re-direct her when she gets like this, agree with her, don't challenge her.
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You are holding your mother responsible for what she says, and you are doing so in spite of your understanding that your mother has dementia. You are being utterly unreasonable, and you are trying to insist that your wife follows suit. Stop it.
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Just out of curiosity, why is your wife subjecting herself to being in the middle? I, too, have a FIL and MIL in various stages of dementia. For the longest time I felt so challenged by not helping more. However, when the lies began, I realized that being a major player, other than supporting my husband (which hasn't gone well either) was the best posturing for all.

Here is the lie that blasted me. I walked in from church to where my husband was with his mother at her home. My husband said to me "we need you to clear up something that mom told me. Did my brother make a pass at you at dinner the other night?" It was the first time that we had seen his brother and wife in years. Personalities kept amicable family gatherings from happening. And MIL's saying that could have done permanent damage to the relationship. I merely could respond "not to my knowledge". I asked why she thought that. Apparently, FIL and MIL saw the brother talking to me and got that impression. She did apologize.

You and your wife need to keep your relationship solid and not let your mother's condition come between you.
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Countrymouse - we need to be sensitive to the point that those posting carry much that we are not aware of. It takes some a lifetime to sort through the challenges of family dynamics. It appears as though his wife has her own will and you telling him to stop it may not be as easy as you are making it sound.
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Olivia, I certainly agree that we do not know what feelings may be stirred up by the incidents people report; and I probably should have explained better.

I do NOT blame H for feeling hurt by his mother's false accusations. Of course he does, it is natural to feel hurt if we are slandered or misjudged. What is unreasonable is to blame her for her failure to understand, and to punish her for false accusations. What next? If she forgets her DIL's name, should the DIL refuse to talk to her until she makes the effort to remember it? If she becomes incontinent, should she be made to take cold baths until she learns to control her bowel movements?

H's mother has got it wrong, in a way that feels insulting and hurtful; but she has got it wrong because she has dementia. The truth of the financial situation should be explained to her patiently and repeatedly; and if that doesn't work then she needs to be diverted to a different subject. But to refuse to visit her, to ask his wife to stay away, will not correct his mother's misunderstanding. It is cruel and unreasonable to punish her for something she cannot help.
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Physical issues you can deal with but there's no reasoning with someone whose mind is blowing in the wind.
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All: Massachusetts requires a "co-guardian" in these cases; and normally it is a spouse. @countrymouse: we've already dealt with my mother's stroke, congestive heart failure, a multitude of other health problems, forgetfulness, inability to process simple logic, incontinence, financial disaster, medication (pills) all over the house, poopy tissues in the bed, poop in bed, peeing in vases and suitcases, defacating in clothes and the shower, open cans of wet catfood in her clothes and furniture drawers, mixing poop with make-up and eye-liner - conjunctivitis; elopement plots to jump the nursing home - shall I go on? The belligerency has been difficult to take. My mother seems to have enough faculties left to hurl slander and hateful statements. It appears you've added things to my question that were not there to begin with. The slanderous statement from my mother really hurt. And my wife did not say, "if you continue to hurl slander and hateful statements at my husband, your son, I will not be able to interact with you right now." My wife and I talked about this. I don't know where we're at, but this is what happened. That's all. I'm not holding anybody to account, as I am well aware of my mother's condition. I'm in the middle of creating a MassHealth account to pay for her care, which has been very difficult. The slanderous statements were utterly insane and there was no need for them and they added un-needed stress to an already stressful situation. I am still processing this. Thank you all for your input.
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Hi Hugedoof!

Ugh, Alzheimer's -- my Mom's got it, too, and she tries my last nerve.

I understand why you'd want to withdraw from your Mom. (It has nothing to do with teaching her a lesson, but everything to do with saving your sanity/your marriage.) Whether it's for a short time or longer, it's up to YOU to decide how long to be away from her. And nobody should guilt you into seeing your Mom more often than you can bear.

Okay, so here's the thing: the one thing I'd do differently is NOT stand on the sidelines and tell my spouse what to say. It's really not fair to your wife. If you've got something to say to your Mom, then YOU need to say it. (I know, I know: It won't do any good, of course, because your Mom's brain is a sieve.) Or don't say anything at all. Just don't get upset with your wife for saying/not saying things to your Mom (especially if your wife's the one who seems to spend more time with your Mom on the phone and in person).

I hate Alzheimer's.
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ChrisfromCanada - we need to understand that Massachusetts requires co-guardians in these situations. My wife volunteered to step up to the plate and take on that role. This is what put us in this situation. The nursing home social worker has asked us "if your mother becomes belligerent, tell her that you will not interact until 'you can behave appropriately'" and then leave. My mother is manipulating my wife because she wants my wife to chauffeur her to CVS to purchase "personal items" that my wife purchased before, but were "wrong". This is my mother's attempt to trick my wife into getting her credit card back as it has been taken away from her due to the insane charging activity that occured prior to the nursing home admission. Thank you for the input.
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Hugedoof from your description of your mother's shenanigans it sounds like her mind is almost completely gone. I think, even at that stage, they can have flashes that enable them to be cunning and manipulate - like getting your wife to take her shopping. Your wife should absolutely not take her shopping and it sounds like she's not well enough anyway. Make any excuse like the car's in the shop, you have the flu, anything to get her off your back.

I'm in Canada as well so I don't know what to suggest except making sure you have legal and social services backing and stay away from her.
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Ah! Okay, I hear you.

Is it that you've had enough of your Mom manipulating your wife? Is that you've had enough of your wife being manipulated by your Mom?
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Note the post from Eyerishlass:

Eyerishlass
Give a Hug
4 mins ago
Caregivers are NOT paid to be called names and take abuse. If a caregiver from my agency called into the office and said a client was calling her names and verbally abusing her I'd yank her out of that situation that minute and that family would have to find another agency.

....but....it is OK for elders to hurl abuse at their love ones. That' what I've gathered.
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ChrisfromCanada - I've had enough - period.
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Hi there,

I'm so sorry for your situation...

I'm sorry your Mom's the way she is toward you and your wife. I'm sorry your wife finds herself in this position. I'm sorry there's no relief from this crappy, crappy dilemma. It's not fair.

Like I said before, if you're being driven round the bend by your mother, then continue doing what you're doing. Stay away for as long as you need. Your wife should probably do the same.

Hugs.
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Hugedoof - this is so helpful to read. So your mother is manipulative, huh? So is my FIL. I put myself in the position of buying clothing and incontinence items for my FIL too. And took them back, and took them back and took them back. My husband became irrate and told his father he was not going to do that with me. Thankfully Ohio does not have Co-Guardianship. My husband nor his brother want Guardianship at all. They are setting affairs up so their father makes his own decisions, along with the verbally abused wife of 60 plus years. The father never has positively reenforced the successes they have had in life so they feel that he will not approve of the decisions they make for him. So I really see your point.

Just please do not let this come between you and your wife. Marriage requires 100% of effort from both parties. Extended family did not take the vows with you.
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hugedoof and countrymouse - all of our experiences combined do not bring comfort to the idea of what we may do when we reach this stage in life. I don't want my kids to go through this. Ice float off the coast of Alaska is my hubby's solution. HA!
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Please tell your mom , that she will have to rely on the NH for transportation. Also, she can hire a medical transport, if she wants to shop. (I am guessing that she can't leave without supervision, though.)
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Is there a geriatric psychiatrist involved in your mom's treatment? It sounds like there is a significant degree of mental illness going on here in addition to the dementia.
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Hugedoof, I'm so sorry for your situation.
I am in the same situation, and have chosen to stay away, for my own sanity. My mother is in a nursing home, and I make sure she has the supplies she needs, and I attend all of her care plan meetings. The nursing home calls me if she needs anything. She will never get better, whether I visit or not. However, my mental health is much better when I do not visit.
I strongly believe we need to focus on the things we CAN control, which is mostly ourselves. Please do not let your mother's dementia destroy your life, your marriage, your own sanity.
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My mom is the same. She tells lies about those closest to her, those who do the most for her. You have to let it all roll off like water on a duck's back. She is not herself. My mom is no longer able to self-reflect. She does not understand how hurtful her accusations are. She really doesn't understand why people don't come and visit. They don't visit because visiting her is unpleasant. But she is your Mom. She needs to see you. She needs to know you still love her. She never will understand at this point that her accusations are hurtful and are the reason you stay away. And underneath all the hurt, you also still need to see your mom. So go see her. Just sit with her. Put your arm around her. Let all the negative stuff just roll away. She took care of you once, and she loved you un-conditionally once. Now it's your turn to love her un-conditionally.
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Having experienced dementia with both my parents a hard shell is an required survival tool. Dementia patients are basically small children in adult bodies. My mother lies all the time to avoid being caught or in the frame of mind of staying out of trouble. My MIL demands respect and to be the center of attention, all the time and will do whatever it takes to remain there. It is exceedingly difficult to set and maintain rules and not appear to be dis-respectable to others. Consistency is the trick while constantly explaining daily routine to outsiders. This is the life you are stuck with so deal with it the best you can. In the end, as long as they are well taken care of and it works, no-one else matters.
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Olivia, save room for me please. ;-)
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Hugedoof & all, this has been such a "hit home" topic with me. I learn from all of you and appreciate the various answers. Last year I stayed away from my Mom for several months after a particularly hurtful and vicious verbal attack. This year I would not do it, because as her dementia has progressed, I am able to see better that she just cannot reason any more, and I am learning not to argue or try to reason with her. She's always been mean and verbally abusive, and I used to get into word wars with her all our lives. Now I just feel sorry for her, see how scared and confused she is beneath the outbursts. If she gets too nasty, I just say "well, I have to get going" and shorten the visit. Next time I see her, she doesn't even remember what she said.
Hugedoof, I cannot imagine dealing with the things you have described. I know I couldn't, and would have placed a person like that in a home immediately. Mom is still pretty self sufficient, but she confuses things, and has little short term memory. I know this is only going to get worse, and pray for the strength to deal with it alone. Thank God you have your wife. Perhaps your wife understands that it is fruitless to try to defend you to a person who can no longer reason. Either way, I'm glad you have each other. Of course it's not OK, but to expect a mentally defective person to live by the rules of society is useless. Someone told me that that "Expectations are the road to disappointment." So true. If you need to stay away for your own sake, the good thing is, she probably does not have an accurate sense of time, and won't know if it's been a year or a month since she's seen you. Take care of yourself in whatever way you know you can live with, when she's gone. I have had doctor's tell me "just don't got see her", but I could not live with that, so I go. Who knows? I maybe in her situation myself one day, and I sure hope my kids don't abandon me. Hoping we get our reward for patience in the next life. : D
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You know what I do after so many years of living this-I made myself a bracelet that I call m y prayer bracelet that I always wear on my left wrist, but when I'm playing the guitar. I simply say what I say , a bead at a time when presented with lies, forgetfulness, fear, all that goes with it. You can only think one thought at a time-why not make it be of GOD??? Gets me through it , moment to moment -don't take it personally-that is not where it comes from-SEE the LIGHT with in your mom, with in all.
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Dear Hugegoof, (love the name, btw) Your problem resonates with me. It's extremely painful to have someone who has brought you into this world and loved you all your life start telling lies about you or start calling you names or swearing at you. You say she has dementia. Do you believe it? It sounds like you really think she can reason and be purposefully hurtful to you? (My mother seems to have enough faculties left to hurl slander and hateful statements) You've been through a lot and perhaps what you need now is counseling for yourself and your wife and how to grieve and let go of the woman that was your mother. This person you help care for now requires YOUR unconditional love, but you may not be able to give it due to your own emotional issues. I would dare say that your wife should have never taken on the role of the co guardian... that' soo much burden in an already burdened situation. Only you can know what you can handle, and while you are asking for advice, I see by some of your responses that you can be quite defensive. You have to ask yourself why? Are you seeking our permission to walk away... most of us won't give it... we have lived your life... and we stayed through all the gross and disgusting and all the yelling and hitting... yes FAMILY caregivers accept a lot of abuse.. and it's ok. Only you can decide what you are willing to do.
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Defenses?? Must you be right?? I hear ego. We all have our ego's. Bet make friends with yours'.
Your talking about a devastating disease. One that robs one's cognitive ability to think-it's just gone....sometimes I think it is not such a bad place to hang out ,but I think a lot of silly things. The thing with thoughts-they mean what we give them power to mean??
I SO FILL MY THOUGHTS WITH GOD. I play the Guitar, respond to questions I may help with ??? Pray, sing, dance, play with great, great nieces & nephews-care for twins, of 2 years old-LITTLE GODS (when I can) & am here for my husband who has a flat affect, no emotions, can't always remember me, but I always remember him.... and I so wish to be ever present, since it is all we have? I live moment to moment ....I am not always thankful for the gifts I have been given so I just look harder....I look for the LIGHT with in. Blessings are all around you. Your not alone & I so can validate where your at & what you feel-been there-I mean no disrespect. I so wish to reach out & help....I believe that is why I am.
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Huge Doof, you aren't one BTW, and getting that 55k mess taken care of was an awesome feat. Mom will never acknowledge it. But if I were in your spot I would sit down, look my spouse straight in the face and say, "Honey... All I really need Is for you to say WELL DONE for handling the finances, that YOU know I didn't take the money to buy myself a house, and PROMISE you won't be tricked into giving mom another credit or debit card, EVER." Maybe even blubber a little bit and get not only that but an "I love you" or two exchanged in the process. Then maybe you can weather Mom trying to make you look and feel like a doofus. You both know she's doing that because her dementia lets her do it with a straight face (they can't necessarily distinguish anymore the difference between what they wish were true and what is) and it makes her feel better and is a plausible way for her to irrationally but effectively banish any lingering suspicion that she is the one who screwed up big time.
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You said your mother had dementia, that means she is not in her right mind. For goodness sake keep on seeing her, she has no idea of what she is doing to you.When my children were in their teens they would sometime say they hated me. It meant nothing they were just mad, you have to be the grown up here and go on loving your mother, that is if you did.
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