Money, money, money. Parents did no planning - how do you deal with it?

Not in the same situation, but know many others who are.

Bogleheads.org is a great resource.

Please remember that YOU are not responsible for your dad's care. You can arrange care, you can make inquiries on his part, but you are NOT on the hook for his care.

SZHNJ1023, one thing I noticed, if someone has been a big spender when they were young, they will continue to spend, spend, spend throughout their life. They are living for today, not thinking about tomorrow. And who suffers, the grown kids who are trying to mend the situation.

My boss is that way, he recently sold a property that he owned as he needed the equity, and my sig other who is good with finances was trying to help my boss set up stock funds, etc. Sig other asked my boss how much money does he need to survive on for the year..... he said $150k.... SAY WHAT? Just shows, that a person who is a big spender will continue.... [sigh].

Where's my helmet? Time to bang head against the wall.

My brother was a real saver. On a Waiter's Salary all his life, real estate is predominantly where he made all his money. He would get a property and bring it back to beauty and health, then sell for a lot more money than he would put into the next home he was bringing back to life; basically it is what he loved to do.Always a careful spender, it was something he learned at his parent's knees. We grew up poor, but always be taught to save, save, save, and to give. And to still have a great life in ways that didn't spend much money. Everyone is different. I think some find it difficult to save for the future because it is a future full of loss and need that they don't even want to consider. They hope to die, boom, happily and without a long, slow, slide to the end. Just do not lose your own financial future to your Dad's situation. My brother at 85 is in a place where, now in assisted living, it is difficult to even imagine him outliving his funds, as care needs go up. I think some didn't even make enough to save what would be needed, and current folks out there who cannot even pay off their college loan debt, cannot buy and pay off a home because of it, are really going to be in a bind. One I won't live to see, but with these college loans not forgiven even by bankruptcy, times will be rough for some. Sorry you are going through this.

Until I got on Aging Care I thought my mom’s sister was the worst financial planner; then I read some of the situations here. Good luck in cleaning up your father’s mess. And Medicaid should not be the automatic answer to every situation.

I'm not in the same situation, but I feel for you. My ex-husband's father (still alive) was a saver and he accumulated a lot of assets for himself and his wife. About 10 or 11 years ago, a "financial advisor" persuaded ex-FIL to put a lot of their assets into questionable investments, I think with the promise that the assets would be protected for Medicaid divestment purposes. So far, we don't know if the Medicaid protection part is true (my ex is his parents' in-home caregiver), but we do know that the assets aren't nearly as accessible as they should be for the parents' current care. The worst (in my opinion) example is the life insurance that ex-FIL bought on ex-MIL's life: $30,000 per year premiums. So far, they've paid $360,000 for the policy. It's likely that the policy eventually will pay off but not 100% certain that it will do so soon enough for the family to actually make any money off this "investment."

Overall, people in America are not good savers, and, it continues to get worse. The generations behind us have nothing saved, I am glad that I do not have to worry about them in retirement. My father was a saver, he instilled this in me...my mother not so much, she just looked for some guy to support her, typical of her generation. As for your father, how about applying for Medicaid?? Yes, he won't stay in a home comparable to a Hilton, but, he will be safe and cared for...for every bad decision there is a bad outcome, sometimes we just need to accept this and go forward with our life.

If Moms name was the only one on the card, Dad may not be responsible for that debt.

You know it surprises me when people end up relying on SS as their total income. SS was set up to suppliment savings and pensions. Used to be people waited till 65 to collect. By then the house should be paid off. Kids have been grown for a while so should have been able to save something. No, my parents didn't save. They had 4 kids on one living wage salary. When the last one left the nest, my Dads health was bad so he was forced to retire and get SSD. TG he had enough service for a pension.

Does Dad own his own home outright? If so, sell it. Then find him a nice Senior apt. There are HUDD apts but proceeds from the sale of a house make take him over the income limit. If no house, then look for Senior housing. They take 30% of his income for rent. The debts, he may havevto file bankruptcy. It takes more than the monthly minimum payment to pay CCs off. That pretty much pays the interest. I would call ur local Office of Aging and see if they have a credit consultant that can help u to get things straightened out. Maybe consolidation so he only has 1 payment.

So many of the 'greatest generation' saw their own parents live fairly comfortably on SS alone, and assumed the same for them.

My parents couldn't even cover the house upkeep on SS---and had to sell it-no options. Their poor planning didn't make for a problem for all us kids!

AND, they had 2 favorite kids they could not say 'no' to, so they gave and gave and gave (and were robbed by one)….none of that $250K+ was ever recovered. That amt. would have made it possible to for mother and dad to live independently--'losing' that made it so we kids all have to pitch in occasionally.

DH and I decided 30+ years ago that it was unlikely we'd live to see SS, so we planned and saved accordingly. Surprise to us, we will receive SS, and that is just going to back into savings as we saved and saved and invested so that what happened to our folks cannot happen to us. (Hopefully-you never know!)

I am still VERY surprised at the attitude my mother has about money. Such a fuss and to-do made about her 'inheritance' which totals less than $50K for the 5 remaining sibs to share. $9K will not buy a crummy used car, but mother has held that 'inheritance' over our heads....

I think we've been pretty cautious--hope so. We retire in 2 years and hope that all the planning will come to fruition and make our retirement not be a burden to any of our kids.

My YB has control over mother's spending and watches her closely. She's making some big mistakes now, big deal if she ruins her credit rating at age 90--but he put her on a cash only basis some years ago. That really helped the CC spending and careful "catalog" shopping.

My FIL is one who failed to plan for retirement. He served 18 years in the army and then worked as a mechanic, sometimes for himself but for at least the last 15
years of his life he worked for a nationwide equipment rental company. If his company had a retirement plan, he squandered away the money!

He passed a month ago and I was shocked to discover that his “retirement” was nothing but a $1300 social security check! He also retired at 62 1/2 so he wasn’t even eligible for Medicare! It all makes sense now, why he finally moved out here! He didn’t plan for his retirement and $1300 was hardly enough to live off of! We know he had almost $800 worth of monthly bills that were on auto pay. $591 of that was for his truck payment! He bought the truck when he retired. Just my honest opinion but was it was stupid and foolish to finance such an expensive vehicle when his only income was social security! My husband was also shocked to find out his dad didn’t actually have a retirement. I don’t have a clue why my FIL didn’t plan for retirement but maybe he was content living on an extremely tight income. After he divorced his 3rd (might have been 4th) wife, he rented a room. And he was content doing that. I know that he was pretty poor when my BIL lived with him as a teenager so.....I don’t think saving for retirement was something my FIL ever thought about.

my MILs partner......was a county worker and had he not been fired, he would have had a nice retirement. But he got fired in 2008 and he cashed out his retirement which came with a hefty penalty fee. He took home $48,000. He put it in him & MILs joint savings account. Within 8 years the money was gone, squandered away. I think some of it went toward paying extra money towards the mortgage and down payments for various cars they bought. My MIL retired from the county in 2016 and between her retirement and SS, she lived comfortably. It was because of her money that they kept their lifestyle. She also contributed a little money to a deferred compensation plan-i. 30 years of employment she put $20k in to her deferred comp fund. So when she died, her partner lost his cash cow and now all he has is $1000 month in social security and a $300 pension.

My parents worked for the city and county for their entire careers so they have retirement plans. And social security. If they hadn’t gone to work for the city and county, they wouldn’t have planned for retirement-wouldn’t have been able to afford it. My dad is also a Vietnam veteran with war injuries so he gets a check from the VA every month. It’s not aid & attendance, I don’t know what it is though. So by the luck of the draw my parents have live very comfortably on their retirements, especially considering my mom retired early and my dad was forced in to medical retirement. They are fortunate that the VA pays for all my dads health care and my mom gets champ VA in addition to her medicare so her out of pocket medical costs are very low, and if they need to go into LTC the VA will pay for it.

My husband is a city employee and when he retires in 5 years, he will receive 90% of his highest paid year. He has also paid in to deferred comp his entire career and has over $100k so we will live comfortably even after he is retired. I will go back to work in a few years to earn more SS credits for myself but mainly to pay for our health insurance. If I can land a job with excellent employer-paid health insurance then my plan is put a good amount of my income into a 401k or something. My husband retires at 51 and even though he’ll have a great retirement income, he’s retiring young and we’ll have a lot of years left, God willing. I’d like to have enough assets that our kids will never have to worry about how to pay for our care or our debts! I don’t want to burden them with anything.

I went through something similar with my father. It was truly tragic because at the end he could not afford the care he needed and basically didn't have any choice but to go to hospice. If he'd had savings, maybe he'd still be alive. I felt like I was forced to make responsible decisions for him, decisions he didn't want to make, but there weren't many options available by that point. It felt unfair that it became my problem and responsibility.

I wouldn't worry about the credit card debt at this point. They can't get blood from a stone. There's nothing they can do to him besides send threatening collection letters. Getting on the subsidized housing waiting lists is a great step to take, even if the wait seems really long. It gets him 'in the system' and in an environment where there are more resources available to figure out what comes next.

Just wait. I own a small tour company and many of my friends are part of the massive "gig" economy....tour guides, lyft drivers, grocery and food delivery. A huge portion of middle aged people today have little to no stable income, forget about retirement. This is reality for many. On the flip side, we also have no insurance, so unlike the previous generation, we won't be going in and out of hospitals and nursing homes. Grimly, a whole generation is planning on dying while they we still able bodied enough to work.

YOU don't have to deal with it - once you clean it up. Your loved one will have to live on what they have. Don't finance them. My mom had great jobs and a lot of money after splitting assets from divorce from my dad - no 401K or saved anything - but blew threw it all. When I tried to get her to save or to do 401K to plan for the future - she told me to mind my own business, that she would "live off social security". Well, that is what she is doing now. And she doesn't like it.

She is piZZed that I'm not willing to give her $2k per month (or anything per month). And gets upset when I remind her that she planned on living off social security. Several times she has spent all her social security and had no rent money for her senior apartment - pegged to 30% of her income. I paid a couple of times and told her - no more. and held to it next time I got the crying phone call. Then she started on my sister. Who is too soft hearted to say no but then is mad that I say no.

The point is - you won't change someone who has a view of money that it should be spent and someone else will cover them. I refuse to. Do the same.

May be time for him to file bankruptcy if he won't ever be able to pay back his credit card debt.

Lol my mother was a probate court administrator for decades and never updated her will, never encouraged my stepfather to update his, had no idea what assets he had or who the beneficiaries were , had to be talked into getting medical and financial POAs , 🙄. In their case it was if they ignored it that meant they would live forever . Not any solution I know of. Can he get Medicaid or social security disability? Not sure when he stopped working, I think it’s 5 years

First before you start paying debt. Consider your Dad’s options:
1. Does he have equity in his home?
2. Have you tried to see does he qualify for Medicaid in the State he resides?
3. Is SSN your dads only source of income ( savings, life insurance cash value, investments)
Answer these questions so we can review your options to address your dads financial concerns.

Some people live day to day. You have to accept your parents for what they are. You are the responsible one. Talk to a social worker to find out what resources are available for care. Ask for help wherever you can. You will not be responsible for their credit card debt. Don't put your name on their accounts.

I knew I wasn't the only one in this situation but it does help to read some of the options.  My mother lives in another state (warmer than my MN) and is refusing to give up home & location but declining health is leading to depression.  She thinks because my youngest is almost done with high school & my husband has a good job that I should come take care of her (and enjoy the beach, etc. while she is still alive).  I have never given her money but she relies on a pension from my dad that ends when he dies.  He is also needing assistance but thankfully he's more willing to admit it.  My only sister takes care of his medical needs by vising him every 6-8 wks through her medical leave act (she lives either further away from them).  My sister & mother do not have a relationship so Im get to deal with her alone.  She wants my dad (her ex of 40+ years) to help her monthly or let her move in with him.  Yikes - that's a bad idea. 
she is searching for a place she is willing to live (and I will likely be forced to tell her she can't afford it) but the wheels are in motion to find a senior living assisted living home for her while she can still think for herself.  She's not bad with money now, but there was a time she tried to live outside of her means.  She simply won't have much after my dad dies and im trying to prepare her for reality. 
I don't want to not help her, but she lived the life she chose.  I also want my boys to see me care for her so when the time comes for my care, they will be more willing to assist me in finding a place.  Boys are typically less involved and since I have no DIL yet or any potentials I want the boys to know they are expected to assist me & their dad with some tough decisions down the road.

Wow, I'm in this boat as well! My parents have always been horrible planners. It's almost as it they never thought about the future - ever! So after my Dad came out of the hospital (after a fall that landed him in there for 3 months), he needed a lot of changes in the house so that he could stay there. My Mom has her own issues (possible dementia, debilitating anxiety and depression). It has not been easy. But I was just blown away with how little my parents understood about certain things, like how assisted living is paid for. When my Dad was in the hospital, he said Mom would probably need to go into a place soon because of her condition. I was like, how are you going to pay for that? He thought insurance would cover. Once I told him the grim reality of that, the ballgame changed big time.

The first thing I will say to you is this - you are doing the best job that you can. Your parents missteps are not yours to own. You can do what you can to help your Dad and get him on some kind of track I take care of my parents finances, tell them everything that's going on, do a monthly budget to show them the reality that is their lives now. It's an eye opener for them and for me.

If your Dad owns his home you can sell it and put him in an assisted living place. Look for a place that takes private AND Medicaid. The money from the sale goes to pay for his AL, before that runs out he applies for Medicaid and payment is made that way. (I am hoping I'm understanding that correctly because it's what I'm looking into as well. If I'm not, I hope someone corrects me).

My Dad wanted me to make sure I got a POA and a Medical POA right after his injury, which I did. My names are already on all the banking so if yours isn't, I'd do that asap, too. Makes it easier to sign checks and move money and such.

Honesty is what I find works best. Give your Dad an honest accounting of what is happening. I tell my parents exactly what is going on with their finances, what I'm paying and why, what they can and cannot afford. And I let them know in no uncertain terms that I do not have any money to bail them out. I'm looking forward to my own retirement soon and there is nothing extra. Their bad planning is not going to impact my future retirement, which my husband and I have been planning for the last 30 years (I guess I did learn something from my parents...how NOT to plan for your future).

Just try to remember you're doing the best you can.

FWIW--

Mother and dad were charmed into buying a LTC policy from a guy they thought was a financial genius--I never saw anything he 'planned' for them come to fruition in any way, shape or form.

So--they buy this LTC policy 'in case'. Daddy didn't want us to turn our lives inside out caring for mother.

A couple years ago was the perfect time to move mother to an ALF, where she could have a bigger social life, more stable care and a MUCH cleaner environment. we have a family meeting to discuss this and POA brother pulls out the policy and--holy cow--the policy pays a whopping total of $45 per day towards LTC. That, along with her SS still left her a full $2K short of even the rattiest place. A couple of my sibs are millionaires, but should THEY have to kick out $2K a month so mother can have what she wanted? No way.

This LTC policy will not even cover a couple day's respite care if she went with an agency. What a huge waste of money.

And, may I add, a total heartbreak for the brother who took mother and dad into his house until she'd need more care. She's been there 22 years. No way would he have signed on for this, had he known.

We have had to deal with this with my MIL and FIL. It’s so difficult. They had NO IDEA what a budget is. If they had $$ in the bank they spent it. Two years ago when we figured out how dire the situation was my BIL took over their bill paying and put them on a budget. gave them cash for the week and had their CC for emergencies-but eating out became an emergency....2X a day, when their meals were provided at AL community. Had to go to $50 cash only for necessities and all else. My FIL was an accountant. *SMH* MIL grew up very poor and she “enjoyed all that their wealth could provide.” They made many bad decisions financially, from taking a lump sum and investing it with a shady investment guy from their church who lost $400k of their $$. he did that to many others too. Class action lawsuit got them back $250k... which they put in CD’s so it would be “safe”. They then bought cars every 5 years, 3 houses that they lost money on each time because they were impatient. Took 2-3 trips per year. 4 years ago they wrote a “book” about their lives where they copied all their expenses from all the trips they’d taken as well as their cars and houses. They were running low on $$ about 12 years ago and when FIL’s sister died, she left money to my DH and His brother for all our children’s college expenses. My FIL was the executor. He kept the $$. The irony is they cashed that out 2 years ago and were about to be swindled for $50k and we stepped in and stopped it. It was the last CD-the one he had from his sister for $90K that we were supposed to get . That’s when we knew how bad things were. We were fortunately able to get some of it secured. Much of it has gone to medical expenses and BIL pays all their bills and watches over it. We were also able to get them VA benefits for aid/assistance and that plus social security covers their AL.
It is very difficult to be the “on the ground” support 24/7 knowing all these things. But we press on.

I was pressed into service about 6 years ago as my folks began failing. They were both depression kids and They had always scrimped and saved every cent. Still had furniture from the late 60s! Dad would drive a car till the wheels fell off.

But there were two problems. Dad was developing mild dementia and had put money in accounts, CDs, annuities etc all over the place then hid all the paperwork in nooks and crannies around the house. I was 2 years tracking it all down and sorting things out.

Next issue was trying to convince them they needed to use their money for their care some day. NO! THAT MONEY IS FOR YOU AND THE GRANDKIDS. WE WILL NEVER THROW IT DOWN A RAT HOLE IN SOME NURSING HOME!! Keep in mind, these conversations took place when mom was still quite sharp but I never convinced her one little bit. She had this vision of just dying peacefully in her recliner while watching wheel of fortune.

A few years When I finally got them in assisted living neither was competent enough to understand how the bills were getting paid. I just told them Medicare and their insurance covered everything.

Boy does this sound familiar! My parents were living on SSI and a small inheritance from his parents. Both were Depression era kids and Dad was self employed. They did not live extravagantly but Dad never planned to retire and Mom never asked how they would live if something happened.

Well, when Dad had a stroke and the money stopped I got involved with sorting out paying bills and discovered Mom never balanced her checkbook! They always had a large balance which to her seemed like an unlimited supply. They manage on their joint SS for a few years but after another stroke and having to pay for in-home care for Dad the money started to run out.

I consulted the local Department on Aging and was put in touch with a free legal consultant who gave us some good advice about getting Dad on Medicaid. (A social worker at Catholic Family Services was also a fount of good advice) There are provisions to protect some assets for the spouse. As long as Mom was living in the house that was exempt from the spend down. She could keep $23k in cash assets, the rest had to be spent down on Dad's care until there was
$2k then he would qualify.

Well he died before I could get the paperwork in which left Mom living on one SS income in a 4 bedroom 2 story house at age 90. It was costing her more to live there than her income. And that was not counting home aids, PT, etc. After 2 hospital stays and a stint in rehab she was convinced to move to Assisted Living. We toured several facilities and she picked out the one she liked. We cleaned out the house, stored what she wanted to keep, sold the rest and the house.

Now she is 92 and has enough money in the bank to live there for at least 5 years. After that Medicaid and/Aid and Assistance from Dad's military service will cover her costs.
I have POA and pay her bills. Luckily they had no credit card debt, whew!

Some elders are what is called "property poor," your LO being among them. Just because they chose not to plan in advance does not mean you have to pick up the financial shortcomings. My husband actually worked with someone like this. This man actually laughed at my husband, saying "why are you saving so much money? Live for today!" Well, guess what - that man will be scrapping for nickels and dimes!

I don't know all the ins and outs, but please remember his debt is NOT yours, legally or morally, to worry about. Obviously it impacts where he can afford to live, etc., but you have every reason to do "tough love" here - it IS his mess. Would bankruptcy be a possibility?  Senior housing, shared housing, care home? Again, these were his decisions and it is reasonable to take the attitude he will have to live with the consequences. Does he take such a nonchalant attitude because he believes you will bail him out? I'd make it clear that that will not happen.

My mother didn't have any retirement plans or any money saved which she really couldn't save any money living month to month on a measly $750 SSI check, then she was diagnosed with kidney failure & already had heart failure, diabetes, high cholesterol & blood pressure & after about 3 years on dialysis & her husband not taking care of her very well at all she came to live with me & at first it was really hard financially until I found out about a program called Public Partnership's LLC (PPL). After I found out about this program it took about 6 months before I started receiving any money but luckily I had all the documentation done in time & was able to get back time pay for those 6 months. My mother had to have a screening done which gets done quicker in the hospital but can be done at home as well & screening just means a nurse monitors the patient & I assume asked plenty of questions then I had to fill out an application for life long Medicaid which wasn't hard with the help of an awesome social worker & the fact my mother was already on Medicaid probably helped too. In the beginning I was making decent money then a care coordinator told me how I could use respite hours which are hours you can use to get a break & those hours pay a nurse or a family member but that wasn't an option for me because I couldn't get anyone to help so since my mother was living with me & I never used those respite hours I was told I can use those hours & I was told to not use up my hours to quickly but I didn't listen & this past year I made more than I ever have $21,000 but keep in mind this job doesn't take out federal taxes & filing taxes is a major pain especially with this program. I'm not sure how many states this program is offered to but it's definitely worth checking into & if you can't stay at home to care for your father this program will pay a nurse or a friend/family member to go to their house & take care of them. I really hope this program or something similar is offered in your area, I live in Virginia. Taking care of your parents is the hardest thing you'll probably ever have to deal with, my mother passed away in February & I took care of her for over 3 years & I never imagined it would be so hard not so much physically hard but it will take a toll on you emotionally. You basically have a front row seat watching someone you love die at least that's how it was for me. It's a very hard decision & it's unfortunate that financial situations have such an impact on making such decisions. I wish you the best

My I’m is now in an assisted living facility. She thinks she should have plenty of money from her Social Security and that I am keeping her money. I can’t get her to understand I am paying thousands of dollars a month for her care. It is difficult when the grown chi,d becomes the parent

I’m in the boat with you. Except my sick husband did this. Now I am dealing with his financial disaster. It’s all on me!!!
And I get angerier each day. We can’t afford AL. I doubt that is enough care for his needs. He isnt NH yet. I refuse to take him home when Rehab discharges him in a few days. I haven’t started on Medicaid yet. He probably wouldn’t get it.
So. What do I do with him????? Not home. No money. Home owner.
He wears a diaper 24/7. He lost 90 pounds now 135. I will not be his caretaker. No way. He did this physically to himself. And $ mess. What can I do? I can’t focus anymore. Help needed. Please!!