I have been the chosen child out of 3 children helping my mom for the last 15 yrs since my dad died (and trust me, I have done chores etc., that I would only do for my mom). I have gotten her to move into the house (with the mortgage) so she can be close to me, my sister (who is always busy), and her teenage granddaughter (who is also busy). I now live a mile from my mom and my sister lives 9 miles away. My sister and I have a less than authentic relationship but we are cordial and all of us do things at time for my mom and my niece (the grand - daughter). Several years ago my mom said that she wanted to leave me the most because I do the most for her. I never asked her for this. When she bought the house she is now living in - she started dangling this over my head saying she wanted to leave it to me and my husband to live in and then to give to her granddaughter. So we would pay the mortgage and preserve the house for her granddaughter and she BELIEVES this is leaving me something. I’ve tried
explaining this to her but it is hopeless. We don’t plan to move into her house, unless there was some unforeseen unfortunate event, and I have taken the stance if it makes her happy that she thinks she is doing something for me - fine. Problem is she continually puts off doing her will or Trust - because she is constantly scrutinizing anything I do or don't do and then tells me she doesn't want to go to a lawyer because she is evaluating her wishes. I have told her that SHE IS NOT giving me anything, that she can give whatever to whomever. She is also paralyzed by the decision of what to do in reference to this in regards to my brother who is on his third not speaking to her since my dad’s death..this time he has not spoken to her since Sept., and his wife has not spoken to my mom in 2 years. My sister has a cordial dinner relationship with my mom and is content with this as my mom has told her she is giving me her house with the mortgage. Since they just do short visits and dinner – my mom praises what a nice relationship they have compared to ours at this point, as it is strained, because it is not EASY helping my mom. My mom is really concerned about what goes to my brother as he has disappointed her so and has been so disrespectful. All of this is dysfunctional. At this point she cannot stand the thought of anything going to his wife. All this aside, my mom has been a good steward of her finances and I cannot seem to convince her she should protect them by going to an attorney - and that she can still change her mind in regards to the Trust at any time. She says if she changes her mind it will cost her again. She is resentful when I bring up going to a lawyer and says this is all I care about. I only bring it up like every 4 months. For her to say this to me – with all the caring I have tried to help provide her – this is incredulous to me. She also says that since all of us are the ones benefitting from what she leaves behind (especially me???) that I should pay the attorney for her Trust. Can anyone advise me what to do?
Do I just give up on it? How do I handle her thinking I am the one who benefits?? All of this, I have let, be crazy-making for me.
If you pay for the Trust, what guarantee do you have that she is leaving you with the house? Is it important to you that you get the house or anything else she has promised? I am not trying to offend you in any way by asking these questions. I want you to think about it because you know your mother and how she works. Is she testing you as to what your reasons are for taking care of her or is she using the house and other items she has promised to you to keep you helping her? Has she been a manipulating person throughout your life? I may be way off base, but I think your mother may want her assets divided equally. If she has been a good steward of her finances, she can afford to pay for a Trust. I would let it go.
As you can read in my earlier post –she is not giving me her home with the mortgage. She wants my husband and me to maintain it and live in it if we want to live in a smaller home (we are now in our 60’s) if she pre-deceases us. When she sort of blackmails me – I try calmly to explain that the house is not going to me it is going to her grandchild. At this point I try just not to say anything. In this scenario – actually my mom will leave me nothing really that I would have as far as my own cash to help towards my own latter years- which at this point does strike me as a bit ironic. At this point it is okay. She doesn’t compute the logistics of it. Even though my husband and I have our own nice house that we are paying a mortgage on –she thinks she is doing something for us – by giving us the option to live in her smaller house until we want to hand it over to her grandchild who is now 16.
I have considered exactly what you are suggesting- let it go. Some people think saying something is the same as doing something. It is possible that she does want to do nothing – so by default she treats all her children the same. That is fine, I never requested anything different.
After like 14-15 years – it would be nice if at least my sister chipped in more to handle the responsibilities. I am weary. I am most weary that my mom (in her distorted thinking-though I do believe she is manipulative and I think she plays her children against each other at this point) is believing and giving my sister the idea that she has some promise to me. I have recently told my sister that my mom has no updated will, and no Trust. Her will is quite old, and does not even contain the house she has now bought. My sister is very smart. She knows that a promise is nothing to stand – but when I ask her for help in some way – except for what she wants to do…have dinner, she has told me that my mom and I have an arrangement and or it is not her responsibility (she is 10 yrs younger than me).
Lastly, yep, I do think my mom is acting like she is testing me and evaluating me as to whether I have done all this or am doing all that I do just to get something from her. Trust me, no sane person, except for one who is just trying to help their mom be safe and happy in her older years, would go through some of the stuff I have done trying to satisfy her or encourage her to take the blessings that my dad left her and have an optimistic and happy life. At this point If I give up - I believe neither my sister or brother will step in. My sister delegates everything either to her secretary or her life partner. It is a puzzle. I'm glad I found this site to try and get some focus before I disrupt the blessings that the Lord has placed in my own life. Thanks for listening.
Maybe you are correct – I should let it go. Guess I am stubborn in knowing all the ways I have
tried to help my mom save money, her expecting me to do her house work, yard work, because she is giving me this house – has or is pretty much making me, a smart person, schizo.
Thanks for the time you took in replying to my post.
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Personally, I'd let the will topic go. She cannot compell you, from beyond the grave, to maintain property for her granddaughter. You don't have to move, no matter what her will says. She cannot force you to pay taxes or mortgage payments or upkeep for a house that isn't yours. If you don't want the house (and who would under those circumstances?) you don't have to accept it. And, really, won't it be up to the mortgage company whether they are willing to transfer the mortgage to another party? They may simply want to be paid when your mother dies, which would come out of the estate funds. I don't know how these things work -- but this is why if Mother wants things to happen a certain way she really needs to have the guidance of a lawyer.
"Mother, you have done a good job managing your finances and unless you need more care than I can give you here in your own home, you will probably be one of the few people of your generation who has something to leave to your heirs. It is totally your money and your decision about what you will do with it. I'm going to continue to help you out with the yard work and shopping, etc. regardless of what you do with the will. If you choose not to make a will, that is OK with me, too. Us kids will divide everything equally, by law, in that case. But talking about the will isn't very productive. Do as you please. It is your business, not mine. So let's just not talk about it anymore."
If she brings up the "you are going to get more" ploy, say, "Mom, unless you actually make a will your children are all going to share equally in your estate, with nothing going to your grandchild, if there is anything left when you pass on. What you do about your estate is your business. I don't want to discuss it."
If this really is emotional blackmail, it can only work if you go along with it.
As for her kids paying for the legal fees of a will or trust or whatever ... nonsense. She is not required to have a will. If she doesn't want to, or would kind of like to but doesn't want to pay for it, that is her right. (And since money she spends now is money that won't be available in her estate, all of her heirs are in a sense "paying" for the legal work anyway. It is just a little less you'll each get in the end.)
And here is something else to keep in mind. Your mother is 88. In the next 5 or 6 or even 2 years she may develop serious health issues. For "serious" read "expensive." She would certainly not be the first parent who thought she had a lot of money to leave to her heirs who winds up with little or nothing to leave anybody. What if she had to be in a skilled nursing facility for 5 years? What would that do the estate?
Do not count on getting anything when she dies. If you feel you should be compensated for the help you provide, arrange to get paid monthly, under a care agreement. If you are willing to do it without compensation, take two gold stars out of petty cash. Just don't count on what will happen after Mom passes.
Your mom is playing you. It could be that she is losing some of her cognitive skills. If she is such a wise money person, she should be able to see that what she is suggesting is a recipe for disaster, meaning the losing of her assets which, normally, she would not want.
My advise is to ignore her and let it be. Don't talk about this with her anymore other than to say, whatever you want to do with your assets if fine with me. Because I have an evil heart, I would probably add, "Mom,there is no reason to talk about your assets now. You could have a major illness, stroke or God knows what and end up in a nursing home for 10 years before you die. At that point, you wouldn't have any assets anyway. I sure hope that doesn't happen, but you never know. That will give her something else to think about.
You know, 4hurt, my parents didn't have anything, but I have watched my husbands mom and her friends who felt they would have something to leave their kids. OMG, they love to talk to each other about the hole passing down thing. You would think they were the wealthy elite and I think they enjoyed seeing themselves as such, even though their assets were small potatoes. My MIL ended up on Medical and we pitched in for her. Don't play the game. Do what's in your heart and nothing more. Hugs, Cattails
I have tried to get her to hire a yard person and she will just say I need the money to pay the mortgage. Could she hire someone once a month-yes. But why do it, as I and my husband rescue the situation. I told her she absolutely had to hire someone for the last major clean up as my husband and I cut the grass, set the irrigation and do the minimal. I told her we have our own home to keep up with. She did hire the person I found because I was having her house appraised - as I have just gotten her house refinanced at a better rate and did all of that paperwork as well. SHe says she lets me do these things because she and I have an agreement - so in reading these posts I know i need to attack that misunderstanding one more time. My sister wouldn't mind my mom leaving the house to my niece - she would jump in, handle it as an asset and just sell it. Though if there is no updated will for the new house it would just be divided between us siblings - after paying the rest of the mortgage - it is all mute. She has told me if she ever goes into a nursing home she will never forgive any of us. She took care of her mom and cannot understand why I can't be like her. Funny...'cause I am doing my best to help her as much as I can.
Thanks for everyone's input. I realize that a lot of what has been said makes a lot of sense. If I ever told my mom she should pay me for my help at this point - she would have a meltdown. So I guess I go with the two gold stars! Blessings.
Refuse this, sounds as if you have a good life and do not need her house. However, I would consider being paid or at the very least make your mom pay for some of her yard work, etc. My brother started right off with not doing this sort of thing for my mom and forced her to hire a yard man. If he hadn't done this, he would be maintaining three homes and working 50+ hours a week. That would have been fine with mom as long as she could preserve her money. And like your mom, she has been very frugel and now has plenty.
I would drop the entire will talk, probate will take care of everything. It will go to her heirs.
this clause is in my mom's mortgage. I'm accepting more and more (been difficult because I have put so much work into helping my mom be frugal and guard her money etc., because that brings her a lot of pleasure and reassurance) - anyway, I've coming to the point of letting it go. Her old will states that whatever is in her estate goes equal to her children - I suspect, her grandchild (though her only one) will not be included as her heirs as she was not even born at the time of her old will. The newer house (with the mortgage) will go to probate, etc. as not in anything legally. She is SO ADAMOUNT that she does not want anything to go to my brother because of all the pain he has caused her - and she has no words to express how his wife has also hurt her - but by not doing anything ...I have to accept, at least for her, the chips will fall and will do exactly what she says she definitely doesn't want because of her non-action, and being stubborn.
I would definitely ask the mortgage company but that is what I read just recently. Congress passed a law in I believe 1982 protecting heirs from having this happen to them. Would make sense to me to not penalize those who inherit homes with mortgages still outstanding.
Hope that helps a little.
the settling of the will.
Thank you for researching this. I have copied the info and put in my folder.
My husband is a patient man - but my mom and all this dysfunction and me letting it all take me emotionally down into the basement - has let me prevent myself from getting my own home responsibilities done. These posts and suggestions have given me some renewed hope and I am coming to terms with just letting my mom have her old will and what will be will be....regardless of her feelings about my brother and his wife.
As she ages, and loses a sense of autonomy for herself, she tries to manipulate however she can think of doing it, to maintain a certain feeling that she still controls her life.
Gotta work hard to avoid letting her dangle the carrots in front of your nose, then yank them. Not in any form.
Mindgames like that can drive a person crazy, not knowing what will hit next.
When an Elder is successful using this tactic, they usually try other renditions of same.
Playing the "you're my favorite" game is nasty.
Same thing with any game contining words like "you are getting everything anyway!" [yeah, right!][when they say things like that, they mean others will get everything, not you!]
Good you are doing your homework.
Good she has at least the old Will.
But that does not cover the house in discussion.
Mom started purchase of that house,
--and you have been making the mortgage payments?
How long? Keep documents that you are making payments?
You also paying the taxes on it? For how long?
You pay for it but not own it.
...kinda like renting a place you are not living in, for a relative
--everyone knows about this, as witness, yes? Would they put this in writing for court evidence?
Unless the mortgage holder agrees to transfer it to you, without any papers stating it was your Mom's wishes, you could find yourself entirely re-purchasing it at market rates, if you choose to keep it.
OTherwise, you have paid out plenty money from your pockets, for other's benefits--
--as long as that is OK with you, fine.
At some point, it starts appearing more like you have been suckered.
The more likley is, Mom will need higher-levels of care in a nursing home, and the equity in that house will help pay for that nursing homje care.
Used to be, some folks simply signed the deed or documents to their homes, over to the SNF they went to live in, up front.
OTH...
A couple hard-line financial recovery measures might be:
[Option 1]: You could, with your documented payments for services rendered, put a lien on her property's equity, so that when it is sold, you get paid back.
[Option 2]: Ask your County offices for a copy of the local rules governing "Adverse Posession". IF you have been paying the property taxes annually for long enough, and otherwise complying with the number and type of other rules to qualify, it is possible,
IF you wanted to pursue it,
to file a Squatter's Rights case: an Adverse Possession.
You have been providing care, Gratis, for an amount of time, and possibly also
paying taxes and mortgage payments on it, plus
whatever else out of pocket expenses for Mom.
IF that property is in your interests to obtain, those might be ways to do it, right out from under her nose, IF you qualify.
That would make sure that you got it,
and you could then will it or give it to your Niece, as Mom had discussed...
IF you gave it to your Niece,
the mortgage payments are then hers, right?
Otherwise, that is a BIG gift to her;
----sounds like it is mostly a gift from you, NOT your Mom, really?
It is perhaps time to forget about what your Mom says.
She is, from your descriptions, unable to be rational, nor take care of her business appropriately.
It is possible [?] that she needs evalauted to have the County or Social Worker assign you, or someone else, as POA / Executor of her estate, making that person who decides issues for her estate, in all it's complexities, pays her bills, etc.
The longer you keep paying into that house, the larger the hole in your pocket, and the greater the vested interest in it you might have, to keep it.
Shucks, by stringing you along, long enough, YOU will have BOUGHT that place for your siblings.
Only you can determine if that is OK with you!
Mom is not who she used to be. Don't allow her behaviors to so beat you down, that you lose sight of the good things she used to do. The way things are going, it is kinda sounding like that might be happening. Her kind of behaviors can litterally drive the caregiver over the edge into insanity, even for a short time, until the caregiver can get quit of that situation,
or find ways to cope to protect their interior mind/emotions-landscape.
Please take care!
Most folks here have gone through something like you are in.
There is some very good advice o these lists!
Take heart!
{[hugs!}}
Before you see the lawyer:
1. write out your-her situation in bullet form (this will save you money explaining the situation multiple times and keep the discussion focused.
2. Word of mouth is best recommendation but if you can't get a personal recomendation interview at least 3. Many will give you a free first (short) interview.
3. find out what elder services are available in your community. Are there senior centers, meals on wheels, community transportation?
4. have a family meeting to lay out (in writing) what tasks each is willing to do and how much money each is willing to contribute
5. if she won't pay someone to do yardwork etc, ask sibllings to contribut so much a month to a pot and you hire someone to do those things (it's easier to do that for outside tasks than cleaning & cooking inside her house)
Here's a link to a great site that explains the situation quite clearly: http://elder-law.lawyers.com/Transferring-of-Assets-for-Medicaid-Look-Back-Periods.html
She needs to stop talking to you about this-it does seem abusive--a bit of splitting--by not doing anything --the assets will get divided---many who get money are in no way worthy of it.. Trust me I know I am dealing with my mothers very large estate-- she was very abusive-- made many changes-- and left some things alone-- it is a mess.
I am very sorry you are dealing with this--
I would try to get yourself paid as siblings do appear to like a caregiver type wanting too collect after the fact. if you pay her bills, pay yourself. A medi cal caregiver here in CA gets $11 to $12 dollars an hour.
The 5-year look-back is for figuring if someone qualifies or "deserves" help from the State.
If they look back, and see assets were given away or sold, that could have been used to pay for the client's needs instead of the State, they will challenge why that person needs their help.
IF assets were got-rid-of within the 5 year look-back, it is up to the person or the family to prove why the person should still get help by the State--otherwise, the State can refuse to help.
On applications to Welfare, they DO ask if there are any kinds of life insurance policies, retirement funds, Living Trusts, etc. --they ask about ALL of the possibles. IF someone has investments taht could be tapped, Welfare will usually tell people to use those up first--that is what they call "Spend-Down".
Welfare recipients are only allowed to accumulate about $1000 or $2000 in savings or in their checking account--anything over their maximum limit, they will start cutting off welfare services, all or part.
Some folks have tried to hide assets from the system, but they have your numbers; everything comes up on the computer when they go looking; hiding assets is highly inadvisable.
SOMEtimes, an elder who has been irresponsible with their assets, as long as there is supportive evidence explaining that, can still get help. My Mom disappeared $240K within about 2 years. Gave it to my siblings, handed it to beggars, bought hoards of junk, literally hiding money in batches of $10K in odd places. Bottom line, she was unreliable historian of her situation, and iresponsible handling her money. But because IF she would have allowed being assessed by a Psych Doc, to make it official that she was how she is, The State would them help her out.
But because my siblings refused to work together to get Mom the help she really needed [for a lifetime], that will not work. So she is currently living with one of them, and they can keep paying for her needs out of their pockets, since that seems to be what they want.
Getting family members to work together to get the needs met for someone who is elderly and/or disabled, can be a tough process. It was a terribly broken one in our family.
4Hope, I hope it is better in yours!
You have been going above and beyond the call of duty for a long time.
If her old will does not reflect her current wishes, the only way she can get her current wishes honored upon her death, is if she re-words her will.
She COULD make a--I think it is called a "Numismatic Will", without a lawyer.
Look up online about "Handwritten Will".
I believe those MUST be written in the person's handwriting, contain date, signature, and contain the wording that the person wants, to describe what goes to whom. A Handwritten Will canNOT be Notarized, , as that invalidates the Handwritten Will.
But those cost nothing to do.
The others can contest a handwritten will; they can contest the lawyer's will.
Both can be taken to court--the crux will be, proving your Mom is of "Sound Mind" when she handwrote the new one, and not being "coerced" by you or anyone else. She can use wording and similar layout to the existing lawyer-done will, just changing what she wants.
NO-it cannot be typed nor word-processed,
only completely hand-written in the handwriting of the person who's assets are being described.
Keep it in a safe place until it is needed.
This should work fine, IF your Mom is really talking about changing her will.
She may not be talking about that, but simply complaining and worrying over the pitfalls her kids have gotten into.
You can also look for your Local Area Agency on Aging [not the sound-alike advertized on this website], your local agency usually has volunteer lawyers come in once a week or so, for Seniors to get help from--for free--usually answering questions.
Say--Are you getting paid in any way, for taking care of your Mom?
You should be!
Any agencies know you are taking care of her long-term?
Your rebutting her statements about how much she is giving you, or that you will inherit, dol not work--verbal statements "never happened".
Further, her statements to that effect appear more like early signs that she is NOT thinking clearly. That is further supported by her complaining about your care, while praising the others who do not help her out regularly.
Please DO explore elder care facilities. You may rapidly be approaching time to move her into one. It is past-time to get Social Workers to assess her situation, and yours.
YOU can also ask for help from your local Area Agency on Aging or equivalent--for legal, regarding the house you have been living in to care for Mom, and about a more assisted living or nursing home facility for your Mom--and how that might affect where you are living.