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My mother moved in with us after my father passed and she fell down a flight of stairs (luckily no broken bones). She did not pay at beginning while I worked to get her home (several states away) ready to sell. I did all the work while working full time. I was not paid for anything (including cleaning out her home). After the sale, she did not offer to pay anything on a monthly basis. She has plenty of money and very good insurances including long term care guaranteed. 2 of my 3 siblings (all sisters) have fought me about her paying anything to help with expenses or cover her use of the space in my home. (2 bedrooms and private bath). They have told me I owe it to do this free of charge or mandated I pull up expenses from before she lived with us and compare to now so she would only pay the difference. I have stated that if she were living on her own, she would have a mortgage, utilities etc but to no avail. My mother hasn’t offered and acts oblivious to any drain this might be causing. (She has her full faculties). I’m missing work due to the stress this is causing. I’m angry and don’t know how to resolve this without creating a bigger rift within the family than the ones that were already there.


One last note. We are blessed to have a nice home and great jobs. I feel as if my siblings think that since we do have these things (we have worked very hard to get to where we are) no extra money is warranted. It’s not about the money. It’s the idea that my time and space are worth nothing in their eyes. None have contributed with anything since day 1. One sister has been there emotionally but that’s the extent.

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I would suggest talking with an elder care attorney and/or local Dept. of aging for help. Your mom should have will and POAs [financial and health]. If they are not done, your ability to make decisions is very limited. Someone also needs to look at her long term care insurance to see what it covers when and where. Some provide for in-home care and/or facility. You probably also need to talk with her doctor[s] to determine diagnosis and prognosis of health issues. Even tho it does not sound like your siblings do not want to cooperate with you, it is probably best to try and develop a plan for how to provide for your mom and what everyone's responsibilities are; if that isn't workable it is up to you -not them- to determine how you provide for her care and whether she should share in expenses. Your first priority should be to take care of you and your family. It sounds like you are doing your best and that is all you can expect of yourself; don't let others interfere with that.
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It sounds like your siblings don't want the work of caring for her. I think either in home care or assisted living or a nursing home would be a better idea if they refuse to step up to the plate when it comes to helping out.
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my sisters and I share care of my mother and part of her pension goes to support this. I think you need to offer this to your sisters so that whoever has More m then she gets that part of he pension. We do 3 months each so that Mum gets to stay in 3 different states and catch up with all 3 of us. My Mum has dementia which makes the caring a lot more tricky.
once you have had the discussion with your sisters then you need to have the discussion with your mother.
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earlybird Jun 2021
Tireddaughter,
Wonderful you and sisters all work together for the benefit of your mother. So nice to hear.
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I do understand your anger and frustration. What I'm hearing is that you want your siblings to help out and I sense more anger towards them and just frustration that every one just assumes you will continue to do what you've been doing, while they do nothing to help.
What I find interesting is that you're about ready to implode over this but you're still waiting for them to offer knowing that isn't going to happen.
Why not set up a family conference and very simply say I've done my part, I love my mother (because I can tell that you do), but it time for her other children to pay on what they owe. I've been paying on what I owe voluntarily, with love for 5 years, it's time for one of you to step up and care for her awhile. Which of you is it going to care for her now?

If they balk at caring for her, you can say but you owe her as much as I did.

Bless your mother's 85 year old heart. Would'nt she feel just awful if she thought she'd become a burden to you in any way?
Realistically speaking have you discussed this with your Mother?
She doesn't have to take on a mortgage, there are Senior 55+ Communities, Assisted Living or Personal Care Homes? Before your bottled up anger causes you to scream regrettables that can't be taken back at your precious Mother, the woman who raised you. How about being more assertive in gaining back your autonomy and some freedom. It sounds to me like your simply burnt out from being the sole caregiver.

I live in a 55+ Community so I know what I'm talking about when I say some of them have 70/30 and 60/40 rental apartments which means she could get an apartment for of 30% or 40% regular rentals and some like mine are very nice and encourage independent active living. My apt is a 70/30 and I pay 30% of $973. and my electric bill. so I pay about $180 per month on a 2 bdrm 2 ba apartment one bath is disability accessible with a walk in shower that has a built in bench and I pay about $80 monthly on electric by averaging it over 24 months.

The 55+ community I'm in has friendly people, is quiet and gated, has a dog park, allows small pets with pet deposit and pet rent, has a park with winding side walks, bbq grills, a porch with chairs and tables, a gazebo, ramps everywhere, handicap parking, a pool, scheduled activities, a club house with small business ctr, small library, continental breakfast bar in small dining area and a small recreation room behind the offices and conference room. Before COVID-19 it was a very busy club house. It is lovely here. Perhaps your mother would enjoy an apartment like this where she could mix and mingle with others. In many you can have a roommate on your lease or a 40 yr + caregiver in a 2 bdrm. apartment, and I forgot to mention our community vegetable garden tenant volunteers take care of.

There are assisted living apartments that vary some. The ones I visited are a little expensive but they all share certain features 2+ stories have elevators, tenants may have caregivers and visitors, come and go as they please, staff are present 24/7 at many which most often includes an RN, meals may be taken in the community dining room at an extra charge and must be reserved in advance, but tenants have kitchenettes in their studio or 1 bdrm apartments.

There are usually nice gardens to visit in, sometimes a spa or a pool. Usually a van that can be scheduled for medical visits, groceries and group activities off site.

I am pointing out options short of a personal care home or a nursing home. Their is also respite care which may be used to give you a short break.

And then there is always the option of sending your siblings a bill for their portion of housing and caregiving for your mother. Although from what you said that would not real any more than their angry comments but then again it might be a reality check for them.

Anyway, I hope my empathy & understanding if what your going through & the stress of your situation, added suggestions & housing options helped.
B
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Bestkept1 Jun 2021
Hi there! I'm new to this Forum but I just want to say that you took the words completely out of my mouth with your advice for sandrambernard.
Her situation is very similar to what my youngest sister and I have to deal with when it came to providing quality care for our mother who had spent almost 12 years in a Nursing Home facility when she really didn't need to be there for half of that time. Usually the ones who complain the loudest and the most are the ones who are NOT willing to help out with either the care, the finances, Dr. appointments, medication, transportation, Nothing. My sister and I also tried to get our older 4 sisters to work with us by taking turns having mom stay with each of us for a specified period of time. That way they could experience first hand how much goes into the whole process but they even refused to agree to that. They initially did eventually agree she could stay for a 2 week visit with them instead of 2 months but at the last minute the backed out on that. For almost 1 year after moving our mother from a facility one of my older sisters did allow her to live in her home (but she took ALL of our mothers monthly income about $900) and tried to justify it by saying that's what the Nursing Home was doing for room and board so she should be able to as well. Our mother almost died at her home from a bowel obstruction which ruptured and forced emergency surgery and 6 week long near death stay in the hospital. Thank God she's much better now and living in Assisted Housing in a Senior Complex. Her physical and mental health are so much better now too. Her doctors told us getting her away from a toxic environment was the main key to mom's miraculous recovery. My younger sister and I limit mom's phone contact when our older sisters begin to get toxic and mom has learned to not take their calls if they start to irritate her or get her upset. We are so proud of her.
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My suggestion: "Mom, let's work out the best way for you to handle your financial situation. Would you like to help pay for the bills and stay here or would you rather be somewhere where you could use your long term health care plan?" We'll support either decision you make and help you carry it out. My husband and I decided that such and such would be a fair amount for you to pay to help cover the bills if you choose to stay here. Just take some time to think about it and we will support whatever decision you make. I love you!"
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I don't get it that siblings think you owe mom more than they do, but if that's how they feel.... crazy, I agree. People who think like that are concerned about the 'what will be left' for them in the end. They don't step up when the real work starts, but they sure pay attention to what gets spent to do it. Lots of advice from the sideline, but offer no assistance. Useless as boobs on a boar hog.

Take away all the expenses you had to pay before mom got there that really didn't change after she got there - your mortgage, insurance, prop taxes, car pmts, etc. Look at expenses that could have increased after she came - light bill, water bill, gas, internet (if you added other equipment for her benefit) and add those up. They should be divided between the number of people who live in your house and split in that manner. Meaning if there are only 3 in the house and light bill is $300 - her payment that month to the light bill is $100. Make payments directly to light co each month and you have an ongoing record of that expense - and how it fluctuates like any light bill would. Do the same for all other expenses that are shared.

For now she is lucid and (I assume) in pretty good health. As her personal needs increase, use her money to pay additional costs that are solely for her care. She has the money and that's what it is for. Don't hold back on what she needs in that department - in home care, cleaning, personal attendant.

Additionally, since she is in pretty good shape now - she needs to be visiting her other kids now while she can. THEY OWE her as much as you do. Nothing wrong with spending a few weeks to a month with each of them while your house remains as home base.
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Baubi62 Jun 2021
Great ideas! Love it. Keep your attitude.
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Imho, you should not give your sisters another thought since they did not help out and are no likely to do so. As your mother is able to foot some of the financials, set a sum owed to you and do not waiver.
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Tell them you are more than happy to trade places. They can take her rent free.
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NeedHelpWithMom Jun 2021
Amen!
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You have very selfish siblings . I would pack up moms belongings and move her in with one
of your sisters . What they are doing is trying to let her keep as much of her money so try will inherit more. I don’t care what they say it’s not fair for you to pay everything and have your mother live there free with you and your sisters have no responsibility towards her your not an only child so why try and act like one.
She should help you pay elect water if you have a mortgage she should help with that also. Sit her down and figure out what would be a fair price for her to pay. Don’t let people make you live with guilt . No one lives free these days . only my opinion good luck to you
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We all have different resources, both human and financial, when families make these types of decisions, which-if possible- should meet the needs of the family caretaker and of the person in their current state, not the person pre-dementia.
One size does not fit all.
My mom saved all her life so she and her kids didn't have to worry if she needed assistance in her later years. It's still important to her to have her ''own place''. She is flourishing in a dementia focused AL, vs. our time during Covid, when she spent the day sitting on my sofa playing online solitaire, without any interaction beyond what I could briefly spare during my 50 hour work week. She was atrophying, and now she's even sticking to a shower schedule(!). She would never want my job performance to be affected by her care, or for me to spend my own savings when she has the means to be responsible for herself.
To each their own...
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So are siblings hoping to save all of mom's funds so they get a bigger share when she dies?
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Since you work full time, may I suggest that it may be time for mom to move into a senior community that is near you AND that she pay for it.
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Forgot to bring a couple extra points, but I was rudely interrupted by my mother’s insistence to want to do number two, which I am the lucky, and only recipient of the responsibility to and from.
First, those that not so subtly make you feel like you are God’s appointee to have your considerate mother under your roof, are just talking jive. If you feel the situation is not to your family’s liking, but most important it is not a matter of assets since mother has apparently enough moola to her name, then it is time to part in the most cordially of terms. The long distance disapproval of your sisters, who sound a little like Cinderella’s step sisters, mean that perhaps it is time for their collective selves bring mama into their homes, and show the world how is done with class above the rest. Do not let those opinions quoting the bible, from the wanna be saints in this community, make you feel any more guilty than you are probably feeling by now. Your life, your choice, perfect or imperfect, whatever is written in your heart that’s all that matters, and like I said, since apparently money is not the culprit of the problem, there are many dynamic communities filled with activities and interesting people that would most certainly thrill and entertain her age group in more ways than one. Best of the best.
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One other thing...I do not understand where your stress is coming from. Go you work and let your mother do her own thing, yes , in your house. If you were not home obsessing over this you not be stressed. So basically Get A Life!
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Isthisrealyreal May 2021
Wow, quoting scripture and judging like a pharisee. You should be ashamed of yourself.
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Sorry to be the bearer of bad news....But you should be ashamed of yourselves! This is your mother ! She gave you life, cared for you, let you take up space in her house and basically sacrificed her life for you as well as your siblings. She did not put you up for adoption when there were days she was sick of you. She was there for you through thick and thin. You need to thank GOD you all have your health and you have a good income and nice roof over your head. Thank Him daily for all your blessings. STOP FEELING SORRY FOR YOURSELF!!!!
I was not so fortunate ...My mother had Alzheimers at a young age my sister and I never put her away. This care is a 24/7 commitment but we took turns and made it work. She passed and 5 years later my dad passed.. we cared for him at home as well, although his passing was more sudden. "Honor your father and mother" Exodus 20:12
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earlybird May 2021
Hey Cookie, take it easy on the poster please. Every situation is different. She is not feeling sorry for herself but venting. Wonderful you took care of your parents but not everyone is qualified to be a good caregiver. It takes a load of patience, kindness, time and love. Some had not so good lives as youngsters and I certainly can understand why they choose not to get too involved, others place their loved one in a facility to get professional care and still make sure their needs are met, visiting, checking in, doing errands. and much more. Please do not be so judgmental. It is hard enough for all of us caregivers and they need a safe place to vent.
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Long Term Care Guaranteed? Sisters opinions from afar demanding your unwilling and unnecessary acceptance to support your mother, who apparently with her sound mind finds her presence in your home perfectly acceptable? Don’t think so.
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Sandra,

This doesn’t have anything to do with your sisters. Mom is living with you, not them. It’s between you and your mother.

Forget about your sisters. If they haven’t offered to help by now, they most likely won’t start now.

Tell mom that things have changed. Choose a price that you feel is fair for her to pay and ask for her to pay it. If she doesn’t find this satisfactory, ask her to move.

As far as your sisters go, ask them if they want to house mom for free. I bet the answer is no way. If they say yes they would, tell them you will have her bags packed and she will be ready for them to pick her up.

Wishing all the best to you. I feel your pain. I took care of my mom without the help of siblings. When my family criticized me, I told mom to go live with my brother. After that, he was singing a different tune. Only then did he realize how hard it was to be a primary caregiver. People who have never done caregiving don’t have a clue as to how hard it is. I know that I had no idea how hard it would become being a full time caregiver before I did it.
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Sandra, I think the key word that jumps out here to me is that you're waiting for your mom to 'offer' to pay, but she may need to be made more aware of how you feel. This could be a generational thing, or just lack of awareness on your mom's part. I'm guessing that your mother didn't have children as part of her retirement plan, so she may just be blissfully unaware. However, it is a drain on you financially and time-wise, and it's affecting your relationship with her. Is this something you can talk about with her?
Your conversations about fair rent seem to be with your sisters, who have should have NO SAY in a fair market value contract their competent mother enters into with you. This is between you and your mom. Additionally, if they disagree with what's proposed, then the burden is on them to do the market research or to offer alternatives, not expect you to justify the amount. If they truly have concerns, use a elder law attorney to hash out a fair contract.
If they argue, and IF you decide to engage, point out to your sisters that you have been paying out of pocket funds since 2017 that have not been recouped--how would they like to divide those up amongst yourselves so that you may be reimbursed fairly, since they don't want mom to pay?
Look up the going price for a comparable apartment in your area, divide your utilities by the number of users in your home, and factor in groceries. Pull up some rents from IL/AL places (you may have to get on a mailing list to unlock them, but just tell them you have no intent to move mom soon). Present these to your Mom with a proposed rent payment IF you choose to continue with her living in your home. If you want her out, then gently tell her that now that covid has passed it's time for her to find a nice place of her own. Set a deadline for your talk and potential move. Good luck.
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I think given she has money and no one else but YOU is helping her, I think you are entitled to be "paid" for your services. It is only fair and right. No one should impose on you when others refuse to help. What you do with that money is your choice if you don't need it - give it to charity. When there are families, EVERY MEMBER MUST BE WILLING TO HELP IN SOME WAY. It is only fair and just. Get something set up at once, perhaps with the help of an eldercare specialist or have a will where you receive the bulk of what she has for what you do for her. If your siblings are not cooperating, don't bother with them - there are other good people in the world to be invovlved with
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Baubi62 Jun 2021
Very good advice Riley2166, I never thought to mention an Attorney who is an Elder Care Specialist.
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It sounds like you all have alot to be thankful for.
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Baubi62 Jun 2021
Yes They really do. My mom was 53 when Cancer took her home to be with God. Not a day since 1996 goes by that I don't think about her and the fact she was taken so soon from us
Not a week goes by that I don't wish for another 5 weeks, 5 months, or 5 years that she could be here with me, loved by me, cared for by me. She was much too young when she was taken. I really wanted her to live longer for me.
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I'm sorry for the stress & family drama that you are having. Getting your mom to pay should have started when she moved in, however it's not too late. Meet with your mom & share your thoughts & concerns. What she would do if her health declines? She should be providing for her own living arrangements especially since she can afford it. You have 3 choices. 1)No change. 2)Have her pay you compensation for room & board from now on. 3)Tell her that you'll help her find an apartment or independent senior living housing in a retirement community, whether it's a cottage or apartment. Hopefully when you sit down and speak with your mom a resolution will be made W/O drama. Your siblings don't need to be involved as they haven't help you out since mom moved in. You need to do what's best for you & your family.
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You are clearly being taken ADVANTAGE of! Do you want your mother to continue living with you? It doesn’t matter how much she would pay you, don’t t you want your freedom? If the answer is YES, then do something about it. Tell her she will need to move. You will help her find an apartment, independent living or she can move in with one of your sisters ( it’s their turn)! Yes it will be a difficult conversation but you have to do it. You will be relieved in the end.
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One way to look at it is that your mom. Cooked cleaned and made sure that all you children were taken care of in many ways. I am 77 and live with my Youngest daughter. I do help with some things. Your mom may feel that eventually you and others will be helped after. Not only that there may be a time she may have to go to covelescent. With Medicare she will get help. You need to find out what is available for her as she grows older. She just needs your love right now.
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Isthisrealyreal May 2021
I wish that I could look back and see that my mom took care of me. If she would have cared the least little bit, her future care would look very different.

Not every woman that bears children is a mom or mother in any stretch of the imagination. So please keep in mind that not everyone has had any positive experiences with their incubators.
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What's your husband's take on this setup? This affects him as well as yourself. Are you POA for your mother? If not, who is and why is she not staying with them? If she has plenty of money, as you say, you might consider assisted living. My mother who is in her late 90s has lived i assisted living for 8 years so far. She has enough to pay the monthly expenses with some left over. She stayed with us for a while but it was stressful for both her and us. She seems to be doing better at the assisted living facility but all facilities are different. Some are good and some bad. The one she is in has changed companies three times and though it is currently not bad it is not quite as good as when she first moved in.

If your sisters have a problem with you moving her to a facility I'd tell them it is either there or your place. It sounds like your sisters may not want you to use your mother's money to pay for expenses because that would be less for them whenever she passes on.
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You are in a difficult situation, but you need to be paid by your Mom for the difference in the costs of your expenses. Write down what it costs for your mother to live with you and show that to her and your siblings. It doesn't matter if you have a generous income or not. Those are not your expenses and your Mom is financially able to support herself. If she lived in a long term care facility she would have to. Tell them either they or your Mom needs to pay for it. Mostly likely your siblings will say your Mom. Also show them the bills you paid to move her and clean out her house. Then show your siblings and her the amount you expect every month. Have you thought of having her move to an assisted living facility? This would let her have responsibility to pay for her own expenses. It would probably get you off the hook with your siblings who feel no responsibility to help. They are keeping their own money right now and not concerned with your expenses. You sound emotionally drained already. I hope this has given you some help. Sometimes when someone is presented with a more expensive bill (such as an assisted living which she has money for) they may pay the least expensive one more easily.
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I read some of these suggestions and I agree somewhat. I think you need to discuss this with your mother. If your stressed get a health care worker for her. You said she has the insurance for that. That may take away some of the stress. I understand about siblings as long as they don't have to deal with it their fine. I have a situation similar. My siblings live in other states and I was stressed about my father and asked for help. Nothing from them. Just my husband and I left to do everything for my father. Now, my brother moved in with my father because he fell on hard times. Now, that he's better financially I think he should contribute more financially for my father because he's living in his home rent free. When my father can't pay his bills I make up the difference. Which is hard on us trying to make sure we have enough to pay our bills. I thought we would have some help. But this doesn't help. I hope things work out for you. Maybe your mother will understand.
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It doesn’t hurt your mom to help buy groceries or pay electric bill.
Personally I’d be thinking your siblings are worried about you taking away from what they would get after she’s gone.
It also wouldn’t hurt your siblings to let her stay with them for a month at a time
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My 94 year old mother pays the utilities and I get $50 a month for toiletries, etc. I then claim her as a dependent at tax time because I pay the mortgage and buy all groceries. She has a small pension and social security, so these expenses leave her with enough money left over to spend on her other children and grandchildren, as well as contributing to her savings. She "shares" rather than paying rent and it keeps us both feeling like everyone is contributing, so our respect for each other is well preserved.

I don't know that this is possible for you and your family, but it does work for our whole family, even my siblings who do not contribute.
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A tough, unforgiving situation. Maybe your sisters are fighting this so hard, is because they may be scared she'll come dump on them. If she's "all there" as you state, do your research on places possible for her to go - apartment, assisted living, whatever, right down to the penny on what it will cost her to be put there. Cover every thing, right down to cost of toilet paper,! Then make a detailed list of what it's costing you - financial and emotional - for her to free load off you, cause that's what she's doing - where is her money going? Sit her down, be firm and show her the options she has. She either moves out, or she starts paying you a similar amount. Don't let her start boo-hooing, that will end your talk before it gets started. Know it's your Mama, loads of love there, but it's not totally up to one alone to support a parent. Does she help with household chores? I'm betting not. She's "got it made," at the sole expense of you. What does she do with her income every month? I think I'd be asking that question, but I don't think you're gonna be happy with her response. She's walking all over you, and will continue to do so, until YOU make a change. Now, before you drop dead from stress. Yes, I know how this sounds, but a deep dark grave is unthinkable silent. Stand your ground.
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"It’s not about the money. It’s the idea that my time and space are worth nothing in their eyes. None have contributed with anything since day 1. One sister has been there emotionally but that’s the extent."

This issue is more about being validated than anything else. Personally I don't believe your mother owes you money because you shut down her home and invited her to live with you - that was your choice. And you admit you don't need the money - so why are you getting sick over this? If you really don't want her with you, then find a good assisted living place for her, where she can use her own funds and still live in a safe environment.
Your siblings will NEVER change their minds. You will read about hundreds of caretakers (including me) who has done everything for their parent(s) will little to no help or acknowledgement from their family. The more you take on, the more it becomes the norm. You can fight about it, change your circumstances, or accept or make peace with it. Please know that you will be blessed for all that you've done in taking care of your Mom, regardless of who acknowledges it.
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