Follow
Share

My brother has lived with my mom his whole life because he is not independent. She gave him POA last September. She had been diagnosed with Dementia 1 that spring. Then her phone disappeared last winter. Mom asked me last December to see me saying Randy needed a break. The day before she was due he canceled her visit. He did this last July. The last time I saw her in normal circumstances, I took them out to lunch in September when I was there, I live 3 plus hours away. I wanted to drive up on Christmas when he cancelled but he told me she wasn’t well anytime I suggested coming up. I talk to her her several times a week, usually 3 to 4 times and we have nice long visits. Or did.



He sold her house on 2/4and it is rented to back to them until 3/4. He has no forwarding address and plans to live on the road. My mom called me surprised on2/2 and told me my brother told her that she has 30 days to move. I was concerned he hadn’t told me. They had talked about moving. Mom wants to live in a house but my brother plans to buy an RV and live with her there. He had kept this a secret even upon direct asking after mom had called me. It was a private sale and not listed. I opened an APS case that now has its own life.



I drove up, it is a three hour drive to try to see my mom. They were in the living room but the drapes were closed and so I talked to my mom through the window. We both told each other we love each other. Then my brother came out and threatened my life and pointed a gun at me. After that I was going back to my car and I saw my mom walking with her cane around the side of the house to see me. We clung to each other, the police came it was a complete spectacle. The police said that with my brother being POA they could not interfere and it is a civil matter. Even though it is in her name, he can use lethal force because he lives there too.



I did update the APS case. They told me after they move my only recourse is to file a missing person’s report. I miss talking to my mom on the phone, our shared laughter and I fear I will never see her again. He plans to live with her on the road in an RV. I am sick.



However, I am so glad we had our time to hug and hold each other. I kept telling her how much I love her, stroking her face, kissing her and telling her every time I gardened I would think of her and that she would always be in my heart. I will always remember although he had pulled the door to keep her coming out to me that she went through the back door and around to see me. My heart is broken.

This question has been closed for answers. Ask a New Question.
Find Care & Housing
Newdawn,

If you are out there do you have any update on the hearing?
Helpful Answer (0)
Report
AlvaDeer Mar 2022
I am curious as well. I believe the final hearing was scheduled for early March. Hope all went well for all concerned.
(0)
Report
Alva, this is probably the first time in two years I've dissented with your advice.

NewDawn's issue is not about usurping his responsibility. This isn't an issue where he's choosing to put Mom in a facility and NewDawn disagrees. The issue frankly is that he's pulled a gun on an unarmed sister, and that he was fully intending to run around with an RV she paid for as her primary home.

The brother now has boundaries around buying his RV and parking it on some street in SeaTac or elsewhere with mom wandering away as he waves his guns at fellow homeless people. The TRO through her is forcing his accountability and she should continue to make sure that she at least knows where Mom is and can call her when she wants. This is what most people want versus Brother, who sounds like he is clinically insane.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report
Newdawn24 Feb 2022
Thank you. I do believe family conflict is always hard on everyone. I could no longer safely try to talk with my brother after he credibly threatened my life. My mom’s safety is at risk in moving around in an RV and as Peggysue mentioned living on the side of the road. My brother has even mentioned more than once that this was what he was thinking to save costs. For my mom’s comfort, this would mean no running water or heat.

The civil case is to establish visiting access, to know where she is and for a financial accounting. I did try to talk to my brother multiple times and this legal matter was not taken lightly.

I don’t know what the courts will decide but as another person said, let them do the heavy lifting.
(2)
Report
See 2 more replies
The brother is denying this daughter ANY access to her mother. Mother doesn't have to choose to live with the daughter; she just needs to be able to SEE the daughter.

He threatens her with a gun when she tries to visit? Yes, I'd get APS and the courts involved. He's either mentally unstable, hiding some financial hanky-panky or both.
Helpful Answer (6)
Report
gladimhere Feb 2022
Absolutely, Barb!
I do not understand the back off comments at all. Rather shortsighted!
(3)
Report
See 3 more replies
Call the DA and advise him/her that the police are making prosecutor decisions outside of their training.
POAs do not negate criminality and they do NOT automatically make an incident a "civil matter".
Check out what former prosecuting DA Paul Greenwood has to say about it. He was the prosecutor for San Diego county and you can find his videos on YT.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report
Newdawn24 Feb 2022
I have heard from others that the decision was questionable. My brother did the classic “I am in fear of my life” and she was trying to break in through the window.

A person I know with a criminal law background in WA state, said they didn’t want to get involved. Since we both had called 911, they let me talk to mom for a while and get some of my possessions such as pictures,etc that he had dumped on the lawn.

Thank you, I will look up the YT clips.
(2)
Report
NewDawn, go ahead with your court meetings, but for myself, your saying that Mom doesn't wish to be with you, and wants to stay with brother, means to me that right now, your Mom being the most important one her, this war is going to tear her to shreds.
Were it me I would back away now. Your contact with Mom ended with her terrified over threats. It isn't worth it.
Just my own opinion. She is, at this point, all I care about.
I would ask my brother if I could send her cards, and would he consider reading them and passing to her your love. And I would back away. Anything you do is going to cause your Mom great suffering now.
I feel dreadfully sorry for you, and you must make your own decision, but that's what I would do. I have had to back away from and cut off a family member who whatever her intentions was causing a great deal of pain and dissension. It hurts. But there is peace, and the peace is plenty for me now at 80. You get too weary for all this warfare. After blood pressure bumps off the charts I knew I had to protect myself. Not everything can be fixed. So sad, but not everything can be.
I do think it is good if the court looks into the current POA status and records. Let them do it and make their judgement. I am truly frightened for your Mom if all this goes on.
We so appreciate your updating us. Most don't. It really helps, and it helps others. I am wishing you good luck with your court dates.
Helpful Answer (0)
Report
Bobby7 Feb 2022
Alva,

Are you not thinking this may be a case of undue influence and exploitation? You do not know how stable the mother is so how do you know what is tearing her to shreds. Just sayin'.
(2)
Report
See 5 more replies
ND, continue on your path, do not drop it. You are seeking important information about your mom that you are entitled to and you will NEED it at some point. If you drop it your credibility will be damaged and you would have a hard time starting it again. You want to be taken seriously. Do not waste anyone's time. Let the judge make the tough decisions.

Stop feeling guilty, that is exactly what your brother wants. Living with him is not mom's only option. He may have done something illegal regarding the house. Coerce mom? Threaten mom? Not legal deed?
Helpful Answer (2)
Report
AlvaDeer Feb 2022
I just feel were this me I would back away. The Mom is being torn between these two. That is going to just destroy the Mom. To be frank, I think it is in her best interests that the daughter back away. Only my opinion Perhaps ask the brother in a card if she can send a card here and there, and leave Mom in peace now.
I WOULD attend the hearing to see if there is anything illegal going on, but to be frank, at this point, to me, the Mom matters most. The most recent interaction may have comforted our OP, but may have destroyed Mom.
Just my opinion. This is a no win situation. Her Mom doesn't want to be with her. So this is a fight for nothing.
(0)
Report
See 1 more reply
Update: Through the help of a police officer who staked out my mom’s old house while my brother is packing and moving things, I was able to get an address and phone number for my mom yesterday. I called the room number and was able to talk to my mom for about 20 minutes before my brother returned from being out.

We had a nice conversation and she was happy to talk with me. Then after my brother had arrived, she called me back leaving an angry message saying that my brother said he would no longer take care of her.

I tried calling the room twice this morning with no answer.

This is going to be difficult and I am wondering if it is worth it. My mom doesn’t want to live with me. She has lived with my brother almost her whole life and that is who she wants to live with and she was so angry when he threatened to quit taking care of her. I have accepted that and have asked for phone contact and visits but based on yesterday, I can see that this will be aggravating for her because my brother doesn’t want her talking to me.

My hearings are coming in a few weeks which ask to know where she resides and a way to visit her. I don’t know what to do.

P.S. The officer I called once I found out my brother had moved my mother was one of the officers at the scene when he pulled at gun. He went to get a neighbor statement about my brother moving my mom without giving me an address and happened to find out that my brother was moving items from the home. He waited for him and got the address and phone number because that is part of the temporary order requirement I got last Tuesday. He was so kind to wait for my brother to return and get that for me. Those twenty minutes of talking to my mom was nice.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report
Jada824 Mar 2022
Your brother is controlling your mom & scaring her because he doesn’t want you to speak to her.

Your Mom is siding with him because she is afraid of making him upset…..he must make her life a living hell but yet she doesn’t want to get him in trouble or go against him.

The exact same thing happened to me & I didn’t get to see my mom for over 4 years. I wish you luck.
(1)
Report
The order has many requirements. He has to give my mom phone access and I will get her phone number and make sure my number is in her phone.

Also, I am allowed to ask for Law Enforcement Officer protection when I go to the home.

This is one of the hardest things I have ever done. I didn’t see another option when my brother wouldn’t talk to me, let my mom talk to me and then used violence when I came by as planned. My things were on the lawn. I just couldn’t bear imagining my mom trying to get around in an RV and getting up and down the steps with her cane. I need to know she is somewhere safe and can have some stability in her life.

I still don’t know the final outcome. We will set a final hearing date in March that allows my brother and mother to appear. I am concerned about what he will tell my mom once they are served. I do think this will be upsetting to her. She feels quite independent and I think it will be hard for her to be considered a Vulnerable Adult.

Thank you for the questions and concern. Will update post when there is news. Newdawn
Helpful Answer (4)
Report
PeggySue2020 Feb 2022
Hi Newdawn, didn't you say they were renting out their former home until 3/8? What is the plan for their stuff and their residence after that assuming the hearings have not yet wrapped up?
(0)
Report
NewDawn, I'm glad that things seem to be proceeding in a good direction.

I implore you to take either a friend or law enforcement with you when you visit mom. Brother is likely to be madder than a wet hen.
Helpful Answer (5)
Report

Good news! The commissioner signed both orders as written during the temporary emergency hearing. We are scheduled for 3/8 for the final orders and hearing.

The temporary orders signed today allow me access to my mom and require many things of my brother including he must temporarily relinquish his weapons. I need to wait until I know my brother has been served with the temporary orders and relinquishes his weapons before I can see my mom but this is such a good start.

Thank you all. I am relieved. He is not allowed to leave the state, block access to her etc. This is the best news I have had in just over two weeks. Newdawn
Helpful Answer (7)
Report
PeggySue2020 Feb 2022
Within the new order, are you allowed to get her a phone?
(2)
Report
For those of you that have kindly expressed concern in my situation, my hearing for an emergency temporary order on this afternoon docket. The docket starts at 2 and I don’t know when my case will be heard. It has protections for my mom and an opportunity to talk to and see my mom.

As you can imagine I have a lot of nerves but am hopeful since the requests are reasonable. For those interested, there has been some movement in the USA regarding abuse of caregivers etc keeping family from elderly. Some states have passed statutes and there is a Kasey Kasem (sp?) website about this issue.

I will share the results of the hearing on this site.

For those that have mentioned a troll, I only wish this was a troll and my mom was safe and sound. It was mentioned on the post before the altercation on 2/16 where I created this post.

if you can, please keep me in your thoughts and prayers for the hearing period starting at 2 pm. Pacific time. Thanks, Newdawn
Helpful Answer (6)
Report

There has to be something recorded, that's where Zillow gets their information.

Are property transactions listed in a newspaper in the area?
Helpful Answer (2)
Report

Thank you for advice. I have written a lot down but will do more. I had not thought he could hurt my mom seriously but you are right, he could. I know he is verbally abusive.

I just found the sale amount yesterday via Zillow. It was finally posted. The deed information I found earlier just said who the house was sold to when he sold it and type of deed.

My attorney plans to schedule an emergency hearing on Tuesday and once I have an outcome I will post.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report
AlvaDeer Feb 2022
Thank you for your update. Count me appalled that this man is a liar, saying you have tried to break into their home, and that he has held a gun on you and threatened your life--to all of this the Police and APS apparently completely uninterested. Again, keep all your diaries, records of police reports, and do not go to that home to attempt visitation without someone with you. I am glad of the hearing and your updates. And yes, a madman with a gun is a madman with a gun; anything can happen.
(3)
Report
You say that your brother was allowed by the police to threaten you with a gun and with shooting you because he "said" you were trying to break in. One thing here now. You don't visit without being accompanied. This kind of a lie is serious business. I am worried now about your Mom being with someone she may be terrified about and in fact murder/suicide is not uncommon in this day and age. It is usually someone who has out of control anger issues trying to "get back at" others they feel in their paranoia "done them wrong". You need some serious law help here and a good diary, I hope, has been kept about you about all actions and interactions. They are, if in a composition book, with no tear out sheet, in ink with no erasers, invaluable in court cases such as this.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report
Newdawn24 Feb 2022
I am too. this is why I hired a lawyer once I found someone who would handle this case. It is serious. Thanks for the advice in a composition book.
(2)
Report
I'm with Glad on this.   Having worked in transactional law for years, I prepared and saw a lot of deeds, including reviewing title work prior to transaction closing.   I never saw a deed w/o a sale price. 

When transferring to trusts or family members, the nominal $1.00 sale price can be used, though.

But I don't understand why it wouldn't be a necessity.   Sale price information is used for tax calculations.    I would think that at some point someone in the recorder's office will discover that the deed was improperly prepared.

Deeds in my experience always have a section indicating who prepared the deed.  Check that out.  It might even be that the brother prepared it, w/o knowing anything about real estate transactional law.

Also ask your attorney about this.
Helpful Answer (4)
Report
Newdawn24 Feb 2022
I was able to find the sale price with Zillow yesterday. It finally posted. I did find the deed, parties, type of deed etc online through the recorders’ office but there was not a column for sale price. Anyway, thank you for information.
(1)
Report
ND, in my state, anyway, deeds always list the sale price. Are you able to search clerk and recorder documents by last name? Narrow the search by a time frame? Is there a field to enter grantor/grantee last name? On the assessor's site, there may be information on the reception numbers of documents transferring the property. Keep digging.

If mom is in king county
https://kingcounty.gov/services/gis/PropResearch.aspx
Helpful Answer (2)
Report
gladimhere Feb 2022
ND, what sort of deed did you find? Is it a warranty deed? Quit claim deed? Deed of trust? Bro may have downloaded a deed form from legalzoom that may not even be in legalese and format required by the state.
(3)
Report
Hey, thank you all. I did find a lawyer who is going to file a temporary injunction for me so that he needs to give a permanent address or have her live with me until he gets one. Also, he has prevailed in setting up visitation in elderly situations. I don’t know the outcome but I do have hope.

APS was simply telling me that if she wants to live in an RV she can. If my brother wants to buy and RV and she doesn’t mind, he can. It doesn’t really take into account the duress of living with him. It took a while but I got a referral from a family law firm that I called.

Once the order is filed and there is a hearing I will update.
Helpful Answer (8)
Report

Look up the deed on the clerk and recorders site. You should be able to learn to whom the house sold and for how much. If not market value, then that could cause brother problems of financial exploitation and Breach of Fiduciary Duty (a felony) Is the new 5th wheel in his name? I imagine that mom's money paid for it. Another breach. Get busy. Go to DMV for paper work on the vehicle.
Helpful Answer (4)
Report
Newdawn24 Feb 2022
I have looked up the deed. It just tells me who the house was sold to but does not give sold information. This was a private sale. I was able to hire an attorney who will file a temporary injunction immediately on Tuesday because Monday is a National holiday.

Thank you for your advice. After the hearing for the temporary order I will update post.
(3)
Report
May I suggest getting to a lawyer now! It doesn't even have to be an eldercare lawyer, though that would be better. Explain the circumstances. It sounds as if your mother is essentially being held hostage by your brother.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report

The police and the APS were not interested that your Mom wishes to see you and hug you, and the brother held a gun on you and threatened your life?
Do you plan to pursue guardianship, or is your Mom considered to be competent in her choice of her POA?
You say that "even though it is in her name" (the house) the authorities told you that he lives there and can ask you to leave. This confuses me because I thought that you told me in your last post that the brother had got POA, had SOLD the house, and that they were going on the road.
I am quite confused at how the authorities are handling this, and am wondering what I am missing in this.
I am very sorry for your grief in all this.
Helpful Answer (6)
Report
Newdawn24 Feb 2022
Yes. The house which was hers was sold 2/4 and rented back to her until 3/4. It is her asset still as a rental home until then but since my brother lives there he can choose not to see me and tell me to get off the property.

They did not seem to be concerned about my mom’s wishes. They heard dementia and did not seem to hear it is level one and she can still have capacity.

The police allowed a long goodbye but said since Randy is POA it is a civil matte. I updated APS and they told me they will physically visit before they move. They have a holiday on Monday and are to call me on Tuesday 2/22.

Even though it is Elder Abuse to isolate, it doesn’t seem like it is easy to prove.

In all my conversations, I have heard it is extremely difficult to get guardianship when their is a POA. APS was updated and said they will come out and interview her before she moves but they only give reports they are not an acting agency. No one can make sure that my mom gets to call me or see me.
(2)
Report
See 1 more reply
What charges were issued against your brother for the physical and life threats?  His being a proxy under a POA has nothing to do with criminal charges, and those charges could and should be prosecuted against him.    If his case goes to trial, I would think that would invalidate his ability to continue as proxy.  

Was his gun confiscated? 

The civil matter doesn't preclude issuance and prosecution of criminal charges.

And someone who threatens someone else isn't exhibiting the mental status required of caring for another person, especially an elder person.  

You wrote:  "Even though it is in her name, he can use lethal force because he lives there too."  I question this.   Lethal force is justified only in certain circumstances, such as being attacked and when one's life is challenged.   The attempted legal force was apparently against you, and he would have to face charges for that.  

He wasn't challenging a burglar, so legal force shouldn't even come into play in rationalization of his behavior.


In addition, your last paragraph infers your acceptance of his removal of your mother from her home.   Why are you giving up so easily?   I'd fight this; with his criminal activity, you could probably get a court to vitiate any POA authority he has, perhaps get guardianship for your mother, and take control away from him.
Helpful Answer (4)
Report
Newdawn24 Feb 2022
He claims I threatened his life and was trying to break in when I was talking through the window. He is allowed to use a gun in this circumstance. It is not considered a crime.

It is not acceptance, it has been sold and is no longer her asset once the rental agreement ends 3/4. It is legally binding.

I do have some calls end to elder lawyer but have not received a call back. I have heard guardian chances are slim.
(2)
Report
I am so sorry for your situation, but you did absolutely the right thing. The mom's house even if three hours from Seattle is worth money that is supposed to pay for her to be safe and secure, not what seems to be the brother's idea of reliving his youth or dreams by moving around infinitely with an RV.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report
Newdawn24 Feb 2022
Exactly. I told my mother how much I love her and always will. I told her that my brother is keeping her from me. She said he can’t watch her all the time and she will try to call me late at night. However, she doesn’t even have her own phone. I don’t think it is realistic.

APS is supposed to call me on Tuesday. I told them once she moves there will be no permanent address.
(2)
Report
OMG! Please keep on that APS do not let it fall through the cracks! Pictures and documentation is your friend! Prayers for you and your family!
Helpful Answer (4)
Report
Newdawn24 Feb 2022
Thank you. I was just so glad to see her and hold her. It is a tough situation.
(1)
Report
This question has been closed for answers. Ask a New Question.
Ask a Question
Subscribe to
Our Newsletter