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I met a man training to be a CNA. He was already trained overseas but required retaining in English. A friend (his culture) asked if he could attend a family gathering to help his 90+ Grandfather (usually resided in a NH, little English, in a wheelchair, eating & bathroom duties required). The family felt if would be nicer for Grandfather to have regular help on the day rather than untrained relatives taking turns.
He was offered a substantial hourly rate, given the chance to meet his client beforehand, phone numbers for which people to contact immediately with any concern (who would be at the function also).
He accepted & started a wonderful (professional) relationship with this family.
The differences were that family had very clear expectations about this being a *professional* position.
It was, I think a good learning opportunity for the OP's daughter about *conflict of interest*, *duty of care* & *professional boundaries*. All of which I'm sure as a CNA come up.
I wonder if the boyfriend's family would still have asked her if she had been a hairdresser or teacher... or an IT cyber security specialist... because she was a GIRL.
She should provide them with a contract. Detail what she expects to get paid. And if she currently has a job working independently may jeopardize her current job. If she works for an agency, most agencies do not permit their employees to work privately. If she works at a facility taking time off to work for someone else may have to take vacation days to work for her boyfriends family. This leaves her with no time off and that leads to burnout. If she is working privately for boyfriends family they should cover her insurance if she is not covered by her employer if she is working on the “side”. Also, working privately she may have to wait for negative COVID-19 results before she can return to work. And would have to quarantine in the interim I think the family is trying to take advantage of her. Would they expect the same thing if she was not a CNA.
Your response really makes me see how it's "Joko98's" daughter who will get the shortest end of this stick - she has to do all that you mentioned above and she has to take the COVID tests as well as being the one who suffers from "burnout." She may want to get "out" before she gets "burned."
"Would they expect the same thing if she was not a CNA?" - excellent question!
My ILs have gotten paid 24/7 care (day a family member, night an indy) because there was no one willing to take on their "generous" offer to live there and just "help out."
For these two people, they are paying upwards of 165K annualized. Neither of them are CNAs or have any formal education in this. If they wanted CNAs, they'd probably be paying in the low $200,000s, per year, for this.
If we all didn't have our own homes, they would have just "offered a 'free' place to stay." That room's worth $1,500 and that is in pure street rent, meaning the person can go out when she wants and have guests and so forth.
That's $18,000 a year. Which is a far cry from $165,000.
It's always that they "won't last long." Well until the end you really don't know.
Then there's the factor of her having to have sex in the grandmas house and all this. Eww.
When you're young, esp, there's plenty of fish in the sea without these complications.
Another option is for her to tell them to get notebooks and she'll explain to them how they can care for their relative.
We see this kind of question and potential Cinderella arrangement periodically. I always wonder how someone has the gall to expect a potential mate for one of the family to sacrifice her time to care for someone, w/o pay.
No way should she allow herself to be manipulated!
Keep in mind that in some cultures there has been, even still is, the tradition that the oldest son acquires a wife who is to care for his parents. I've heard that many Japanese men are considered unmarriageable by young Japanese women and therefore go ahead and get mail-order brides from the Philippines and Southeast Asia.
They can 'expect' anything they want. It's up to your daughter to agree or disagree with their expectations of her!
If this were my daughter, I'd advise her to run for the hills as fast as her legs would carry her. But my daughter is famous for NOT listening to me, so...........LOL.
Also, what are the boyfriend's 'expectations' in regard to caring for his grandmother? Does HE agree with his family that it should be his girlfriend's 'job' to care for her, and if so, should she get paid?
This is an important question, really, b/c it determines HIS level of character and whether he will stand up for her or not. And if he can stand up to his family about what HE wants for himself and his future romantic relationships. Is he a mama's boy or a real man? Lots of questions for you to present to HER to think about.
Sounds like your daughter has a kind heart and pitched in when needed. Unfortunately, some people take kindness for weakness.
I am sorry that her boyfriend’s family is trying to take advantage of her kindness. By the way, what does the boyfriend think of this? Why doesn’t he tell his family that she isn’t responsible for granny’s care?
Your daughter is learning more about her boyfriend’s family and isn’t too happy with their expectations.
Her first priority is to herself. She is smart to attend college to prepare for her future.
Many times I wondered if my kids heard what I was telling them. They were listening and heard every word.
Keep the lines of communication open for your daughter to discuss her concerns.
They are 24 and 32 and still remind me of things that I said.
We teach our kids to be polite, kind and helpful.
It’s equally as important to teach them to stand up for themselves and important principles in life.
My daughters are polite, kind and helpful and often thank me for raising them to care about humanity.
They also make me giggle when they tell me that they got their sass from me! LOL
See this as an opportunity for your daughter to learn how to stand up for herself.
I have a lot of faith in the younger generation. I am often inspired by their outlook on life.
They are super smart. They grew up in a world that was never without technology.
They are not intimidated easily and are extremely creative.
They reach out to one another. It’s quite different from past generations.
She’s a wonderful, responsible and respectful youn lady. She really cares for this young man and would like to speak with all of them as adults... To act communicate her feelings. She’s dat the son. Not to be a caretaker for grandma. Crossing the line....
Joko, Your daughter’s hunch is spot on. They are using her. The job she has doesn’t matter. It’s an excuse for the family to get a free break from caring for grandma.
What would happen if she politely said she couldn’t do this anymore? It may provide an invaluable glimpse into her future with this family. If they or her new boyfriend become passive aggressive with her or downright mean, the future doesn’t sound great. There are plenty of other fish in the sea.
Thanks for the extra information, Joko. Support your daughter. I wish the son would stand up to the parents and tell them not to enlist the help of his girlfriend, who may feel obligated by her love for him. If he cannot do that, then this is a poor choice for hubby material, because if he is OK with this now he may want her to do it even more. Encourage her in her career so she will be independent and able to make decisions for herself lifelong, and encourage her to stand up for herself; if a boyfriend won't support her before marriage, he is unlikely to if the were to marry.
Judging from your responses it appears your daughter has reservations about what her boyfriends family is asking her to do. If she is feeling used that does not bode well. I hope she is able to muster the strength to set some clear boundaries and to expect support from her boyfriend.
On a more personal note, I have three adult sons and in a million years I would not impose in that way on their partners/girlfriends, nor would any of my sons tolerate such expectations. They respect the women they are with and so do I.
You’ve neglected to mention how your daughter feels about this. Is she upset and asking you for guidance on how to deal with their expectations? Or is she going along with what they want & you disagree with it?
She feels as if she’s being used. Still getting to know the family. They may be doing this because she is a CNA and thinks she doesn’t mind. This bothers her...
Tell her to tell them the bill will be in the email for her services.
You think your daughter may not be listening to you now, but she’ll become fed up at some point being an on call indentured servant. Keep telling her this arrangement is strange and outrageous until it ceases.
No. They’re been dating for 3 months. She lives with me. It was never an arrangement foe her to help. She helped on out of kindness when his dad was sick on hospital and there was no one at home. Now. It seems they expect her to jump in when they want time off ???? she’s in school and just started dating don-23 years old
Your daughter is in a new relationship and likely desperate to please her beau. So she has decided that she will take this on. When our children are grown I am of the opinion that the harder we fight them about the choices they make the more they refuse to look at what they are doing, and instead fight US, thereby painting themselves in their corner. Try some open ended questions. Such as "Do you enjoy Grandma, and caring for her? Do you feel secure in having someone to reach out to if there are problems? Are you doing this because you like doing this, or do you feel a little obligated?" And then just listen. Try not to give any input. She will be more open with you and more free to make her own decisions to stop doing this. Be certain she is left with all the pertinent phone numbers for Grandma's doc, and etc.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
He was offered a substantial hourly rate, given the chance to meet his client beforehand, phone numbers for which people to contact immediately with any concern (who would be at the function also).
He accepted & started a wonderful (professional) relationship with this family.
The differences were that family had very clear expectations about this being a *professional* position.
It was, I think a good learning opportunity for the OP's daughter about *conflict of interest*, *duty of care* & *professional boundaries*. All of which I'm sure as a CNA come up.
I wonder if the boyfriend's family would still have asked her if she had been a hairdresser or teacher... or an IT cyber security specialist... because she was a GIRL.
If she works for an agency, most agencies do not permit their employees to work privately.
If she works at a facility taking time off to work for someone else may have to take vacation days to work for her boyfriends family. This leaves her with no time off and that leads to burnout.
If she is working privately for boyfriends family they should cover her insurance if she is not covered by her employer if she is working on the “side”.
Also, working privately she may have to wait for negative COVID-19 results before she can return to work. And would have to quarantine in the interim
I think the family is trying to take advantage of her. Would they expect the same thing if she was not a CNA.
Your response really makes me see how it's "Joko98's" daughter who will get the shortest end of this stick - she has to do all that you mentioned above and she has to take the COVID tests as well as being the one who suffers from "burnout." She may want to get "out" before she gets "burned."
"Would they expect the same thing if she was not a CNA?" - excellent question!
For these two people, they are paying upwards of 165K annualized. Neither of them are CNAs or have any formal education in this. If they wanted CNAs, they'd probably be paying in the low $200,000s, per year, for this.
If we all didn't have our own homes, they would have just "offered a 'free' place to stay." That room's worth $1,500 and that is in pure street rent, meaning the person can go out when she wants and have guests and so forth.
That's $18,000 a year. Which is a far cry from $165,000.
It's always that they "won't last long." Well until the end you really don't know.
Then there's the factor of her having to have sex in the grandmas house and all this. Eww.
When you're young, esp, there's plenty of fish in the sea without these complications.
Here's the meaning your daughter should give for her CNA credential:
C - Can't
N- Negotiate
A- Arrangement
Seriously, she is definitely being used and taken advantage of for her abilities.
We see this kind of question and potential Cinderella arrangement periodically. I always wonder how someone has the gall to expect a potential mate for one of the family to sacrifice her time to care for someone, w/o pay.
No way should she allow herself to be manipulated!
If this were my daughter, I'd advise her to run for the hills as fast as her legs would carry her. But my daughter is famous for NOT listening to me, so...........LOL.
Also, what are the boyfriend's 'expectations' in regard to caring for his grandmother? Does HE agree with his family that it should be his girlfriend's 'job' to care for her, and if so, should she get paid?
This is an important question, really, b/c it determines HIS level of character and whether he will stand up for her or not. And if he can stand up to his family about what HE wants for himself and his future romantic relationships. Is he a mama's boy or a real man? Lots of questions for you to present to HER to think about.
Thanks for your response to my inquiries.
Sounds like your daughter has a kind heart and pitched in when needed. Unfortunately, some people take kindness for weakness.
I am sorry that her boyfriend’s family is trying to take advantage of her kindness. By the way, what does the boyfriend think of this? Why doesn’t he tell his family that she isn’t responsible for granny’s care?
Your daughter is learning more about her boyfriend’s family and isn’t too happy with their expectations.
Her first priority is to herself. She is smart to attend college to prepare for her future.
Many times I wondered if my kids heard what I was telling them. They were listening and heard every word.
Keep the lines of communication open for your daughter to discuss her concerns.
They are 24 and 32 and still remind me of things that I said.
We teach our kids to be polite, kind and helpful.
It’s equally as important to teach them to stand up for themselves and important principles in life.
My daughters are polite, kind and helpful and often thank me for raising them to care about humanity.
They also make me giggle when they tell me that they got their sass from me! LOL
See this as an opportunity for your daughter to learn how to stand up for herself.
I have a lot of faith in the younger generation. I am often inspired by their outlook on life.
They are super smart. They grew up in a world that was never without technology.
They are not intimidated easily and are extremely creative.
They reach out to one another. It’s quite different from past generations.
Best wishes for you and your daughter.
What would happen if she politely said she couldn’t do this anymore? It may provide an invaluable glimpse into her future with this family. If they or her new boyfriend become passive aggressive with her or downright mean, the future doesn’t sound great. There are plenty of other fish in the sea.
On a more personal note, I have three adult sons and in a million years I would not impose in that way on their partners/girlfriends, nor would any of my sons tolerate such expectations. They respect the women they are with and so do I.
You think your daughter may not be listening to you now, but she’ll become fed up at some point being an on call indentured servant. Keep telling her this arrangement is strange and outrageous until it ceases.
Good luck!
Has she already started caring for his grandmother? Or are you asking for suggestions to help prevent your daughter from helping?
By the way, I agree that it isn’t your daughter’s responsibility and that they are out of line to expect it.
How does your daughter feel about this imposition? How did she relay the information to you?
I hope your daughter doesn’t find herself being used by her new boyfriend and his family.
she’s in school and just started dating don-23 years old
Try some open ended questions. Such as "Do you enjoy Grandma, and caring for her? Do you feel secure in having someone to reach out to if there are problems? Are you doing this because you like doing this, or do you feel a little obligated?" And then just listen. Try not to give any input. She will be more open with you and more free to make her own decisions to stop doing this.
Be certain she is left with all the pertinent phone numbers for Grandma's doc, and etc.