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how is he overspending, using a credit card......simple ask to look at his card for whatever reason.......then take it (or them) and throw them away. Tell them there were some recalls on the cards due to fraud, or whatever. Also.....any junk mail that comes with an order form......tear out the order form and throw them away. wishing you luck.
kft4502: Imho, perhaps they require a good financial advisor, assuming that they still have funds. Without knowing a clearer picture, I am unable to say anything further.
A local elder law center advocates trusts to preserve wealth. Then if someone gets in over his/her head financially, the debtor can’t get what’s in the trust. It’s strange but the lawyers say the goal is to be trust wealthy and individually poor - in the case of overwhelming healthcare costs, the facility will turn to Medicaid as the easier route to collect debt because they literally can’t get trust money. In the case of hubby going into debt, they can’t take assets he or your mom don’t own (because the trust owns them). I also read that nursing homes have the legal right in some states to sue a child or children, which is another reason to have the trust (says the elder lawyers).
Just thinking what I’d do…. - Talk to mom to see if she can handle this with your help or if she’s and dad are willing to give you POA. At 85 and mentally sound, resistance may not be futile. - Ask mom if she’s tried to get hubby to stop spending, Decide who’s going to be the bad guy - both of you or you. - Mom and/or you talk to dad. Tell him changes are being made to protect his future and mom’s. - Have an income vs outgo budget so he can see what mom and he need for basics over 10-15 years. - Get mom to shred hubby’s credit cards or give them to you and cancel the card. That stops online purchase if the card’s stores online. - Return major purchases. There’s a federal Cooling Off Rule that may apply. - Find a lawyer to create a trust with all assets transferred to and owned by the trust. - Get separate checking accounts and tell the bank to set a spending limit. Hubby gets set number of dollars per month. The rest goes into mom’s account or the trust. - If this is a new behavior, get hubby a mental evaluation.
You’re right to worry. I knew a man who refused help from family members who wanted to protect his wealth when his wife died. He didn’t trust them. Then he married a gold digger, blew through $500,000 and lost his house in the divorce.
Imagine if every family member that burner through their own cash (whether it be from unfortinate bad luck or their own caused bad luck) just lobbed up to have their lifestyle now funded by you!
Come one & all.. come gamblers, come narcisstic luxury overspenders, come substance abusers..
No, I think the OP is wise to be looking out for her folks NOW. Talking to her Mother & finding the best way to help them. Find what's causing dad's behavioir is a start, then helping Mom to put safety measurments around the finances in a legal way.
First get an eldercare attorney and get a Power of attorney and whatever else you need to take over. Second advise and consult the doctors for help. Third, contact the banks, etc. and see what your options are. Get hold of all credit cards, etc. and make them dis appear. Intercept the mail before they get it. You must act at once of heaven help you - and them.
I don't know anything about the various legal aspects of such situations, but if he is deemed mentally competent, you can't stop him from blowing all his money. Is there any way to separate them either physically or financially so that your mom won't be destitute if he spends all the money? If he spends himself into poverty and it's not due to being scammed or a mental issue, then it seems he will have to live with the consequences. I hope you find a way to save your mom from this situation.
You need to monitor all accounts, incl re-creating passwords (i.e., Block him for using specific accounts.) Are you the POA? for finances? Are either of them diagnosed with dementia? If you have MD diagnosis, take to bank and put a limit on the daily amount available ($100, $20 ? none ?)
Even if you aren't the POA, you need to take some actions immediately. Be 'ready' for your father to react accordingly -- upset, mad, having a tantrum, confused. This is natural, whether he has dementia or not - independence is being taken away and this is the most difficult aspect - for the person declining - to understand and accept. I might be the same way . . . Gena / Touch Matters
Make sure that your dad hasn't been scammed. If he has a phone and a computer, then chances are that he has. Recently, there has been a major crackdown on fake call centers in India, AKA scam centers. There's not much you can do to stop your elderly parents from being scammed, but there is a lot you can do to retrieve their money and stop any more money from going out. You're going to need his bank statements to see where his money has been going. Get them asap. Make him get his statements if you don't have any control over his assets, and if you don't I recommend you get control immediately.
Good advice already given, however, are you sure that they have no other money? 401K, investments, CD's? Do dad or Mom have a pension? You really need to talk to him and find out his plan.
You don't say if your parents are mentally competent or not. It's time for a wake up call. Are all their legal papers in order - durable POA, Healthcare Proxy, Will/Trust? If not, contact a well regarded elder law attorney and do it asap. That alone will spur talks and be a lesson in what they have, and what they may need for the future. If all the legal papers are already in place, then perhaps get in an insurance person to tell them about the costs of long term care policies. That will sober them both up! Sometimes all it takes is more education about finances from a professional who can explain in layman's terms how important it is to budget for elder care.
You say you are taking care of Mom. As asked are either showing signs of Dementia. If so, do you have POA for each of them?
If Dad has no problems then you need to sit him down and explain when the money is gone, you will not be supporting them. If either needs to be placed it will be in a NH on Medicaid. Not some nice Assisted Living that they would have the money to be able to afford. Tell him you will not be physically caring for them.
If Dad is suffering from a Dementia, I hope you have POA. Dad should be declared competent by the terms of the POA. Once that is done, then you take over. You shut down his credit cards. You make it so he can't use his accts.
Mom, I would consult with a lawyer to see how you can secure her half of the assets.
kft4502, you mentioned in your profile that your Mom is 85 years old, so I assume your Dad is around that age, too. Curious, what type of overspending is your Dad doing?
Do your parents have a financial Power of Attorney? If yes, sounds like it is time for that person to step in, and slowly start taking over the finances for your parents.
Maybe I am wrong but I think you are asking for information on the aspect of strategies or where to turn when you start to see them making unsafe choices for themselves?
Have either of them shown signs of cognitive or memory changes where you are becoming concerned that maybe they will not be able to make good choices for themselves in the future?
Maybe a little more info will allow others here be able to give you ideas of where they had to start when they began seeing these type of changes. I had to help my Mom after her stroke - she was no longer independent or able to do so therefore my situation was different - The hospital wrote up a letter for me to be able to start getting moms accounts etc in order. But many here have had to speak with doctors - get guardianship etc and will be better able to guide you.
Your strategy should be reminding them that if all their money is gone, if and when the time comes that they will need outside help, or even placement, that they will be on their own, and will have to apply for Medicaid, as you will not be the one stepping up to help.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
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APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
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You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
I also read that nursing homes have the legal right in some states to sue a child or children, which is another reason to have the trust (says the elder lawyers).
Just thinking what I’d do….
- Talk to mom to see if she can handle this with your help or if she’s and dad are willing to give you POA. At 85 and mentally sound, resistance may not be futile.
- Ask mom if she’s tried to get hubby to stop spending, Decide who’s going to be the bad guy - both of you or you.
- Mom and/or you talk to dad. Tell him changes are being made to protect his future and mom’s.
- Have an income vs outgo budget so he can see what mom and he need for basics over 10-15 years.
- Get mom to shred hubby’s credit cards or give them to you and cancel the card. That stops online purchase if the card’s stores online.
- Return major purchases. There’s a federal Cooling Off Rule that may apply.
- Find a lawyer to create a trust with all assets transferred to and owned by the trust.
- Get separate checking accounts and tell the bank to set a spending limit. Hubby gets set number of dollars per month. The rest goes into mom’s account or the trust.
- If this is a new behavior, get hubby a mental evaluation.
You’re right to worry. I knew a man who refused help from family members who wanted to protect his wealth when his wife died. He didn’t trust them. Then he married a gold digger, blew through $500,000 and lost his house in the divorce.
When the time comes they will live with you or in a Care Home off their Social Security and Medicare.
Come on, you are having a laugh right? Ha ha.
Imagine if every family member that burner through their own cash (whether it be from unfortinate bad luck or their own caused bad luck) just lobbed up to have their lifestyle now funded by you!
Come one & all.. come gamblers, come narcisstic luxury overspenders, come substance abusers..
No, I think the OP is wise to be looking out for her folks NOW. Talking to her Mother & finding the best way to help them. Find what's causing dad's behavioir is a start, then helping Mom to put safety measurments around the finances in a legal way.
Are you the POA? for finances?
Are either of them diagnosed with dementia? If you have MD diagnosis, take to bank and put a limit on the daily amount available ($100, $20 ? none ?)
Even if you aren't the POA, you need to take some actions immediately.
Be 'ready' for your father to react accordingly -- upset, mad, having a tantrum, confused. This is natural, whether he has dementia or not - independence is being taken away and this is the most difficult aspect - for the person declining - to understand and accept. I might be the same way . . .
Gena / Touch Matters
Hopefully, the daughter will investigate needed changes asap.
Gena / Touch Matters
If Dad has no problems then you need to sit him down and explain when the money is gone, you will not be supporting them. If either needs to be placed it will be in a NH on Medicaid. Not some nice Assisted Living that they would have the money to be able to afford. Tell him you will not be physically caring for them.
If Dad is suffering from a Dementia, I hope you have POA. Dad should be declared competent by the terms of the POA. Once that is done, then you take over. You shut down his credit cards. You make it so he can't use his accts.
Mom, I would consult with a lawyer to see how you can secure her half of the assets.
Do your parents have a financial Power of Attorney? If yes, sounds like it is time for that person to step in, and slowly start taking over the finances for your parents.
Have either of them shown signs of cognitive or memory changes where you are becoming concerned that maybe they will not be able to make good choices for themselves in the future?
Maybe a little more info will allow others here be able to give you ideas of where they had to start when they began seeing these type of changes.
I had to help my Mom after her stroke - she was no longer independent or able to do so therefore my situation was different - The hospital wrote up a letter for me to be able to start getting moms accounts etc in order. But many here have had to speak with doctors - get guardianship etc and will be better able to guide you.
What's Dad's deck of cards like? Still playing will all his cards or no?