Are you sure you want to exit? Your progress will be lost.
Who are you caring for?
Which best describes their mobility?
How well are they maintaining their hygiene?
How are they managing their medications?
Does their living environment pose any safety concerns?
Fall risks, spoiled food, or other threats to wellbeing
Are they experiencing any memory loss?
Which best describes your loved one's social life?
Acknowledgment of Disclosures and Authorization
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington. Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services. APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid. We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour. APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment. You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints. Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights. APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.I agree that: A.I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information"). B.APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink. C.APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site. D.If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records. E.This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year. F.You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
✔
I acknowledge and authorize
✔
I consent to the collection of my consumer health data.*
✔
I consent to the sharing of my consumer health data with qualified home care agencies.*
*If I am consenting on behalf of someone else, I have the proper authorization to do so. By clicking Get My Results, you agree to our Privacy Policy. You also consent to receive calls and texts, which may be autodialed, from us and our customer communities. Your consent is not a condition to using our service. Please visit our Terms of Use. for information about our privacy practices.
Mostly Independent
Your loved one may not require home care or assisted living services at this time. However, continue to monitor their condition for changes and consider occasional in-home care services for help as needed.
Remember, this assessment is not a substitute for professional advice.
Share a few details and we will match you to trusted home care in your area:
You didn't pay the nursing home? You say the money was supposed to go to the NH, why didn't it?
Yes, they can request that you pay the bill. They could even evict your mom for non payment.
If she is getting public assistance she has to pay her share of cost, if the state she is in has this and I am presuming that it does, all of her monthly income needs to go to her care, not the upkeep of a house she doesn't live in.
I just looked, you are in MI. That means that every rule is different. I would contact a certified elder law attorney and have them advise you. www.nelf.org can help you find a certified attorney in your area.
Yes in MI. I lived out of the state at the time and continued to pay all her other bills for about 6 months. I was never notified until about 6 months in. I had to move back home to try and handle this. I was not the one who admitted her either. My sister did, no one sat me down to explain this to me. They will not send me the admission paperwork so I can look it over to review what my sister signed and if there was any explanation of the way the NH gets paid. If I knew I would not be in this situation. I wish I could afford an attorney. She still owns the house but I believe it is underwater. My sister had moved into it and would not leave in order for me to try and sell it. I will get through this somehow. Thank you :)
Even though I know it was a chaotic time for you, I'm sure you have records of how her funds were spent during that time. Find out exactly what the problem is and what documentation the nursing home needs to resolve it. If you were covering her household expenses out of your own income, you'll probably need to show that money trail as well. Maybe you did this in hopes that she would return home? If the nursing home was getting paid on time and in full during that year, then I'm not sure why they would take you to court. If she's applying for Medicaid, that could be another story if her Medicaid application hit a snag due to a lack of clarity regarding her financial status and what her income and assets are. My understanding is that nursing homes are either a private pay if the person is wealthy or some kind of public assistance (Medicaid) pays the bill for those who are not wealthy. In either case, someone pays the bill. This needs to be followed up. Please don't wait.
But Medicaid will demand a SOC (share of cost payment) if that is financially possible. It is not just Medicaid takes over and pays the full cost of the nursing home. I suspect lots of folks don't realize that. We are not in Europe.
Of course, yes. The nursing home has a resident. The resident's bill for a period of ?12 months was not paid. The nursing home is seeking to get the debt settled. Well of course they are!
Whether or not you are liable to pay this debt is a different question.
So. Your mother was admitted to a nursing home. When?
For the first year of her residence there, you paid ongoing bills related to her house, such as her mortgage. With her money, acting as her POA, or with your own money? How did you think her NH fees would be paid?
You then applied for Medicaid for her, did you? And after the first year, Medicaid took on paying the NH.
Is your mother still a resident at the same NH? How long has she been there now?
Presumably your mother's house has now been sold, or perhaps been claimed by the mortgage provider. Did your mother receive any money?
Unless you accepted personal liability for your mother's fees when she was admitted to the NH, the NH can't successfully claim their money from you. But they can demand that you as her POA (if you are) settle her debt using her money. Are you sitting on a pile of cash from the sale of her home or anything like that?
I wouldn't know how you could have done this (I thought Medicaid paid the care provider directly), but I hope you didn't use Medicaid benefits to pay your mother's mortgage :(
It's no good feeling aggrieved that the NH didn't send you a demand for the outstanding fees for several months. You must have been aware that there would be fees to be paid, and if you were responsible for managing your mother's money it was your responsibility to find out what was happening.
What discussions have you had with the NH about what to do about these unpaid bills?
I'm not at all sure, but is it possible that OP was sort of dumped into this by another family member who arranged for NH care and then left the scene? Does the OP even have POA? I worked as exec. assistant for many years and I had to untangle some real unbelievable messes and often is was a situation where the family decided the "rules" were too complicated and just "arranged" things as they could to get by day to day. Of course things finally tumble down. Hope the financial office can work with OP to get this under control and be sure Mom has got a POA/DPOA in place for the future.
Sounds like nursing home should have explained about Medicaid, Share of Cost, etc. Or maybe OP did not talk with their financial office when Mom went into NH.
You know what is hard, not knowing how your Moms stay was set up. And did you understand what u could and could not do.
#1 did Mom pay privately. If so, were you the one responsible to see that her care was paid for.
#2 Now I am assuming here. So forgive me if I am wrong.
Your Mom went on Medicaid. As a person on Medicaid her SS and any pension goes towards her care. Medicaid paying their portion of the cost. Someone has to write a check every month out of Moms acct totaling the amount of SS and/or pension. Or, the NH is given permission to be payee for Moms SS and/or pension. I have a feeling this was not done so u owe it.
When a person goes on Medicaid, they no longer have money to keep up a house. Either family pays the bills out of pocket or the home gets sold. And it has to sell at Market value. And Medicaid may not allow reimbursement for monies paid. I was told I would have to keep immaculate records. So, I stopped paying taxes. Turned off phone and cable. Kept electric but had a timer on the lights. Unplugged the stove, refrigerator, TV, small appliances. Winter I turned the heat down to 55. I left the water on but just before Moms house sold, I didn't pay the last bill. My Mom passed before the house sold so I was able to recoup my out of pocket.
You need to go to the NHs financial office and work something out with them. Yes, they should have informed you ages ago of any balance.
Thank you for reaching out. Yes I lived out of state at the time and did not receive any notification until about 6 months in. I did not know at the time how Medicaid worked. I was paying her mortgage etc. from her SS money ; My goal was for her to return back home. I guess I screwed up and did not ask the proper questions. My sister admitted her and had to of had a conversation with how this works. I was not informed but yet I am the one they are coming after because I signed her up for Medicaid a few months after she entered NH. I thought Medicaid paid the NH and was not educated with how it works. I am sure I am not alone if this is how they operate.
Well, it appears that you were notified of this 6 months into it? How did you address this at that time?
The money rec'd from SS, Pensions is to go to the NH for her care, aside from what Medicaid is paying directly, not to pay for her house payment, real estate taxes, electric for the home and so forth.
Yes, the money is owed. if she cannot afford to support 2 homes then it is time to sell the house she no longer lives in.
I started paying them. But I did it wrong and did not go to SS local office to have money directed to NH.. I will be doing this on Monday. Part of the problem is when this first happened my sister and her family moved into the house (after the 6 months of her being admitted), She would not move and now I am the one they are coming after, The one thing I did do was use some of that money I had to use to frantically move back home. A new direct express debit card was being sent to the house (in MI).. I lived in CO. and one of my sister's family members was checking the mail and the card was stolen and money was being used. I did inform SS and at that time they canceled card, put me on it and send me a new one. I did let the NH know about all of this. They really don't care. I am paying the money I borrowed to move home back. The reminder my sister owes but they only contact me and I am still waiting on the admission paperwork because someone had to of sat my sister down to explain how the pay works. I know now but the damage was already done. Thank you
You mention that although sis did the admission paperwork, you were the one to sign mom up for Medicaid. So you should have a Medicaid caseworker (not the NH) and their name should be on your paperwork. So to begin with, I would suggest reviewing the approval package Medicaid sent you as it should tell you what her share of cost would be. Did you disclose that she had a house? Who has POA?
Medicaid has sent the approval the last few years to the NH; 2019 was the first time I was sent the approval through mail. I don't know if they sent this to her home? I did disclose she had a house.. the issue their is right when this happened my sister and her family moved into it and would not move so I can sell it. No I do not have POA ; I am the payee on her SS. This outstanding bill has been out there since 2016 I have made attempts to pay a little extra a month and whatever I could afford. Monday I am going to SS local office to have them send the money straight to the NH. This has been a train wreak from the beginning.
Mary, if you have not seen the admissions paperwork and you have not requested this in writing, return receipt requested mailing, then you need to do that, Monday. You can't fight this blindly. Address the fact that you did not admit her, you didn't see any paperwork and you didn't sign anything and you are doing your best to straighten this out, but you need the paperwork. If this goes to court they will have a hard time explaining their stance on not complying with a request for the contract. This throws red flags up. Do everything in writing and keep a copy for yourself, if they want to talk, refuse and tell them to put it in writing, keep a note that they called at time, date and a brief explanation of call, be sure and get the name and position of the person calling. This will be invaluable for you if this goes to court.
Why are they threatening you if you didn't sign anything? Did your sister throw you under the bus and put you as responsible party?
In a situation like this, in a state that has rules that are beyond incomprehensible you can't afford to not at least have a consultation with an attorney that is well versed in MI Medicaid.
From the little bit I have heard, the worse thing that you did was move yourself back to MI jurisdiction. I think that I would get myself out of that crazy state.
I know that financially this is a train wreck, but you really do need guidance from a professional in your state. Unfortunately our expert on MI left the site a couple weeks ago. So I don't think you are going to find any helpful information here, because MI is SO different than other states.
What a nightmare for you. Remember, a court looks at documents the rest is just noise. Document, document, document!
Yes total nightmare.. This started in Oct. of 2015; the damage was done back then and I have requested via email for the admission VIA email through their admin. 6 times and have had no documents sent to me. My sister says no one sat her down to explain it to her and she does not remember signing anything; Which I find hard to believe. The only thing I did that was wrong is I had to use some of her money to get back home. I am paying that back as we speak. My mother told me to do that when she first got in NH. I at the time did not think I did anything wrong. On Monday I am heading to my local SS office to setup a direct pay from her SS to the NH. but no I was never sat down with anyone to explain how this works. Yes I am the one that signed her up for Medicaid. But I need the admission paperwork. If this explanation is written out in that then they need to harass my sister and not me. The NH communication has been a horrible experience. I did go to court last week and filed an objection and they had to postpone the court date for March 2nd.. I wont be able to hire a lawyer at that time because of my finances . At court they had a Guardian company that is trying to take her away from me. So horrific and I went into this blind . Thank you for reaching out .
Her Share of Cost which comes from her Social Security check needs to be paid. Here in California my sister is on Medi-cal (like medicaid), and all of her Social Security amount goes to the Nursing home less $35.00 which goes towards buying toiletries etc. Wondering if you are your mothers Social Security Payee? Do you have Durable Financial POA, as well as Medical POA for your mother?
Thank you for your response. No I never filed a POA. Yes I am her SS Payee. I signed up as her medical person but just through the nursing home. I send the checks to the nursing home but they have been behind and it all started from the beginning when I lived out of state and the money was being used to pay her other bills. I had no idea.. I know now but thee damage has already been done. I will update this site as things move along.
Sounds like there are two issues: guardianship and financial debt owed to the nursing home from 2015 for six months of your mother's social security.
If court papers are filed for the debt, you might want to check on the statute of limitations for collecting debt first. Is the debt related to room/board and medical services?
The nursing home should have a social worker that worked with the family or whoever they recognized as "responsible party" upon admission. I had something similar to this with my aunt. A relative who I assumed had poa said she didn't sign anything. Maybe the nursing home had your mother sign. Was she even competent at the time?
If you came in to set up Medicaid, sounds like you became your mother's personal representative but not necessarily responsible party. You had to have access to her financial assets like banking so not sure how you accessed this info. Whatever money you personally used would be seen as a gift in the overall medicaid lookback period and counted towards any penalty period. Did your mother have savings that needed to be spent down. Was there a penalty period for Medicaid? Medicaid should have covered services retroactive to three months and to the beginning of her admission.
The debt is defaulting to you because you are her ss representative payee, so basically your mother owes debt not you personally. If your sister moved in and you paid house bills, sounds like your sister owes rent for that time period and should pay you as you are handing mom's nursing home and ss issues.
If debt was for a period of six months, was your mother in rehab? Those services should be covered by Medicare. I believe you can get access to claims on the Medicare website. As your mother's "ss representative payee" I believe you have authorization to get medicare online access. Otherwise, your mother has to give the ok over the phone.
So you can file for guardianship healthcare and financial decisions for your mother, and request the court order the admission papers and health records from the nursing home. See if the court in your county offers a conservatorship workshop to help with paperwork. I found an organization in our state that has an app which helps filling out the paperwork.
You do not sign up to be POA, mom assigns it, you then accept or deny.
You NEED an elder law attorney, now, today. Get back to Colorado. Leave sis and mom to this mess. Let nursing home know this is not your problem mom created it somehow, nursing home and sis created it somehow. That is for them to figure out.
Mary, I understand that you have emailed the request, but there is something about a registered return receipt letter delivered by a federal employee that gets people's attention. They can deny ever receiving an email, but they can not deny that a federal employee delivered and someone acting as an authorized representative for the NH signed for the document.
You can represent yourself in the action, but not without the contract. Don't become apathetic and let them win by default.
You have until March 2nd to put a case together. You can work hard and research how to do this or you can let them assign your mom a paid guardian and hope that they don't block access to her. These are your choices and no one will judge you for whatever choice you make.
No doubt there is loads more to the story. Do what is best for your mom and yourself.
I would never admit that I spent on myself the money deposited by SS for my loved one. That can get you in a lot of hot water if you spend that money on things not for her. If it was for reimbursing you for a coat you bought for her that's one thing, but for moving expenses that's another.
It might be best for the guardianship company to take control. They would be able to kick the sister out of the house and have mom's finances straightened out.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
Good luck in getting this situation resolved.
Yes, they can request that you pay the bill. They could even evict your mom for non payment.
If she is getting public assistance she has to pay her share of cost, if the state she is in has this and I am presuming that it does, all of her monthly income needs to go to her care, not the upkeep of a house she doesn't live in.
I just looked, you are in MI. That means that every rule is different. I would contact a certified elder law attorney and have them advise you. www.nelf.org can help you find a certified attorney in your area.
Whether or not you are liable to pay this debt is a different question.
So. Your mother was admitted to a nursing home. When?
For the first year of her residence there, you paid ongoing bills related to her house, such as her mortgage. With her money, acting as her POA, or with your own money? How did you think her NH fees would be paid?
You then applied for Medicaid for her, did you? And after the first year, Medicaid took on paying the NH.
Is your mother still a resident at the same NH? How long has she been there now?
Presumably your mother's house has now been sold, or perhaps been claimed by the mortgage provider. Did your mother receive any money?
Unless you accepted personal liability for your mother's fees when she was admitted to the NH, the NH can't successfully claim their money from you. But they can demand that you as her POA (if you are) settle her debt using her money. Are you sitting on a pile of cash from the sale of her home or anything like that?
I wouldn't know how you could have done this (I thought Medicaid paid the care provider directly), but I hope you didn't use Medicaid benefits to pay your mother's mortgage :(
It's no good feeling aggrieved that the NH didn't send you a demand for the outstanding fees for several months. You must have been aware that there would be fees to be paid, and if you were responsible for managing your mother's money it was your responsibility to find out what was happening.
What discussions have you had with the NH about what to do about these unpaid bills?
it?
#1 did Mom pay privately. If so, were you the one responsible to see that her care was paid for.
#2 Now I am assuming here. So forgive me if I am wrong.
Your Mom went on Medicaid. As a person on Medicaid her SS and any pension goes towards her care. Medicaid paying their portion of the cost. Someone has to write a check every month out of Moms acct totaling the amount of SS and/or pension. Or, the NH is given permission to be payee for Moms SS and/or pension. I have a feeling this was not done so u owe it.
When a person goes on Medicaid, they no longer have money to keep up a house. Either family pays the bills out of pocket or the home gets sold. And it has to sell at Market value. And Medicaid may not allow reimbursement for monies paid. I was told I would have to keep immaculate records. So, I stopped paying taxes. Turned off phone and cable. Kept electric but had a timer on the lights. Unplugged the stove, refrigerator, TV, small appliances. Winter I turned the heat down to 55. I left the water on but just before Moms house sold, I didn't pay the last bill. My Mom passed before the house sold so I was able to recoup my out of pocket.
You need to go to the NHs financial office and work something out with them. Yes, they should have informed you ages ago of any balance.
Come back and tell us how things work out.
The money rec'd from SS, Pensions is to go to the NH for her care, aside from what Medicaid is paying directly, not to pay for her house payment, real estate taxes, electric for the home and so forth.
Yes, the money is owed. if she cannot afford to support 2 homes then it is time to sell the house she no longer lives in.
Why are they threatening you if you didn't sign anything? Did your sister throw you under the bus and put you as responsible party?
In a situation like this, in a state that has rules that are beyond incomprehensible you can't afford to not at least have a consultation with an attorney that is well versed in MI Medicaid.
From the little bit I have heard, the worse thing that you did was move yourself back to MI jurisdiction. I think that I would get myself out of that crazy state.
I know that financially this is a train wreck, but you really do need guidance from a professional in your state. Unfortunately our expert on MI left the site a couple weeks ago. So I don't think you are going to find any helpful information here, because MI is SO different than other states.
What a nightmare for you. Remember, a court looks at documents the rest is just noise. Document, document, document!
Wondering if you are your mothers Social Security Payee? Do you have Durable Financial POA, as well as Medical POA for your mother?
If court papers are filed for the debt, you might want to check on the statute of limitations for collecting debt first. Is the debt related to room/board and medical services?
The nursing home should have a social worker that worked with the family or whoever they recognized as "responsible party" upon admission. I had something similar to this with my aunt. A relative who I assumed had poa said she didn't sign anything. Maybe the nursing home had your mother sign. Was she even competent at the time?
If you came in to set up Medicaid, sounds like you became your mother's personal representative but not necessarily responsible party. You had to have access to her financial assets like banking so not sure how you accessed this info. Whatever money you personally used would be seen as a gift in the overall medicaid lookback period and counted towards any penalty period. Did your mother have savings that needed to be spent down. Was there a penalty period for Medicaid? Medicaid should have covered services retroactive to three months and to the beginning of her admission.
The debt is defaulting to you because you are her ss representative payee, so basically your mother owes debt not you personally. If your sister moved in and you paid house bills, sounds like your sister owes rent for that time period and should pay you as you are handing mom's nursing home and ss issues.
If debt was for a period of six months, was your mother in rehab? Those services should be covered by Medicare. I believe you can get access to claims on the Medicare website. As your mother's "ss representative payee" I believe you have authorization to get medicare online access. Otherwise, your mother has to give the ok over the phone.
So you can file for guardianship healthcare and financial decisions for your mother, and request the court order the admission papers and health records from the nursing home. See if the court in your county offers a conservatorship workshop to help with paperwork. I found an organization in our state that has an app which helps filling out the paperwork.
You NEED an elder law attorney, now, today. Get back to Colorado. Leave sis and mom to this mess. Let nursing home know this is not your problem mom created it somehow, nursing home and sis created it somehow. That is for them to figure out.
Now, find that attorney.
You can represent yourself in the action, but not without the contract. Don't become apathetic and let them win by default.
You have until March 2nd to put a case together. You can work hard and research how to do this or you can let them assign your mom a paid guardian and hope that they don't block access to her. These are your choices and no one will judge you for whatever choice you make.
No doubt there is loads more to the story. Do what is best for your mom and yourself.
Best of luck!
It might be best for the guardianship company to take control. They would be able to kick the sister out of the house and have mom's finances straightened out.