Narcissistic Mother has started to irritate the administration of her ALF. Thoughts?

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Narcissistic Mother has started to irritate the administration of her ALF. Thoughts?

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Before my Mother moved closer to me, we had a come to Jesus meeting. I told her that she needed to find a way to be happy in her new place! She hasn't been happy anywhere for as long as I can remember.
She is still in her right mind, but has major mobility issues.
3 weeks after she moved in the Corona virus quarantine took effect.
I completely understand how hard the isolation has been, but even when they started letting residents go out to socialize she refused to leave her room.
She raises Hell about everything!
It's to the point that the Director has suggested to her that maybe she should come live with me!
This is not an option!!!
Have any of you dealt with a facility trying to get rid of your LO?
I am mad as Hell that the Director would even suggest such a thing, but honestly I don't want to piss her off any more than my Mother already has. If they give her the boot, she'll have nowhere else to go!!
Any thoughts???

Assisted Living Loneliness Narcissism

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If your mother is given the boot, she will have to find another facility, won't she?

Why would you even think of her living with you?

Have you spoken to the director about this yourself, i.e., do you know for a fact that she suggested your mother living with you?

Or is this one of your mom's manipulations?

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Could be manipulation Barb.
As far as other places, most of the AFLs have long waiting lists.
I haven't had a chance to speak to the Director yet. She's not there over the weekend. Believe me. I plan on getting to the bottom of it tomorrow.
I offered to help Mom move back to my brother's house in Colorado.
You would have thought I slapped her in the face!! Lol

(6)

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Disappear . For a little while anyways. Really. Just . .do a vanishing act.

Others will explain better.

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Just say no loud and clear. Tell the director no she is not living with you.

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Jodi, I agree with Elaine, but if you haven't spoken directly to the director and heard this information from her mouth, you have ZERO reason to believe that it's true.

I'm so curious why you think that if your mother gets kicked out of an AL that she would HAVE to come live with you. There are other AL's in your state, yes?

Make it clear, in the nicest possible way, both to mom and the director, that you will in no way being assisting your mom in making a move.

Not looking at other places, not driving her around to them to look, not ordering the movers. Mom will have to manage this all herself, or with the kind Director's help.

Why? Because clearly you picked the wrong place and Mom and the Director will have a MUCH better idea of what mom needs.

Oh, and since the new place will be a longer drive for you, you won't be doing any errands.

And only visiting once a month.

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BarbBrooklyn has dealt with that personality type, and has the best perspective about navigating and coping with manipulations, etc.

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Mother's happiness is own her responsibility: past, present, future.

Who suggested moving in with you? The Director or Mother? Either way, a big jolly laugh is the answer "Gosh that's funny! That's NEVER going to happen".

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These Directors have no clue. They need to go work somewhere else because they seem to have a problem with these elders.

The Director of a Memory Care facility my husband's brother was in at one time, sent my husband a 30 day notice stating she was sending his brother home to him. She was aware my husband had just had a triple heart bypass and didn't care.

Thankfully, I responded quickly and it got resolved and she was not allowed to do that.

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The DIRECTOR has suggested........??? The director, at least in theory a professional trained in geriatric management, is unable to manipulate your mother’s behavior, and she’s telling you that YOU have to take that responsibility on?

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I don't think Directors are trained in dealing with the elderly. They are usually business administration with maybe some accounting thrown in. They aim for the bottom line. Getting residents into the facility. Its a special person who knows how to deal with the elderly and those suffering from Dementia.

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First, the Director should not have said "maybe she should come live with me". Mom is where she is either because she chose to be or because she can't live with you.

You set boundries before this move. Stick by them. Have a Jesus moment with Mom again. Tell her in no way will she ever live with you. And if she hinders in any way the ability to stay where she is, she is on her own. Also, make her aware that in some instances the State can take over and her life will not be hers. (In some instances this is true but a little white lie won't hurt) I would find out if in ur State an AL can "kick" a resident out if they do not have a safe place to go. They do sign a lease so not sure if they can evict. But, they may not allow Mom to sign a new one.

You then sit down with the Director and tell him/her what Mom said. This way you will find out if Mom was lying. You then tell him/her that Mom coming to live with you is not an option. It will not happen. That from the beginning you told her it was up to her to make her living there a happy one. That you nor anyone else can/could do that for her. That the best thing he/she and staff could do is set boundries. And this can be done in nice ways. They must have had nasty residents before.

Think of Mom as a child. By sabotaging something they thing they will get their own way. By setting boundries and walking away from their tantrums, they realize that the sabotaging is getting them nowhere.

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My first thought is who told you that the director said this? I am hoping you won't tell me that your MOTHER told you.
Secondly, time to speak with the director. When my brother was in Assisted Living most of the people there were much farther along the dementia spectrum than he. The director was well known to me. I know what she went through and I know how good she was at it, and I will tell you now that complaint is the thing all those elders did BEST. And those caring for them, so kind, so compassionate, knew and understood that.
So your Mom may be in the wrong facility, if choice there is.
The staff at Assisted Living may WELL, when the poop hits the fan, say something such as "You may be unhappy enough here that you would like to explore other places that better suit you". It is the ultimate last resort of honestly saying to the elder, who may NEED to be leveled with "If you think there is someplace that will accept your abuse more gladly, then do go out and find that place".
Even when dementia is a factor our elders occ. need to be told the truth. It is not as though they are shopping at Macy's and if they don't like the service they can go across the street and give Nordstrom's twice as much money to put up with them. When I was an RN I occ. had to level with people. I first of all LOVED my feisty patients, loved almost all of my patients, but abuse is another thing, and I occ. had to sit down and tell someone gently that I cared about them, that I would do my level BEST for them, that I was a good nurse, and I would care for them to the very best of my ability, BUT that I was not there to take abuse, and I would NOT take abuse. That is being a nurse in San Francisco where the Union job didn't allow people to abuse us, neither bosses, Doc, nor patients. I never worked with a finer bunch, and I was privleged to care for people, but there are times when there is no other answer but the gentle truth.
Tell them honestly that you have this version from (whomever it comes from) and that you cannot know what to believe, but that you are both afraid for your Mom's dignity, while knowing how difficult she can be, and afraid for her position within their facility. This may come to a "come- to -Jesus" honest meeting, Mom, you and the director. I have seen that work.
I sure do hope you will update us. Don't let it go unaddressed would be my advice. But address it honestly and gently.

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Wish they had Unions for Nurses in my State. My daughter can stand up for herself, but there have been times she has abused and overworked.

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"It's to the point that the Director has suggested to her that maybe she should come live with me!" Doubtful, but your mom gets extra points for attempting to manipulate you.

"If they give her the boot, she'll have nowhere else to go!!" Your mom can either modify her behavior or she can find another place, just like she found the one where she's currently living. Either way, it's not your problem to solve for her.

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Good luck. I'm so sorry to say the ALF that my mother was in got rid of her too. My mother was a sweetheart, the staff loved her and the administration still got rid of her. Why? Because a new resident would bring in more money. So my mother who was no trouble, spent her life as a nurse taking care of others, spent her last weeks giving up in a COVID ridden dump. We fought and fought hard. We even had a recording of them stating, "as long as there is a payer source (ie., Medicaid), we would never transfer a resident." Facilities do this kind of thing all the time and are too good at it. If you've got money, they'll put up with her.

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OMG - that is terrible! I'm so sorry for your loss and in that way. We too are dealing with this COVID mess - trying to move my 93 year old mother who had a stroke but can still walk, talk for which we are grateful to a nice AL. We had her all ready to go then COVID struck at the place we were placing her. So frustrating! To top it all off - we were waiting to hear about the testing and whether or not we could move forward - NEVER HEARD BACK!!! We already signed and filled out all the paperwork - and mom was looking forward to having her own room. My brother was livid and said we are not moving here there - so now back to square one. Such a horrible situation for everyone. Prayers

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Is it possible to rent or buy a small home and have home health care or PASE help, also it seems like almost everything can be delivered with a little researc or ratings check on services.

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My mother is in an ALF also and I am about 10 minutes away. She will complain to me about lunch being 15 minutes late. The girl forgot to put her juice in the fridge and so on. Once in awhile I have to stop and remind her of the "real" world. I am not religious but my mom is so I'll say "God in his infinite wisdom gave you this nice place to stay, makes sure you have food and someone comes to clean your apartment every week." I then go on to remind her of all the people who are homeless, hungry or diseased and dying. That usually calms her down for awhile.

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It's so hard to deal with people whose top priority is always themselves. Everything comes back to them. Also, it's really hard to understand, when you have a busy life, how someone's life becomes so small when they are in a facility. The lunch being 15 minutes late is a big deal, and what else do they have to talk about? Complaining becomes a lifestyle, a way of life.
If she's still in her right mind, I would try to steer the conversation to anything else-- politics, the news, celebrities. Get her a subscription to People and you two can gossip about Hollywood. It's more fun than hearing about her juice. Okay, if she's religious, then maybe not People, but you get my drift.
It's so hard. My older sister is in a facility and she is completely absorbed by herself. I can commiserate!

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My mother was asked to leave a facility so I found another one.
At her new place they're not thrilled by her behavior but they understand
that they serve all different types of personalities and aging has its toll on people in different ways.

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Facilities can kick patients out. I know. My FIL was...every facility. Ended up renting an apt near us and had health care come to him. Worked great!

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He must not have been a fall risk...

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We are dealing with that right now. My sister in law works at the facility and had told a few family members that everyone there from the administrator on down just wants mom gone. She is not able to move without assistance. She had been living with us but had surgery and went to the facility for physical therapy. We can't take care of her if she can't get up and move on her own due to our own health issues.

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So has the facility your mom lives in never heard of a hoyer lift. They are easy to use and work wonders

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I would think the ALF would try a little harder during Covid. ALF is still on lockdown, and many of them will go broke after this. I don't know if there are that many people on waiting list to be in lockdown. My mom is in ALF and the director recently quit. She couldn't take it, seeing the despair on the faces of the residents. The new one is a fill-in LPN who knows little about dementia or running a facility with elderly.

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If she is still in her right mind then she can understand her options. Make it clear that she cannot move in with you. And don’t try to give her an explanation. Just, “it’s not an option - the plan is you need and get along here.” And walk away. Limit your involvement. Then your mother won’t have you as an audience. My mother has dementia and is receiving hospice services and she still continues to complain - and lie!!! I have sent notes and spoken with medical staff about her anxiety and depression issues as well. The staff should be trained in dealing with these types of personalities. You also need to stand up for yourself with the staff, if indeed they are the ones telling her that she needs to move. My mother told me that someone from the office came to tell her she had to move in 30 days. That wasn’t true. Moving her home with you would be your suicide. Don’t do it!

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Im finding it interesting that the AL's and NH's freak out when elderly are in their care because of their "personality' clashes. Thought they were 'trained' to deal with difficult behaviors. Hence, the reason they get so much money ~ whether it be private or government funding. Not sure they can 'pick the best of the best" to reside there. But watch out. She'll be in a wheelchair and medicated b4 you know it. Think about that.

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It isn't a 'freak out.' ALs and SNFs have to consider the safety of their staff and other residents.

"So much money" is a phrase spoken by someone who's never seen the spread sheets.

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My advice is speak to the director right away. Get very clear expectations from her and give her yours too. You do have rights but all the facilities I've been acquaninted with act like we don't. Be pleasant but firm and keep it on a "business" level as much as possible. My mother was in a local AL and with her dementia was a real handful. First they moved her into the memory care unit promising me she'd get more attention there....a joke. Then when she became much more difficult to handle they got me to agree to send her to behavorial health, her second trip. She was refusing meds and no one could manage her so I was getting lots of complaints from the staff. Almost everyone lacks training for mental illness in these facilities, even in the dementia/Alzheimer's units. It's shocking at what flusters them and what they can't handle! The head nurse told me she'd never sent anyone out to BH that didn't come back a changed person and she and the director did say we'd give it about 3 weeks when she returned to AL, indicating they wouldn't boot just kick her out. Well, when it came time for her to return to AL the nurse and director went to the BH facility to evaluate her then they wouldn't even call ME! I finally had to call the AL to find out what was going on. The director (my "friend" remember) said, "Let me tell you why we can't take her back". I was devastated. She led me down the wrong path, lied to me, then lacked the backbone to face me. (The staff at BH told me, "They...the director and nurse.... already had their minds made up when they walked in the door.") My family and I already had a scheduled vacation and we were leaving town in 2 days. We had to scramble to find a place for my mother with a dementia unit and 24/7 skilled nursing as stated in the discharge papers from BH. That of course meant a NH which thankfully took her at the least minute and thankfully is 5 minutes from me. It was the last place I wanted to put my mother but it was the also my last resort. I couldn't take her in my home because she had become emotionally abusive to me also and was in a wheelchair. And guess what?! The NH staff didn't know how to deal with mental illness either! We desperately need a push in this country to help promote specialized training.

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First, when did you have her health (physical and mental) evaluated by her doctors? From what you describe, she is not really "in her right mind". She may need something to help her calm down or just relax. She is angry (you can bet on that).

Just what is the behavior that is causing trouble. If she refuses to leave her room for anything at all, then there is most likely something going on that she cannot put into words. If that is just her personality, I am surprised the ALF personnel cannot get through to her.

From your opening statement -- called into meeting -- then I am assuming you have POA and Medical POA. Use them to help find out what is going on getting a doctor involved. If you do not have these then they do need to be put in place.

Good luck, it is not easy being the one that must ask the truly hard questions.

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Angelheart,
I am her POA, however she truly has her faculties. She's just mean!!
She has mobility issues and that's why she there.
She honestly hasn't been happy anywhere as long as I can remember.
I think she just sits there and thinks of things to complain about.
I have suggested counseling and her Doctor recommended antidepressants, but she flat out refused.

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Jodi, were you able to speak to the director?

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Barb,
I tried calling yesterday, but ED is out of the office till next week. Ugh!!

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Believe me, the AL doesn't want to lose a customer, especially now. So, if they're talking about your mom moving out, she is being much more than a simple irritation.

What does the Director say when asked for details. Is she being abusive to staff? Other residents? Or, are her mobility issues more than they can handle in assisted living. Does your mom require a two-person lift? Is she overweight? These are important factors in whether the AL can care for her with their staffing.

Don't worry if they do insist that your mom move out. You'll have time to find another AL and, unless you're in a rural area with very few options, you will find an AL that will take her.

Has she had a Geri Psych evaluation?

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This happened on the Sopranos when Tony Sopranos put his narcissistic mother in a home. I could relate as I battle these issues with my own mother. It was hard to watch the show as it was so triggering

its was the first season and the actress passed in real life, she was too good an actress. It’s worth watching bc her kids discuss what to do about mom and what it was like having her as a mom in their life, waking up to that fact. Great therapy lol

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Im sorry you are going thru this. Staff does not want anyone who is combative or troubling to them. The director is not your friend. They only care about the bottom line and running of the facility. They are not your friend, and don't have your back. They want to rid themselves of the problem. They will get rid of them bc the resident is hard to deal with. They also have to keep staff safe, or the staff will quit.
Imagine your job is to get them up and dressed and they refuse day in and out, cursing you, throwing things, or slapping you, nasty remarks etc. Then the family says why is the resident in the same clothes, not showered, not fed etc? They don't have to deal with that tough resident. Very hard on the staff. Most people dont want to be injured or cursed/screamed at.
Makes it easier to move them out.
If she is raising hell about everything she could have depression/great extreme anxiety. It comes out that way. Not alwaysaas a sobbing, depressed person. She may also feel overwhelmed, anxious, be in pain from mobility issues. Maybe everything hurts. She might think she has been shoved into a room/place that is not her home. Not wanted. No say in anything. Told when to get up, wash, dress, eat, go to bed. What room, and roommate she has to share the room with. Not her house and her items there. That can be very depressing. The only way she can cope is to vent. Also some elderly gripe about everything bc they feel helpless. Helpless they are trapped in a body that defies them. It no longer works. Helpless they got old and are in care, and no longer productive. Hate they didnt get to do the things they always said they would do. Hate their life now. Again probably depression.

I would think an evaluation would be in order. They might be able to put meds in food. I'm not sure if there is some rule somewhere that says the resident must know they are taking meds and has a right to refuse. You can talk to the doctor about that. There have been residents who got their mrds adjusted to keep them calm. It is doing her no good to be miserable day in/out. Maybe a psych evaluation/doctor can help. Good luck.

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Calm Dowm Pills ... Anti Anxiety Meds

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Mommynightmare,
Right???
Unfortunately she refuses to take antidepressants or antianxiety meds!

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If she isn't listening to you, do you think it would help to have a professional therapist talk to her (maybe several sessions)? During coronavirus, it may have to be by video. Or if she is religious, it could be someone from her house of worship. She's acting like a diva and may be throwing tantrums as a way of expressing her unhappiness, and trying to get attention. Life is not great right now for any of us. Does she understand that in this time of sickness it's difficult for everyone? She's got to grow up.

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No of course she doesn’t these things. Do you understand the questions.

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There are so many possible explanations for what is happening here. My own mama was a very beautiful , highly intelligent, charming sweet person. Even in her nineties with dementia, she was very sweet and somewhat rational. In a very expensive fancy facility, she was not treated well. She could have no privacy whatsoever. Strange demented peoplecould wander in and out of her room and browse through her things. If she protested, she was "in trouble".My brother was in charge of her money and her care. it was all very tragic. In your case, your own mother may be very selfish, self centered, or difficult.I feel so sorry for both of you.

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BobbieSena,
I envy you!
I wish that my Mom was happy,sweet and loving.
I pray every day that God will grant my Mother happiness and contentment.
I took my Mom two times to visit her current home.
She had every opportunity to see for herself and look at reviews.
She still has her faculties!
Sadly, I almost wish that she didn't.
I know that sounds harsh, but my Aunt who I am also responsible for has Alzheimer's, but is always so pleasant to talk to.
Perhaps much like your mother?

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Yes, private facilities can do that. My SIL’s 84 yr old mother was made to leave her facility. Because of her severe short term memory loss, she kept wandering all over the facility during the virus lock down phase. She’d wander here and there, instead of staying in her room. She of course couldn’t remember the rules.
My SIL got the call in May. She had to fly from CA to OH to get her mother and pack up. Her mother was on a 1st floor, so family members went in and out the window to gather her things. (??) SIL flew her back to CA and she’s living with her now.

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How do you know the director suggested that to her? Did mom tell you she said it? Might be nothing but mom's manipulation at work just to see what you'd say. Or to piss you off at the facility, too, and get her out of there. Of course, it could be true. She may have compared something they did to how you do it and the reply was, if you don't like it here go live with your daughter.

If your mom is sitting in her room, moping and creating the next argument in her head, she is probably going after each employee that enters her room with some sort of complaint. She IS their squeaky wheel and facilities do NOT like her demands or complaints - even if they are legitimate complaints. She creates work for them. Crotchety old people with a good mind are not what they really want. Preference is the quiet, lay in the bed and poop in their pants type.

It would be very unlikely the director just dropped in to see how your mom was doing. So how the conversation even came about might be interesting. Maybe mom gets out of her room more than you know??? Maybe she's just telling you she sits there all day, alone, to make you feel guilty.

Did your mom ever have any kind of hobby that she enjoyed? Was she ever social on her own. If so, what activities did she do with others. Go from that angle to see if you can figure out something to give her to do.

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Narcissistic Mother has started to irritate the administration of her ALF. Thoughts?

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