Neighbor needs senior care. Any advice?

I’m well aware. There was an elderly woman who lived a few doors down. She has now passed. But, she and her 3 children about my age, wanted me to “spend time with her”. They did not care that, at the time, I was working for 2 major corporations, working over 100 hours/week and commuting 4+ hours/day. I didn’t realize what was going on, until she started showing me around her apartment, including her bedroom. Then, I was gone.

Yes, they were looking for free eldercare. They didn’t come out and ask. They just wanted me to assume duties.

LOL, Lea, win the lottery AND I feel I should be 50 pounds lighter and 20 years younger!

You are so right, this is the kind of person who will take that mile!

A number of years ago, my SIL's "rescued" someone once - a woman with an "abusive" husband (not sure what the actual abuse was, other than he insisted she work to contribute to the household bills). Turned out she was a big-time leach, really took advantage of their good natures. It was the classic case of "if you save a life, you become responsible for it." My one SIL actually bought a second home to rent to this person! Leach-woman moved her elderly mother in with her, elderly mother paid the rent. When elderly mother had to be placed in a facility, leach-woman moved away as fast as she could, without any regard for my SIL and whether or not she could carry the note on the house without rental income. I tried to tell them both at the beginning, but they both *insisted* I was wrong about their dear "friend", and that I was "heartless" about the situation. It took every ounce of self-control to not say "I told you so." once leach-woman beat feet because she didn't feel it was "fair" that she should have to pay rent - her words exactly to my SIL.

She may feel since the OP lives upstairs, the time the OP comes downstairs the OP can stop by and see if she needs help with anything.

I don’t believe in turning my back on people either — until I learned about narcissism and what I’m seeing in this neighbor is someone who seems inclined to do more than ask. That her ask was a minor hurdle of what she’d decided I would be doing for her. When I gave her a flat no 2 years ago, I could see she was shocked by my answer. It was unexpected for her.

Other than adopting a puppy she shortly returned last year, it’s mostly been quiet. But, I can see that, now that she’s adopted a new dog, she wants to reinitiate conversation again, despite knowing I’m disinterested. This is not an assumption on my part. When I came home yesterday, she was out with her dog, said hi, I said hi and I went in. When I came out this morning, as I walk one of my cats, she said I seemed tired and like I didn’t want to talk yesterday. She doesn’t catch my vibe — because she doesn’t want to. In all likelihood, she wants to reinitiate conversation, to see if I’ve “changed my mind yet”. No, I haven’t. She’d likely become a full time PITA, banging on her ceiling (my floor) and running me out of my own life. I’ve lived here for over 30 years. No one is more incensed than I am that, out of all the neighbors I’ve had, comes one who thinks I work for her, for free, while she sits on her a$$, eating and watching TV all day.

Geaton, NO. Doing all these things is actually part of caregiving. If you help set them up, you also sort them out when they go wrong. And then more.

This neighbor has a husband in jail, who probably has access to professionals who know the system and can help with 'his' responsibilities.

You don't need ideas because you are not helping her. The only word you need to know and repeat is no. No excuses. No reasons. Just no.

Thank you so much. I actually posed the question because I wanted to know what alternatives she has, because I’m curious how much she’s not considered, since her concentration seems to be on me, despite other neighbors being right there. Not that I think it’s their job either. For her though, it’s possible that it’s because I live right above her and I’m unsure if race is a factor, as well.

Understand also, that I have solid boundaries, because I’m well-versed in the topic of narcissism, courtesy of my now-deceased mother. I, quite easily, pick up on red flags and patterns and, although not qualified to diagnose, I know it’s likely that she would be classified as a vulnerable narcissist, according to the DSM5. When I told her no 2 years ago, it was dead back then. But, I’m also well aware than boundaries are for me and not for her, because it wouldn’t be at all in her interest, that I have any. Sometimes, when someone invites you into their life, they’re inviting themselves into yours actually. I also understand “no JADE” with narcissists, which means, do not justify, apologize, defend, explain”. A flat no was what she received.

Ultimately, I feel I’m just looking at someone who is still young enough and quite cognizant enough to know exactly what she is doing and feels that, through some form of attrition, either I’m going to be her dedicated caregiver OR as someone who is home 24/7, while I’m at work most days, will try to cause some nightmare scenario. People have told me to move and that is my intention. However, I’m just at the start of a probate war with my sister, over 2 mortgage-free properties. So, although that sounds clear cut, it’s a mess of it’s own. Otherwise, I’d be in the midst of packing right now.

It is nice to be a good neighbor, unless you recognize narcissistic red flags and patterns, to protect yourself, from someone overcoming your life, with their own.

As another commenter properly picked up on, baking cookies and carrying groceries, is just an opening for her to request more, then become angered, because she won’t be getting anymore. Not a good move.

She was provided a flat no. While I realize that there “may” be both need and desperation (if there’s an actual need), if she’s narcissistic, narcissistic people don’t like and aren’t interested in “no”. They don’t like and are not interested in your boundaries. To them, you are an appliance, sometimes, to take care of their poor decisions and other problems.

This is why, in response to another commenter, who said that I could bake cookies and carry her groceries, the reality is that this neighbor is looking for ANY in, to cause what is called enmeshment. For her, it is likely “by any means necessary”, you are GOING TO BE MY CAREGIVER. This shows that, through objectification, her “ask” does not mean she feels I have the right, even as a separate tenant, to not care for her.

This is also why you see some needy or elderly people getting no help. Because some of them, no matter how vulnerable their appearance is, will calculate to strong arm someone into doing for them, even if that utterly destroys the other person’s life. They attempt to exert control and while their target thinks it’s nice to just be helpful, this type of personality is looking how to make it so you do not breathe. Slavery in plain sight.

Agreed.

I’m even under the impression that, where dog ownership is concerned, as she is complaining that her new dog doesn’t just take care of business, whenever she runs her out, and may just want to be outside, that it’s a problem. It’s a dog. Not an object. Not a stuffed animal, which is probably what she really needs. In addition, I’ve suspected that the dog is not for companionship, as I cut convo with her, when she first told me that she’d cared for her mother and I could care for her, 2 years ago. That the purpose of the dog might be to “recreate” companionship with me, when I walk my cat. It seems paranoid of me, but I’ve been made aware, by her, that there’s an agenda, which she may still be waiting for me to change my mind on.

I only hope that I can get out of here, sometime soon. Because I suspect that this is a person who will become angrier over time with me (and with no other neighbors) because, like myself, she will age. But, she is still older than I and doesn’t seem at all inclined to do for herself, including care for herself. I do take things like hopelessness and depression into account. But, I am not and cannot be her answer. I have my own family battle to fight and that is outside of increasingly taking better care of myself and pursuing my own goals. As my mother told me she’d always used me, it feels more urgent than ever. So, I will not be allowing some lazy, entitled neighbor, to step in and finish me off.

Thank you for your advice!

Thank you so much. Obviously, you understand enough to be a fly on the wall.

Regarding her dog, while I don’t typically eavesdrop, I heard her in conversation through my video doorbell, when I was at work today. She’s not normally on the phone outside and I was just checking on the constant notifications I was getting as, there is a lot of construction work going on here, before the weather turns cold. Whomever she spoke to, she was complaining that that dog seems to want to go out unnecessarily, meaning other than to eliminate, right out front. There’s a park across the street. But, I’m certain that, even if she were in perfect health, she has had no inclination to take herself, the puppy she had last year, nor the dog she recently adopted, to that park ever, even though she’s home 24/7. I understand that support dogs probably have a limited life. But, this is absurd. As per the puppy she had, she probably wants me to care for this dog, too, because I walk one of my cats. I don’t know that I need to contact anyone in regards to the dog, however. I think that the reality of having to care for it and that I won’t, will settle in, and she’ll return this dog, the same as she did the puppy. I love both dogs and cats. But her dog is not my responsibility and I have arthritis in my knees so, I’m not about to be dragged on ice, by someone else’s responsibility.

I am secure here, with the exception of the fact that her ceiling is my floor and because she could have personnel swarming through here, for any reason, when I’m at work. Because the neighbor she smeared me to last year tried to get me to do things for her, including walk her dog and because he’d told me, when I locked myself out, that he knows how to pick locks, I purchased a NighLock for the back door, that leads to a stairwell that only she and I share. I was quite aware even then, that she could work on my door all day and no one would be the wiser. With the NightLock, she, the other neighbor or anyone else can pick that lock all day and they’re still not getting in. That, other than having a video doorbell on that door also.

Bottom line is that, I’m caught between a rock and a hard place, between 2 situations, regarding narcissism. Like yourself, I too have a sister who was mostly out of the picture, for over 30 years. 4 years ago, when she saw an opening, and I started to be scapegoated, because my mother could not control and abuse me, sis swooped in. She feels she is the self-appointed administrator of my mother’s estate, which includes 2 paid for properties. However, I had a tough time finding a lawyer who would take this drama, so I wrote up the Order to Show Cause, Verified Complaint and Proposed Form of Judgement myself, got a court date, we had a brief hearing and the judge has appointed an administrator, which will cost us both, but at least it will release my sister from her imagined throne, so we can get on with this, bring closure to what threadbare relationship we had, if any, and go out separately ways permanently. This will take 6 mo to 2 years, perhaps. Hope I live that long, with these stresses, including wondering if there will be any “changes” with my employment.

Thank you so so much. I have been thinking about you, as well. You are right that these are not easy situations. While these are often called “personality styles” and, as a result, sound quite benign, they are often quite deadly, either through attrition or absolutely directly.

I do get also that this is a game of survival. Narcissists live in survival mode. This neighbor is not just a narcissist, but is likely afraid of her fate, without my help. So, get feeling might be, “If it has to kill you, for me to live, I’ll be downright machiavellian about it!” Problem is, because narcissistic operate in the ether between legality and morality, she cannot physically attack me, so she has to pressure me, instead. She is well aware I don’t want any amount of convo with her. In the last couple of days, unless it’s just me, it has become a dance of, “Is she about to get home from work? I’ll walk my dog then. She has to walk her cat so, she can’t avoid me. Gee, she went in. I’ll go in. I think she’s out again. Wait, I didn’t see her car (because I left through another driveway).” And I know it’s quite possible that she not only wants to reconnect, but it’s for the purpose of applying subtle threats, like when she mentioned setting off the smoke detector the other day. I cannot outright say it’s a threat. But, I’m aware that the possibility of the worst is, “If you don’t get your a$$ down here and start doing what I tell you, I’ll burn this place down and your cats, while I’m here all day and you’re at work!” And, yes, I did hear of a story, from an expert in narcissistic behavior, where a narcissistic woman killed a neighboring family, merely because she couldn’t stand how happy they were. Set the place on fire.

For me, I don’t have everything in place, as it may sound. I am caught between a rock and a hard place. I have the narcissistic sister who, as long as she pays property taxes, in the one house she’s squatting in, she’ll be OK, until probate “maybe” makes some changes to that. Not trying to get her kicked out. But, she needed to be told by the authorities that she is not the administrator of the entire estate. I’m also aware that, while she said there was no Will left by Mom, either that was truth or she ripped it up, if it didn’t suit her needs. But, I found my stepfather’s Will in county records, which makes me as the successor executor to my mother and that I inherit everything and distribute as I see fit. Still, as it’s his Will, so far, it appears to have no legal impact. But, she was almost making it sound as if she was going to allow me to live in the other property. I would t have that. So, as we had a hearing, the judge has assigned a legal administrator. Similar to your sister, mom was mostly absent for over 30 years. But, as soon as mom wanted to bash me over the head, by switching ky sister into the golden child role, I guess it went to her head and she may have “decided”, since you owe me, you’ll live on the other property, under my heel. Apparently, she hasn’t met me… But, I am between a rock and a hard place, because of the probate situation, I can’t get move from the nut living downstairs, who will inevitably become worse and I also work for a woman who comes from her own familial narcissistic family, is the family scapegoat paying all the bills and is so enmeshed, that she is both victim and protector of her situation and would rather I not escape my own.

I have a question for you though. Did you find it difficult to obtain a lawyer? Because the reason I handled the initial paperwork myself, with no legal background, is because I either couldn’t find a lawyer who wanted to deal with what they felt was an already contested case, that there wasn’t enough bang for the buck for them, or with one lawyer, she wanted thousands prior to even making a contract, which I didn’t feel comfortable with.

Ultimately as you know, this entire thing is quite the ball and chain. Wonder if I’ll outlive probate. Perfect for my sis.

When she first asked, I mentioned the neighbor and her 3 kids. And, no, I’m not a careaholic. However, I’ve come to realize that, in a world with increasing narcissism, even walking your cat on a leash, who I DO care about, can make one a target. But, I love the word no and have no problem using it. I don’t care if it angers the person either. Because I already know that it’s far, far better than me being angry. It was why I took the advice of the psychological community and went no contact with my mother. Much safer for all concerned. I am responsible for my actions and knew that, if I felt trapped in an abusive situation, that would spell trouble for me, my sister and my mother.

it’s quite possible that, with this neighbor, it “may” be a racial issue. That she may be absolutely perplexed that I would have the idea that I could actually tell her no. For her, asking me may have been just a courtesy. But, I meant business, when I told her no 2 years ago. Nothing she has done, including smear campaigning has caused me to budge. She has not considered how miserable she might find herself, in getting to know me better. Narcissists, although I’m not qualified to diagnose and only to recognize traits, patterns and get the heck out of there, are fixed. She may have in her idiot mind that she would be getting free, 24 hour service, with a smile. I’ve blown that for her so, she is pissed, but still strategizing.

Also, I’ve seen this type of feedback with others, over the course of my lifetime. I am a black woman, single, no kids. I walk my cat. I don’t seem to have RBF (resting b*tch face). I look like a Yes Woman — until people get to know me better and learn that I’m very comfortable telling them no. They are betrayed by their own prejudice and assumptions, which is, quite simply, not my problem.

I'm so sorry to hear this Midkid. You know what they say.

'No good deed goes unpunished'.

I don’t need to send this woman across the street. We are DIRECTLY across the street from the senior center. There aren’t even any trees blocking it’s view. I doubt she’s asked them for guidance, because she wants free, personal care round the clock. Regardless of her maybe not being able to afford any care, she likely wants the best of care, provided by someone who feels trapped, rather than whatever the system will dole out. If that means she needs to jump on my back, I doubt she has any issues with it. Her problem is that she didn’t expect me to be firm in telling her no, let alone me telling her no at all. As far as she may be concerned, even with being married to a black inmate, in for the double murder of a woman and her child, is that she sees other black, female caregivers and doesn’t care that I am a working professional. That I need to become her caregiver. From her perspective, I am a menace to society, because I don’t know my place and don’t know that I don’t have the option of saying no.

Yours is yet another story that shows how rampant this is. I am so sorry. But, it doesn’t help you spot these people earlier and form solid boundaries.

This neighbor has never banged on my ceiling, because it didn’t get that far. I never told her yes. At this point, with her new dog, however, could be me, but it feels like there’s a game of trying to catch me when I get home from work or when I walk my cat. Wants to talk, although I told her 2 years ago, it would be our last convo. I overheard her complain about the new dog wanting to be walked, outside of just needing to eliminate. So, she thinks a Labrador wants to be indoors, looking at her all day, apparently. It’s a dog. She’s there 24/7. She wanted to adopt a dog. She needs a stuffed animal.

Also, I will not be giving her cards and baking cookies. She is the type to try to form ANY type of bond with you, even if it’s waving to other passersby, so they can see that you’re “BFFs”. Yeah, it was weird and it was a red flag.

So, I’m not friendly with her, she knows it and that’s even by my scarcity and my earbuds, when I’m out with my cat.

Please don’t ask why I have to walk my cat. He is a personality unto himself, who must see his people and dogs.

I am keeping contact to a minimum, because I well understand narcissistic abuse and recognize the red flags and patterns. I am barely offering a hi, although I’m pretty sure she still feels both dodged and ignored. Narcissistic types are looking for ANY (font NEVER big enough) form of contact. Hi, bye is too much actually.

Like others that have learned about narcissistic abuse, I have been hesitant to contact the authorities, for fear of retaliation, particularly, as I go to work most days of the week and she is here 24/7. I don’t need to stretch my mind, to know the type of mischief an idle, entitled, desperate person can get into and that’s even with the place being decently secured, because I am still an apartment dweller. I am, however, trying to get prepared to move. But, it may take a long time, due to probate.

Just saw this after I just posted my last comment, to close this out. While letting it go, personally, isn’t exactly an option, given the actual reality of it, closing this topic out is my thought exactly.

imout01,

I just wanted to touch base after your neighbor actually did call the Fire Dept. after tripping her alarm, just as she threatened to do just 2-3 days back. That says she's serious in causing whatever disruption she can for you, but also that she's not terribly clever and is somewhat guileless in her efforts to manipulate those around her.

My most memorable run-in with an NPD, apart from my disruptive sib and longtime gone biofather, was with one who operated with a genius IQ; he was good, a former 'friend'-only, btw. An NPD of high intelligence and need is where it can get hairy and then no JADE has to be very public and involve many others so as to avoid their wrath coming down in any personal way. This one's life had many working parts in which I was but one cog and I was able to back out without further complications by informing several others of my actions; he didn't want to lose face and moved on. I was informed later that he ran into someone's fist, but it was none of my concern.

Clearly, you're not dealing with a terribly smart individual, however cagey and manipulative she may be; she's not dealing with a full deck. You can now anticipate some of her next moves because she apparently threatens first, which I can find funny, but only because I'm not the one living above her and subjected to her delusional ideation and predation.

This call to the FD may have presented you with the very opportunity you need. Since the FD was asking her basic orientation questions, and they already have your info as living at that address and she tried to rope you in as having somehow caused the alarm, you can now easily call them and report her prior threat of 'setting off the fire alarm' and report this as both intentional and false and an obvious call for help by a very vulnerable adult. They will then quite likely report her for this incident, one that cost the the city some budget money, and she may be charged for this offense or be made to pay. I would jump on this, she involved costly public services and that was a huge miscalculation on her part. You can also add that you fear, based on her past behaviors, that she may actually do something that requires their coming to her address and you want to avert this potentiality in any way possible. Ask for their help or advice in dealing with this person living below you, like, do they find that people take these situation further to garner attention?

Dear imout01, I do sincerely hope that this all settles and that you're in process of sorting out the various stressors and finding a way to not allow one stressor to meld into another and cause an overwhelming tangle of issues. Keep taking good care of yourself and rid your life of whatever unnecessary stress you can. I hope and trust that all will resolve and that you can go about living your quite life and become free of the problems now facing you. I wish you well.

Walk in Grace.

We’re actually trying to close this out. Your comment has provided good reason though.

Probably a few commenters would wonder how me considering whether one of my neighbors issue is race, would be considered as race baiting, in a world where many have suffered, wherever their race. Neither race needing to make their peace or be more comfortable with it, than another.

In actuality, you have the most angry, aggressive and polarizing comment on this thread. A thread where my initial question had to do with was seeing if there were other sources for my neighbor to tap into, as I have not, cannot, and will not be her caregiver. I also hope that, if you find yourself under threat, by a neighbor, who appears to be aggressive, covertly or otherwise, you take both notice and action. Because, believe it or not, it is a frazzling and dangerous thing and not to be muzzled for fear of being labeled as a worry wart over nothing. But, as she is likely a narcissist, that I said no is, well, aggressive, out of line and me stepping out of my crease. IF my race is at play, for her, my race is HER PROBLEM and not my own. I’m quite comfortable in my own skin. Technically, the psychological profession would consider your comment to be a textbook enabler comment. I have been cordial to this neighbor and what she has offered me is the “opportunity for decided servitude” all by her lonesome, without consideration that I have the right to say no. To most, that is aggression.

Lastly, the good thing is that she called the fire department last night, because her smoke detector was beeping. Told them she didn’t know if it was the battery or me upstairs. I’ve heard her outside before. I’m under the general impression that, if she has a problem, it must be because I haven’t acquiesced to her wants and needs. Fortunately, I heard the firemen ask what might be considered cognitive questions, like how old it she and when is her birthday. Other neighbors have also raised an eyebrow. None of them think I’ve been aggressive towards her. Only that she’s been appropriately avoided. So, you’re welcome to your opinion as, it Carrie’s little weight, in terms of whether I’ve mistreated her here or am race baiting on this forum. Surely, there’ll always be someone who will try to turn an observation or curiosity about a person’s actions into something to muzzle them about, even when it might be absolutely applicable to the situation or at least a consideration. My guess is that I need not wait long, to hear that this forum is tainted with geriatric baiting. I guess the question is, “How’d you even get there, unless you just wanted to?” But never mind.🙄 As I’ve said, caregivers and the aged need help. Sorely. They shouldn’t have their bandwidth wasted by the continuance of this thread, even without it going on a tangent. Questions have been answered. Great advise has been offered. Move on.”

I don’t agree the thread should be closed simply because op now has a problem with the content she solicited.

As a possible Cluster B, I recognize that she may have also wanted control. I live right above he her. That’s a “you can’t hide” layout, when I know I will not have anyone telling me, “Since you’re home or awake, I have tasks for you.” That does not work for me. Obviously, a person has a problem, when they think they can assign tasks to other people, who they’re on par with. I’m a neighbor. Not a handmaid, living in her attic. She’s also dense, like some hoovering narcissists would be. Understand that narcissists don’t entirely move on, when you decide to go no contact. Not only did this woman seem to feel there was anyone else more suitable to assume the position, but she didn’t like hearing no. I understand disappointment in hearing no. But, skip the anger and retaliation or you’ve stepped out of your crease. Narcissists often have what is called a “harem garage”. The discard of a person doesn’t exactly mean you can go on about your business. It means, I’m putting you on hold, if and until I might need you again.. They don’t want to hear no and may even be “sure” you said yes, because that’s what they wanted to hear. I’ve learned this from professionals, as well as my mother. My mother’s problem is that, when she discarded me, I locked the door. She had one option then. Good or bad — my sister. I’m disinterested in what these disorder people heard or wanted to hear.

I’m unclear as to what this woman would think I could relate to. If I’m not a caregiver to start off with, what is it she thinks I’d be relating to? She knows I don’t even have children. So, what would I know about caregiving? I’m also not hear during the day. Am I going to give up my livelihood and future, for some neighbor who just decided it? No. Am I going to be at her beckon call? No. What would she intend to do in regards to my pursuits? Likely, she’d give me the placid look, as if to convey, “Well, you know that’s over.”

In regards to race, I know that she, just like a neighbor a few doors down, who thought I’d assume the position, just by me being lucky enough to be invited in (oh, goodie🙄😏), have probably seen many a black person, as a caregiver here. But, through their blind ignorance, somehow, they seemed to think that they’d just insert themselves in my life, either on par or above my career and for $0 compensation and that would be that. Comical, indeed. They implied what they thought was the worth of my life and I implied what I thought was the worth of theirs, by simply turning tail and walking or saying no. I’d have to be deaf, dumb, and blind to not recognize, in communicating with other neighbors, that I am the only person being asked, even though I am not unemployed or under employed, like many of our other neighbors. I’d also have to be a nut, to not be angrily insulted. The fact of the matter is that is that race plays a role in caregiving, even when people either don’t want to hear it or want people to be muzzled about it. Caregiving for a loved one is one thing. But, being “told” you’ll be caring for someone, in all likelihood, because you’re the black girl in the building, is yet another and they have discovered that I will not have it, to their absolute shock. I’m also not gaslit, minimized or told what racism is or isn’t, that I’m imagining things, or overthinking. As a black woman, I have not needed to have a prominent black historian, as my father, to be told. I I’ve just needed to step outside my door and experience life. I can see myself being asked things that prejudiced people feel I’d be more suitable for and comfortable with, than my lofty ideas of being a high performing employee for a major, global corporation, which I am, so not lofty. The only way a person tells you to keep it down, is because they feel it’s unimportant, because they don’t have a dog in this hunt. I’d not do that to someone else. You didn’t see me call the Jewish experience poppycock. Because I’m empathetic and respectful.