If my mom has to live in a nursing home will they just take all her money?

phuckme:
Every county in the US has an Aging and Disability Resource Center (sometimes called Area Agency on Aging) that acts as a clearing house of sorts for all federal and state programs available to assist the elderly and disabled including guidance as to health insurance options, Medicaid, Medicare, and SSI related programs. I would also suggest looking into applying for Social Security Disability Insurance which would automatically permit Medicare eligibility after 2 years (may or may not be an advantage depending how far you are into your 62 year).
The Agency in your area can be found here: http://agencyonaging4.org/services/

Are you a veteran?

I am just now starting to go through this...I have no money, no job, no family to help me....I am in so much pain, health premiums, deductible for me, I am 62, is so high I cannot afford to pay for my health....seriously, the ONLY way out I can see is suicide....I worked all my life, to pay for those that are on welfare, no I need help, I can go to h*ll, because I am over the hill....there should be a little pill to end it all...I am not just in pain, physically...I am suffering.

Gosh, there ought to be a law on the amount a nursing home can charge for a resident. YES they will take all your money. Now days I think that is the idea...for the GOV to get ones last penny.

I came across this resource (facilityresourcegroup website) and found it very helpful for my mother. They helped me secure government benefits to pay for skilled care at a great facility without losing her assets. Normally, we would have to spend down her assets to qualify for government assistance. I had no idea there this was an option. Mom got a great skilled care facility and we did not have to pay for it or spend down assets to receive government assistance..

I came across this resource (facilityresourcegroup website) and found it very helpful for my mother. They helped me secure government benefits to pay for skilled care at a great facility without losing her assets. Normally, we would have to spend down her assets to qualify for government assistance. I had no idea there this was an option. Mom got a great skilled care facility and we did not have to pay for it or spend down assets to receive government assistance..

I want to first ask for compassionate responses, if possible, because I'm already wracked with guilt about even asking this question. Okay, I currently live with my mother in our family home. I moved back to NJ in 2009 to renovate the house so that my parents could have a senior suite on the main floor and I would take the top floor. My mother's knee issues were making it almost impossible for her to climb the 16 stairs to the top floor. She has since had two knee replacement operations. My move was to be temporary but in 2010, at the surprising age of 43, I got pregnant. I had my son in 2011. Both my parents were a great blessing and support and as a single mom with a demanding job in IT I decided to remain in the home during my son's first two years. Because of work stress, I resigned from my job in 2013, looking to make a career change that would allow me more time with my son. Note, throughout this time and when I moved home I paid rent and helped with household expenses, along with $30000+ dollars in renovation costs. In May 2013, my incredibly healthy 76 year old dad suffered a cervical spinal injury which left him paralyzed from the neck down. It took our family through a tailspin, but praise God after surgery and extensive rehab, he regained much of his mobility but is wheel chair bound and requires full tine nursing care. The family home has too many levels, narrow doorways and other barriers for him to have returned home and neither I or my mom would have been able to care for a strapping 6'2 man. He was qualified for Medicaid so that was a blessing. However, my job situation got further put on hold as I was dealing with his care, a toddler and my elderly mom.at home who started showing signs of dementia. This year, I finally was blessed with a job, back in IT. So, what's the question? As i mentioned, my mother is in the early stages of dementia. As she was always a bit narcissistic and a rage a holic, the dementia has exacerbated those behaviors. It's been frightening at times and stressful living with her. Many here have talked about the paranoia, accusations, being cussed out, etc. She was on an anti psychotic for a while, and also anti anxiety and anti depressant meds, but now just on namenda and aricept. Her moods are more balanced. However, I am weary and tired. She is able to manage (still shop for food, drive to familiar places), I put all her bills on automatic bill pay (though she is suspicious about that and how stuff is getting paid). My son is five and I want a home just for me and him. I want to move. However, I'm wracked with guilt about doing so and then also angry cause I'll still have to help manage her household and mine and my dad in the nursing home. It's damned if I do, damned if I don't. My peace would be if she sold the home and went to live in an assisted/adult living apt and not this big, older home that constantly needs work. She uses two rooms in the whole house - the kitchen and bedroom. She sits in her bdrm all day watching tv. She doesn't need this big house. However, if she sells, how much of the sale can she keep and how much will Medicaid want? That's the question I wanted to pose. I would appreciate any insight. Thank you.

Angels Watching - please, because this is an important situation which may get overlooked by being tacked on at the end of an irrelevant posting - please make a separate question out of this.

I myself don't know what the next legal steps should be, but someone else may have run into this same situation and have some helpful answers for you.

There is a box at the top of the first page of the forum that says "What is your question" and then the orange button beside that says "submit". That's where you type in your question. Hope you get a better response.

Say a person works in a nursing home and she/he sees patient abuse 1st hand and they report it to their supervisor but nothing happens, because its their word against the abusers word and because he /she hasn't worked there very long and the place is already short handed he/she feels like thats the reason nothing is being done. What would be the next legal steps that they should take?

My Mother has a whole life insurance policy, cash value approximately $6,500, which she wants to be used to pay for her funeral services. If she first has to go on Idaho Medicaid, how do we preserve those funds to cover her final expenses?

My brother and my mother have a a joint bank account, both savings and checking. Can he take the money, or half the money before she goes into a nursing home and avoid the 5 year look back?

If she may need to apply for Medicaid within the next five years it really isn't a good idea to be giving away assets now.

This would be a good time to consult an attorney specializing in Elder Law. Get things lined up to be able to apply in the most advantageous way.

Mother is in a nursing home at this point May or may not have to stay She wants to gift each of her sons (4) $5000.00 for Christmas.May she do0 that??? If so, would they have to come up with that amount to give back if she has to eventually go on Medicaid in a few months or years ??

dberry - Not really, unless you have in place a legal contract with your parents, that states that they owe you for all monies spent on them. $ and time your spend on your parents without a contract for services, is viewed as normal love, care and compassion between family members.

SS doesn't "take over the house" nor does the NH or AL facility.

SS has nothing to do with your parents home BUT if your parents apply to go onto MedicAID to pay for NH costs their SS monthly income MUST be paid to NH.

The AL or NH facility doesn't take over the home, all they want to be paid for their services whether it's private pay, LTC insurance or Medicaid (if they participate).

If your parents have a home it is an exempt asset for Medicaid review, so it does not have to be sold for them to go onto Medicaid if they meet all the other medical and financial criteria for Medicaid. BUT all their $ (whether assets or income) must be spend on them or their care in the NH. So there will be- in reality- none of mom or dad's $ to pay for whatever (taxes, yard, utilities, etc) on the house. So either family comes up with the $ to do that or the house ends up being sold. This is where it gets sticky and your need to speak with an elder care attorney who practices in the county where the property is located. My mom is in a NH and still has her home. Under her states Medicaid guidelines if the house is empty (which it is) and she still maintaines it as her principal homestead (which she does) then upon her death, I can let MERP (Medicaid Estate Recovery Program) know that I plan on filing an exemption for all expenses that I or another family member have paid on the property from Day 1 on of her NH stay. And that exemption amount is deducted from the MERP tally on her. MERP is not automatic and MERP does an evaluation on whether to even file a claim or lein against the estate. MERP has to go through probate court under whatever the death laws are in your state. My mom's state is a claim state and MERP a class 7 claim, so MERP recovery is low as there are 6 other levels of claims paid first. Still happens but lower than a state where MERP is an = claim state or an actual lein placed state. Now if instead, the house was sold today, then all the proceeds from the sale of the house has to then be spent on her needs and her care at the NH. Now each state does this differently, and some states have it where they are disqualified completely from Medicaid and have to go through the spend down at the NH and then reapply but the $ is self-directed for spending; other states have it where they are still accepted in the Medicaid program but ineligible for Medicaid until all the funds spent on their care with the state having oversight in some way on the funds. The attorney will know what's what for you. Good luck.

if I pay the expenses for my parent to live a assistant living facility and my parent goes to a nursing home, am I entiled to get my money back out of the sale of my parents house before ss take over the house?

Cream - your mom needs to see an elder care attorney to deal with this as each state law and interpretations will make a big difference. While she is there she can also get the paperwork done for you or whomever to be her DPOA. MPOA and update her will and whatever else is suggested, like "Guardianship in Case of Incapacity" done if that works in your state. The house - if it is a legal residence and homestead - is an exempt asset under Medicaid no matter what.

The nursing home doesn't want the house, they want to be paid for their services either through private pay, long term care insurance or Medicaid (if they participate in that program). The state doesn't want the house, but they do want to you to pay for your care from your assets until you reach the minimum in non- exempt assets allowed (this is usually called the "spend-down") and then after death whatever proceeds come from those assets via the MERP program IF there are no exemptions. Your parents aren't divorced so I would imagine that your mom would be viewed for Medicaid purposes as "the community spouse" and as such is allowed to keep a significant amount of $ (about 109K but varies by state) to enable her to remain in the community and in the house. She does not herself need to become impoverished for your dad to go into the NH. But how this gets sticky is that Medicaid looks at the overall couple finances to determine qualification and the first day of admission into the NH is the day at which that is set. This is often called the "snapshot" day and takes into account both of their assets unless they are really divorced or how your state views legal separation and property ownership. If your mom has $ in a retirement program or $ in savings and it takes her over the limit for community spouse $ max, she could be required to spend it towards his care as they are still married. You need legal to sort all this out & get the property transfer done & whatever else has been hanging about.

My mom and dad got legally separated 15 years ago the court gave her the house but she never took his name off the house she has her paperwork from court stating the house is hers but now my father had a stroke and need to be in a nursing home will her house be in any danger of being taken

Well luckily mom was thinking..she did already purchase a niche in a mausoleum next to my father and older sister. She had money put aside for creamation but when the dementia set in ..she found the money in her drawer and spent it. I know all her wishes because we sat down 10 years ago and told me right after she had me assigned as durable power of attorney. We have a DNR filled out and the money in the bank was to be divided only 6 ways because one of my siblings had exhausted her share years ago. What was left in her checking was suppose to go to me. She appreciated everything I did for her up until the dementia got ahold of her. Up until last year July..she was the old mom I knew and loved. She is not so anymore. I don't know who she is...but it's not her. My sister inlaw is a para legal and I have her support when it comes to legal matters. As for the rest of my siblings they are the best support family I will ever have. They are totally behind me whatever my decision is. My mom raised us all well..so sad that she can't see it that way anymore. It's stressful for sure..but I will do it as long as I am able. Thanks so much for your advice.

msdaizy, it is a sad reality that few middle class/working class elders are able to leave a financial legacy to their children these days, especially if they develop chronic conditions/ imparitments. $16,000 won't go very far toward a care center if Mom needs it. And it really doesn't go very far split 7 ways, does it?

If she doesn't already have a prepaid burial/cremation plan, that would be a good thing to do at this point. The will reduce her savings considerably but it is something that has to be paid now or later, and it gives many elders a sense of comfort to know their children won't have that financial burden.

Another thing to consider is having a personal care agreement in place, so that your mother can pay you, at least room and board and perhaps for care services. This eliminates the stressful conflict of one child doing all the caring and yet all the other sharing equally in the estate (if there is one).

All of these issues can be ironed out in detail with an elder law attorney.

Good luck.

Wow...okay so I was almost thinking the same thing here. Mom saved what little bit she could so she could leave something for us kids..7 of us. She has a measly 12000 in the bank and 4000 in her checking. I have taken her in my home now for 3 months and have POA. But had no idea what I was getting into. She is 91 and has progressive dementia. I am going out of my mind with frustration. She isn't abusive yet..but is starting to show signs of it. I have started to rethink everything and I know she would just be so sad knowing what she is doing. She was the best little mom in the world. But this is not her at all. I might have to let everyone down and set her up somewhere..but that money will be gone. What can I do to save it?

Jeannegibbs - Since this was our first time looking into it - you could very well be correct. Maybe nothing has changed -except the look back for IL. The Elder Law Attorney told us that the look back for IL was 3 years until July 1, 2012 - then it became 5 years.

We appreciated the hour of his time - it was VERY enlightening. A person should see an Elder Law Attorney as soon as they become a care giver. It can save a lot of heartache and possibly costly mistakes as far as handling the financial affairs. What seems 'fair' to us isn't to Uncle Sam.

oldcodger2, I am very interested in MERP right now. I can't find any information on the Internet regarding changes made to that program this year.

The five-year look-back has ALWAYS come first, before/at the time of application. That is certainly how it was 9 years ago when we applied.

MERP has nothing to do with the look back. It has always applied to the assets remaining at the time the recipient dies, but since all other assets were reviewed and needed to be spent at the time of application, that only applies to the house (and maybe a car ??).

What you describe does not sound like a change to me.

And it is always a good idea to have legal counsel for this application, especially if there have been transfers of assets in the last five years.

Vicki - you will need an elder care attorney to sort this out so that it can pass Medicaid review. Co-mingling of assets is sticky to deal with and needs good legal. The good news is that you can use mom's 50K to pay for this and will be the best $ she has spend in a long time. She will (and should) be expected to spend down her assets to get to Medicaid compliance level of about 2K for assets. The CD's will likely involve a transfer penalty for the last 2 years if she needs to go in a NH like mañana. Otherwise you can work within buying her things that she needs ($ must be for her and her needs or her property) for the spend-down till she goes into a NH. Get a certified elder care attorney and go by thier advice. Good luck.

my mother has altzhimers and may need a nursing home. She had 50000.00 in cds and they were in my name and her name. They have been like that for 9 years. I took her name off approsimatley 3 years ago and they are just in my name. the house was put in my name when my father died in 1999. the car is in my name and her name. what will happen if she has to go to nursing home now and we apply for medicaide?

The new look back date became effective for all states on July 1, 2012 from what we were told. Obamacare.

We saw an Elder Law Attorney last month. MERP now as of July 1, 2012 comes FIRST - not after death. It changes everything. See an Attorney ASAP if you have financial questions. It is too important to guess or hope. IF YOU SPEND MONEY OR TRANSFER ASSETS WITHINT 5 YEARS - you have to give it all back. They now do the '5 year look back FIRST.'

They will allow the person to be admitted - and it does take a couple months or so for Medicaid to come through and maybe even longer for the look back. BUT, if there was any assets given away, spent inappropriately, transferred, etc. Medicaid WILL NOT PAY and the bill goes to either the person admitted or to their POA to pay - to the tune of $3,000 -$5000 per month on average for however long they were there so far. It can get pretty messy. See an attorney - 1st hour is free.

jane & codger - what you will be dealing with is MERP. Keeping the home imho really depends alot on what your real estate market is like, what the house could be on the current real estate market, how much you can balance and how big of a sense of humor you have....My mom is in a NH and on Medicaid and still has her exempt asset homesteaded property. The house sits empty and I and another family member pay for all on it, and will deal with MERP after she dies.Under her states MERP program, all expenses related to the empty homesteaded property (taxes, insurance, repairs, maintenance, etc) can be a exemption against the MERP tally but you need to file for this and with documentation.

All the states have to have MERP - Medicaid Estate Recovery (or Recoup) Program (or Policy) in order to participate in Medicaid (which is a joint federal and state program BUT administered by each state). So there is quite the variety of what happens in MERP depending on your state law.

In my mom's state (TX), Medicaid via MERP can put a claim on the property after death.When you apply for Medicaid you acknowledge the MERP is in effect in your state. The "can" part is important because MERP has all sorts of exemptions and also has to evaluate whether to do the legal needed for the claim or lien which can
vary by state. Now TX is a level of claim probate state and MERP is a Class 7 claim so there are 6 levels of claims ahead of MERP and with higher standing to be paid. Because of that MERP is somewhat lower in TX than in other states. Other states have MERP as an equal level lien on the estate and the estates assets (like the house). Other states have it such that whatever is the state's homestead exemption amount is discounted from the MERP tally. MS does this and it's set as the first 75K (maybe 65K), so if a house is worth 72K it is totally exempt from MERP in MS. What your states probate / death laws are make a big difference on what happens and how to deal with MERP to your best advantage.

For us, my mom's house would be a very difficult sale and would cost a good bit to get market ready and then more $ to maintain it "staged" for the possibly many many months it could be on the market. In discussing all this with my mom's attorney, it was figured out that $ was better spent on IL and other health needs (like expensive dental care) rather than the house. Now my mom is in her 90's so the probability is such that we won't have to maintain the house for years and years (yes, this is not very kum-ba-ya but it's the reality) but if my mom had been early 80's with the liklihood of a decade plus in a NH then we probably would have taken another approach. Whatever the case, you need experienced legal to explain the options you have in your state. Good luck.

I am not sure where I posted it and I would re- post it except that all my emails recently went 'POOF' :0( But look at some other of my posts and I put in a link that I was given where you can put in your zip code and come up with a list of Elder Law Attorneys in your area. It worked for us!!

I don't think so - the nursing home or Medicaid just puts a lien on it. But I am not positive about this. As I mentioned before, the first hour with an Elder Law Attorney is usually free - it was for us - and an hour was all we needed - found out we could not proceed just yet. After the first hour - the price per hour varies depending on your location. In our medium sized city it runs around $200 and hour - but it is money well spent. Otherwise you are flying in the dark and this is stuff a person really NEEDS to know in order to make informed decisions.

Both of my in-laws went into a nursing facility this past month....after a hospital stay. Their home is paid for but needs a lot of work. Their savings amount to maybe $15000.00. They have already applied for Medicaid, as I was told it takes a long while to get it, and I know the money will be spent down. Eventually, their medicare takes their social security also. My question: The home will have to be sold to pay the nursing facility....must I renovate the house before selling? Their money will be gone, and we would have to pay it ourselves. There is only 1 son left in the family.