When someone has POA, how and why do they get away with doing what they want?

I see a lot of similar posts. Who would be the best authority to report your observations? How would you keep yourself being sued for false accusations?

My sister tricked my mom. She was suppose to be signing a payable upon death but when she handed my mom the pen, she put her other hand over the top of the form. My mom had dementia by the way. She wanted to make all the decisions and to be able to sign documents and get her grubby hands on my moms money, which she did. And she put her mental daughter as first medical poa. They used and abused my mom. Mom couldn't even leave us anything because my sister claim it as her own. It got so bad that my mom said she wished my sister would die. My mom passed away on May 13, 2016. She died sad and lonely and scared because of my sister. I tried everything I could to get Mom help but APS chose to believe her. For my moms sake and so she didn't die in vain, I'm pursuing charges on her and her daughter. When it comes to lying, they are the best but I'm hoping, like the last judge, they will be able to see through her lies. So yes, POA in the wrong hands can be deadly. What happened to family sitting down and discussing $h#t and granting last wishes?

Please give us readers a break. Long endless posts are impossible to read.While I for one am interested and enjoy helping if the posts are short sections it helps. This Not a personal attack or criticism we all have to learn about posting. The observation applies to all posts.

well, first she told her son(POA) the my granddaughter will move in and take care of me and he said ok. Then I quit me job(working 10pm to 6am shift) cause it was taking a toll on me. My gram said I do not want any money, I am here taking care of her and no body else is willing they just want me to move out, and my son will take care of you( I lived with her a little over 6yrs) . Boy she was wrong! when she was not feeling well and she did not want to go but we called the ambulance. so a few days went by and I called her son ask did you find out what is wrong(I have been taken her to all her doctor apt. and dealing with and always let him know how she was doing but the main problem was depression on count of no coming to visit. I tried everything to even go take her to visit them and got ok I let you know. Their was one daughter and grant that came on the weekend but always complaint about the parking and the students. She also never had patience with her would yell at her. Well any way no unsure and I say she will come right. unsure at this point, well I said she wants to. Left it at that but 15mins later as I pull up to my gram's house and he was outside waiting for me. Soon as I got out of the car he was in my face saying I'm in charge you have no say what happens. I replied her wish is to come and he said she never told me that .A liar he is cause my gram asked if I will take care of her then there is no reasons they have to move me out. My gram just wanted to be home to pass away. so the last time I went to see her in the hospital. my aunt and cousin was there and when I asked my gram I find what is going on so we can get you home my cousin jump up screaming no she is not and have a fit and when I tried to ask more of my gram and what is going on. My starts next on me, so I said to my lets go It is not fair to gram. Thinking I come back when no one is around. Well I got back to gram's house were I lived. My one uncle who never came to visit with the other one who is POA. Came to the house and told me to get out. I said call the cops. Well here the hole time my gram was dying and did not tell me or my mother(the oldest). He called my mom that next day and told her she is being moved to a hospice. I was mad and by the I got there, they had her drugged up. I told I was sorry and new it was not what you wanted. On the way out I said to my uncle well now you come to visit and you know she wants to pass at home and walked out. So I was going to take the dogs to my sister's to watch and come back to stay with her until she passes away, but I got a phone call and was told I am not aloud back. That next day I tried to apologize so I could be there with her. My mom got a call that she passed away. I could not believe they could not bring her home. Now the day after they called my mom again to tell her to get your daughter out of the house .I do not want to stay but I have things to move out , animals to worry about and no job at this time. If my gram knew that my uncle used me like this. I sure she would of had it in writing.

ThereIsNoTry: That was the OP who asked that.

POAs can include a variety of things if individually drawn up. A medical and legal POA can be combined into one document. A POA can go into effect immediately, such as when a person is homebound but still in their right mind. It can state that the agent can specify who can see the patient while in the hospital. I don't know about other places. That is for use only when contentious family members or others upset the patient. No one has the "right" to read or have a copy of the POA but the signers of the document.

Someone asked how a POA can be abused. If someone is POA and also caregiver and heir, they might not spend money on things that the person would like, maybe vacations or new bedding or nice clothes. Maybe they would look out for the person's physical well being, make sure they are well fed and get to any doctor's appointments. Any money not spent after all goes into their inheritance. Also, the POA might be the caregiver who accidentally restricts access to the person so that she never has to deal with scrutiny and always has the elevated rol of the "only one who cares". I often am told how and what to say to such a person, because POA doesn't want person to become "worked up". Just one possible scenario that keeps me up at night. And in this case, it is all at a subliminal level, POA really thinks it's the right thing to do, because they know best. My way or the high way.

POA is a tool. Its there to carry out the decisions the person has made iff can no longer make them. Helps when they no longer can pay bills. Mine allows me to buy and sell. But, it does not give u the right to make decisions if the person can still do it for themselves. A POA can be revolked by the person who had it issued.

Cleverdish, that sounds like an awful situation! A couple of points for you to consider:

You have more power in this situation than you allow yourself. Do not let your sister manipulate you for her personal benefit.

As long as your mother has not been declared incompetent to make decisions for herself, she can create a new Power of Attorney at any time. It will replace any POAs dated before it. I didn't have to go to a lawyer for the POA we have for my MIL. I just googled it and my state, and a usable one came up. I printed it out, and had it signed by her in front of a notary. I've used it all over the place, and never had a problem. You can also go online to Legalzoom or another similar site, and get a document generated for a reasonable fee.

I know there is a chance that she cannot change her POA anymore because of her dementia. I'll continue with more info, just in case she can or in case it might help someone else.

There are a few designations to consider. If you don't want to take on all the responsibilities involved in a POA, your mother can designate certain POA powers to you as individuals, and also make certain powers so you must act "jointly."

For example, if your mother would have said that in matters of real estate, you must act jointly, then you would have BOTH had to sign off on any real estate transactions. So, it would be useful in these situations to take everything into consideration and talk to one's parent about the reasoning for dividing or putting checks on powers.

From the point of view of someone who is a POA, it is much less preferable to share powers with siblings under a POA. It can get very contentious and create more problems. Still, requiring multiple people to sign off on certain things can keep any one individual from abusing power.

In your instance, which is after the fact, if your mother cannot change her POA you may be able to get legal help for free through a state program or the VA. The arrangement where your mother is paying rent to live in her house that she was made to sign over is incredibly suspect and possibly illegal. Seek out qualified legal advice in your state. Check with your local or county social services department to see what might be available to you that you can afford. You may be able to get help for free not for you, but for your mother.

In the mean time, I would NOT put my life on hold and go to Cleveland to care for your sister. There are plenty of people who don't have a family member to provide them with 'round the clock care. The social worker at the hospital will help your sister come up with other arrangements, like staying in a Nursing Rehab facility for as long as she needs care. Don't let her manipulate you into this.

i have been looking after my mum for 15 years and now she is in a nursing home . i dont know where the poeple with poa wont let me see her they claim ive been abusing her but thats not so she is alone and scared with out me i love her and feel terribly sorry for her because two people she trusted has lied and schemed to get her estate . the house is already up for sale 29 days after admission to a nursing home . i need to be with her and she needs me the others are rubbing their hands together waiting to get her money but they never ever did anything for her never so help me god.

I never wanted the job of DPOA, but there was no one else to do it!

Just FYI, most POA documents are only valid and in effect when the person can no longer make decisions for themselves. Some people prefer to just hand everything over for their POA to handle BUT unless they are determined to lack capacity, they win and their own decision must be honored.

How much power a POA has in Minnesota depend upon which boxes are checked. One of the options was to give the final say on decisions to the POA even if it disagreed with what the granters thought best. My friends knew they couldn't keep all the facts together in making decisions and gave me the authority to decide what was best. Our 40 year friendship developed deep trust and caring for the basis of this granting of authority. It's a big job to go through all their stuff and figure out the best way to dispose of things to sell their condo, but no one else would do this but a long time, trusted friend. I consider it an honor and as I work with their things, I get the sense that the now deceased wife is with me--something I never conceived of happening. It brings back good feelings and memories of our long friendship and what she was like. I don't tell the husband about all I am doing on his behalf because it would burden him to know. He is happy in his memory care apartment and is doing what he most enjoys at this stage of his dementia--eating good meals with his new found friends, watching TV reruns of Bonanza, Gunsmoke, Judge Judy, the news, and reading his daily newspaper. That he is content is what I had hoped for.

I had POA for my ex husband..His daughter was named successor if I could not take on the responsibility....His siblings threatened and harassed me and finallyI
revoked my POA..Since then the Daughter has made false allegations against me and the Assisted living facility has refused to let me take him off the Premises...
Now the ALF has banned me from visiting him...His family lives miles away and no one except me has been visiting him or brings items for Personal care..He has lived with me after our Divorce and we have been together for 35 years...I have had not help from any agency or the Ombudsman for the facility.

Thanks for the advice caringson12. My sister decided to be POA, without speaking to either out older brother or me. She bought Mom's house at a steal, and charged her $500 rent, when her mortgage had been $300, with $3k to pay it off which would have been a point of pride for Mom. Since it was;t safe for Mom to live there alone (which was evidently part of the purchase 'deal') I (local middle child daughter) was 'told' I had two weeks to 'get her out of there' as sister was losing money on the arrangement. (Meanwhile I was there every weekend cleaning, washing, gardening, woodchopping, shower-assisting, etc.) Mom moved in with me, and then 'visited' her fully furnished house for two years on weekends for a few hours, while paying the 'rent' because she felt sorry for my sister, who was having trouble 'unloading' it. Sister is still POA. Mom is with me, going on year six. 93 years of age, dementia, can't walk, heart trouble. I filed for VA pension, Dad was WWII. It took a few years, but approval came. Stipend is $1,149. a month. AID AND ATTENDANCE, which of course, means me, since I cannot work (even from home) due to the intensive nature of the caregiving. (Chiro 3x week just finished, now radiation, 3x week + other docs; bathing, all chores, etc.) Mom told me not to tell sister about VA pension, then recently decided to tell her. It's in a different bank, mine, separate account, with her permission and blessing. I'm second on POA paperwork, and this is all I handle. Mom's SS is in another bank, joint with my sister, she handles all co-pays on docs, and is the be-all end-all for this account. I really don't care, she likes to be in control of things. It's additional paperwork for me, as all bills come here (since the docs insist they go to Mom's legal residence) so I have to scan and email. Here's the kicker: I quite my full time $48K job as cemetery counselor to attend to my sisters needs in 2009, when sister informed me she needed a bone marrow transplant. I was to move temporarily to Cleveland since she could not be released from hospital unless she had a full time in home aid. (Married, no kids) This illness had been known for five years, during which time she had decided not to be on speaking terms with me. She insists Mom not be approved for Medicaid. I have had NO RESPITE in the over five years Mom is here except for three hours paid by my sister last year to 'test the waters' (I was still onsite, Mom was just seeing if she 'liked' the person) with a rest person; five hours when sister visited in February, and past month we were finally approved for nine hours a week through Elder Options (state) but it was immediately cut to four hours, since THERE's NO FUNDING. IN FIVE AND A HALF YEARS, that's been my 'break' to make a quick run to the grocery store. SO, friends here, if sister is out of state and RECENTLY HOSPITALIZED AGAIN FOR CHEMO AND INFUSIONS, and Mom LOVES HERE, and the AID AND ATTENDANCE PAYS FOR THE UTILITIES, CAR AND GAS (I paid my house off in 2004) CAN SHE GET HER HANDS ON IT? I have nothing for lawyers, and hope it doesn't come to that. I took out measly 401K in 2009 to keep my home afloat while I was in Cleveland to care for sister nine months. (My adult children looked in on grandma- she was still at her place 45mi away then.) Please- anyone- if you can give me any positive feedback - very uncomfortable now. AND EXHAUSTED. Thanks.

It's hard to know, without knowing you, how to answer this question. Siblings often disagree about what is "best" for their parents. Elderly parents often suffer from cognitive problems, and sometimes POA's must go against their wishes if they believe it is in their parent's best interest. As long as the parent's funds are being used for their care and general upkeep, there is a lot of leeway in how things can be allocated.

The problem would be if funds were being diverted or planning was made that benefits the POA financially. That does not mean POA's can't make decisions that limits their own personal financial burden.

I've completely regretted getting POA for my husband's parents. It has cost us more both financially and mentally, than we ever could have imagined. On top of that, we get tons of grief from his sibling about how we handle things. His sibling is not in a position to help, though she acts as if she could. She wouldn't last 5 minutes. I'd be gleeful to turn it over to her if we could.

The POA over my mother is drunk with power. She controls Mom's every movement, who she can visit with, what you say to Mom, what is in the letters to Mom, and on and on.

Remember why the person who granted a POA to someone. They trusted that person to act on their behalf. You may not know all the reasons why a POA does something, but being a POA carries HUGE responsibilities and those should not be taken lightly. Instead of complaining, try to accept the decisions that person has made in making the (offending) POA. Make an effort to see the POA's side of things.

https://www.agingcare.com/articles/things-you-can-and-cant-do-with-poa-152673.htm
The two types of POA
First, It's important to distinguish between the two main types of POA: healthcare and financial.

A healthcare POA gives a trustworthy friend or family member (called the agent) the ability to make healthcare decisions about a person's (called the principal) care if they are unable to do so. A financial POA gives an agent the ability to make financial decisions for a person if they are unable to do so.

For comparison purposes, Fricker likens healthcare POAs to guardianships and financial POAs to conservatorships. The primary difference between these two types of appointments is that, with a POA, an individual can decide in advance who they want their agent to be if they become incapable of making decisions for themselves. Conservators and guardians are court-appointed individuals.

What can a POA do?

The powers of an agent aren't limitless. Here are a few examples of the kinds of decisions each type of POA can make.

In the name of the principal, a healthcare agent can decide:

What medical care they receive. (This is also dependent on the financial means of the person in need of care and the approval of the financial POA)
Where they live
What they eat
Who bathes them

In the name of the principal, a financial agent can:
Pay for health care and housing needs
File taxes
Pay bills
Make investment decisions

The Uniform POA Act
Some states have adopted the recently-created, Uniform Power Of Attorney Act (UPOAA). This law sets up some basic ground rules for POA contracts. It determines which powers are included in the document by default, and which need to be explicitly addressed.

Among other things, the UPOAA mandates that:
A POA is valid and durable as soon as it's signed. According to Fricker, this provision is important because it gives a principal the flexibility to decide how involved they want their agent to be while they are still in possession of their faculties. For example, a financial agent could handle the day-to-day tasks of paying bills and buying food, while the principal continues to make their own investment and major purchasing decisions.

I have had POA, both medical and durable, for both parents for over 4 years. We've had some issues but solved them. First thing, as others have said, POA can only be used for those aspects of life that the person is not capable of doing or deciding/processing. With my parents, it was bill paying to start with. Dad had dementia, and lost the ability. Mom had really never done it and had limited intelligience for financial stuff. As Dad got worse, Mom was not able to handle him....was not really even feeding him. They were on parallel lives in their home. NOW, I know it's cause Mom also had Alzheimer's. So Dad needed placement. Big fight and arguements from Mom. Angry at our RN daughter, who was there at time of placement, but doing what myself, as POA, was asking her to do, as I was out of town. Daughter was Mom's Medical POA, as the second choice after me. Mom demanded that daughter's name be removed and other granddaughter's name be in place. She was able to make such a decision, even though not really necessary nor the best one, but since I am also an RN and was first on the list, I agreed to the change. I consider and ask for Mom's opinions about decisions, WHEN she can handle that type of situation, but when her opinions are absolutely disasterous...as in, I don't need any caregivers in here with me, but we can see that she is not eating, is driving when she should not be, is not taking meds right that are intended to keep her breathing, is drinking too much and stumbling around the house in the evening alone.....well, then, she's not able to decide about caregivers. She gets overruled. Now that we know about Alzheimer's with a diagnosis, even though she doesn't believe she has it, I have assumed more control of decisions that are best. My Dad has died, no family left in her town, so the decision was made that we needed to sell the house and she needed to move into assisted living or another situation. She was given a timeframe to look at places with me, and to continue choices....assisted living somewhere near me, or move to WA state and live with RN daughter and family, who space and time and multiple family members to help her for the rest of her life. What she wants is to be in my home with me, and live with me as a siamese twin. Not possible, as I have a husband with Parkinson's and they have never gotten along aside from just being polite. He would never agree to her moving in because she knows no boundaries to give us our space, even when visiting. IF she feels like walking in our bedroom when the door is closed, her opinion is that I am her daughter and she has that right!! She sees herself as more important than he is and that my loyalty should be towards her over him because SHE is 'family' and he is just married to me! She has said this years ago, when she had her best mind working....so no way would she come into our home. She hates her assisted living, though she chose it, it's two miles away, where the others are 30 miles or more away, and I visit everyday, and she has a full apartment with her own furniture, rather than just a room and a bath etc. It's like the Hilton as compared to what else is available around here....but she doesn't want to be there, won't join in any activities and won't eat in the dining room with others. She's not 'like those old people' !! ( She is 90, walks with a walker, is on oxygen and has many many health problems, so in reality, she is worse than most of those other 'old people', but she refuses to see it!!) So, at any rate....with POA, you permit decisions that they can handle or are not dangerous for them, but you take over, generally more and more as time goes on. Yes....it's like having another child and a second job! It is by far, harder than anything I've done in my life and I am beyond stressed. I often during a year, have to use her money to fly my RN daughter in to be there for Mom, while I am bogged down with deadlines on applications...like for Medicaid or VA Aid and Attendance or other issues that I, with the assistance of the eldercare lawyer office, must deal with...while Mom is demanding my time to do nonsense stuff like soak her feet, or buy her special food or watch lawerence welk with her weekly so she's not alone. Multiple constant dr. appointments and constant medical decisions about what to do next, or do we stop dealing with this or that. She's had a fall, surgery, rehab all within 3 weeks of moving here to AL...with lots of medical stuff....just as I was applying for Aid and Attendance. It's more than one person can handle, especially with a home and a husband, and his own health issues. Our other daughter, lives just a few hours away, and she comes to help me organize, file, clean things up around here, keep my own business and home going....and now we have all the parents household stuffed packed into 3 storage rooms up here, after finally selling the home, and we must sort through all that stuff

My mother didn't ask, she give made me POA without my consent.

Anneom, you are so right about being a POA is like taking on a second job. I look around my home office and there are bins after bins of paper that needs to be sorted through and filed, plus dozens of 3-ring binds with financial information. Plus now I need to deal with selling my parent's house, after I finish up removing the contents which has been taking me over 3 months and I am still not through. In the mean time I have been ignoring my own house.

I am too old to be taking on this landslide of extra work. If I was 20 years younger I wouldn't have mind. I am a senior citizen myself with my own age related declines, I feel like I need to be in Assisted Living myself after this :P

I'd be more than happy to hand this job over to someone else.... oh wait, I can't, I am an only child. Just have to grin and bear it, if I live through it.

finalfree369, could you give us more information. I see from your profile you are taking care of your grandmother in her own home. Is grandmother the person you are referring in your above post? Who is grandmother's POA? Her son or daughter?

What specially is the POA doing that you do not like? Is grandmother moving to a higher level of care facility? Were there changes in her caregivers? Where you removed as a caregiver because of a move, thus the house needs to be sold?

Lucysmom, obviously not all POAs are not drunk with power. I wasn't. You aren't. But that does not eliminate the very real possibility for abuse. It happens.

My mother never appointed a POA. The nursing home asked us (her 4 daughters -- 3 sons were minimally involved) to designate the order in which we should be contacted. So even without an official POA someone gets the calls to decide about dietary supplements or to minor medical treatments, or to decide about hospice care.

I am an only child and POA for my dad. He is almost 96 and in AL memory care under Hospice care. Whatever I have done for him using the POA has been done for his benefit. I also ran every decision by hid elder care attorney to ensure that I was doing the right thing for him. Drunk with power? I think not. I am the person who gets the calls from AL that he fell and off to the hospital I go. I can't see how anyone could abuse the POA. Maybe there's some hard feelings about who was given the power?

Being POA does not give someone 100% control over every aspect of the principle's life. Generally it only involves handling financial and household respinsibilities. They can't ban someone else from coming in to provide physical caregiving. And it may not include being the one to make medical decisions.
Im lucky in that there are six of us siblings. #1 is developmentally disabled and also fighting cancer, #2, me, is physically disabled. #3 doesnt want anything to do with care but stirs up trouble whenever she can. #4 lives a six hour drive away but spends two weeks a year giving the rest of us a break. #5 has medical POA because she works in the medical field and was deemed the best informed. #6 moved in with mom and is POA over financial/household matters.
A few grandkids and mom's sister also pitch in.
What helps most is having regularly scheduled family meetings where concerns are discussed and caregiving schedule is arranged.
We came up with this plan with the guidance of a counselor from the hospital hospice program. Prior to that there were a lot of arguments and miscommunication as well as confusion over who had what duties.
I suggest talking to a local resource, from hospice, your parent's medical group, or local adult & aging program. They wont make decisions but can help mediate and guide your family into coming up with a workable plan for care.

I understand. It's really a matter of education. There can be several levels for a POA such as medical vs financial. Regardless - people tend to forget or not understand that POA also ends at death, therefore all of the next of kin unless you are in a state that allows the deceased to have previously assigned a guardian rather than a family member to oversee the funeral. What is frustrating is when there is an out of town POA who is out of touch with those who are involved on a daily basis.

From what I've seen on this site, those that want POA but not to be a caretaker are just interested in controlling and preserving their inheritance. We have POA and caregiving and there's not much of an estate involved so our only problem has been the lack of interest and concern by the other siblings once we took responsibility. Like assandache7, it started with just paying her bills before she lost everything, but has morphed into total responsibility for every aspect of her welfare. Be careful before signing POA.

Before you take on the role of caregiver for someone, have all their legal documents reviewed. Be sure you are made POA and the health care advocate before you take on the role. An out of town POA or Advocate can make your job hell. Some people want the power but not the responsibility of being a caretaker.

I am POA for my brother-in-law. My sister passed away, my BIL drank himself silly and chooses to do nothing to help himself. My sister died with thousands of dollars in credit card debt. She did everything for him, he did nothing for himself. Once we have waded through this mess, I am going to stand back and let him do it himself. He is really not in his right mind, a manic depressive. His family wants nothing to do with him (only his money). I have tried to do what I think is best for him, but he is very manipulative, threatening to commit suicide when things don't go his way. He is in very bad health, but I am sure he will outlive me even though he is 16 years older than me. I had no idea what kind of person he is. My sister enabled his drinking and childish behavior. He is narcisstic and dramatic. I've never dealt with a man like this. He is so life-draining. I had no idea what I was getting myself into. It's been 4 months and he is not doing anything to improve his situation.