Is there a way of protecting my assets if my husband has to go into a nursing home?

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It took a year with the help of Kathy Nealon attorney to get application approved and my work continues identifying beneficiary issues that can arise upon my deat
Getting coverage has been a life changing benefit

VERIFICATIONS NEEDED FOR MASSHEALTH /Medicaid APPLICATION
Birth Certificates for each of you;

Social Security Cards for each of you,

Copies of all health insurance cards (front and back) for each of you;

Premium bills for all ;

Three years of ALL bank or financial statements.

If any accounts have been closed in the past 3 years,

six months of statements leading up to the closing of the account
as well as the last statement showing a zero balance.

Checking account statements should include copies of processed checks. Please continue to provide current bank statements as they become available. Please note that the Caseworker at Medicaide may request statements going back further than two years;

All life insurance policy information including verification of current cash surrender value;

All information regarding any pre-paid burial contracts/plots;

Stock, annuity, bond or any other investment information.
provide current account statements as they become available;

Verification of income including burial contracts/plots;.

Vehicle information: title or registration for the two cars;

Two years of most recent tax returns.
ONLY COPIES ARE REQUIRED

It so makes me sick that even going to an elder care lawyer...if one spouse is diagnosed with AZ or dementia, the "solution" starts with a divorce. How mad/crazy is our system? Good luck in your quest.

It is called the Division of Assets.Do it as soon as possible.Good Luck....Maybe you can find it on the internet.

Uncle Dave, you need a trophy for your great helpful answers. Excellent!
And Brit38, you are so right! Yes, I felt the same way about applying for Medicaid for my husband. We were married for 57 years before we got the divorce to qualify him for Mediciad. We too have worked hard, got our IRA's and saved as best we could over the years. We've paid in for 60 years!
I don't feel the least bit guilty for using any loophole available to have him taken care of in a decent facility.
Bless you...I so agree!

Lolli47 do keep in mind that people like my husband and myself have worked hard since we were teenagers paying into the system and not called upon the government for help. We have saved our money and lived frugally. We are NOT trying to take money away from others. I know lots of people who live on welfare/Medicaid and never contribute a penny so while I appreciate your thoughts on the subject perhaps you can keep in mind that just because we are trying to protect our home/savings etc we are not trying to cheat anyone.

Nothing quite like asking for advice on a forum. You can get good advice and easily get misleading advice that costs you...Google and vet all advice.
--- from Google:
What Programs Are Available To Assist Elderly Adults in Arizona?

What Medicaid Waiver Programs are in Arizona? Arizona has one 1115 waiver, The Arizona Health Care Cost Containment System. Arizona does not have a 1915 Home and Community Based Services Waiver.

What state department manages the Medicaid waiver program for aging adults in Arizona? The Arizona Division of Aging And Adult Services (DAAS) supports at-risk elderly Arizonans to meet their basic needs and to live safely, with dignity and independence.

What programs assist older adults in Arizona? The Arizona Health Care Cost Containment System assists eligible senior citizens who need long term care. The Arizona Health Care Cost Containment System (AHCCCS) is a section 1115 Demonstration Waiver.

What is the best number to call to get started? To learn more about services for elderly persons, call your local area Agency on Aging (AAA).

website https://www.azdes.gov/daas/

Arizona Association of Area Agencies on Aging
www.azaging.org/

You are right Christine...
I've already said I got the divorce because I'm in a community state. That means even if I have a house in my name and we are married, half belongs to the other spouse. Of course the state would only recoup half of the property (after I die) and use that portion to pay for the care received by the spouse in Mediciad.
Also, half the money belonging to the couple would be counted toward care in the form of a spend down since Mediciad only allows $2,000 or less to qualify.
I'm still not sure if I've made the right decision because I'm in the process of the Mediciad application right now for my husband who just went into memory care two weeks ago.
I'll have to wait and see how it turns out. But with the divorce, I ended up with the house which has a mortgage that I am solely responsible for, my new car which is paid for and all other furniture, etc. My husband ended up with his IRA and it has now been spent on his first month of care in the facility plus their $1,500 entrance fee. He now has less than $2,000. He has not given anything away but he did pay down our mortgage as did I with our other IRA's and savings. I don't think they will consider that giving money away since it was his own mortgage at the time. However, I did end up with the house shortly thereafter with the divorce.
I'm saying I have no idea what to expect next week when I take in the paperwork to Mediciad. But I will certainly let everyone know.
Hope this helps even though I'm not recommending anyone to run out and get a divorce. Every situation is different and every state is different. So far though it has worked for me (us). It wasn't an easy decision because we were married 57 years and went ahead and celebrated our 58th. He didn't remember that we had divorced...so sad.
Best of luck to any of you struggling with this decision. I'll keep you all posted about my outcome.

No offense, guys. But you know what would really help this person? In addition to being told 10 times to consult a lawyer, which is good advise, I'll bet it would help her to hear what YOU chose to do to protect your assets when you were in her position!

READ READ READ.....PLAN and review Plans ....
Go to the Alzheimer's Organzation resources, READ READ and Read
Their ALZ.org is a sanity saver. Get a support network of professionals and ask questions. visit blogs read Mainzone Knowledge Networks etc

Britt38 and others, I'm sorry that the possibility that your family may not inherit the money from the sale of your house — or all of it — is so distressing to you. I'm sure you have wanted that and been comforted by the notion that you were leaving something to your family. And maybe you still will. First, I don't know what the rules are in your state when the house is in the sole name of the "well" spouse — it probably depends on when it was purchased and with whose money; a lawyer specializing in elder law can tell you for sure. Secondly, it may help you to know that IF Medicaid does take money from the sale of the they take ONLY that which Medicaid had provided in benefits. That is, if Medicaid paid out, for example, $100,000 in benefits to your husband and when you pass and your house is sold it is sold for $200,000, your heirs would still get $100,000. Medicaid doesn't "take the house"; Medicaid gets reimbursed for what it has already spent.

It may also help to understand the reason Medicaid has these sorts of rules. Another "rule" is that the recipient of Medicaid cannot give away their assets to family members (or anyone!) in order to become eligible for Medicaid. Even if that was not the motivation for the gifts, Medicaid will penalize recipients (by delaying the start of Medicaid payments) for such gifts given during the so-called "look back period" of five years prior to application for Medicaid.

The reason that Medicaid does this is that Medicaid is funded by taxes from me and you and everyone else that pays or has ever paid taxes in each state. Medicaid is intended as assistance to people who are genuinely impoverished — who CANNOT pay for their own care.

Most taxpayers (AND their elected representatives who establish the Medicaid funding in each state) are willing to provide this assistance to people in need — but they are equally NOT willing to pay to take care of Grandma so that Grandma can use her money to pay her grandson's tuition or buy her daughter a card. Similarly, they are not willing to ensure that Grandpa or their kids will get as much money from Grandma's estate as they would have if Grandma hadn't been on Medicaid for three years in a long term care facility.

One could argue that it would not be fair to the taxpayers of the state where my Mom is a patient if Medicaid did not recover the money that it had spent after my Dad died and no longer needed the house. The taxpayers only have agreed to take care of Mom's medical expenses because she could not; they haven't agreed that Mom's kids should pocket the money when their last remaining asset is sold.

Even if you don't agree with that argument, you might also keep in mind that every dollar that Medicaid recovers/recoups of what it spent is a dollar MORE that can be given to the next person (including you or one of us!) who needs it for care when they are helpless. Each recovery of the money that Medicaid provides when a person desperately needs that help will go back into the Medicaid fund to provide that same assistance to me or to others if and when we need it. And with our population living longer, more and more people are going to live longer than their own money lasts so, in my view, Medicaid is a program we really need to protect and save for the exclusive benefit of people who are in need of this medical care. I have two fervent prayers: one that I will never need the assistance of Medicaid and the second prayers is of thanksgiving that Medicaid will be there to pay for my long term medical care if I ever DO need it.

Brit38, I was told that my state is a community state (50/50) and while 1rarefine above is correct, after that is all said and done, Medicaid will definitely recoup the money spent for care while on Medicaid, if there is any to recoup. They do this, like I said, by putting a lien on the house and when your kids go to sell it, Mediciad will get the amount spent on care first.
This of course will be after you and your spouse are both deceased. And, another thing I was told was that in a community state, it doesn't matter if the house is just in the well spouses name. Half will still belong to the spouse in the AL.
Medicaid also says how much of the social security you can keep monthly and how much will be paid to the facility.
Good luck to you!

I am concerned about the comment regarding Medicaid taking the house when the well spouse dies! Will this happen if the deed is in the well spouse's name? I will not sleep tonight thinking of this as I planned on my family inheriting the money from the house when I die :(

1Rarefind- Medicaid law states that the community spouse can keep all of their own individual assets and 1/2 of the jointly held assets up to about 119,000$.
The primary home and one car are also exempt. The institutionalized spouse can also deem money over to the community spouse up to around $2800 a month.

No one should be homeless due to Medicaid for a spouse.

This response is specifically for M209M209 who asked how to go about finding an elder law attorney, as well as for tammyv. Another respondent provided the web address of the national organization that actually CERTIFIES elder law attorneys, which is where I would start, regardless of whether you live in rural or urban area. This organization is the National Elder Law Foundation. (nelf.org) There is an interactive map of the US that lets you call up all CELAs in your state, which is a place to start.

If there isn't one close by, it may be that if you call one of the ones listed (even if s/he is too far for you to drive) s/he may be willing to tell you someone they consider to have good skills/expertise in your area even if they don't have the Certified Elder Law Attorney credential. Or they may have a satellite office in your area!

Failing that, the web site also lists the qualifications the national organization has for persons who wish to be certified. In addition to the obvious ones of being licensed to practice in at least one state and being a member in good standing of the State Bar of each state where licensed PLUS successful completion of a full-day examination, the site lists some qualifications you could use as a guide to the kinds of questions you should ask ANY attorney who you are considering engaging to help you in this area:

1) How long have you practiced law? [Foundation requires applicants for certification to have practiced law during the last five years.]

2) In the last three years, how much time on average have you spent practicing elder law? [Foundation requires "substantial involvement in elder law matters, which having spent an average of at least 16 hours per week practicing elder law during those last three years.]

3) In the last three years, how many elder law matters have you handled? Tell me what they were. [The Foundation requires applicants for certification to have handled at least 60 elder law matters during the last three years, distributed among various subjects as defined by the Foundation. NOTE: I don't know what those subjects are; you might call the Foundation and see if they would tell you. However, my assumption is that these subjects should include representing people in guardianship/conservatorship proceedings, setting up a Qualified Income Trust for Medicaid recipients whose current monthly income is otherwise too high to be eligible, applying for VA pension and Aid and Attendance Bendfits, applying for/assisting in pulling together records for application for Medicaid, etc. ANY attorney can draw up "living wills" and "durable family powers of attorney" -- That is not remotely the kind of experience you must have for the challenges a spouse has in the circumstances you describe! Do NOT settle for only that, please! ]

4) In the last three years how many credits of Continuing Legal Education (CLE) have you earned IN ELDER LAW? [All lawyers have to earn a certain number of credit hours in CLE in order to keep their license active; the Foundation requires applicants for certification as an elder attorney to have participated in at least 45 of continuing legal education IN ELDER LAW during the preceding three-years.

5. Will you give me the names of three lawyers or judges that are familiar with your competence and qualifications in elder law. [The Foundation requires for this important "Peer Review/Professional References" that the applicant for certification submit the names of FIVE references from attorneys familiar with their competence and qualifications in elder law. These persons must themselves satisfy specified criteria. Judges or other lawyers may not be willing to "recommend" a particular attorney but they at least ought to be prepared to tell you if the attorney you are thinking about engaging is perceived in the local legal community to have a special interest and practice area in Elder Law. ]

Please don't rely on ANY of the advice given above EXCEPT the advice that you consult with an Elder Law Attorney! These issues are far too critical to you both financially and emotionally to rely on the opinions of even the well meaning lay people who are in this community of respondents. I hope you will come back to this site and tell us that you have found a well qualified elder law attorney on whom you think you CAN rely. And how you found him or her! Good luck and angels watch over you! Lolli

Actually, Mediciad will allow the spouse to remain in the home until their death. The house can even be sold and the money used to buy another one for,the well spouse. However, when the well spouse dies, Medicaid will,put a lien on the house and recover all the money spent for the other spouse. This isn't such a bad way to go if you don't mind the state getting their money back from the sale of your house.
But this wouldn't apply if you are divorced and the house belongs to the well spouse.

God help you if you SAVED money, invested and have a home when dementia or AZ hits your life.
Jackass facilities and systems that make us divorce just because we don't want a later career of pan-handling and living out of a box.
Makes me sick.

As mentioned here, definitely see an elder care attorney for help. I have heard of situations where people have transferred all of their important assets to their children or other rightful heirs. Putting assets into a trust may also be another option that people have used. When one person needs to enter a nursing home, the other surviving spouse who still home definitely needs money to live on, that's very true, especially when they own their own home and need to stay in that home. If all assets were liquidated that would leave the surviving person still at home broke and homeless to live in the street. That's why you need an elder care attorney to help you so this won't happen since nursing homes will stop at nothing to grab everything, not caring about who still lives at home.

I feel that those of us spouses fall between the cracks in the system. I have been encouraged by the Eldercare attorney to get a divorce to protect me from total financial loss, except that you can not have your house taken away, car and each state has a $$$ amount that you can keep, which to todays standards is nothing, especially when we are younger. I am 62 and my husband is 61. Talking with a financial planner so far for me has not been really helpful as they want you to invest with them, I have no one to help me decide what is right but the financial advisor who we invest with, and he has been giving some advise. I do not want to get a divorce as I will lose the health insurance as I am covered under his policy (which is a good one) and also probably lose his pension which I will need also. My husband has SSDI which is as of now is covering his home care when I am at work. That is all the elder care attorney has really recommended for me, a divorce.

Oh Carol, I do hope the best for you and yes pls keep us posted, what you are dealing with will help so many others.

I did end up getting a divorce last year and my hubby just went into memory care last week. I'm hoping this divorce doesn't cause a problem. I did get everything except his IRA which we have already spent down with the admittance fees and the first month!
I'm hoping they don't consider that we took my savings and his to pay down our mortgage last year before the divorce. If so, don't know what I'll do because I can't care for him at home any longer.
I should get the Medicaid paperwork in the mail today and see what they need from me.
I'll keep you all posted.

Brit38 contact your local agency on aging, they may have a list of attorneys that are less expensive.
Good Luck

same thing here, I am 16 years younger than my husband who has lewy body dementia. I hate the thought of him going into a nursing home but finding I am not the strong person I thought I was. Every day is abit of a nightmare and as he goes downhill I don't think I can do everything for him due to a bad back. Here in MD it costs around 9-10K for an Elder law lawyer to get things in motion. It terrifies me to get started on this and I keep praying it won't be necessary. He is 92yo but otherwise in perfect health.

The first thing I would do is quit-claim his portion of the house to you. Then when/if you outlive him, the house will be all yours. Same thing with bank and IRA accounts. You should roll-over your IRA to a ROTH IRA anyway so you can withdraw funds after 59 1/2 without taxes. I'm no attorney, but went to paralegal school and my husband was an attorney/pilot.

As an elder law attorney, I have helped many hundreds of clients qualify for Medicaid while protecting their assets. The goal is to preserve as much as legally possible, similar to good tax planning. While there are benefits to starting early (because of the five-year lookback rule others have discussed), it is never too late to take advantage of the laws that permit you to convert assets from countable to non-countable (i.e., exempt).

Because this is such a complex subject, I wrote a series of ebooks that cover the different areas of interest, as well as a print book that summarizes both the laws and the planning opportunities (including a section on how to find an elder law attorney in your area). good luck with your situation!

naela.org

You can use this database for search for an elder law attorney in your area. Together with your attorney you will be able to come up with a comprehensive plan to protect your assets and plan for not only your husband's care, but your own as well.

Assets that are jointly held are considered half yours so in our state the community spouse can keep up to 119,000$ Your assets are exempt from Medicaid. His individual assets would have to be spent on his care.
There is no divestment between married spouses so you could move jointly held money to an individual account or annuity. Contact a Medicaid Planning Attorney for advice about what is best in your situation.
Good Luck

Just a suggestion/question to all...especially for those in remote or rural areas it can be a challenge to locate an attorney for this purpose. And for anyone carrying the heavy burden of this issue...Are there recommendations for how to go about locating an attorney who can help? I used the internet for my search but any tips or shortcuts are always helpful. As always thank you to all the wonderful contributors here.

Yes a certified elder law attorney is recommended in this case. They will help you strucutre things so that you can keep as much as possible under medicaid rules. I wish you the best of luck as you travel a very hard journey. There are many here to support you