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My 84 y/o mom is frantic over me handling her finances because I have not tithed to her old church off of her social security. Her finances are very tricky as it is. We are Christians and tithe ourselves but are struggling with this. Any opinions?
I LOVE all these answers here. I continue to be amazed by how much people really care here.
As someone who was a pastor's wife for 20 years, I personally never expected tithes from those on fixed incomes of any sort, or those in the clutches of hardship. A free will offering is more than enough and in that way, a "mite" does cover it entirely. Even then, that mite can be whenever reasonable to individual in need.
In my view churches that prod and push those already in need to make "sacrifices unto the Lord", when it was difficult coming up with gas money to make it to service in the first place, are at fault. Would they rather have empty pews because the last 5 dollars was tithed and now no one can even come and hear the Word of God and are sitting at home hungry. Absurd.
God knows the heart and I am sure she has His grace through her faith. Someone mentioned having the minister comfort her. If there is one that truly will do that, and it helps great. Just be sure wherever she was tithing has the right views and will not burden her later. I divorced as a result of seeing abuse in such ways and more. The average minister should be very supportive and in fact seek to aid her. Sadly, too many feel entitled and forget to whom they were called to serve and aid.
One side thought. Do you get her mail? I ask because many church organizations send mailings to people to "contract" or "pledge" funds. If she ever signed one they will keep mailing her "notices", "reminder", or "encouragements" to trust and bless the household of faith, etc. Such notices would likely distress her and some churches know that pressure works. The same for text and email reminders that may chime on her devices. I put my foot down when auto-drafts entered the finance structure of religion. But its there and growing.
Thinking of you and grateful she has an advocate even in such spiritual matters. Heaven is not based on tithing. "Be of Good Cheer Mom"
Thank you isn’t enough. My mom is deeply distressed over this. I believe she has some deep insecurity about her salvation. Some denominations are more abusive in this way than others. .
Been there, had that argument. As a Christian who attends church every time the doors are open (not bragging, I just see how this can be important to her) in my opinion she is a poor saint in need herself. Secondly, a poor widow once gave a “mite” and that small amount was considered great. If nothing else, give a $1.00 a week to the church (her “mite”) and tell her that offerings being made. God knows what she wants to do & what she is able to do.
In my opinion only, tithing is a portion given to God Most High, ultimately. He initiated that to avoid greed or thinking that it is we who provide for ourselves. It is for our soul's benefit really, and we have the freedom of choice to where to give to in helping others.
God sees; He knows. His compassion for widows in their distress is HUGE. He is not going to then add any more weight upon her by expecting a tithe from her! He is a God of great compassion and mercy to those such as your mom. I know that she might not comprehend all of that, but there must be a thought in her thinking of 'appeasing the wrath of an angry God' if she doesn't tithe something. So sad, as He is not angry. He does have wrath against unrighteousness ( wrath is a better word.... it 'flares His nostrils' Hebraically: as unrighteousness should flare our's too. )
Anyway back to your question... it is not unrighteous to say to mom, "God knows your desire is to please Him with tithing.... it is OK." and leave it at that. I would repeat that phrase to her whenever the subject comes up. If she insists, then indeed - the widow's mite ( smallest coin back then ) is greater in God's sight than any huge amount others may give out of their abundance. It need NOT be '10%' for her. That would not be justice for her either, in God's sight.
May you receive His wisdom on what is pleasing in His sight... alone.
the church should be giving to her instead of the other way around. With "Christians" like those money grabbers, who needs religion. Disgusting. In my opinion it's taking advantage of the elderly and disabled.
This is an interesting subject you've brought up, AT1234. My very devout father has always tithed, but stopped after his spinal cord injury. He still makes regular modest gifts to his church, which I help with as his POA.
I haven't talked to him about it, but I would imagine he feels as I do, that tithing is just not appropriate or expected by God for a completely dependent person such as my dad (and your mom). Persons who are weak and vulnerable and needing all of their income or savings for their care, don't need to worry about tithing. I hope there is some way you can reassure your mom about this.
I’ve tried to reassure her, and yes I am her POA. There have been some great suggestions here but after her tears and great distress I’ve written the last check to this business. To me, that’s what it is because a church would not do what they’ve done to her.
Perhaps it would help your mother to remind her that tithing was originally to help the Christian Church to support those in need of help, as well as to provide an income for the leaders. Social support was an important part of the early Church's mandate. Your mother is now in the situation where the early Christian Church would be providing her with help, not demanding it from her. Your mother can request her beneficiaries to provide funds to the Church when her estate is settled, but accept that it is better not to complicate a complex tax/ medicaid/ care situation at this point. And you can provide her with that assurance, if you wish. Best wishes.
I would not tithe! I don't believe in that. The church has plenty of money plus they are a 501C corp and pay no taxes. If you're struggling, why give the money to someone else. Doesn't hold water.
1) Increase your tithe, tell Mom you are tithing for her because you need the tax deduction and she doesn't.
2) Render to Caesar what is Caesar's....it is gov't funds, not meant to give away, but meant for basic needs. Tithe by giving of oneself, one's heart to the Lord's work. Isn't there a retirement of tithing after age 90?
3) The christian church has a plan to support widows and orphans. It does not include taking their money from them...common sense. The Lord is merciful.
Tithing was something bound upon the Jews of the Old Testament and before Christ's resurrection. Christians are asked to set something aside to give as they have prospered (I Corinthians 16:2), with no specific percentage or value prescribed.
As a Christian, I find these comments curious. Yes, the tithe (10%) was instituted in the OT, along with other restrictions, like dietary laws that were kinda rescinded in the NT. However, it's not mentioned one way or the other in the NT; and the tithe of one's income--not of whatever one has left after other expenses--is still the rule in most Christian communities, whether observed or not.
Jesus taught us to pay our taxes--"render to Ceaser that which is Ceaser's"--and after that, ALL we have belongs to God. Not 10%, but 100%. Not just money, but life itself. We are merely put in charge of properly managing God's resources that have been entrusted to us, preferably in a way that glorifies God.
In this lady's case, thoughtful determination of how her meager income should be used to glorify God might mean using it all for her necessary personal care.
IMO, a church that doesn't even provide her with spiritual support during this time is probably not where her money will be best used to glorify God anyway.
In my own experience, I saw to it that my loved ones' regular church donations were presented to the pastor when she visited. When she visited after 6 weeks, I wrote a check for 6x their customary weekly amount, etc. No visits, no $. I also saw to it that 10% of their final estate went to their church, as was their desire. However, my LO could well afford to do this without financial strain or reliance on others for financial support.
Furthermore, tithing is not a requirement to avoid hellfire. It's meant to be a minimum and grateful response to a loving Provider.
Is there a chance that she will need to apply for Medicaid funding for AL or NH in the next 5 years? You might need to consult an attorney, but my assumption is that titheing, like all charitable donations, would be looked upon as gifting and thus subject to penalty.
How would you feel about telling mom a "therapeutic fib" that the tithes have been "taken care of"?
She is private pay now, but we’ve been down this road before with husbands parents and the private pay won’t last long. Her desire is never to live with us, a sentiment I’ve come to agree with. Our options are limited and Medicaid is not far off especially if we can’t qualify for LTHC.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
As someone who was a pastor's wife for 20 years, I personally never expected tithes from those on fixed incomes of any sort, or those in the clutches of hardship. A free will offering is more than enough and in that way, a "mite" does cover it entirely. Even then, that mite can be whenever reasonable to individual in need.
In my view churches that prod and push those already in need to make "sacrifices unto the Lord", when it was difficult coming up with gas money to make it to service in the first place, are at fault. Would they rather have empty pews because the last 5 dollars was tithed and now no one can even come and hear the Word of God and are sitting at home hungry. Absurd.
God knows the heart and I am sure she has His grace through her faith. Someone mentioned having the minister comfort her. If there is one that truly will do that, and it helps great. Just be sure wherever she was tithing has the right views and will not burden her later. I divorced as a result of seeing abuse in such ways and more. The average minister should be very supportive and in fact seek to aid her. Sadly, too many feel entitled and forget to whom they were called to serve and aid.
One side thought. Do you get her mail? I ask because many church organizations send mailings to people to "contract" or "pledge" funds. If she ever signed one they will keep mailing her "notices", "reminder", or "encouragements" to trust and bless the household of faith, etc. Such notices would likely distress her and some churches know that pressure works. The same for text and email reminders that may chime on her devices. I put my foot down when auto-drafts entered the finance structure of religion. But its there and growing.
Thinking of you and grateful she has an advocate even in such spiritual matters. Heaven is not based on tithing. "Be of Good Cheer Mom"
God sees; He knows. His compassion for widows in their distress is HUGE. He is not going to then add any more weight upon her by expecting a tithe from her! He is a God of great compassion and mercy to those such as your mom.
I know that she might not comprehend all of that, but there must be a thought in her thinking of 'appeasing the wrath of an angry God' if she doesn't tithe something. So sad, as He is not angry. He does have wrath against unrighteousness ( wrath is a better word.... it 'flares His nostrils' Hebraically: as unrighteousness should flare our's too. )
Anyway back to your question... it is not unrighteous to say to mom, "God knows your desire is to please Him with tithing.... it is OK." and leave it at that. I would repeat that phrase to her whenever the subject comes up.
If she insists, then indeed - the widow's mite ( smallest coin back then ) is greater in God's sight than any huge amount others may give out of their abundance. It need NOT be '10%' for her. That would not be justice for her either, in God's sight.
May you receive His wisdom on what is pleasing in His sight... alone.
I haven't talked to him about it, but I would imagine he feels as I do, that tithing is just not appropriate or expected by God for a completely dependent person such as my dad (and your mom). Persons who are weak and vulnerable and needing all of their income or savings for their care, don't need to worry about tithing. I hope there is some way you can reassure your mom about this.
Thank you, for you response.
2) Render to Caesar what is Caesar's....it is gov't funds, not meant to give away, but meant for basic needs. Tithe by giving of oneself, one's heart to the Lord's work. Isn't there a retirement of tithing after age 90?
3) The christian church has a plan to support widows and orphans. It does not include taking their money from them...common sense. The Lord is merciful.
4) Tell Mom to be gracious and receive.
Yes, the tithe (10%) was instituted in the OT, along with other restrictions, like dietary laws that were kinda rescinded in the NT. However, it's not mentioned one way or the other in the NT; and the tithe of one's income--not of whatever one has left after other expenses--is still the rule in most Christian communities, whether observed or not.
Jesus taught us to pay our taxes--"render to Ceaser that which is Ceaser's"--and after that, ALL we have belongs to God. Not 10%, but 100%. Not just money, but life itself. We are merely put in charge of properly managing God's resources that have been entrusted to us, preferably in a way that glorifies God.
In this lady's case, thoughtful determination of how her meager income should be used to glorify God might mean using it all for her necessary personal care.
IMO, a church that doesn't even provide her with spiritual support during this time is probably not where her money will be best used to glorify God anyway.
In my own experience, I saw to it that my loved ones' regular church donations were presented to the pastor when she visited. When she visited after 6 weeks, I wrote a check for 6x their customary weekly amount, etc. No visits, no $. I also saw to it that 10% of their final estate went to their church, as was their desire.
However, my LO could well afford to do this without financial strain or reliance on others for financial support.
Furthermore, tithing is not a requirement to avoid hellfire. It's meant to be a minimum and grateful response to a loving Provider.
Is there a chance that she will need to apply for Medicaid funding for AL or NH in the next 5 years? You might need to consult an attorney, but my assumption is that titheing, like all charitable donations, would be looked upon as gifting and thus subject to penalty.
How would you feel about telling mom a "therapeutic fib" that the tithes have been "taken care of"?