My question is about tithing. Dementia mom with very limited funds requires 24/7 AL care. She wants to make sure her tithe is paid from SS.

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My question is about tithing. Dementia mom with very limited funds requires 24/7 AL care. She wants to make sure her tithe is paid from SS.

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My 84 y/o mom is frantic over me handling her finances because I have not tithed to her old church off of her social security. Her finances are very tricky as it is. We are Christians and tithe ourselves but are struggling with this. Any opinions?

Assisted Living Financial Planning Paying for Care

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Is mom private pay, or is she on Medicaid?

Is there a chance that she will need to apply for Medicaid funding for AL or NH in the next 5 years? You might need to consult an attorney, but my assumption is that titheing, like all charitable donations, would be looked upon as gifting and thus subject to penalty.

How would you feel about telling mom a "therapeutic fib" that the tithes have been "taken care of"?

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She is private pay now, but we’ve been down this road before with husbands parents and the private pay won’t last long. Her desire is never to live with us, a sentiment I’ve come to agree with. Our options are limited and Medicaid is not far off especially if we can’t qualify for LTHC.

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I am sure no church or other religious organization would "require" 10% (tithe by definition) if a person or family is struggling financially. And if most of Mom's Social Security is going to pay for her AL what is left is actually her "income" if she wishes to tithe take the % from what is left.
But if application for Medicaid has to be started the donation will be looked at as a gift and may impact the application. Probably to a lesser degree if the tithe is done after the AL payment is deducted.
I feel the same for you if you are struggling financially a 10% tithe might be excessive. Find other ways to "give". Donate time either to your church or volunteer. Often time is more needed than money. I volunteer at a Hospice and Medicaid has regulations that a certain % of volunteer hours are required to keep status with medicare. Donate clothing or furniture to a shelter, donate to a food pantry, volunteer at the food pantry. PADS programs need soaps, shampoo, homeless shelters need the same. There are lots of ways to help that do not cost money.

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There are some pretty aggressive churches out there. You would be surprised!

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Don't think Medicaid will frown on tithing if not excessive, like donating 5k. I don't consider giving to a Church is charity. You are helping to pay bills and ministers salary. I had a friend tell me after she retired and was a widow that she paid her bills first then tithed. When Mom was in the AL I think I still tithed from Moms SS. Hers wasn't 200 a month and Medicaid didn't question it. Now once she is on Medicaid, her SS will go towards her care, so no more tithing. I understand stretching her money. Send what she can even if its $5.

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1) Increase your tithe, tell Mom you are tithing for her because you need the tax deduction and she doesn't.

2) Render to Caesar what is Caesar's....it is gov't funds, not meant to give away, but meant for basic needs. Tithe by giving of oneself, one's heart to the Lord's work. Isn't there a retirement of tithing after age 90?

3) The christian church has a plan to support widows and orphans. It does not include taking their money from them...common sense. The Lord is merciful.

4) Tell Mom to be gracious and receive.

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Tithing was something bound upon the Jews of the Old Testament and before Christ's resurrection. Christians are asked to set something aside to give as they have prospered (I Corinthians 16:2), with no specific percentage or value prescribed.

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Perhaps it would help your mother to remind her that tithing was originally to help the Christian Church to support those in need of help, as well as to provide an income for the leaders. Social support was an important part of the early Church's mandate. Your mother is now in the situation where the early Christian Church would be providing her with help, not demanding it from her. Your mother can request her beneficiaries to provide funds to the Church when her estate is settled, but accept that it is better not to complicate a complex tax/ medicaid/ care situation at this point. And you can provide her with that assurance, if you wish. Best wishes.

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Been there, had that argument. As a Christian who attends church every time the doors are open (not bragging, I just see how this can be important to her) in my opinion she is a poor saint in need herself. Secondly, a poor widow once gave a “mite” and that small amount was considered great. If nothing else, give a $1.00 a week to the church (her “mite”) and tell her that offerings being made. God knows what she wants to do & what she is able to do.

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Medicaid usually allows the patient to keep a small amount - $50 to $100 a month. Maybe your mother can be convinced to tithe from that amount. Is there a religious leader that can speak with her and assure her that $5 or $10 is the proper amount to give now?

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Can't tithe from a PNA acct. Its for the residents personal needs only.

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In my opinion only, tithing is a portion given to God Most High, ultimately. He initiated that to avoid greed or thinking that it is we who provide for ourselves. It is for our soul's benefit really, and we have the freedom of choice to where to give to in helping others.

God sees; He knows. His compassion for widows in their distress is HUGE. He is not going to then add any more weight upon her by expecting a tithe from her! He is a God of great compassion and mercy to those such as your mom.
I know that she might not comprehend all of that, but there must be a thought in her thinking of 'appeasing the wrath of an angry God' if she doesn't tithe something. So sad, as He is not angry. He does have wrath against unrighteousness ( wrath is a better word.... it 'flares His nostrils' Hebraically: as unrighteousness should flare our's too. )

Anyway back to your question... it is not unrighteous to say to mom, "God knows your desire is to please Him with tithing.... it is OK." and leave it at that. I would repeat that phrase to her whenever the subject comes up.
If she insists, then indeed - the widow's mite ( smallest coin back then ) is greater in God's sight than any huge amount others may give out of their abundance. It need NOT be '10%' for her. That would not be justice for her either, in God's sight.

May you receive His wisdom on what is pleasing in His sight... alone.

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Ask her minister to visit her (or at least write to her) and explain that the church cannot accept donations from people whose income is below a certain threshold. And if they don't already have some policy such as this in place it's time they did: there have been suicides among oppressed lifelong donors to charities, and where suicides have a suspected cause litigation is just around the corner.

Perhaps your mother can contribute in some other way - addressing envelopes, folding leaflets, sorting photographs for newsletters, whatever she can do from the ALF. It all helps.

As a last resort, separate out the tithe (keeping it safe) and see how she does not spending it for, say, three months. If she really can stretch her budget that far without it, and she is of sound mind, then you will need to reconsider your decision because you won't be able to justify overruling her.

What does Medicaid say about tithes, does anyone know? Are they covered by gifting rules?

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Her care is almost 5600/mth her income is 3000/mth. We are trying to get a LTHC Ins to qualify and that will help but first 6 months is going to wipe out savings. Her drs have said no more living alone. No more independent medication management. She wants to go home against medical advice.

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I LOVE all these answers here. I continue to be amazed by how much people really care here.

As someone who was a pastor's wife for 20 years, I personally never expected tithes from those on fixed incomes of any sort, or those in the clutches of hardship. A free will offering is more than enough and in that way, a "mite" does cover it entirely. Even then, that mite can be whenever reasonable to individual in need.

In my view churches that prod and push those already in need to make "sacrifices unto the Lord", when it was difficult coming up with gas money to make it to service in the first place, are at fault. Would they rather have empty pews because the last 5 dollars was tithed and now no one can even come and hear the Word of God and are sitting at home hungry. Absurd.

God knows the heart and I am sure she has His grace through her faith. Someone mentioned having the minister comfort her. If there is one that truly will do that, and it helps great. Just be sure wherever she was tithing has the right views and will not burden her later. I divorced as a result of seeing abuse in such ways and more. The average minister should be very supportive and in fact seek to aid her. Sadly, too many feel entitled and forget to whom they were called to serve and aid.

One side thought. Do you get her mail? I ask because many church organizations send mailings to people to "contract" or "pledge" funds. If she ever signed one they will keep mailing her "notices", "reminder", or "encouragements" to trust and bless the household of faith, etc. Such notices would likely distress her and some churches know that pressure works. The same for text and email reminders that may chime on her devices. I put my foot down when auto-drafts entered the finance structure of religion. But its there and growing.

Thinking of you and grateful she has an advocate even in such spiritual matters. Heaven is not based on tithing. "Be of Good Cheer Mom"

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Thank you isn’t enough. My mom is deeply distressed over this. I believe she has some deep insecurity about her salvation. Some denominations are more abusive in this way than others. .

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This is an interesting subject you've brought up, AT1234. My very devout father has always tithed, but stopped after his spinal cord injury. He still makes regular modest gifts to his church, which I help with as his POA.

I haven't talked to him about it, but I would imagine he feels as I do, that tithing is just not appropriate or expected by God for a completely dependent person such as my dad (and your mom). Persons who are weak and vulnerable and needing all of their income or savings for their care, don't need to worry about tithing. I hope there is some way you can reassure your mom about this.

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I’ve tried to reassure her, and yes I am her POA. There have been some great suggestions here but after her tears and great distress I’ve written the last check to this business. To me, that’s what it is because a church would not do what they’ve done to her.

Thank you, for you response.

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the church should be giving to her instead of the other way around. With "Christians" like those money grabbers, who needs religion. Disgusting. In my opinion it's taking advantage of the elderly and disabled.

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cetude, I said the exact thing.

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I wrote out mom's tithe check as long as she was attending church. Prior to me becoming POA, she was writing exorbitant amounts to the church, not realizing she had already given. After she went into AL, no more tithes were given as the church services were part of the facility.

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My mother hasn’t attended church in a year. More importantly, only one paid secretary has even visited.
It’s my job to protect her assets and I’ve made the decision that will be her last tithe check at least in this amount. My mother has not attended here long, and they have caused undo stress and pressure on her and others on fixed incomes. We know this from former members that have reached out to warn us.

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You mention "dementia mom", so I am not sure how much you are able to reason with someone in this particular instance. Especially since religious issues are very often based on emotion rather than reason. I agree that the requirement of the tithe was part of the Mosaic law, in order to take care of the priesthood - a completely different arrangement than the Christian church. Also Jas. 2:27: says "Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress". (NIV) Your mother is now in that position, rather than in a position to give financially. Does she have a false pride about accepting help and need to see that her position has changed from the past?

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Yes, she may.
Her mind can not accept her age, her health all of that is not uncommon. She is in early dementia so her grasp on past vs future finances is sketchy. It’s denial, but that doesn’t make it easier to help with. I did what she asked. It is her belief and her emotional well being is more important to me at this point. God knows her heart and will bless her regardless.

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Render unto Caesar that wgmhich is Caesar's indeed, but the rest of that Scripture says to render unto God that which is God's. And the tithe, or one-tenth, of our *increase* is clearly God's. It matters not if we are in the Old or New Testament, all that means is, do we live before or after the Cross? In fact it really means, are we trying to save ourselves by our works, or do we accept salvation by Christ through faith?
All of which is kinda beside the point in your mother's case. She wants to return a faithful tithe to the Lord and needs your help doing it. Doing so is a contract of obedience between her and the Lord, and will give her peace.
In my opinion, the loving thing for you to do is assure her that you are taking care of it, and do so. Just make sure you are tithing on her *increase,* not on her *income.*
For example, if she is making $23 a month more this year than last year, pay tithe on the $23. Ten per cent of $23, of course, would be $2.30 a month. That's an honest tithe and won't break the bank.
Read Malachi 3:8-11. God promises great blessings to those who tithe. All that we have comes from His loving hand. Tithing acknowledges His ownership and puts us in partnership with Him. Your mother may feel that she is "robbing God" if she does not return tithe. I hope you can find a way to ease her path. God bless you both as you seek wisdom and peace in this matter.

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I'm curious, where did you come up with increase vs income? Seriously, I'd like to know?

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We should give not a compulsion, but what we are willing/capable to give, with peace within. I’m a Christian too, and there was a point in my life when I probably could’ve given more, but I only started giving $2.50 a week to the Lord, because that’s what I felt like I could give without reservation. By the end of that giving situation in my life I was able to give hundreds and still the Lord provided for my needs-comfortably. So, I say give what you can give willingly without reservation and let God begin to grow that money if that’s what he wants. Remember you’re judging yourself if you think you have to give a bunch of money. The Lord knows what’s going on in your life you don’t have to explain this to anyone else this is between you and the Lord so talk to the Lord about it and then have peace in your heart at whatever dollar amount is decided.

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Very well spoken!!

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For people like your Mom who are diligent with tithing, it is a core part of their mental and emotional and spiritual foundation. And it is aligned with the laws of the universe the way God set it up. Give and you shall receive. Plant and you will reap a harvest. My Mom was very consistent with this, as yours is. I would recommend continuing to tithe and to give her the comfort of knowing you are honoring her wishes with that. It will be more important to her overall well-being than any of the other things that small amount of money could be spent on. I often wish I had spent more effort on nurturing Mom’s spirit and less on trying to keep an aging body going. Knowing her tithe is working is her way of continuing to have a positive impact in a world that has stolen most of the other remnants of the power she once had as a younger person. Just my thoughts and experience. May they help you make the tough decisions such as this one.

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The original question asked “she wants to make sure her tithe is paid from Social Security”. When she has exhausted her funds and qualifies for Medicaid she will receive a portion of her social security even if by then she is in a nursing home. Yes, these funds are for her personal use, but she can use them for whatever personal use she wants. She or you can bring her to the business office and she can withdraw her “tithe”, which could be as little as a few dollars and hand it to you. It is not their business what she does with this money. They don’t keep an accounting of each expenditure. Of course, I wouldn’t go in there saying, “OK, Mom, let’s get your tithe!”.

That aside, let me address your mother’s anguish, which is not to be taken lightly, on this matter. It sounds as if your mother has been spiritually abused by a pastor or deacons masquerading as Christians. Yes, even the devil can quote scripture.

In John 10:28, Jesus assured his followers, “I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand”. It grieves me to hear of your mother’s distress over the issue of tithing and her salvation. Do you know for a fact that her pastor is doing this? Could you ask your pastor to talk to her? Our church has an assistant pastor who deals mostly with senior citizens. Perhaps a pastor like this, experienced with end of life issues, may be able to address your mother’s fears. If your church doesn’t have one, you could probably ask the social worker at the facility for the name of one of the visiting pastors. My parents’ nursing facility has several that I know I could call on if needed for their counseling.

You have received some good suggestions already. If no matter what, your mother insists on giving a tithe, she can still do it from her little SS allowance. I hope she can be convinced that doing so or not has no connection to her salvation. In any case, it may help to ease her mind. Personally, I would be very loathe to give this “widow’s mite” to any church that has been hounding her for money. Perhaps one of the visiting pastors could advise you. I know most of them are retired and receive no compensation, and would probably not accept any, but might have ideas about where your mother’s money gifts would be better used. I am moved to pray for you and your mother. I know that your mother’s ability to reason is impaired, but God is able to pierce with light the darkest night and the deepest confusion. I pray for blessed assurance for her.

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If she has tithed her whole life then the money she is receiving from SSI has likely already been tithed. When we tithe, we give 10% of our gross income before taxes or anything come out, so the Social Security retirement and other taxes that come out of our paycheck have already had a tithe paid on them. Any return of those moneys would have already been tithed. See?

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We had the same thought at the same time, I see. You explained it much better than I though and I got long winded...a bad habit of mine! Great explanation Faeriefiles!

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If you can manage it, tithe from your own money. Tell your Mom you did make sure the church received its tithe.... but don't tell her you did so from your own money. This way she'll be happy and you'll know you did what you could for her.

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Lot's of good approaches here and while I would start with some of the justifications for your mom no longer needing or being expected to tithe (her income is no longer "earned" and technically she has already tithed on that income back when someone was working and tithing on that earned income before what she is living on now was put away. OK perhaps overly simplified but...or any of the other points made below about the difference in her situation now, I can imagine that she may not be able to retrain her understanding and simple life pattern on tithing. You know your mom best and how and when to approach some of these thought or not. We all have probably experienced the inability of or elder LO's to change a life pattern and this may be like that for your mom, in which case I would take the difference in amount to tithe on approach and find a way to tithe a little something simply for her piece of mind, it doesn't sound like she is on Medicaid just yet but maybe even using their formula of $50-$100 a month being "her's" to spend so that's what she can and should be tithing, it is her spending money and I don't think it's against Medicare rules if or when she is on Medicare so things wouldn't change either. I sure hope a clergy member (preferably from the church she has supported all these years) from somewhere, maybe even your church or the NH, wherever her services will be held when she passes, some clergy member should be visiting and supporting her given how devout she has been all her life, would be happy to help by talking to her about it, releasing her of the expectation to tithe and explain that she should now let the younger parishioners support her the way she has those that came ahead of her all these years. I'm not presenting that well but if it's hard to find a member of the clergy, from the denomination she belongs too, who is willing and able to help you and your mom through this something is very wrong.

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It’s important to her- so do it. Be obedient and leave the consequences to God.

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Just went through the same thing with my parents. Our Elder-Attorney (in Connecticut) told them they can continue as long as the tithing has been customary and consistent with their past giving, it won't be a problem when they go to apply for Title IXX (Medicaid). I made sure that made it into our notes for later reference just in case ... That's what he said!

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Follow her wishes and continue to tithe. Sometimes in our worries, God is last on our minds but when we include Him, He will take care of us.

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I'm in the same place as AT1234,, there will be no tithing above $1.00., She cannot live on SS. and I am caring for her for free. She can't live without food, and shelter.,, The church is not taking care of her (us). I hope when it's your turn, you have an easier time of it.

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I was given the same information as KBEllison. My late mother had always given to her church and wanted to continue. I was advised to keep the donations at about the same percentage of her income and keep records. If Medicaid was needed later, there would not be a penalty. I was told that this was also the case for cash birthday gifts for children, grandchildren and great grandchildren as long as they could be shown to be a long-standing practice and the amounts were not increased. My mother did not outlive her assets, so I never had to put this to the test, but it was comforting to know that I wouldn’t have to come up with thousands of dollars to make up for five years of church donations if Medicaid had been needed.

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I would not tithe! I don't believe in that. The church has plenty of money plus they are a 501C corp and pay no taxes. If you're struggling, why give the money to someone else. Doesn't hold water.

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10% of nothing = nothing - it is more important to pay her bills - maybe send $1.00 a month for her tithing

Tithing by a church to someone who hasn't enough money to pay for the essentials is WRONG - will someone come & talk to her about it? - but stay with them so they don't walk away with a big cheque - I'd make them swear to help or don't arrange it

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Easiest answer........give what is affordable. The Old Testament is 1 thing, but the New Testament does not (as I remember) state that 1 must give 10%. The Old Testament, yes. We live in current days and God understands that one can only give that of which they are able. If we follow the teachings of the Old Testament, there would not be divorce, you'd have sister wives, wait hand/foot on your husband as well as being told what to do every minute of your life. He could kick you out as an accepted form of divorce, beat you if he's upset. You would need a large fire pit to burn a sacrifice at the Sabbath. How about that Burka outfit?!
If you only have $2 and need $1.50 to care for yourself/family, God will accept the .50 as your sacrifice.

God also allows you to stretch the truth now with Mom.

Don't let Mom place that guilt on you. He knows what you NEED to take care of your Mom.

Being a Christian means you BELIEVE. You're not TIED by the constraints of someone standing at a pulpit TELLING YOU what you must do or can't do.

If it were not for people like Martin Luther, Lutherns would not exist. Henry VIII booted the Pope out and the Church of England was born.

If it weren't for Jesus' resurrection and the Apostles in the upper room, I would not have been raised Pentecostal.

Were it not for God having a conversation with Abraham, my husband wouldn't be Jewish.

God, the Son, Holy Ghost (if you believe in 3 separate entities) really just expect BELIEF, LOVE and what you can do for your beliefs.

Your true belief is between you and God. My step-father is very religious and believes that one must commune with others to have a true conversation with God.
I asked him, if 1 cannot even though he believes, have a conversation with God should he be by himself, how was Jesus able to talk with God AND Devil in the desert? What about people who cannot get to church because they're all alone? How many times did you pray when you had a pop quiz in school? How can people be expected to tithe when they have nothing to even be able to care for themselves?
FAITH is believing in something one cannot see. I think that comes from ACTS. It doesn't say FAITH is something you buy by tithing.

GOD UNDERSTANDS and knows what is in your heart and your Mother's. He expects you to take care of your Mother.

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Amen! Its so funny how tithing is the only thing that was brought to churches from the old testament. We were raised as christians and were taught tithing comes from your heart! Not your pocket book. As my mother use to say God doesnt need money and he always provides. So sad because my MIL gives hundreds a month to charity and my husband and I are paying the doctor bills. We just tell her now that we sent the checks. God knows are hearts and this is not a requirement to get to heaven. Done with my ranting!

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FairieFiles described exactly how we handle tithe and offering with my 95-year old father. He was ordained a minister 75 years ago and has tithed every cent and given many other offerings over and above his tithe. He even insisted that the significant amount of money my mother's sister bequeathed to her be tithed. Shortly after Mom died in 2011, my brother (DPOA) and I were able to help him see that all his income from SocSec & retirement had already been tithed. Now I write him a $50 monthly check for his offering. He is happy with that. Once a year or so, he will need to hear the rationale again, and once it's explained, he's fine again. Any monetary gifts he receives from friends or family can be tithed if he wishes.

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FairieFiles described exactly how we handle tithe and offering with my 95-year old father. He was ordained a minister 75 years ago and has tithed every cent and given many other offerings over and above his tithe. He even insisted that the significant amount of money my mother's sister bequeathed to her be tithed. Shortly after Mom died in 2011, my brother (DPOA) and I were able to help him see that all his income from SocSec & retirement had already been tithed. Now I write him a $50 monthly check for his offering. He is happy with that. Once a year or so, he will need to hear the rationale again, and once it's explained, he's fine again. Any monetary gifts he receives from friends or family can be tithed if he wishes.

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My question is about tithing. Dementia mom with very limited funds requires 24/7 AL care. She wants to make sure her tithe is paid from SS.

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