Resolving an argument with Mom, what should I do?

Your mother has far too much free rent in your head. It’s unhealthy to let her, or anyone, make you this upset. Don’t wait or worry about either apologizing, that’s between the two of them. Know that your mother doesn’t have to accept help, she’s free to make decisions for herself, even the ones you don’t agree with or think are bad for her. Guard your own health and marriage and back off from mom. An event will happen at some point to force change for her, until then let her live her way

Your Mom has Dementia. As such she no longer has the ability to reason. She has short term memory so probably does not remember what was said from one day to the next, to one minute to the next. They become stubborn and have no enpathy and can be self centered. Think of her as a small child. This will only get worse. Her care will be more and more. Its OK if you can't care for her, you may need to place her for your own sanity and marriage.

What exactly was the argument about? Without knowing, it's hard to know how to guide you in resolving it.

On your profile you write that your 84 yo mother has Alzheimer's/dementia and "BP/NP" which I assume is bipolar/narcissistic personality?

I agree that you allow your mother to take up way too much space in your head. You have your own problems. Good on your husband for standing up for you, his wife. You are fortunate that your husband is invested in your wellbeing.

If you can give more background on what happened, and what your mother's expectations are of you, you'll get more answers.

Here is what you should do- you should read a few letters here every day. As you do you will find that many other loving care givers have problems like yours.

”She will not listen to reason”.

You are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT! She WILL NOT, because SHE CANNOT “listen to reason”. As JoAnn29 has explained, she has physical damage in her brain that has deprived her of the ability to act as you expect her to, or as you want her to.

There is NO CONVERSATION, NO ARGUMENT, NO DISCUSSION, that will restore your mother’s ability to benefit from what you are telling her. Whether your husband
“defended” you or not, the results of hostile or loving or mistrusting, or ANY OTHER VERBAL INTERACTIONS, are equally misunderstood and confused by someone with dementia.

When caring for a patient with multiple needs, it is ALWAYS important for the caregiver to be caring for herself or himself.

Part of this self care is understanding that it is important to access help for the patient when it is needed.

Your mother also has multiple physical problems IN ADDITION to suffering from dementia. It is obvious that you have worked hard to provide for her safety and comfort, but at a cost to yourself.

It is time for you to start developing a list of resources, including part time help and/or a survey of local residential care sites. You can begin this work online, and you will find such a search informative and empowering.

"I need more help with setting boundaries and not letting her run my life."

Interesting. Your mother won't do as you dictate, this causes you stress and anxiety, and that is her running your life, is it?

The boundary you most need to focus on is that between her life, which is hers to screw up, and your life, which is yours.

If your mother needs support to live safely at home, and needs to make certain adjustments and adaptations as part of that, it does not follow that you get to take charge. Let somebody else intervene: her doctor, APS (if the risks are specific and severe), professional care services (who are well used to negotiating support plans with their clients), possibly hospice if she is reaching that stage. But in any case, not you.

Do not take responsibility for things which are not within your control.

Hey Clarlady,

Your husband might need to be re-assured that you are 'taking his side' Maybe, approach him as a valuable, irreplaceable member of the team; "need to care for/look after mom".
Your husband is trying hard. You are trying hard. Your mom is not making it easy.
In the end; what do you want? If you had to choose? What is the "end" goal? Your mother sounds like she has a goal, too. Maybe her goal is very limited, extreme, unrealistic and mean. Such is dementia.
After this is all said and done; where do you WANT to be?
-just a few things for thought; I am no eccentric scholar. I am merely just someone else going through the crazy, upside down, no warning, unsure reality of what our loved ones put us through...... day to day, hour-by-hour, minute to minute.

Hi Clarlady. I'm going to assume that your mother does not live with you and your husband. If she has Alzheimer's/dementia and other mental illness then she should certainly not be living alone and unsupervised anymore. From what you've said here trying to be a caregiver to her is making you sick and that has to stop.
If she will not or is unable to listen to reason for her own safety, then it's out of your hands. Call APS (Adult Protective Services) in your state and explain to them what's going on. They will take over from there. Unless live-in or 24 hour caregivers in shifts is a possibility for her, she will get placed in a nursing home/LTC.
If you have lost all that weight, can't sleep at night, and now have a nervous twitch, then you're going to have a nervous breakdown. Let APS take over now.

I can only guess with all the stress you are experiencing that your mom must live with you. Your mom obviously must be suffering from some type of mental decline(though you don't mention that specifically)if she is experiencing paranoia, as that is a classic symptom of dementia/Alzheimer's. And of course with having dementia, she will never be able to reason again, so you might as well get used to that. Perhaps it's time to educate yourself on dementia/Alzheimer's, so you can better understand what your mom is going through. And because caring for her has taken such a negative toll on you, it's probably time to be looking for the appropriate facility to place her in as well. I wish you the best.

Sounds like you are having a lot of stress over your mother's behavior. Unless she is mentally incompetent (declared by a doctor) and you are mentioned in powers of attorney for medical and financial. you really do not have much power over your mother. Sorry.

I would suggest counselling, if your mother is willing to listen and agree to help from the counsellor.

If your mom is not willing to work with you, then you need to decide on how to manage her difficult behavior in ways that don't cause worry and stress. I would suggest that you and your husband read any of the books by Townsend and Cloud about boundaries... I like the one about boundaries with parents for adult children. That might help you to see another perspective about your situation. You may wish to enlist the aid of a counsellor as your identify mom's problem behaviors and ways of dealing with them.

Nobody should be having big loud, scary fights with demented elders, for any reason. They can't and won't listen to reason because they have a brain disorder that prevents them from doing so. Your mother is paranoid and distrustful for the same reason,,,,this is classic dementia behavior.

What do you hope to accomplish with her? If she won't go into Assisted Living/Memory Care, and won't accept help from anyone, you'll have to either have her deemed incompetent by a doctor so you can get guardianship, or, wait till she hurts herself. Then she will go to the hospital and likely rehab, where they will not release her to live alone again, if she does live alone, you don't say, and then her power of choice will be removed. She will have to go to Assisted Living or Skilled Nursing for managed care and that will be that.

In the meantime, worrying yourself to this degree over something you can't control may land YOU in the hospital! Maybe look into therapy to learn some coping strategies to better manage your feelings. It's tough to have a stubborn and demented mother, I know, but it's worse to heighten your own anxiety to unmanageable levels.

Best of luck

Probably need more info: What is it you're trying to get her to do? Adding one more person to the conversation can only get ugly because it become two against one.

Does she have dementia - even if not diagnosed - are there certain signs you are seeing that tells you something is wrong mentally? Has she always been hard headed or determined to do her own thing and/or very independent?

Nothing - you do absolutely nothing until she makes a move to increase the quality of the peace. Anything you do undermines everything you have done, and everything your husband has done to support you. You cannot undermine his support for both his benefit of you supporting him, and you both as if you do do anything she will think she has got away with it and you are admitting you were wrong. It took my mother 6 months during which we simply treated her with politeness and dealt with any needs she had which came under our remit (like paying her facility bills - made harder by the fact she has in a fit of pique changed her bank account and not understood the knock on effects), but she eventually decided to be civil and accept she had problems she needed us for.

Keep your husband away from your mom. She is your issue, not his.

Let it rest, accept the "peace" and while you may feel uncomfortable, bringing it up will only stir more emotional tension. If your mom isn't talking, it is her problem, her stubbornness again isn't your problem either. Your husband defended you, and as far as I am concerned he did what he felt was right. While your mom is ultimately your problem, when you get married, the families join together as one. Don't let your feelings get the better of you, take deep breaths and let it go. You will not be any good to either your husband or your mom if you get sick. Pick your battles. I hope things will work out for you.

Stay out of it.

I don't think you can resolve things if Mom won't apologize. My mom is EXACTLY the same way! She gets angry all the time at one little thing or another. Someone said something she didn't like, no one paid enough attention to her at any given time, we didn't do exactly as she asked, we looked at our cell phone too much, a day went by and we didn't take her shopping or somewhere (she has to go somewhere every day, despite the difficulties of walker, scooter, etc)... the list goes on and on...and then she punishes us by going into her room and refusing to speak to anyone, won't eat, or even cries to other people on the phone. This can go on for days. Do they even have any inkling that this is supposed to be OUR retirement years and, instead, we're here caring for ungrateful, impossible people? In any case, I've given up grovelling and have decided it's her problem, not mine. It sure makes for an unpleasant life, tho.

Nothing you can do.

Hopefully ya'll will learn to live together without the arguments.

I think since it is your mom, you should stand up to her yourself, not involve your husband.

NI thing wrong at the right time fir him by himself to talk to your mom letting her know your feelings, ect.

But, it might have seemed like ya'll were ganging up on her when ya'll both started in.

Dissues ground Rules.

Tell husband you appreciate him being on your side but you can handle it.

Then, handle it or your mom needs to live elsewhere.

Aldo remember, just because your mom is living with you, she should be able to make her own decisions even tho you may not agree with them as long as it isn't hurting you or your husband.

People have different ideas and it doesn't mean either are wrong.

Let it go and forget it. I would have a nervous twitch if I let everything bother me that happens in my family. Take some time for yourself. When you feel like arguing step away from the situation to calm down. I little distance does a world of good for all of us. Good luck.

Does mom live with you or on her own? I think that makes a big difference on how you handle this.

If mom lives alone, then just leave it be - water under the bridge, and all that. And in the future, when the conversation starts to become acrimonious, just leave. "Mom, I'm not going to continue this conversation with you while you speak to me/husband like this."

But if she lives with you, and this is causing friction in the house - people walking on eggshells around each other, so to speak - then it's time to have a "come to Jesus" talk with mom. Your husband stood up and defended you; there are people here who have never had that luxury! You now owe it to him to tell mom that she will NOT speak to you or your husband in that fashion while she lives under your roof; that she will afford you the simple respect that you both deserve, since you are giving her a place to live. That if she can't accept these two simple rules, then you will have discuss other living arrangements for her.

The problem with ignoring it, as I see it - your husband picked up the banner for you and carried it into battle; if he does this on a routine basis, and then turns around and sees you disappearing from the fight, he might very well become sick of doing battle with your mom. He lent you his support; I think you owe it to him to return the favor.

Perhaps it is time for momma to go into a retirement home and see how they put up with her abusive behaviour.

Lots of good advice here. I am wondering why you and your mom had a fight, what reliable help you were suggesting, and why you are so involved in a situation that clearly is not working. Mothers seldom listen to their children's advice at any age. I do try to kick against the "mother-knows-best" culture we are raised in, but I must admit my first reaction when my sons start to make a suggestion is always defensive. I beat that reaction down and try to listen, but it is not natural.

At 84 your mother may need some help, but she may be quite able to make her own decisions, too. At 84, my mother needed some help getting to doctor's appointments but was fully capable of running the rest of her life. Naturally my sisters and I didn't always agree with her choices, but none of those disagreements involved a decision that was unsafe or unhealthy, so we let it ride.

Perhaps the best thing you could do for your life is to unplug yourself a bit from your mother. Is she in a safe place? Does she have food to eat? Then she is probably ok. You say in your profile that you have trouble with anxiety disorders. You probably are not the right person to be the primary caregiver for your mother. It is much too stressful if you are prone to anxiety to begin with. Is there another family member who can be the primary worrier so you can just pitch in as needed?

It may be useful to talk to someone from senior services and find out what options are available for your mom. Perhaps she could have a case-worker/care-giver who visited her once or twice a week to check on her basic situation? This would provide you with unbiased information on your mother's well-being without subjecting you to worrying over the details of her life. There may be other options that offer less stress to you and your husband.

You probably want to continue giving your mother some care, but you don't sound as though you are the ideal primary caregiver. Neither is your husband. The biggest trick to getting on with old people is to never let them bait you into an argument. When they get angry that is all that they feel, and all they can express. Even those whose minds are still sharp and clear tend to think less quickly than they did at 50 and we all tend to lose the ability to multi-task as we age.

If nothing else, try to limit your time with her to short periods once or twice a week. When you feel YOUR emotions heating up, end the visit quickly. If you are angry, she will quickly get angry, too, and nothing good will happen after that. It made a HUGE difference with my mother when my sisters and I would say "I'm sorry you are having a bad day" and leaving when Mom would start getting catty and nasty. Eventually her desire for company out-stubborned her need to vent her discomforts and she slowly became sweeter in outlook--or at least the pretense. Pretense is fine. I'll take that.

I think you can build on that uneasy peace by insisting on pleasant conversation or none. For a while it may be better to make no suggestions to her unless there are urgent safety matters. Think about taking her a gift that she will enjoy, a bowl of fruit, or something else simple and inexpensive. I really believe that she must mean a lot to you or you wouldn't bother with her at all. Try concentrating on the reasons why you care about her and ignore the fact that she has dirty dishes in her sink or whatever issues you think she should attend to better.

Clarlady: As your profile says that your mother suffers from dementia, a screaming match will not work as her brain is broken and she cannot comprehend loudness.

You may not be able to resolve the argument and if you can't so be it. Try not to argue with her, just lay out what you believe in a reasonable tone of voice (much easier said than done). If she accepts it fine, if she doesn't, unless it is physically dangerous, I don't know as there is anything you can do. Even if it is dangerous, unless you have guardianship over her I don't know how you can stop her. If you have adult children in the area or siblings see if can they step in to assist from time to time to take pressure off you. If it's just you and your husband, maybe hiring a caregiver to look in on her could help you.

If she is incompetent, then steps need to be taken which will only add to your stress. For assistance speak to her doctor, check with social services, department/council on aging in your area for resources. If things progress you may need to consult an elder lawyer.

There are no easy answers - nobody has a hand book such as "Dummies for Caring For Your Aging Parents/Loved Ones." You need to also take care of yourself - remember to breathe, don't take what you mother say personally (also easier said than done.) Also try forgiving - your mother (you don't have to tell you mother you forgive her - she probably wouldn't understand anyway) and especially yourself. Forgiveness can be freeing by relieving the burden you carry - believe me, it takes practice. If you have to, do it daily or after each visit with you mother.

If your mother has dementia, arguing will only make her more paranoid. She will also be unable to understand how your health is being affected.

All you can do is move forward, and hope that she "forgets" the argument.