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Can I first clarify? Would your sibling be moving into Mother's home WITH Mother? To provide care? Or into Mother's empty home, as Mother has had to move into supported accomodation?
Yes, definitely have a solid lease. If she gets insulted at having to sign one, too bad. Have 2 original (signed) copies, one for you and one for her. I'm sure you can find good ones on Legalzoom.com or Rocketlawyer.com
Yes, have a lease. See how much it would cost a lawyer to draw up one. She should be held responsible for all the utilities even water bill since she is using it. Taxes, these should be considered in the rent.
I already drew one up... a very basic Texas lease with no frills. Just month to month, for X amount, beginning in next month. No deposit, no late fees, no first and last month... NOTHING... yet she will not agree to sign. Super upset and frustrated. I feel like even though I am mom's POA, I have my hands tied because I don't want to burden mom about this.. and my sister knows that. So she is capitalizing on this and is doing whatever she wants!
1. You’re hesitating, otherwise you wouldn’t ask. 2. The decision is very personal. You know the facts. You must decide. 3. I wouldn’t charge rent to my sibling.
and 4. Please don’t tell me your sister is the one who helped your mom for years. This is why she has no home, she’s poor and she’s living in your mom’s house.
I asked this question because I was really starting to question whether asking a sibling to sign a lease was some horrible act... I'm seeing now that it's a pretty reasonable thing to do. Thanks
There are several things going on here. And you should have an Attorney draw up a CONTRACT, 1. Is your sibling going to care for mom? If so that needs to be spelled out. How many hours is she going to work. (and it is work. And there should be a provision for a second or even third caregiver) How much will she be paid? (room and board is NOT payment for caregiving services) 2. Is your sibling also going to be responsible for 1/2 the utilities, gas, electric, insurance and all the other household expenses? (she should be) 3. She should be charged typical rental rates for your area.
It should be spelled out what sibling is expected to do when mom dies or if mom is placed in Memory Care. Will she be able to remain in the house or will the house be sold? Could she purchase it (fair market value) or will this be part of inheritance in that case will you be willing to sell to her if she wants to purchase? How quickly will she have to move out if that is what has to be done?
Ok, if I had read your profile I would have seen what was commented on after I posted. Mom is in AL So that rules out sister caring for mom. Sister should pay rent just as any other person would pay rent. And if you are using the rent to provide more funds to keep mom where she is then sister should pay market value as far as rent goes. So yes insist on a lease agreement.
As a property manager for many years, I would get a signed lease agreement with deposit! Preferably a credit check on the possible tenant, and NOT a "Month to Month" lease. Find a local Property Management company to handle it for you, they don't charge that much to do it and will save you tons of trouble.
POA means you have a fudiciary duty to protect your Mom's property.
If sibling won't sign, forget it. Sister can't do "whatever she wants" when she doesn't own it. Change the locks!
From the moment mom moves out of her house it is a huge problem.
What happens when moms money runs out? You indicated she had enough for 8-10 mo if sis rents the house.
Will mom need to go into a NH on Medicaid when she runs out of money?
If so, then you will have to sell the house or list it as an exempt asset on the Medicaid application.
Is there a reason you aren’t selling it now?
Mom is allowed to exempt it but there Is quiet a bit to know if that is the way things are shaping up.
I would advise you to see an elder attorney who is well versed in Medicaid for the state of Texas. Do this now before you do anything as significant as renting moms house especially to a sibling who has dug her heels in.
The attorney can advise you on the most prudent steps to take for moms ability to qualify for Medicaid should she need it.
If sis moves into the house and receives mail, she will be a tenant, w/or w/o a contract and tenants have rights.
To get her out if she continues to flaunt best practices for mom, will require you or mom to evict her.
Does she have children, pets etc.? It can get very ugly if all goes south and really sis is making it hard for you to trust her.
You, as moms POA, are responsible for the decisions made about the house.
See a certified elder attorney (not just any attorney) so that you know what steps to take.
Otherwise, with all you have on you already, you will be caught in that …what If mom doesn’t pass before the money runs out, how will I get sister out …. vice. That is so unnecessary and can be avoided if you make the right decisions at this point.
If mom has to go on Medicaid, she will have no money to pay taxes, insurance, utilities on her home. if she rents the house the rental income could keep her from qualifying for Medicaid.
So, when the money runs out, you will need to sell the house or exempt it.
Either way, the house is not available to rent when the money runs out.
If you sell, then mom will have the money from the sell of the house to stay in ALF longer. To qualify for Medicaid you must meet two strict requirements. Financial and Medical. She must have less than the states guideline ($2,000) in assets, and she must need skilled nursing. Otherwise she will not qualify.
And we haven’t even discussed whether or not sis is in good health and employed with a bit of savings to meet her obligations. Is she can’t pay the rent, then mom will have even less time in the ALF.
Moms money should pay for the attorney. Keep good records.
If your mother has so little money then the house should be sold, not rented, 8 to 10 months of additional income is a drop in the bucket.
Without a doubt a lease should be done, if you do not sell the home.
I hate to be a Debbie downer but even if you have a lease and your sister decides to stay and not budge it will be difficult to get her out.
Believe me when I say this, I have been doing rentals for over 40 years and I would never rent to a family member. Too much emotional baggage to deal with.
Hi, you're not a Debbie Downer... you're just telling me what I need to know. The reason the house is not on the market is because my older siblings started causing alot of drama by calling mom, telling her I was selling her house, taking her to the house to see the sign in the yard etc.. making her very upset and very concerned... I could not bear what they were doing, and could not explain to mom why the house needed to be sold, even though mom is not so far gone that she could not understand, she just cannot retain. So, my sister told mom she could move in, and help pay rent, and this way the house would remain a bit longer, and she could bring mom back and forth to visit. (Bad idea), but she and my older brother s were on a tirade.. and I failed mom, and agree to lease the house to my sister temporarily. It's a band aid and mom's resources will eventually dwindle down to where selling is the only option. At that point they (my older siblings) know it is eminent. In hindsight, I wish I would have just stayed the course, but I can't undo what is done. Now that my sister is getting her wish, she refuses to sign the lease. I just want her to do what's right and wish she would just cooperate. Wishing won't help... I need prayers answered, and I need a backbone. I'm not cut out for confrontation, and I'm not cut out to be the "bad guy" but this is the position I find myself in unfortunately. I will need to do what I need to do, and insist on the lease, or else the deal is off. Thanks for all your info.. that is very helpful! :)
No signature on a lease = NO TENANCY. Given all the other factors with your mother's finances, Medicaid, etc you should seek an elder law attorney's advice. I believe selling the home outright and using the funds for your mom's care is the wisest decision.
you said you failed your mom,we may make “mistakes” but I can feel that you have love and concern for ur mom,what I would say to you is to make the best decisions in your situation that can positively affect your moms future…for she needs to be protected and defended as she can’t do it herself All positive energies to you stay strong and don’t give up on mommy :)
My brother lived with our folks for three years after he and his wife split up, and never paid a dime of rent because my dad didn’t ask him to.
After my dad died, we had to put my mother in a nursing home. But then my brother was living in his own place paying exorbitant rent, so I suggested he move back into our folks’ home so it wouldn’t sit empty and he could save some money.
However, as our mother's POA, I insisted he pay rent because it was her house and my obligation to care for her finances. I charged him about half of what he was paying in his condo, and he was fine with that.
I did not make him sign a lease simply because we’re not a family that fights about anything, nor did I worry that he would not fix something that needed to be fixed or not take care of the property. He paid his rent on time directly to my mothers accounts, and everything worked out fine. He even moved out when I asked him to after her mother died so we could get the house sold.
Your sister is being unreasonable, and as she is being that way, I'd stick to my guns and insist on the lease. Tell her it's just so the Is are dotted and the Ts crossed in the event you need it for Mom's taxes or something, but if she's going to act like an adversary and not a teammate in this, then she can find somewhere else to live.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
Or into Mother's empty home, as Mother has had to move into supported accomodation?
2. The decision is very personal. You know the facts. You must decide.
3. I wouldn’t charge rent to my sibling.
and
4. Please don’t tell me your sister is the one who helped your mom for years. This is why she has no home, she’s poor and she’s living in your mom’s house.
I didn’t see this:
”my sibling would be moving into mom's house”
Well, as I said, point 2.
(Ventingisback)
And you should have an Attorney draw up a CONTRACT,
1. Is your sibling going to care for mom?
If so that needs to be spelled out. How many hours is she going to work. (and it is work. And there should be a provision for a second or even third caregiver)
How much will she be paid? (room and board is NOT payment for caregiving services)
2. Is your sibling also going to be responsible for 1/2 the utilities, gas, electric, insurance and all the other household expenses? (she should be)
3. She should be charged typical rental rates for your area.
It should be spelled out what sibling is expected to do when mom dies or if mom is placed in Memory Care.
Will she be able to remain in the house or will the house be sold?
Could she purchase it (fair market value) or will this be part of inheritance in that case will you be willing to sell to her if she wants to purchase?
How quickly will she have to move out if that is what has to be done?
I forgot :\
Grandma1954 July 26, 2023 1:45 pm
With an unrelated tenant, you’ll get first and last and a security deposit. That’s acting in mom’s best interest anyway.
You don’t have to obey or cater to sister. Your duty is to mom.
July 26, 2023 3:15
Ok, if I had read your profile I would have seen what was commented on after I posted.
Mom is in AL
So that rules out sister caring for mom.
Sister should pay rent just as any other person would pay rent.
And if you are using the rent to provide more funds to keep mom where she is then sister should pay market value as far as rent goes.
So yes insist on a lease agreement.
POA means you have a fudiciary duty to protect your Mom's property.
If sibling won't sign, forget it. Sister can't do "whatever she wants" when she doesn't own it. Change the locks!
From the moment mom moves out of her house it is a huge problem.
What happens when moms money runs out? You indicated she had enough for 8-10 mo if sis rents the house.
Will mom need to go into a NH on Medicaid when she runs out of money?
If so, then you will have to sell the house or list it as an exempt asset on the Medicaid application.
Is there a reason you aren’t selling it now?
Mom is allowed to exempt it but there Is quiet a bit to know if that is the way things are shaping up.
I would advise you to see an elder attorney who is well versed in Medicaid for the state of Texas. Do this now before you do anything as significant as renting moms house especially to a sibling who has dug her heels in.
The attorney can advise you on the most prudent steps to take for moms ability to qualify for Medicaid should she need it.
If sis moves into the house and receives mail, she will be a tenant, w/or w/o a contract and tenants have rights.
To get her out if she continues to flaunt best practices for mom, will require you or mom to evict her.
Does she have children, pets etc.?
It can get very ugly if all goes south and really sis is making it hard for you to trust her.
You, as moms POA, are responsible for the decisions made about the house.
See a certified elder attorney (not just any attorney) so that you know what steps to take.
Otherwise, with all you have on you already, you will be caught in that …what If mom doesn’t pass before the money runs out, how will I get sister out …. vice. That is so unnecessary and can be avoided if you make the right decisions at this point.
If mom has to go on Medicaid, she will have no money to pay taxes, insurance, utilities on her home. if she rents the house the rental income could keep her from qualifying for Medicaid.
So, when the money runs out, you will need to sell the house or exempt it.
Either way, the house is not available to rent when the money runs out.
If you sell, then mom will have the money from the sell of the house to stay in ALF longer. To qualify for Medicaid you must meet two strict requirements. Financial and Medical. She must have less than the states guideline ($2,000) in assets, and she must need skilled nursing. Otherwise she will not qualify.
And we haven’t even discussed whether or not sis is in good health and employed with a bit of savings to meet her obligations. Is she can’t pay the rent, then mom will have even less time in the ALF.
Moms money should pay for the attorney. Keep good records.
Without a doubt a lease should be done, if you do not sell the home.
I hate to be a Debbie downer but even if you have a lease and your sister decides to stay and not budge it will be difficult to get her out.
Believe me when I say this, I have been doing rentals for over 40 years and I would never rent to a family member. Too much emotional baggage to deal with.
All positive energies to you stay strong and don’t give up on mommy :)
After my dad died, we had to put my mother in a nursing home. But then my brother was living in his own place paying exorbitant rent, so I suggested he move back into our folks’ home so it wouldn’t sit empty and he could save some money.
However, as our mother's POA, I insisted he pay rent because it was her house and my obligation to care for her finances. I charged him about half of what he was paying in his condo, and he was fine with that.
I did not make him sign a lease simply because we’re not a family that fights about anything, nor did I worry that he would not fix something that needed to be fixed or not take care of the property. He paid his rent on time directly to my mothers accounts, and everything worked out fine. He even moved out when I asked him to after her mother died so we could get the house sold.
Your sister is being unreasonable, and as she is being that way, I'd stick to my guns and insist on the lease. Tell her it's just so the Is are dotted and the Ts crossed in the event you need it for Mom's taxes or something, but if she's going to act like an adversary and not a teammate in this, then she can find somewhere else to live.