Should we just ALWAYS agree?

So, has she been evaluated for cognitive function, dementia, anxiety?

Any and all of those could be causing the symptoms you describe. Meds might help.

Not to my knowledge. She had her yearly physical a month ago with her GP; I didn't go in with her (sat in waiting room, as per her request) but the appointment lasted a LONG time. I began to worry because she was in there so long, but when she came out she was happy as a clam and said the doctor talked to her a lot about her nurse's training and her career, etc. I suspected that it was more of a cognitive evaluation than just a chatty visit, but I don't know for certain. I'm on her medical records as able to have info, but don't know how far is overstepping. That's also one of my questions-- can I talk to her doc about this? Just now, my daughter Molly texted me to say that she kept telling her that "Trump was happy in her (Molly's) room." Molly was so confused; didn't know WHAT she meant. The dog, Kayak, was in her room. So Molly said, "You mean Kayak?" MOm: YES! That's what I SAID! (it wasn't, and Molly was genuinely confused. Mom is NOT a Trump fan, so that made it more bizarre.

Am I entitled to talk to her doc?

If she has you named on the list of people she has given permission for her doctor to share her medical information with....then yes, you can talk to her doctor and more importantly, he can talk to you about her.

I would do that because it sounds like there may be a few symptoms of dementia going on.

My mother got very angry and self righteous in stages 4 and 5. She was a pistol and became argumentative and aggressive.

Have the doctor set up an appointment with a geriatric neurologist who can examine her and give her more lengthy tests.

I might take a look at whatever there is at the doctor's office that provides you with access, to see if you can also speak with the doctor about her situation. Are you her designated Healthcare POA? If not, I wonder if she is competent to appoint someone at this point. It's very important, because if she were to decline.....it's quite important, as is a Durable Power of Attorney to handle financial matters.

Some of the things that you described with your mother made me curious. There are multiple causes of dementia, such as Alzheimers, strokes, Parkinsons,'s etc. But, there are some conditions that manifest mainly with personality changes and aphasia (loss of words). I'd explore it, but, you may need an expert, because a GP, might not be equipped to diagnose it. I'd ask them to rule out Lewy Body dementia. I'm not saying she has that, but, I'd research it and keep it in mind, if you get the chance to speak with her doctor. You might also rule out things like UTI, vitamin deficiency, infections, medication reaction, etc. All can cause a change in behavior and cognitive decline.

If it is dementia, the behavior progresses over time, but, there is no way to know how long one phase may lasts. I would investigate options for her care, since living in a miserable home is really not healthy. The stress will really take a toll on you and your family.

UTI has more of a personality impact in seniors and less physical symptoms. Changes in attitudes are a symptom that a UTI could be present.

Just out of curiosity, could you try acknowledging her view point?

Mom: it seems cooler out today.

Niece: I think your right, I've been out with the dogs and I'm melting but I would be a puddle if it hadn't cooled down some.

She is loosing control of everything, she probably just wants to feel like she hasn't completely lost her mind.

Empathy goes a long way when dealing with the elderly, the young adults in your home need to have more for grandma.

Obviously you have been caring for your mom for a long time and you love her very much, so go get a vacation for you and hubby, come back rested and let her be right. As long as no one is in danger, what can it hurt? I bet she feels better after your vacation as well, to much of a good thing is just that, too much. But get that urine test first.

Some times when we are exhausted the little things get beyond our borders and we can't reason out how to deal with them. You really need a break from caregiving and time for you to get back in balance. It is so important that as a caregiver you give care to yourself, not always easy but always important.

I would say Dementia. Looking back with my Mom the signs were subtle. A head injury exasperated the Dementia. Your Mom may know something is quite not right and is not saying anything. At this point, justvagreevwith her. When she says you need dog food, say Ok will put it on my list. When she says its a nice day and its raining like cats abd dogs just say, yes it is. Call her doctor and ask him if he noticed anything. And explain what has been happening. In early stages a Dementia person is very good at covering up their problem. Its called "show timers". Note if things get worse around dinner time. This is called "sundowning". Some people on this forum say parent is good in the morning and start going down hill in the afternoon. Note if she tends to be confused when she first wakes up. Reasoning and processing what is being said are the first things to go and shortterm memory.

That's unfortunate that she is refusing to sign Healthcare POA and Durable POA. It will put you in a bad situation, when the time comes for your to make decisions and handle her affairs, because without those documents, you'll likely be hampered. I might consult with my own Elder Law attorney, NOT the one she is consulting with, but, a different one and get info on what you can expect when the time comes. You can also get some tips from around on this site, from others who have had to file for Guardianship.

I'd also explore what types of care that she might be entitled to. It's not for the children of the person to pay. They pay with their own income or assets, and if they don't have enough, they may qualify for state or federal assistance with the costs. There are normally, some forms of in home assistance too.

Has she been diagnosed with anything specific yet?
If, after you talk to her doctor----and DO talk to her doctor---the doc says he's done some basic Q&A testing with your mom and he thinks she's not suffering from dementia symptoms, then call her out on her behavior.
She may be depressed as she is recognizing that something isn't quite right. That's understandable. My In-laws ended up both being put on Zoloft at their gerontologist suggestion under the heading of "it will help with your feelings and memory issues". Folks of their generation think you're broken if you're depressed.
However, you and your family do not deserve to walk on eggshells every time she opens her mouth. Just as you said, it is affecting everyone. Can you see you and your husband living with this behavior until she passes away? It sounds like she's otherwise in very good health. For all your kindness, you are being repaid with hatred. She may be hating herself and not you, but it has to be worked out, one way or another.
Do NOT always agree (as you asked). It will end up eating you alive.
I am sorry you're going through this. It sounds like you and your family love one another very much and your Mom, too. It sounds like she's not herself, and you'll have to step in and get her some help.

You have many people trying to control one situation. Take a step back. Yes, she may be mean and angry, but it's truly not at you. She's angry at her situation. There are many books on the subject. One is the 36 Hour Day. It gives good insight to their day. Another one I'm reading right now is a very light read, called "Living with Alzheimer's and Other Dementias, 101 Stores of Caregiving, Coping and Compassion" .
My dad is suffering (we all are) from his progressive dementia. His short term memory is very limited. He's in Assisted Living. He was very combative with the staff. However, we now have Hospice Care in there 7 days a week for several hours. Those people are so amazing. It's just a few hours with the same person daily who is not family. It gives us all a break. Good luck and prayers....and take time for yourself.

It is not HER, but the disease. Try validating her and see what happens. :-)

That is EXACTLY like my dad, who is 91. I really have to tip toe around him because I never know what innocent remark is going to set him off. And he really gets set off! Explosively. His main point of view is that he thinks I am assuming he is stupid when I asked for information for Medicaid for my mom so she could have aides or reminded him what he cannot spend money on because of Medicaid. And believe me he tried to color outside the lines! I had to watch his accounts like a hawk and warn people not to lend him money. He does not have dementia or any other cognitive disorder either. I have come to the point of asking myself, do I really need to say or do what I think I need to say or do? The answer many times is no. I just agree with him, whatever he says now even if it is wrong. Just agree, "Yes we need cat food. Thank you for reminding me."

You are in a tough place. We just went through something similar with my MIL. She doesn't live with us though.
I am grateful for that as she does get an attitude just like your mother.

I found there is no easy way to deal with it.

My MIL had designated her son as DPOA with her daughter as second. My husband, her son has had a stroke and has dementia, the daughter refuses to help so we had to get a third party Guardian appointed.

Could you get outside help with your mom? She probably wouldn't like it, my MIL didn't at first either.

Take care, it is a tough situation.

Getting your mom

Everyone has given you good information. You could just make an appointment with an attorney, take her with you can have the attorney talk to her about the need for both DPOA and Medical POA. Choose the attorney gender she would be most receptive to. If she doesn’t acquiesce there, then I don’t know how you manage except to say to her "mom, if you don’t go ahead with this then I won’t be able to be there to take care of things for you. My hands will be tied".
you made a statement like "I’m notoriously bad about self care"...like Dr. Phil, I’d like to ask "how’s that working for you?" Not good I’m sure. You better get exceptionally good about self care because you are worth it and you need it to survive.
There is a thin book I’d like to recommend by a psychologist who counsels adult children of difficult parents. You can get it on amazon. Called "Loving hard to love parents" by Dr Paul Chafetz. It was very helpful to me. It helps you with responses and ways to cope with their behavior.

I feel for you. More than many here, I become impatient with what people put up with in regards to these difficult elders.

My mother is always right, like your mother. If I'm feeling feisty, I will counter her. But often I just don't say anything. My mother has bad hearing, and it's exhausting having to repeat everything over and over.

BUT...my mother doesn't live with me (and never will). I can drive off and leave her to her shut-in life, and I am around her as little as possible (my role is her driver).

Your mother lives with you, so there is no escape. I am wondering if you have plans for when she becomes too much to handle? Are you willing to at some point provide transfer assistance, toileting help, changing diapers, getting up with her multiple times per night, etc? Would she qualify for Medicaid to she could be placed in a facility? Please don't tell us you have promised her to never put her in a facility!

Oh sweetheart - I could have written that same message. Mom is struggling as she realizes she can’t remember things. It’s like she is on a merry go round, but can’t get off. We can get off - we can reason , but mom can’t. There are triggers that can make her worse. Sometimes the triggers can be so benign as mom not having anything to wear, someone on the roof fixing a shingle. Of course, mom has plenty to wear.

Right now mom lives in an independent living residence and I have home care with her approx. 10 hours a day. I live in a townhouse and couldn’t have her living with me.

Have you looked into home care?

I have now decided that mom needs to be in a assisted living/memory care facility. Can your mom afford that? If so, you need to start looking. It is a very hard process as there are many facilities out there. If you think mom may have an issue with that, look into respite care - where mom tries out living in a facility for a few weeks or so.

Also, a lot of these facilities have groups you can go to. These are so you can talk to others that are in the exact same boat you are. It’s so nice to realize you aren’t alone - AND the best part is that you don’t have to have your parent residing there to be in these groups.

Most importantly, you and your family MUST take care of yourselves. As you know, if you don’t take care of yourself, you can’t help others.

I’m here if you need to talk.

My mom's Geriatric doctor says never argue with her. Ignore, change subject whatever you can do because your mom obviously loves the argument. Mine does also. I sometimes worry my eyes will disappear with all the eye-rolling I do. My mom says,"you think I'm stupid". I believe she has conversations in her head without my saying anything. As for the POA you need one. Talking to lawyers is a good idea. Does she have a will? A POA is part of that and when my mom was unconscious, it really came in handy. I am now her guardian. When my dad passes away, I would have had a fight on my hands; now the process will proceed without argument; oh she will be angry, but I'm in charge.

trainer, I’m with harpcat - the visit to the lawyer for those documents is happening - what day and time shall we go, not If. If she has someone better than you she’s welcome to name them. I’d call the Dr’s office now regardless and ask questions and see how it goes. A while back, I typed up a paper that just said I’m her person and can talk to the doctor, told Mom to sign it, made copies and handed them out. Tell her it allows you simple things like making appointments as well. I’d hold onto her arm and walk into the Dr’s room with her at appointments. If she wants a ride, that’s how we do it.
Many discussions on here touch on whether we try to please them all the time, or avoid arguments, and you must be willing to rile her sometimes to get things accomplished. You want to be gentle and kind, of course! But none of us gets through the day without being teed off sometimes, she can take it.
I have a series of Oh acknowledgment noises that I make throughout Mom’s diatribes on things I don’t agree with or that make no sense and are inconsequential. Earlier on I was still trying to have two-way conversations but they're really one-way now. She isn’t ‘discussing’ she’s, like, staying in touch with the world by mouthing things. I always think of that movie - was it Forget Paris? - where Billy Chrystal’s dad had to read out loud every slogan and sign he saw.
Your mom *is* the odd one out in your home, that’s kind of unfortunate she feels ganged up on. Can you get her to anything, anyplace sometimes where there are other folks like her? Invite over any friends she has?
Book recommendations are always great, plus I see a counselor (I’m the only child and relative, too) and it’s very helpful.
Best to you! 💐

My husband, 77 with Lewy Body Dementia, was doing this and it progressed into outbursts so vitrious that they were triggering my PTSD. Using his son as a mediator I sat down with him and told him that I will no longer tolerate these outbursts and if he does it one more time he was going to a facility.
That conversation got some things out on the table. He was frustrated b/c he has lost his freedom to drive and feels trapped. I work on more outings and his he has kept his temper and those constant rude responses under control. My threat stands. If he flies into a temper one more time, he’s going to a facility.
We have to set healthy limits as caregivers. I cared for both parents and my brother simultaneously and my husband joined the list. I am not Wonder Woman.
Even with dementia, my husband has not forgotten to behave since I drew the line.

I know what you’re going through. I can still feel the knot in my stomach when I think about the impossible task of trying to get along with my mother when she lived with us. Damed if you do....damed if you don’t. I hated to get out of bed in the morning. I felt nauseous and couldn’t eat. She’s now in an AL and while she hasn’t changed, my life has. I still experience the same symptoms when I visit her (twice a week and I take her to lunch and bring her to my house for dinner) ...self imposed guilt) but when I leave, I feel like a “free” person. You have to find a way to have her live elsewhere. Low income housing is an option if she can’t afford AL. It would be better to provide her with daily help if she’s in her own place than it is to have her with you. At least your home will be your own once again.

Actually, I would have just said, "okay" to the cat food and I would have looked at the thermometer re: the temperature.

Walk a mile in her shoes to see how it sounds to your mother. It does sound like you're going out of your way to be disagreeing with her in your examples.

I'm sorry, but that is just how it sounds to me.

TrainerMom, when I read your post, for a minute I thought: did I write this in my sleep? Then I realized I don't have a daughter! Seriously, I could have written nearly every word.

My mom has mid-stage dementia and does the exact same things. Only she also says that I'm crazy, stupid, she hates me, etc. when I don't agree with her. The only thing that works for me (sort of) is to politely ignore her. I am an extremely logical thinker, so agreeing with her is tough for me, but I do it as much as I can when she forces me into commenting on something.

I could go on (and on), but the real point I want to make is that you are NOT alone. I have found this forum to be immensely helpful for the very reason you mention: it gives us someone to bounce this stuff off of and remind us that we are doing the best we can.

You and your family are patient saints! Your conversations and her anger sound like what I am going through with my father. He does not have dementia, but is old, and does sometimes get things wrong. We are a family of correcters...always...I was always corrected. If I correct him, then I'm being argumentative. He will explode. He used to explode more at my mom, but she passed away a year ago. But the arguing over opinions is crazy...and it's mostly the temperature in his apartment or outside. He will crank the heat to 95...and if I say it's hot (and it's 90 outside) he'll say there is something wrong with me. I know he's old..I do tell him he feels temperature differently than I..instead of accepting that, he talks down to me saying I am wrong..my feeling of hot is wrong. My dog, and I are both panting..but he's right. 95 in house..turning on heat in July in Virginia! When there is a heat wave. Argh..and we argue every other fact. Like where the lawyer's office is. I'm showing him on map..driving us there, as he's telling me I'm wrong. I'm not. It's ongoing. Hang in there. You are more saintly than I.

An easy statement "your right about that".

I have been reading most of the responses regarding your issue and agree with most of them. It is a hard situation for everyone involved. I will be buying a couple of the books suggestions myself. However, as difficult as it may be, try to put yourself in your mothers shoes.... She doesn't drive, cook, clean, do laundry, etc anymore. What else is there to do? Her life is not the independent life she used to have. What is keeping her active? (Sounds like the arguments is what she is looking forward to because that is what's getting your attention) My mom also makes comments about me thinking she "is stupid". In this day and age of technology, she can't understand what a voicemail is or why she can't hear the message when someone leaves one on her "voicemail". She still thinks she has an answering machine. She lives alone at 85 (independent living) for now but I know it won't be long before I will be making a decision in the next step on what to do with her. She will be one that will kick and scream and hate me because of what I will be forced to do since she refuses to "live with her kids". I won't go into detail about my issue, but know that there are options. It used to be that we needed a little help,whether it was a book or others that have gone through what we are going through, with our first baby. Now, it's with our aging parent(s). It comes full circle. I don't correct my mom when she obviously has meant something else; cat instead of dog, etc. That would certainly start an argument, for now I know that I catch myself doing that myself and I also realize that she just wants conversation. So, I decipher what she's trying to say and ask questions about her younger days and experiences. I sit at the kitchen table and give her my undivided attention for a little while and just listen and every once in a while, I ask a question or two.

The most wonderful thing about this site is sharing with many who have been where you are. My mother was not under the same roof, thank the dear Lord!
But we found an answer. I made sure her Dr. knew what I was dealing with and the negativity and rages I’d had to listen to from her. Also, with dementia she needed to go to the bathroom every 5 mins., not true! Or she’d tell him she had 3 strokes. Not true. It’s so important to go to the Dr. with her and know what’s being said. My mom’s Dr. told me he’d treat her for depression (a happy pill). The low dose did nothing and he gradually raised it to 100 mg.
At last she became pleasant, easy to help and grateful!!
I hope this helps, because it will most likely get worse for her and for you.
God bless you!!

I'm sorry things with your mom aren't well. Perhaps speak to her doctor see if there is an underlined reason for her behavior. And mood swings. Other wise agree with her is your best bet. Good luck also it's ok to vent that's how you can possibly prevent caregiver burn out. Which I'm at because my father didn't give me a chance to properly grieve my mom cause he decided a week to the day later he didn't want to live anymore. So I have been caring for him for two years. My mom was an angel to care for he's terrible.

I also felt this could be a conversation in my house. I guess what I know should be said and what I say are not always the same.
Cooler?
Yes, it is, but I've been running around so much, I'm hot!
Catfood?
I'lI put it on the note.
Writing it gives me time and energy to think what I should say. In the heat of the moment, I don't always feel the energy to respond in a positive manner.
Nothing that comes out of my mil's mouth is positive. She has always been a negative person and now it is much worse.
Adult daycare has been a Godsend. Now I feel I have a bit more to give without going crazy.

Dear Trainer,

Every time I read posts related to this type of behavior in our elderly loved ones, I wish I could help other caregivers to reach an understanding I reached through simply realizing that my mom is no longer how she was before and it is not something she can control. When your mom acts like that she is not deliberately trying to treat you and your family badly, she simply cannot help herself.

In her mind you REALLY are trying to contradict her and point out she is wrong. So, she feels attacked, she feels like it is the world against her, she feels diminished and treated like a child. Her reaction is therefore permanently defensive.
If you felt like that, how would you react? Wouldn’t you be permanently irritated?

It is so important to understand that she cannot change, but YOU can! and should. Simply, 1) go with the flow. If she says it is cold, just say something like: Do you want a sweater mom? (Because she really feels cold!) 2) if you forget not to challenge something she says or if she simply out of the blue reacts as if feeling attacked, please don’t engage in an argument, nor explain your reasoning how you did saying the appointment was in your calendar, etc, etc...if she says “I know”, just say good mom! With love, or change the subject very naturally.

Someone mentioned that they think their parent even has conversations in their head and therefore reacts in consequence to how those mental conversations went...that’s very possible! Not necessarily conversations but the parent may “picture” you reacting a certain way, even if that didn’t happen at all, and they will hold resentment for what they felt you did to them. It’s complicated and weird, but a person that has committed to caregiving and that does it out of love and wants to continue doing it, needs to realize they need to change their interactions with the loved one and realize it is not a “normal” mind what they are dealing with, therefore feeling offended or engaging in arguments won’t derive anything positive! On the other hand, will leave the elder feeling more resentful and making the situation worse.

Keep in mind, they don’t necessarily remember things how they actually happened, they remember WHAT AND HOW THEY FELT. And what they felt can be miles divorced from your intention or your actual actions.

You might be thinking “well, then this assumes my mom is crazy”. She is not crazy, her mind is very tired. Treat her with consideration. Have a serious conversation with your husband and daughter and explain this, that they need to change too, and more importantly not take what she says at heart.

Also consider that she might react better and behave differently with a third person, an outsider, than you three. So, hiring external help for a couple of days a week might be a great relief for you and for her too. Also, as a family you need to determine if you are able and willing to commit to being caregivers to a person that is different than the loving mom you remember; it is a serious commitment that is only possible if the understanding that it is you who needs to change is reached, along with a large dosage of love and patience, because we are human beings and we struggle to always remember not to take it personally. But it is definitely possible, with a lot of love and a true reassessment of your life and priorities.

Good luck and a hug, to you and to your mom!

trainermom:
You and your family have been dealing with someone who is not the same as they were years ago.. For whatever reason, Mom has changed.
Finding out if her behavior can be modified is important, but.....YOU all will have to find a way to think like your MOM.  You love her so much, that is apparent in your actions.  However, if there is to be peace and love in your home, you all will have to come up with some things to say when you don't agree with her.. Things that do not ask for a reply from her...
OK   "Its colder out today than yesterday"  Gee you think so? OR I hadn't realized that! OR I am just right, but I can get a sweater for you, MOM!
Yes, I know it seems like we are catering to them, but when your blood slows down, you Are cold easier, with inactivity that is worse.
Not having had either of my folk in my home to live, I could just limit my visits to AL for a couple of hours and I always left on a good "note". 
Your situation is more intense. 
All those posters who admonished  you and your family to take care of yourselves, too.  They were being very loving to you b/c they have been there!!
God Bless!!

I'm honestly shocked by how many of these replies sound fairly critical and unsympathetic to OP and her family. They are doing the best they can and she came here because she needed to talk and be heard: not lectured. I think many of us can understand where you are with your mom. The fact is that caregiving can and does destroy some families, leaving them divided and fractured. And as the child of the person being cared for, you feel guilty that your spouse and children have to shoulder this burden with you as well. But don't carry it alone. They love you and will help you while you help your mother. I suggest seeking a helper or aide a few days a week for your sanity alone. I have one and when she is here, go to my room and decompress, don't think about my mother or her care, read, write, shower or nap. But listen, you are human. You will get frustrated, get angry, get your feelings hurt. You are not a machine. And anyone that lectures you differently happens to be having a decent day where they feel superior. Talk to them on one of the crappy days when life as a caregiver is a true struggle. When your mom is behaving this way, don't engage. If she is feeling frustrated and angry already, you don't want to escalate her behavior. We want her calm and peaceful. A polite agreement is truly the way to go. It will keep her placated and help you keep your sanity. The anger she is displaying is indeed due to the fact that portions of her brain are shrinking and dying. If she was already negative to begin this, you are in for a challenge beyond measure as the disease progresses. But try your best not to take it in and not take it personally or it will destroy you. Don't let that happen because you are too valuable for that. You matter. I heard every word you said and felt the emotion behind your frustration. I know how hard it is. I know you love your mom. And I know you are doing your best. Hang in there.