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in these accounts? He is already on a joint checking account which I understand is now legally his money. There is a lot of money involved here and I am getting nervous.
Oh Madge, I feel your pain. For many years my Mom was handing funds over to the sib as a bail out for one catastrophe or another. She promised me each time that she would stop doing it...but continued. It really is a compulsion with her....she can't help herself. And I know if I needed money, she would hand it right over to me. The difference between me and the sib is that after I turned 20 I considered myself an adult and did not want to impose on my family relationships. The sib went the other way. One time Mom secretly tried to give the sib money, but the bank notified me because we were all on the account. I just cried. I called her and told her to never go behind my back again. She said okay, then my sib had her open up a charge card acct. and take out a large cash advance which was never paid back. Was she sad that I was upset? Nooooo. The NPD personality has strong self-preservation instincts...everyone else is on her own. So the next time I visited her, I became her POA and everything has to go through me now. I pay her bills and take care of other financial things. And when the time comes, her assets (which do not amount to a lot) will be divided equally as she intended. I have no attachment to money and things, I just wanted to make sure that everything she has goes toward her care. I know for a fact that she would do the same things today. If you understand that it is a behavioral issue, you can tackle the problem more objectively. Also, in some families where the boys "rule," women are relegated to the grunge work and men are handed the financial caretaking - because ya' know, men are so much smarter than women. Do you think this is the problem with your Mom? Are you able to visit her face to face and confront these issues calmly with her? It could be that she thinks your bro is going to do the right thing after she is gone. He may or may not. She may not want to deal with this at her stage in life and becomes obstinate. She may favor your brother (happens all the time) or feel that he deserves or needs more. That is why I always advise young parents to treat their children equally. Do not give more money to one child than another - same with the wills, etc. Do not fund your adult children until they turn 90. Once they reach adulthood they are on their own. If you still want to "loan" them money, make it a financial and legal arrangement with a payback schedule. If they default, NEVER lend to them again because you are indirectly punishing the responsible children. Plan for your own elderhood and let your kids be those nice people who visit you. Madge...I hope things work out...let us know...Lilli
Lilliput, Let's just start with the initial break down of a basically dysfunctional family. Just before Dad died, I mean weeks, I suggested to my brother that Mom have all her ducks in a row, POA, will etc. Didn't have a clue what my Mom and Dad had financially. She gave in when my brother talked to her but insisted I be told nothing. It seems my Dad had told her I came to him for money, get this "to feed my kids". Now, my husband is a professional with a good job, we lived in a nice home and had alot of money in the bank. The problem had been me venting to Mom about how cheap my husband is (my mistake), and he is. HOWEVER, this should have had nothing to do with me being included in the financial planning of my parents. Yes my brother is the big cheese because he is male and we are southern (says alot), and he is full of himself. I have confronted Mom several times over that past four years about leaving me out and how hurt I am. She doesn't care and my brother just says "that's the way she wants it". So.... he will take care of her, this is the guy who lives 5 miles from her and won't even do one single chore for her. She can hire it out, he says. He has two homes, his wife has had good inheritance and new cars, also good jobs. I have warned both my brother and Mom not to put all your eggs in one basket. I will not go for guardianship if he dies, I tild Mom this as well. She will be a ward of the state and they will plow through her money like gangbusters. She still won't budge. So I am dealing with a personality disorder and a pumped up ego on my brothers part. I have three lawyers (daughter, two son-in-laws) who will be glad to give me council if I should need it. And my brother knows it.
It's your mom's money and she can do whatever she wants to do with it. On the other hand if your mom has diminished mental capacity and your mom putting your brother on all her accounts is the product of undue influence, you can challenge that in court. You should talk to an attorney where your mom lives who specializes in this area if you think your brother is getting mom to do things she doesn't really want to do. Based on what I've read on this thread, your mom is in control of her faculties and everything she did is "legal."
JeffKent, thank you for informing me that this is Mom's money and she can do what she wants with it. I don't believe I ask that question. As many on this site, I ask a simple question and get a lecture. My Mom has been cruel to me. It is not about money. She can give my brother everything she has, I can sue (Ihave three attorneys in my family).
You can basically do whatever you want in this world, but you do have to suffer the consequences. Sometimes those consequences are not pretty.
I'm not sure if your reply to my comment is sarcastic or sincere. I do recognize the first part of my response is not directly related to your original question. I think your original question was answered in the thread, and I didn't want to repeat what was already said.
I did, however, take the time to read through some 32 replies to your original question including your comments. My comment certainly stated the obvious, but it also added to the discussion by raising "sufficient mental capacity" and "undue influence" to the discussion. Those 2 issues do directly impact on your original question.
I'm an attorney and I, in fact, had a similar case where a family member who lived close to and who took care of the elderly person was put on all the legal documents to receive all the elderly persons money/property. The other family member took her (the new *beneficiary*) to court alleging "diminished mental capacity" and "undue influence" by a care giver challenging the new legal documents. Everybody in that case said, "It's not about the money." I couldn't figure out what it was about if it wasn't about the money. Something tells me that if she didn't have anything nobody would have filed a court case.
I hope you truly appreciate the time I took to read through the thread and give you my input. On the other hand I don't mean to get into your business if you don't want me to. I simply responded to a question/thread on a public forum on the internet.
Thanks JeffKent, Of course your clients wouldn't have filed a court case if there was no money. The problem is what is perceived as unfairness. Try, if you have little children, giving one $20.00 and the other nothing. See how well that goes. We may be adults but our feelings are deep rooted.
Yes, a parent can leave all their money to one child, play favorites all day long. But what kind of legacy does this leave. My husbands father left a large estate, equally divided, and all four children are happy and friendly with one another. He was always open and thoughtful with his children. Made sure they could survive in the world and yet have a soft place to fall. My problem is I have no soft place to fall, it is nothing to do with money.
However for the law profession (and i have a daughter, and a son-in-law who are corporate attorneys in Boston, as well as a son-in-law in Family Law)it is good to have the dysfunctional family don't you think? Keeps business going. Thanks for you input.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
So the next time I visited her, I became her POA and everything has to go through me now. I pay her bills and take care of other financial things. And when the time comes, her assets (which do not amount to a lot) will be divided equally as she intended. I have no attachment to money and things, I just wanted to make sure that everything she has goes toward her care.
I know for a fact that she would do the same things today. If you understand that it is a behavioral issue, you can tackle the problem more objectively. Also, in some families where the boys "rule," women are relegated to the grunge work and men are handed the financial caretaking - because ya' know, men are so much smarter than women. Do you think this is the problem with your Mom?
Are you able to visit her face to face and confront these issues calmly with her? It could be that she thinks your bro is going to do the right thing after she is gone. He may or may not. She may not want to deal with this at her stage in life and becomes obstinate. She may favor your brother (happens all the time) or feel that he deserves or needs more.
That is why I always advise young parents to treat their children equally. Do not give more money to one child than another - same with the wills, etc. Do not fund your adult children until they turn 90. Once they reach adulthood they are on their own. If you still want to "loan" them money, make it a financial and legal arrangement with a payback schedule. If they default, NEVER lend to them again because you are indirectly punishing the responsible children.
Plan for your own elderhood and let your kids be those nice people who visit you.
Madge...I hope things work out...let us know...Lilli
You can basically do whatever you want in this world, but you do have to suffer the consequences. Sometimes those consequences are not pretty.
I did, however, take the time to read through some 32 replies to your original question including your comments. My comment certainly stated the obvious, but it also added to the discussion by raising "sufficient mental capacity" and "undue influence" to the discussion. Those 2 issues do directly impact on your original question.
I'm an attorney and I, in fact, had a similar case where a family member who lived close to and who took care of the elderly person was put on all the legal documents to receive all the elderly persons money/property. The other family member took her (the new *beneficiary*) to court alleging "diminished mental capacity" and "undue influence" by a care giver challenging the new legal documents. Everybody in that case said, "It's not about the money." I couldn't figure out what it was about if it wasn't about the money. Something tells me that if she didn't have anything nobody would have filed a court case.
I hope you truly appreciate the time I took to read through the thread and give you my input. On the other hand I don't mean to get into your business if you don't want me to. I simply responded to a question/thread on a public forum on the internet.
Yes, a parent can leave all their money to one child, play favorites all day long. But what kind of legacy does this leave. My husbands father left a large estate, equally divided, and all four children are happy and friendly with one another. He was always open and thoughtful with his children. Made sure they could survive in the world and yet have a soft place to fall. My problem is I have no soft place to fall, it is nothing to do with money.
However for the law profession (and i have a daughter, and a son-in-law who are corporate attorneys in Boston, as well as a son-in-law in Family Law)it is good to have the dysfunctional family don't you think? Keeps business going. Thanks for you input.