I have to stop letting mom affect me emotionally, but how?

Oh my, Barbara. Such powerful words from CM. Please listen and abide by them.

Barbara, I've described on other threads how my own mother was a black hole of negativity. Truly, I do feel for you. It sucks you in, drains you of energy and optimism and spits you out, a nervous wreck, the other side.

She "can't" go to the senior centre because she doesn't have clothes that fit… Oh my word. Suppose anybody else apart from your mother told you that? Wouldn't you say "what absolute baloney! Is this a senior centre or a fashion parade?"

My mother wanted more than almost anything to have her family round for meals regularly. Truth is she was a terrible cook, but the real reason it didn't happen more often was not that we couldn't rise above the odd scorched potato. The real reason was that she sat in her house longing for us to invite ourselves. In spite of years of repeated experiments, it never quite dawned on her that if she wanted us to come round she needed to pick up the phone and ask us over. She 'couldn't' do that. Why not? Oh no. Just couldn't. Shudder.

The self isolation… My mother had mostly very nice neighbours. She knew all of their children's birthday dates, too, and would get them little gifts. But invite these nice people in for a cup of coffee? Have an everyday chat on the doorstep? Oh dear me no! She couldn't possibly.

There is a nameless dread somewhere at the bottom of all this. A fear that something terrible will happen, an expectation that anything you do is bound to fail.

Now listen. You are in some danger of following this pattern. I know, because so am I. But you and I are not doomed, and we don't have to be. Bad habits need breaking. Start looking out for the ones you might be repeating, and get help to get rid of them.

Right, Barbara. HER negativity, and probably a touch of lifelong mental illness. You can point all this out to her doctor and to APS ( yes, i know you contacted them already) in writing and explain that you are far way with issues of your own and cannot get her or your brother's cooperation.

Put this all in writing to her doctor and aps and mail it return reciept. You've notified the proper folks of your mom's vulnerability.

Go back to therapy and learn to give up both the guilt and the worry that your mom WON'T LET YOU HELP.

I will think about going back to therapy. Mom lives in the suburbs. She isolated herself. Couldn't let people come to house cause it looks like a wreck. From brother with all his junk in living room. Had no clothes that fit so she couldnt go to senior center. She never learned to drive. Etc, Etc. The pharmacy she uses won't deliver unless she is ordering a perscription drug. Don't know if anyone else will. Her atomatic and extreme negativity keeps her from taking advantage of what few options she does have.

Barbara, if none of the options I listed are available in your mother's location, I take it she lives in a very small town or rural community. I am a city kid, but I have relatives on farms and in small towns. Based on that exposure I'd say there is usually a very strong sense of community and social networking in such places -- far more than I see in the city. People help each other -- even people who don't particularly like each other. They show up for each other's baby showers and graduations and funerals. Organizations such as churches and the senior center and the kitchen band have strong bonds.

If your mother is in a city, my suggestions work. If she is not in a city, how come she has not fit in to the community -- or at least one of the social/civic/religious groups? How has she become so isolated? Might it be because other people are afraid of her son and tend to shy away?

It seems to me that your mother is in a heart-breaking situation. She has a mentally ill son. She wants to protect him but at the same time she is afraid of him, apparently afraid of what he might no if she cracks one of those eggs she is tiptoeing around on. How very, very sad.

But she also has a daughter will physical issues and an anxiety disorder. She seems not to recognize a parental need to be protective of that child. Maybe she has used up her full quota of protectiveness with the son.

In any case, here is what I see:

You grew up in a dysfunction household. (Not Your Fault)
Your brother is mentally ill (which was part of the dysfunction at home). Not Your Fault.
Your parents and now your mother doesn't see to know how to relate to your brother in an effective and loving way that might help him. Not Your Fault.
You have seen lots of "worry-wart" behavior in your mother over the years. Not Your Fault.
Your mother, although a widow, has not (can not?) reached out to become a part of her community. She seems to be isolated. Not Your Fault.

These things are not your fault and you can't solve them. But you can learn to limit the influence they have on your life. Please tell us you will go back into therapy!

You deserve less anxiety and more joy. You deserve fewer guilty feelings and more peace! It is not surprising that this is hard to achieve on your own, given the years (going back to childhood) that this situation has existed.

What I did with my very negative complaining mother might help you. I would time her, then I would say, "Mom, you have been complaining for 15 minutes. Lets talk about something nice, (or great, or newsworthy depending on my day). The first time I did it, it took her about 20 minutes to come up with something, then she said, "So, how are the kids?". If she would keep it up, I would say, "Mom, I have to go, love you". If I was in the car and couldn't get away, I would just repeat, "That is such a downer, let's talk about something nice,". repeat, over and over and over. She finally got the hint. I also told her I didn't want to hear anything bad about my dad, She married him, picked him to be my father, and stayed with him until he died. I didn't choose him to be my dad, she did, and I didn't want to hear her say anything bad against him. He was a pretty good dad and loved me much. Ever so often she would start on him and I would just look at her and she would say, "Oh, that's right, you don't want to hear anything bad about him" in a snarky voice. I would just say that is right. Maybe what I and others did will give you some examples you could modify and try on your own mother.

"If she won't take the options she does have to help her, I'm going to try not to feel bad for her." Apple - Tree

I actually only go see her twice a year for the last seven years. Except for when I have had to visit in hospital or stay with her few days after she got out of hospital. But that was only a few times. Used to go once a month. Before dad died. When he was in hospital and died I got infection and was hospitalized. It was over seven months before I could drive again. And I was scared to drive so far after not driven at all for so long. Husband took me to see mom once or twice after I could walk with out aid. So I drove up for birthday and mothers day so close. that both are celebrated together. And kept saying I was busy after that. Had to come for Hanukah. Got into a routine of only going twice a year.
Now I want to go four times a year so I can check on her. I do talk to her every few days. And have been through listening to her constant problems forever. Helped her get new home insurance, buying clothes, sauce pan, underware, sweaters, etc. Made plenty of phone calls to straighten things out for her since her hearing aid busses
when she uses phone, provided moral support during the two lawsuits against her. Lots of other things that can be done long distance.
She is rigid. Always has been. She is also afraid of brother but also protective of him.
Neighbor is really not very nice. But if mom had no other options I believe she should try the neighbor anyway.

… some years? Oh yes. How you feel about your mother is something that, for everyone, has developed over a whole lifetime, of course. You're not doing anything wrong or strange. You love your mother, she does have problems, you can't not worry about her. The only thing you need to do is harden your nose about how you respond, and how your response affects you. It's a matter of drawing a bold line between things you can help, and things you can't.

But Barbara, on the contrary, *all* of Jeanne's suggestions would work where your mother lives. What makes them not work is that your mother doesn't like them, or doesn't want to make the small effort involved. And that is to do with her: her personality, her world view.

Again, I sympathise with your mother. I can understand her reluctance to develop relationships with outsiders or newcomers, or to ask for help from someone (your brother) who is grumpy or difficult about it. But it's up to her, you know. Perhaps one thing you can do is remind her that there are options which aren't really all that difficult or uncomfortable, and try to help her get over the negative expectations she has that tell her nothing will work and all she can do is endure.

You see, she doesn't depend on you, does she, not really. She unloads on you, sure; but when you try to do something to help her - the PT, the bills - she sabotages you. She messes up the appointment. She doesn't do the basic things, like make one call to the utilities company, that would make it simple for you to deal with her account. She's not really expecting you to solve her difficulties. Every time you end up with a mess on your hands, it confirms what she already believes - that no one can help her.

So when you suggest something and she has a dozen reasons ready for why your suggestion is hopeless, respond by saying pleasantly "up to you, mother" or "well, just as you prefer." For example, the neighbour who isn't very nice - is she really nasty enough to refuse to add Tylenol to her grocery list? Don't let your mother's perspective distort your own expectations of what ordinary, everyday people can reasonably be asked to do.

I dont want her to depend on me so much. All your options won't work where mom lives. Unless there is a pharmacy that will deliver without you ordering a prescription. And she only knows one neighbor and she isnt very nice. But you are right. She does have a few options besides me. Though one is only once a week. Its hard to let her suffer but I have had it. If she won't take the options she does have to help her, I'm going to try not to feel bad for her. It's just hard to do. Especially since this has been going on for some years.

Barbara, I'm trying to think what I would do if I were in pain, unable to drive, and out of Tylenol. Here are some things that come to mind:

1) locate a pharmacy that delivers
2) locate a grocery store that delivers, and get my food shopping in addition to the Tylenol
3) call one of the neighbors who is always saying "let me know if I can do anything" and ask, "You don't need to make a special trip, but next time you are out, could you pick up some Tylenol for me. You can stop by and pick up the money first, if you like."
4) See if the neighbor boy would like to earn a couple bucks by going on his bike to the drug store for me
5) Find a courier or cab company that does pickup and delivery.

Of course, I wouldn't have to resort to any of those things because I have a wonderful daughter sharing my house and she would go in a flash! But if I couldn't count on that (say she was out of town for a week) and I was in pain, I'm glad to know I could figure out how to get what I need.

So ... am I just so very much smarter than your mother? I sincerely doubt it. You can sympathize with her on the phone. She has lots of options faster and more sensible than expecting you to deliver an easily available OTC medicine. Stop enabling her to depend on you.

But I think that is what you want to do, right? The question is how. And I think the answer may be in engaging in some therapy. You deserve peace in your life!

I was where you are with my mother except she was close by. You do need to get into therapy today or sooner. Remember just because someone throws you a ball (worry, chore, whatever) you don't have to catch it. Your husband can't make you drive up to your mother's. If he is that worried, let him drive up. He is probably just tired of hearing about it. I had lot of therapy learning to deal with my mother who didn't drive, never drove, wouldn't learn. Each case is different and everyone here has marvelous ideas, go with their advice, it is all very good.

Barbara; Until you can get an appointment to see a therapist, I want you to find two things.

The first is the serenity prayer. Google it, print it out and read it, out loud 5 times a day until you start to take it in. There are things you cannot change and one of them is your mother's way of being.


The second thing is, I want you to notice, for one entire day, how many times you say or think "might" "ought" " "should have". Write down each thing that you connect to these words. these are the things that you are worrying, possibly needlessly, about. Writing them down gives them some form. Sometimes on paper, you can laugh at them, sometimes solutions present themselves.

There's a drug store that delivers, yes? If your mother can call you, she can order some Tylenol, can't she.

It certainly is going to take time, Barbara. Of course it is. Your reaction to your mother's conversations with you is natural, as well as habitual. You hear someone is in pain, or needs something, well of course your reaction is to want to try to help! It's only a question of what you can do to help, and really all you can do is sympathise, and really that's all she needs from you.

I wonder. Do you think it's that your brother would, seriously, refuse to pop out to the store for some Tylenol, or is it that your mother baulks at asking him to do it? Or a bit of both? Whatever, this is for them to sort out between them, there's nothing much you can do about either person's attitude; but if you think it's possible that your mother is the one being negative or stubborn then you can at least encourage her to be more relaxed about asking him. Whether or not she will, though… and whether or not she'll take Tylenol as her doctor recommends… that's different! But not something you can change for her.

How do I turn it off? I know intellectually, that keep telling mom my brother can get it doesn't do a thing. She said doctor said she could take tylinol but she's doesn't have any. I said brother can get it. There is drugstore and grosery store five minutes car ride from house. She changed the subject.
I did manage to stay silent during the part of her complaining about the way the home health worker bathed and dressed mom today. She came for the first time. Mom said she would try.her again. I guess its going to take time to quit ingraned habits. Especially since I've had them for years.

Barbara

Barbara, I truly think that you need to re-visit both your psychiatrist and your therapist. You may need better meds, given the increasing demands from your mom, and/ or something different from CBT in order to deal what will only be greater demands as your mother ages.

Barbara, as quick-fix stop-gap, try asking yourself first of all whether what you are about to do will in fact help, or make things worse by being overcomplicated or contradicting something that somebody else is doing or can do.

Your poor mother is in pain, I know - her shoulder must ache constantly, and my goodness it does get a girl down, I can vouch for it. But there's a good example - your wishing you could help is natural, and nice, but a lost cause. You didn't tear the ligament, and you can't mend it any quicker than it's going to mend on its own. All you can do is sympathise.

What do you *like* doing?

I called the billing department of the gas and electric company this morning. Got a nice person who checked to see if the POA papers were received. They were. She agreed to talk to me even though they hadnt input the information in moms account yet. Got it straghtened out.
I do need to work on my own anxiety disorder. Between worrying about mom, husband, and the weather I'm having a hard time. I have meds for my anxiety and they work pretty well. I have had lots of CBT. See a psychiatrist twice a year.
But putting myself first and not feeling I have to do everything mom says or wants help with is a struggle.

Barbara; As someone who use to suffer from dreadful, dreadful anxiety, I have a bit of advice. Your anxiety is looking for a target. It will attach itself to ANYTHING that comes along. It doesn't have to be a bill, a situation, a person. Your anxiety, right now, is part of who you are. You need treatment, and possibly meds to overcome it and to be able to function in a different way.

I'm sure your mother has a "speaker" function on her phone. Have your brother dial, set it to speaker and your mom can speak "hands free".

Now, your job for today is to find a therapist. Call your doctor and get a referral. Or call your insurance company and get a list of mental health providers. Make a short list of those who are geographically convenient and call them to chat and see if you feel comfortable. That's your assignment for today. And please check back in later or tomorrow to let us know.

Let mom take care of her own bills.

Barbara, it is not about the bill. It really and truly isn't. That is where you are focusing your anxiety. Re-read each of CM's answers. I think she is right on target.

I also think her solution is not only best, but may be the only workable solution. You and your mother are so enmeshed in each other's unproductive worries that you take this way of relating to her for granted. And you do not get sufficient support form your husband. (I am going to assume that he is a gem in other ways and has many redeeming qualities. But as support for a loved one with anxiety issues, he sucks.)

You need and you deserve a therapist to help you detach from the distressing parts of your relationships.

Hadnuff. It is just the state of the world that common sense no longer counts for anything.
When it comes to me calling the phone company, with only the husband's name on the account, (they no longer do Mr. and Mrs.!!), they won't talk to me either!

You may have to start to pretend you are Mom when you call up for her.

She was. Now she is in constant pain and its hard. But I got invoved when there problems. Before the injury. I was told by husband a few years ago that if I couldn't get moms hospital bill straight on the phone that I'm going to have to drive up there. He doesn't know how anxious I get. And definitely doesn't understand. Even when I explain.
Im going to try to fix things from my home. If I cant I will tell mom that brother has to dial and hold phone till person comes on phone. Then she can talk. She can't hold phone very long with the injury. I know she will say he won't. But I'll say he has to.

If her mind is fine let her pay the bills herself?

Now why would your husband tell you to do that? If we on the forum know that even the thought of the long drive to your mother's house sends you into a panic, surely to God he must.

They might have returned the check because it was an overpayment; or it might be that they returned it because many utilities companies are going paperless - even here in the UK, where we're still living in the steam age, they're trying to get rid of old-fashioned paper bills and payments. They might have your mother's address registered as commercial property if anyone ever ran a business from the home, or it might be an administrative error. There could be any number of reasons. But in the end none of them is important. Your mother is not going to fail to pay her bill, and the company is not going to disconnect her services. And your husband is not going to stand over you and make you drive into the night on the freeway when your heart rate is already going nineteen to the dozen.

This is not about the bill. This is about the stress of trying to help your mother when it's impractical for you to do so.

One possible short cut for you to try tomorrow, if it'll help: your mother can authorise the utilities company to speak to you. She would have to call them. She would need to have her bill in front of her. She should highlight the account number so that she can find it easily when they ask her for it. She should give them your name and telephone number, and state explicitly that she is giving them permission to talk to you about her bills.

Now I am guessing that your mother won't want to do that. In which case, she's not that worried about being disconnected. In which case, neither should you be.

Why were you paying these bills online previously? Was there a problem? And if not, why not do that again, and let your mother give you a check to cover the amount?

You don't need them to tell you anything. You are giving them information - that they need to make a note on your mother's account that payment is in process and that any action they might have been considering against her service should be suspended pending that process. That's all.

I am upset that my husband might tell me to drive myself to moms and stay on the phone till the gas company answers so mom can tell them to talk to me or change the account from commercial to personal. I think thats why the company rejected the check. The recording said something about not taking personal payment anymore. Don't know who told company it was commercial property.

Barbara

It actually is about the bill. I have tried to get the gas and electric company to talk to me. I called two different numbers. They wont tell me anything. I took a bubble bath to calm down.

Please listen to CM, Barbara. Either go back to your old therapist, or find a new one. You're going to stress yourself into very ill health very quickly living this way.

It's nothing to do with the gas bill, or the POA documents, or the "missed" phone calls, or anything in the material world, is it. As you say in your headline, it's about your mother jerking you around so that you're constantly dancing, and how you cut those puppet strings.

What does your husband think? What do your friends say? How would *you* like things to be?

Meanwhile, rather waiting up - waiting up??? - for 48 hours, give the utilities company a call and speak to customer service. You don't need their approval of POA to provide them with information about your mother's account. Then let it be until they have run their process. They are not going to disconnect your mother's services because there will be a holding note on her account on the database. Rest your mind.

Now. I don't mean this to sound harsh, and I don't want you to take it the wrong way. I just want you to consider the possibility.

Your mother's two phone calls. She rang first time because she "thought you might have rung." Fair enough, she thought she heard the phone ringing, missed the call (if there even was one), went on to imagine it might have been you, called you back. So far so good. Then when you didn't call back, she no doubt started imagining all kinds of vivid reasons for that. Was your call about an accident?! Were you not ringing back because you were in traction in hospital?? Has somebody had a heart attack??? So that's why she sounded stern on her second voicemail - she had made herself worry. Not the pronouns there: SHE had made HERSELF worry. Not you. You hadn't done a solitary thing. Except go out for a little while, as one does.

But she managed - AGAIN, if I may say so - to pass on the tizzy. She spends time worry about imagined disasters. She hands over to you. You spend time imagining disasters. Apple… tree.

There is nothing surprising, and there is nothing wrong either, about a person taking after her own mother. I just wonder if you've ever thought that, actually, you're quite alike?

Except that you love your mother. You're not quite so nice to yourself, you know.

But yes, you're right, you need the "how" answers. This is about recognising and breaking thought patterns and behavioural habits. Which is much easier to do with the guidance of a good, disciplined, focused therapist.

Decide how you would like things to be. Well, I say decide: think about it. Picture dealing calmly and efficiently with her utilities bills - or even, seeing as your mother is competent and your brother is in the home, politely declining to be involved in dealing with any of her bills at all, though let's not try to run before we can walk. Think about being able to call her sympathetically about her worry that she'd missed your call, and explaining that when you nod off during the day you might think you've heard the phone ring too. Think about being able to set her mind at rest, and doing the same for yourself.

Those things, or others that you feel are important, are your goals. Then you pick the therapist who seems to be the best fit with achieving them. That's how.

The sooner you start, the sooner you'll feel better. It's got to be worth a try?

My brother lives with her. But even before that no social worker would do anything. Her mind is fine. Ever sicia worker tells me mom is allowed to make her own dissisions. Even if they are stupid or not in her best interest.