Suspect Disability Fraud. What is the right thing to do?

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Suspect Disability Fraud. What is the right thing to do?

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Have any of you ever reported a sibling for their own SSI disability fraud? This would be related to learning that he/she has worked with some consistency despite a disability claim, concealed assets and traded securities in elder parents names or potentially failed to report income to Social Security, in violation of SSI limits. There could also be inappropriate use of the elders Social Security income.

I am grappling with the responsibility we all have to ensure the integrity and viability of the Social Security system. Versus the harm that could be felt by the elders themselves if the person they have enabled (perhaps knowingly in some cases, clearly unknowingly in others) is found to have broken the law.

There is also the risk that this is not "provable" - that a person who deals in cash only, puts assets in others names, etc. will not be found to have broken the law. I've seen a few of you have posted about an outcome like this. In which case the situation is inflamed without any productive result (for the individuals OR the health of the social security system).

Thanks in advance for sharing your wisdom.

Disabled Frauds & Scams Government Benefits

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Your not gonna like my answer, I suspect.

But, seriously?!?

Your “responsibility we all have to ensure the integrity and viability of the Social Security system.”

Kinda sounds like an excuse and/or justification to bust a sibling that you have an issue with - for right or for wrong.

Your turning your sibling in will cause all kinds of hard feelings - understatement - and likely cause a rift that will be irreversible. And - in the long run your “efforts” will have no impact on the Social Security Administration.

Is it really worth it? I say MYOB in this situation.

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LOL, I don't mind your answer Rainmom, thank you for sharing it. I'm unoffendable.

One case clearly will not have an impact on how this huge federal agency runs. But if we all simply turn the other cheek when we learn of potential abuse, what then?

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If they worked where SS was deducted, SS will find out. A letter will be sent asking why they had income. If they can't justify it, then they will be penalized. I THINK its 100 taken out of SS for every 200 earned. If under the table, hard to prove. Someone on SSD is allowed to make about 14k over and above SSD.
Now the misuse of parents SS is another thing. He may need to prove how their money was spent. This is fraud.

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Thanks for the input JoAnn. The work is all off the books, never a typical job. Those require background checks which uncover things like.... outstanding arrest warrants. ;/ I'm aware some income is allowed. And it's still a very meager living, a troubled and sad situation all around. This isn't like those large company disability insurance scams with inflated claims that end up costing all of us millions.

Re. the parents' SS, I'm also concerned that if they need Medicaid down the line the lookback will bite them (on top of needing it sooner than they otherwise would).

Thank you.

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Brother had to have applied for and provided proof that he has the need for SSDI. This must be signed by a physician thus not arbitrary. Are you prepared to present evidence that your brother no longer needs SSDI....how? With all transactions “under the table”, no traceable receipts, etc. Conjecture & hearsay.

Is it worth it for you? Because you are concerned about the SS system? Hmmmm

Recipients of SSDI get a meager amount of supplemental income. Speaking from experience here. That’s why they are allowed to augment and make up to $14K. The amount is nowhere near full SS.

I wouldn’t go there if I were you. You’ll cause years of strife between you & your sibling.

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Thanks Shane, good advice.

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Who is POA of your parent's affairs?

I would let go of how sibling's handling his own affairs, yet NOT when he/she "uses" your parent's names in any way that might backfire on them, esp if they are unable to approve what sibling is doing.

I would consult Adult Services and ask how you can protect them.
If they don't have the answers, find an elder lawyer for a consultation. Usually the first one is free.

All the best!

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Thank you Savitaa. I was, but brother is now. That was changed a few years ago by his direction, and it was then that I learned he was registering cars in their names among other things. The distinction you draw - ignoring HIS stuff and focusing on when he is using them, is a good one in theory (and still works for his SSI qualification). In this case there is some conflation of affairs, which makes it a bit more challenging.

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Janeinspain, I relate to your impulse, I know a guy who is on full disability and yet
travels the globe on monthly vacations to his multiple time shares and spends the rest of his time on shopping sprees, facials, mani pedis, massages you name it.
I've felt frustrated finding out how common this is. Once you have a qualifying event, you can get on disability and stay on as long as you fly under the radar
which doesn't appear difficult to do.

I get the MYOB advice, and think it is probably well advised, but all these folks that are milking the system will have serious effects for our own SS when it's our turn
Pretty much guaranteed 25-30% cut in benefits by 2030 (been told this by people in the agency) We will probably wish there had been better oversight when it's our turn to receive benefits. I haven't had a real vacation in years (a day or two here or there) and it's hard to swallow that there are so many folks on extended vacations throughout their lives due to SS fraud. Just sayin.

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Thank you bettina, It is hard to swallow. And I totally agree with you about what is coming. While I've paid into the system ever since I started working, I've never really trusted that I could count on it. As the baby boom moves through the SS system I think any of us Gen X or later are going to be screwed over, even if there wasn't fraud occurring.

I'm going to sit on the impulse for now. The situation is complex and I don't have clarity.

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You can report your sibling anonymously. I see no reason not to. But don’t expect anything to come of it. Unfortunately many of these agencies find it cheaper to let things go, rather than investigate them. I’ve reported my late MIL’s former “spouse” and his son for IHSS/welfare fraud twice & provided proof that he’s submitting a fraudulent time card every month while NOT partaking in ANY caregiving duties.....and he continues to collect a check every month. It is because of the cost involved in investigating these kinds of cases & how hard they are to prove. His is an easy case though which ticks me off. All they have to do is look at his employment records for a 2 year period and see that while he was supposedly working as his sons caregiver, he was actually working as a courier! I can also prove he was on vacation with my family for a week, a week in which he submitted false hours for. If they watched his sons house for a week and then looked at the time sheet, they would see that he fraudulently claimed to have worked those house because they would have seen for themselves that he never once went to that house. He won’t set foot in the house actually. Because he can’t stand his sons wife and the house is disgusting because no one cleans it! And they have dogs and he hates animals in the house. I provided my full contract info when I reported it, it would be so easy to prove the fraud. He’s probably fraudulently obtained $60k at least over the years through IHSS fraud.

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Thank you worried, sorry to hear that you've experienced this. Large bureaucracies being what they are, I'm sure there is a cost benefit analysis that drives the decision regarding investigations. But I imagine that some small cases do get reviewed, since none of the SSI payments are large. Anyway, it is infuriating to me that people who can and do work (when they feel like it) take advantage of the system.

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Jane I would simply put it in writing to both your parents and sibling that they should expect no help in caring for your parents in the future. Make it clear that his fraud will come back to bite your parents in terms of eligibility for Medicaid.

It might give your parents food for thought and allow them to initiate a conversation with your brother.

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Thanks for your input Barb, this would be a reasonable option if the situation were not such a complete cluster*$!@ My parents would never initiate such a conversation. They have not been willing to draw a hard line with him on anything since he was a teenager. That is part of my interest in bringing some consequences to bear, from an authority that could actually impose them.

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Dear Jane, it's only a cluster f$ck if you are determined to provide any money or services to them.

Don't. Just make sure that they understand that their actions have consequences. And mean it.

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You're right Barb, and I definitely won't (can't! I have my own family to support!). Thank you.

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Suspect Disability Fraud. What is the right thing to do?

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