This is crazy. Every discussion takes an hour. Any suggestions on communicating with elderly parents?

memorablename: Something seems majorly amiss with your mother failing to look at correspondence/ "envelopes" from her financial institution for one and a half DECADES. How very strange. Also her skin will begin to break down without bathing. Perhaps you can contact the social worker at your town's COA (Council on Aging).

Hi Memorablename :)
Many have offered good advises and hope something will work out in your favour. I was just wondering, mom wants to talk, but you dont have the time for the whole speech, so will getting someone else to listen help? If the someone is inquisitive (like a little child) would be better? So you get to the present in person in the house, while the little one does the listening to grandma? Not sure where to find this little listener or if your mom would feel offended not having an adult listening, but its just something that came to mind. I saw some videos of elderly nursing homes having nursery/kindy kids come over for interaction and it really helps (for some :))

All the best!

Your mom sounds a lot like my mom. For years, my mom would write all kinds of scribbles notes on any type of paper she could get her hands on. She was a hoarder in a sense. You cannot change them, but you have to have patience. I tried following the list of things to say or not say when speaking to her. It helped but requires a lot of patience…whether or not you have time for it is immaterial to them. Take deep breaths and hang in there.

My mom was still living independently at this time last year but was increasingly asking the same questions over again. In May, hospitalized straight from her doctors office with Afib and CHF. Home after a week after refusing to go to rehab and taking 6 new meds. Down to 108 lbs. a month or so later as two meds each caused a loss of appetite. Hospitalized again at the end of September. Refused rehab again. Began refusing to take meds which ended up with a stroke at the end of November, and she died on Dec 1. You never know how long your loved ones will be around. Once they’re gone, there’s no do overs. My mom was 86.

Call dr and ask for in home health care to help her shower. It's very possible she no longer feels quite steady enough or safe doing it alone. She may have had a slip that scared her.

Ask her for her list and read over it yourself. If you have a sibling that isn't doing much in the way of participating, ask that person to call mom on day before or morning that you plan to go there. Mom can read the list to her and can be told that sibling will relay the message of what needs to be done. At least know a few of the things on the list so she doesn't recognize a big fib going on.

Lay out your plan for the day and leave the room to get started. If she starts lecturing, tell her to hold that thought and you'll return to where she is in a little bit. She makes lists because a thought comes to mind and she's afraid she'll forget. It will happen to all of us one day.

If there's a sib, see if they can go on another day that you don't plan to be there. Or have sib go and do some of the work you want done. If you're in a big rush and not really spending any time talking to her, another reason for the list so she can ask everything she's thought off. Try to give her a little time that doesn't involve you hustling all over the house and you can actually sit for a while to talk to her. I'm sure she misses actual time with you.

Old bank accts? slip a few out when you go from the bottom of the stack. Don't make it obvious. If she is really alert about it, get a plastic tub and put in a closet and tell her it's storage for the oldest ones. You could put all kinds of old papers into the 'storage' and she won't start thinking you're trashing her stuff.

Stop playing her games then. If she starts up with the crying and nonsense tell her plainly that you don't care about the lists and refuse to read them.
From what you say here, it's obvious that she cannot live alone anymore. She belongs in assisted living and maybe even memory care.
So put her in one. Look at a few places and ask their administrator about how to go about getting a social worker or a nurse make a home visit to assess her. From what you say with the refusal to shower or wash and the filthy house, she will not pass that assessment and you will be able to place her.
It's for her own good and better to do it now before something bad has to happen.

What if she begins to read her notes and you walk out? Has she always been a controller? Or are her notes because she knows her memory is bad so she feels she has to inform you about everything ? Is she lonely ?
usually dr have a scale/ checklist of when elderly can’t self care or have safety. If you take that to dr he can tell you if she needs to be placed ( the lack of cleaning is safety)
absolutely do kit stay for hours to hear her rant on. You have a life.

Placing her in Assisted Living would free up your schedule and allow you to visit without such frustration and you can quit your parenting class.

She deserves respect and you deserve your freedom: AL would benefit both of you and make it a "win-win" situation. Please contact an Elder Law Attorney to advise you and make an appointment for both of you to meet with a Geriatric Psychiatrist.

You do not have to stay stuck in pain............set yourself free.

* I do not see a diagnosis from a MD provider here. Do you have one? If not, get her assessed.

* This is a never-ending battle if you engage. You cannot argue with a person with (in a stage of) dementia. It will only result in frustration for both of you.

* You do not continue to engage in 'conversation' - it isn't a matter of you winning or her understanding (she won't / doesn't / can't due to brain chemistry changes).

* You need to re-direct conversation, ie., "Yes, I understand you feel XXX. I am doing XXX. What would you like for dinner ... or something relevant to the time of day / situation "are you cold?" - I need to go in the kitchen for a moment (leave).

* Yes, she will burst into tears and react emotionally. She is scared, frustrated, mad, angry, perhaps doesn't understand what is happening to her medically. Through compassionate understanding, you need to take control of the situation and set boundaries (1) do not engage / argue; (2) state situation once / redirect and/or leave (into another room or take 10 minutes - an 1 hour break.

* Take care of yourself. Take caregivers or volunteers (as is appropriate) so you can get needed time off. You need it or you will burn yourself out.

* Realize that even though it may feel sad and difficult for you to set limits, you need to for her sake (and yours). It could be called 'tough love.' It is loving to do what is in your - and her - best interest. You need to keep yourself together to help and support her.

Gena / Touch Matters

I recognize a lot of this. It's rationalization, that somehow if everything else is perfect the shower will happen. She might even believe it in her head. I think to some extent it is easier to understand if we realize how often we do this ourselves in life. The diet/exercise/cleaning/craft/errand/etc. that never seems to happen because of excuses, when really they don't happen because we don't do them.

One think that I have found helpful in dealing with my mother is getting someone to come in from the outside, an aide service through my county. It's only a couple hours twice a week, but mom finds it more difficult to wheedle her way out of these things with someone else. It's literally their job, so there aren't the same buttons to push. You might also talk to her doctor about in home PT or nursing, even if it's just temporary. Outside people are much more difficult to manipulate!

Of course mom will argue against it, assuming it's even a possibility for you. But I would go through the process anyway and just present it as fait accompli. Any assistance like this may involve a waiting list, so it is practical to just go ahead and get the ball rolling.

In the end, you might have to accept that it's just not going to happen sometimes. And that's her choice. Short of dragging her in there, you can't make it happen so why beat your head against the wall over it? It's literally out of your hands if she won't cooperate.

So sorry you are dealing with this, it can be a frustrating and maddening journey. A journey many of us did not want go on. Likely our Loved Ones (LO) did not want to take this journey either and many did no planning for this journey.

My mom -- now 86, w/dementia and a host of other issues and she has been in a nursing home (NH) for 2 plus years -- acted similar. Every discussion was circular and took for ever. Once she explained for a full 2 hours, how to water the plants, in my own home (she lived w/us for a long while before the NH placement). There were only a half dozen plants to water. Any minor task was pure insanity, took for ever. She only let me change her sheets 2 times in nine months; but lived in her bed w/all meals eaten in bed (I had to prepare and bring her every meal) and she had continence issues (can you imagine the hot mess of that bed?).

Sadly, at the time -- this was way before the nursing home placement -- I did not understand dementia, and I was spending hours trying to explain and interact with her as if she was still my rationale, insightful mom. That mom was no longer there.

Once I finally figured that out, it was easier. Not painless, just a bit easier as I gave up trying to explain why something had to be done. I just did it and tried my best to ignore the protestations and the ensuing outburst. Others have said, like with a two year old having a tantrum, not much explaining works with a 2 YO and most parents learn to just do what is best while trying to ignore the meltdown.

Aides can help if there are resources to hire them, do it if you can. This might reduce some of the burden on your end. For bathing -- if your LO is oppositional towards showering -- there are no rise body wash products to wash someone up in right in bed. CleanLife is one, there are many others too. Dry hair shampoo is also an option. Let an aide handle the "washing up" part, sometimes they cooperate more w/a stranger.

W/ my mom; there were times when I wanted to scream. If I was in her room in our house trying to get her to do something and I was loosing my mind trying to get it done or coerce her, I would say I hear my cell phone ringing/left it in the other room. I would go to the basement and actually scream out loud and stay there to cool off. Then I would return with my cool/monotone voice and say, "time to get cleaned up" and just start in. Thankfully my mom was very weak and not physically combative. It was all verbal outbursts, which I just did my best to ignore.

Channel the "patience of Job" if you can. Explanation here if this is not a familiar term: https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/have+the+patience+of+Job

Hope you have a durable financial and medical POA to allow you to help take over on financial and other matters.

Maybe try a few screaming sessions in your basement when no one can hear you. Sounds silly, but it was one way for me to get it out of my system to build my "patience reserve."

After a series of medical emergencies, a bad fall, and a 2+ week hospital stay; we were able to have my mom discharged to a rehab facility (she needed IV antibiotics, had post op wound care, oxygen and needed other medical stuff too). The rehab stay was 8 weeks, at which point we were able to move her to the long term care nursing wing in the same facility. All to say, sometimes a bad fall, another medical emergency, a hospital stay, surgery, etc. when there is advanced dementia might be the trigger point for considering it may time to think about placement in a facility. The social workers at the hospital were very helpful.

This journey is a sad one and there is nothing simple about it. We each have to navigate this journey as best we can, while providing the best care for our LO which may not be us caring for them in their or our homes for ever. Sometimes that works, and often it does not. Letting go of guilt helps when tough decisions have to be made.

Best of luck

When is your father's cataract surgery scheduled for, and who is going to help him do the multiple-times-a-day eyedrops?

Once your father can see again, just how are things going to get better?

I’ve been there it’s only going to get worse for you . Your mother is manipulating you . Your parents need to go in assisted living .

When we find ourselves being drawn into caregiving for our parents, in most cases, we fail to separate providing physical care from providing emotional support.

The physical is the easier part. The emotional support part is trickier.

A lot of people use emotional manipulation - mainly guilt - to get what they want from others and it's very effective unless the focus of the manipulation recognizes it and refuses to be affected by it.

Appeasing your mother so she won't burst into tears will only get you more tears in the long run. Don't allow the tears to become an effective tool for her to use on you.

I highly suggest that you read the book by Drs. Henry Cloud & John Townsend - "BOUNDARIES, When to say yes, How to say no".

I feel the pain. My mom reads everything to me..bible, food ads, news articles. I hate it! I drift off but I am retired so I guess I have the time! Do not waste your time trying to explain why …..you do not have time for her involvement. Just get the job done and leave. Good Luck. OMG I hate the words “boundaries” and “self care” ! They mean so little when dealing with dementia. Reasoning with craziness gets no where.

You are right it does suck. Read a lot of post here. Especially under burnout. Start thinking about your boundaries now and what you will and won’t do. So many people get in situations they did not intend due to parent emergencies and no planning for the future by the parents.
I am so sick of mother not wanting people in her house but complaining non-stop about taking care of Dad.

To change your profile you click on your Avatar, click on "settings", then "about me".

I think of a POA as a tool. It does not mean your are obligated to care for them physically. You don't have to be at their beck and call. But you will be able to talk to facilities, doctors, utilities, pay bills. If they need in home care, then you have the ability to use their funds to pay for it. When their money runs out you are not obligated to pay for their care. With your parents ages and health I would have the POAs Immediate. This way you don't need a Doctor to sign off they are incompetent to make informed decisions for your POA to be in effect.

I would say those notes are reminders for Mom, not you. Thats why she has to read them. Maybe telling her "Mom, it overwhelms me when you start reading all those notes. My mind can't remember them all. How about we read one at a time." What you can't do right then you put on the table and tell her you will address it after you do what ur there to do. Besides being a hoarder she is probably OCD too. I know, you just want to get in there and do what needs to be done and get out. Been there. Really still am, have a disabled nephew.

You have options. If Mom is taken to a Hospital, take advantage of it. Tell them she needs a 24/7 evaluation. If it comes back she does need 24/7 care, then tell them to send her home would be an "unsafe" discharge. That there is no one there to properly care for her. Then place her. Do not let them tell you there is help out there, once she is discharged and you walk out that door, she is your responsibility. Yes, there is help if you are low income and it does not cover 8 hrs a day usually. If parents can afford it they pay for it. Then life depends on if the aides are on time or even show up. Better Mom gets placed.

It sounds to me that you need to sit down with your father and have a chat about your mother. Take him out of the house - coffee at a diner? - and ask him what he thinks is going on in his house and with his wife. Listen carefully to what he says and to what he thinks. And, also, to what he does not say. Take notes.

Share with him your concerns about your mother's compulsive behavior. Explain that your mother's refusal to shower may be a sign of dementia, mental illness, or a combination.

Ask him for durable power of attorney both medical and financial. Ask him to get your mother to agree to that for herself too. Explain that you cannot help them if you do not have the authority to do so. Make an appointment for them with an elder law attorney.

Does your father handle any of the money/banking or was this your mother's role in their marriage? Your father now needs to take charge of the situation that is happening. Offer your help. If he refuses, however, step back and revisit this in a few weeks with him.

Sometimes it takes many conversations with parents or a parent to get your message through. Depending on how hard this situation is on your father, you may need to take him out for coffee several times.

You asked about editing your profile to update for us. It isn't too hard. Go up to your avatar in the upper right hand corner of the page and click on it. That brings you to a choice of Profile, Activity and etc. Click on Settings. Then you will see choices of what to play around with. Hope others come in with the solid step by step to doing this. Hard to go through it step by step here, but there's a way to change your profile or add to it. Just click about until you find it (good luck).

Thanks for your update Memorable. So you have a sister helping you and both your parents are in their 70s, and there is so far no POA and you and your sis are simply trying to help your parents once a week.
You mention going through the bills which are unpaid yet you have a father there who is currently still working albeit from home. You mention an unkempt, confused, uncooperative and hoarding Mom.
I am not getting a picture here, as your Mother sounds as though she is suffering from dementia. But this could well be mental illness and been going on for some time.
You either have parents here with some dementia, or you don't. There is no POA and I will tell you right now that I would no more want POA over these two than I would want a basket of rattlers tipped out at my feet. Talk about impossible!
So, again, I can't guess at what is happening here. You either have hoarding parents who aren't paying bills in their 70s and living in squalid circumstances (which are not new) or you have helpless parents, one with dementia and the other in denial, and for the life of me I can't tell what is the case. If you fill out your profile for us that will help.
If this is NOT dementia, then your "help " is enabling, won't help them, will become more and more and more dire, and will more and more and more impact your and your sister's life to no avail.
Please consider reading the memoir by Liz Scheier about her mentally ill Mom and her attempts to help her. It is called Never Simple.
If your parents are mentally challenged then they are living their lives as their choose and the consequences to their health and their money and their lives is their problem. You aren't their parents; they are yours. Being their POA would be entering a decades long maelstrom.
You mention "personal freedom" is important to them. If you have read or watched anything on hoarding you will know that their freedom to live in this manner is CRUCIAL to them to the extent that they cannot be helped. That fact may free you to understand that sacrificing your time and your sister's will not help them. Not everything can be fixed; that's a sad fact that is often impossible for us to get in life.
You and your Sis should seek the help of a Licensed Social Worker in private counseling practice to see what choices and options are moving forward. They should not include the choice to sacrifice your lives on this altar to no avail, imho.

can't delete accidental posts? really?

You speak of doing this for your mother, yet your profile says ONLY that you are caring for your father. I am confused?
You say you have added parental care to your schedule once a week. My question is who is doing this the other 6 days a week and why are they doing it so badly?
Are you POA?
IS there someone else doing things? Because from what you have written about this senior, your Mom is no longer capable of self care, personal, financial or any other kind.
You have my sympathy, but if your Mom doesn't have 24/7 care, and you are her POA, there's a problem here.
I understand you may not be able to take all this on, but your Mom now needs placement, care, and financial management. You, if your are POA, need to hire a Licensed Fiduciary who will manage all this out of your Mom's funds and assets. He or she can handle all bill paying, and get mom placed per your instructions.
If you are not POA, do recognize that your mom needs help. It's time to see an elder law attorney to see how to proceed if you are the only responsible family member involved.
My very best out to you.