Feel morally wrong using Mom's money to check her own financial status. Any advice?

Isabel - ok so brother #1 (the one who is "concerned" & also is the one who got burned by his financial advisor/FA) is the one leading this issue right?

For me the problem is that bro #1 does not understand what a FA is & does. Does he think that the FA just handles investments with fairy dust and does not make a fee or commission to do so? That is probably why he got burned with his own personal FA & I would bet a case of Prosecco he placed his $$ not with a stockbroker but instead with an insurance guy who promotes himself as a FA. I would bet case of gin that bro # 1 now is looking at his situation and realizing that he does not have the funds that he thinks he needs for his own next 2 to 3 decades and he is thinking that he needs to get some of mom's $$ to bolster his own retirement. And part of this concern is being encouraged by his wife. And "geez whiz mom's care is just costing sooooooo much and really wouldn't it better used in another way……and lets get a new FA to do this and do it my way…." so that he can derive a benefit from mom's portfolio rather than use it all up for enabling her to be in a nice facility leaving very little or nothing upon mom's death. If this sounds like him, you need to have your radar on to make sure he does not do something to jeopardize mom's ability to continue to pay her AL.

The vibe I get from you is that you like where mom is and don't want to do anything to endanger any of mom's situation at this point in time. At 98, mom is off the charts for planning so none of the investment models will work for her. If the "new" FA suggests a change from what is happening you want to ask for the specific details & costs to cash out any & all investments too. The fact that mom still has $$ at this point in life is amazing and kudos to her & your late dad & their FA to do this. Personally, i would not change anything at this point in time

Your Mom has beaten the actuarial tables. For those in this situation (my mom is your mom's age) the options are very very limited. Really (& I've said this on this forum a lot) if they live long enough, they will run out of money eventually unless they are the few who are generationally wealthy. My mom ran out of funds a couple of years ago and was in a lovely IL facility at the time (ran about 3.5K a mo but it was very much Independent Living). I got her into a NH and onto Medicaid and totally bypassed the whole AL stage. Moved her about 1.5 yrs ago to another & very very good NH that takes Medicaid. She is now on hospice too @ the NH (she is now bedfast since she fell while pushing her wheelchair on her way to line dancing class). Her level of care is excellent between what the NH staff provides (& Medicaid pays for) and then what hospice staff comes in to do (which Medicare pays for).

I bring this up because for the advanced elderly (over 95 for women) their situation can turn on a second. I would carefully speak with the social worker at your mom's AL to see what they would do if mom should overnight need a higher level of care; if the AL is set up to transition her to their NH section; & what it would cost in the NH on the average per month. BTW the facility where your mom is is probably most excellent if she is 98 and still able to be in the AL section. Then with the possible costs known, you go & meet with the current FA to see where that would take her to in her portfolio for 1 year and then for 2 years. Most NH residents die within the first 6 - 8 mos but there are the ones (which I bet your mom is this type like my mom) who are basically very tough old & tiny birds that don't even get into the NH till mid 90's. This type seem to be able to stay in the NH for 3.5 years till they die, so see where mom is for her funds @ 102 years of age. One of the reasons why we decided to get my mom in a NH and onto Medicaid and do a massive spend-down to make that happen & then also working with her gerontologist to create the medical history to qualify for skilled nursing needed, is that at mid-90's age needing a NH rather than just AL was in mom's future. My mom just would not have had the funds for many years of AL, so instead we did a spend-down to get her to be OK for Medicaid so that payment for her care would be ensured whether she lived another 6 months or another 5 years. Everyday I am so grateful that Medicaid & Medicare is out there for her too,.

Another ?, who is mom's DPOA?

Their concerns is wondering how long our mom's money would last. Also one of my brothers got burned so to speak by a financial planner. One brother told me that mom's planner has made thousands of dollars from his fees over the years and our dad ( passed away for some time already ) who not listen to my brothers financial suggestions. He thinks our dad could have handled his money with out a planner. Dad told me he didn't mind paying fees and felt comfortable. My brothers manage their own money and both are doing well. I myself have a financial planner and don't mind paying fees for someone to mange my money.
Why are they doing it now? One brother recently retired- got time on his hands,( the one who had a bad financial planner in the past ) wanted to check. I am expecting the findings in the mail . Supposedly my brothers and I will discuss the results. I really have annoyed my brothers because I just don't agree with them on why they did this: 1: without mom's knowledge.2. using her money.3.and already reassured by the first planner mom's portfolio will last quite a while to sustain her assisted living needs.

The ? for me is why do this right now? If mom has a long-term successful relationship for 2 decades with a FA & still has the funds to pay for a costly AL and she is 98, whatever the FA did was pretty frickin' excellent.

So what is your siblings current financial situation? Something possibly amiss for them? or with their spouses or kids? I would look carefully at just what the "new" advisor is…..like is he a true stockbroker (which the old one probably is and probably is with a wire-house with a federally required compliance officer) or is he more an insurance salesman.

I have mixed feelings about the use of her funds and strong feelings about financial planners, so I'll pass on commenting, but one thing does concern me:

"... a years worth of statements of her investments as well as her past years tax info was given to the 2nd financial planner as well as her will/trust.. So yes it was like an audit to make sure the first financial planner was doing his job."

Investment statements will reflect beginning and ending balance as well as distributions. If they meet certain minimum thresholds, they would be included in her annual tax filings. I couldn't help wondering why the financial planner would want both, unless it's to re-evaluate and make suggestions on reallocating investments in her portfolio.

And in judging whether the first financial planner is doing his job...by what and whose standards? Those of the brothers or the second financial planner? And what are the goals - high yield, diversified, socially valuable or stable investments? Who establishes those criteria?

I don't want to be suspicious but something just sets off alarms for me. Hopefully I'm wrong. It's probably because I've seen abuses in nonfamily managed conservatorships when the so-called planners begin reallocating someone's investment portfolio.

If it ain't broke why fix it.....apparently the current planner has done just fine if your Mom still has money after 20 years. I don't think her money should have been used. SHE was not questioning her planner! Did your brothers select one of their friends to do this audit? Just not the way we do things in our family. As long as Mom was happy and had positive money flow...what more could we ask for.

I think what is not moral is your brothers getting your mother to sign papers giving them permission to use her money without her knowing. I agree with your idea that the cost should have been shared.

I would strongly suggest getting POA.

I would absolutely see that as a reasonable expense using mom's money. No moral issue in my opinion.

Yes, a years worth of statements of her investments as well as her past years tax info was given to the 2nd financial planner as well as her will/trust.. So yes it was like an audit to make sure the first financial planner was doing his job.

It's actually a legitimate spend down, but I have never had to pay for just talking to an investment counselor. Is this some sort of Audit?