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Doctor said mom with mid stage dementia isn’t safe to drive anymore. We gave her time to give up car and after endless refusal we took the car to sibling’s house. She lives alone and is so angry with us. She cannot understand and even said if I kill someone then I’m probably dead too so what. We’ve offered to drive her anywhere. When I called tonight she started yelling again and hung up after telling me how much she hates me. We do have an agency coming in to evaluate her living situation. I know we did the right thing but I’m tired of taking the brunt of her anger and wonder when it’s ok to just say see you and good luck?

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I went through this with my Mother. I will say it is beyond stressful but it is necessary, her Dr even tried to reason with her. After many minor fender benders, all 4 corners were banged up, back and front bumpers as well. She called the police on me , however on explaining the situation I found out about a hit and run she was involved in. So, she too yelled, cussed and threatened. I had a caregiver in place as she is near 1000 miles from me. Give her several weeks to adjust then calmly explaining as many times as it takes why she can’t drive anymore, go to the positives , no more insurance car payments or upkeep.
Sadly it is our job to keep them safe, sometimes even from themselves. Meals, wheels, pills and bills these are the big 4 areas I was told to gradually get controlled. It isn’t at all easy as they just do not want to acknowledge reality. Anosigosa (sp)is what it is called. No two are the same, is also true. Best of luck, this sight has helped me navigate so many times.
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Reply to BioMom41
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My friend's husband, who has dementia but not too bad, sadly killed a man. Friend's husband went the wrong way on an off ramp and killed a man on a motorcycle. Family took his license and keys away immediately. When in front of the judge, friend's hubby was very remorseful. Family of the deceased did not press charges and settled for what insurance policy covered. Judge did state no more driving and the family was able to say that that was already not happening. Hubby had enough faculties to be severely traumatized and didn't put up any resistance to losing his license.
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Reply to sad4sis
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My mom always loved to drive. After being in rehabs and hospitals for approximately 5 to 6 months, we thought maybe it may not be safe for her to drive any longer. We spoke with her Doctor who told her she probably could renew her license but probably should not.

I think it might be a matter of pride for people to keep driving - it makes them feel like they are in control of their life. However, if an accident happens, they lose all control particularly if they hurt or kill someone.

With my mom, we told her that we were not worried about her driving as she was a good driver. We were more worried about the other bad drivers out there and what could happen due to their negligence.

Mom agreed with that reasoning and now we take her out a couple of times a week. We will take her to a store to shop and also to a restaurant to eat out. She seems to be very happy with this compromise and also feels safe.

I know how difficult it is dealing with the situation… Not only is it hard for the parent to give up driving, but it’s also hard for the child to see the parent losing some of their independence. Take care of yourself.
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Reply to orangemonster99
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You did the right thing. We had to do this to my BIL who had dementia and the doctor told him he couldn't drive anymore. At first we left the car there but he had another set of keys for it and drove it we found out by his neighbor who told us he was driving.

We took him and his car out to a sister in law's house showed him where it would be and then drove him home in our vehicle. He kept asking about his car we would tell him that its out at the sister in law's house and that would be the end of it.

But it came a time to sell it and we did sell it to his niece who lives out there. So if he ever goes out to that house he can see the car still thinking its his.

Prayers that it gets better for you.
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Reply to Babs2013
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She can NOT be allowed to drive. You did exactly what dementia experts recommend. We've told my wife that the doctor and police will not let her drive. Because of her vascular dementia, she cannot recall who took her keys, but expresses her anger almost daily toward that person. May be too late, but try to deflect the responsibility to someone else like police, doctor or even insurance company. When she complains, do not try to argue or explain, say that you understand, that you will drive her as needed and will talk to the doctor in morning to see if the restriction can be changed. Hopefully she will forget and you can offer this suggestion over and over. Good luck.
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Reply to MikeinTexas
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Tap, you did the right thing. You are the bad guy that did the right thing. Stick to your guns.
Had to take my Mom to get a state issued ID because she was unable to drive and had been, her Dr signed off on it. The woman at the driver's license place told Mom she had a year to get her driver's license if she could walk in and take the test.
The year is up in November on her birthday.
She likes to tell me I took her freedom because I won't take her to get them. I have her car at my house. No way I'm leaving it at her house so she can get it in and drive around the block and wreck. I have to take her to drs appts and the eye Dr. told her it was good I was her chauffeur. Whatever. I get blamed for her 'not being able to do' pretty much everything.
You did the right thing, I'm sorry but you will never live it down in her eyes. Just know you are saving lives in the meantime.
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Reply to Rbuser1
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Brandee again--

On the off chance she gets a ride to your sister's house I'd deactivate the car (pull the battery).

I like the small yellow book from AlAnon. I think it is called Courage to Change. It costs around $8.00. It is for families of alcoholics.
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I'd recommend AlAnon for you and your family.

At 81 it is unlikely she will ever go alcohol free.

Drop off a months worth of alcohol at a time.

The long term alcoholism may have caused the dementia. Look up Warnicke Korsakoffs. It is caused by long term alcohol use.

Good job to ya'll for taking the car.

Load Uber or Lyft software on her cell phone. Show her how to use it to get a ride. If she can't
figure it out after you've shown her once her dementia is progressing.

Alcoholism is heavily linked to causing anxiety. My Dad was an alcoholic and he was hard core mean. I had to step away from things for awhile.

One of Mom and Dad's caregivers invited Dad to a summer holiday picnic at a campground. Dad drank all day in the heat. He died in the middle of the night-I think from dehydration.
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With Dr statement, related to her driving, you should go to the DMV and have them revoke her drivers license as well. They will send her notification through the mail and that may help her to understand. We had to do that with my ML. She got the message.
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Reply to Bobtheflyfisher
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That’s ridiculous , you were lucky enough to have a doctor willing to say she can’t drive . ( Some never want to get involved and leave it to family ).

Then the agency are cowards and undermine what the doctor said .
Did you have somethlng in writing from the doctor ? If not , is that why they didn’t back up what the doc said ?

I would not give her the car back . She’s 81 , she will always be an alcoholic . I wouldn’t want someone drunk and with dementia driving . Bring her food and all the booze she wants . Let her go out the way she wants at home . I feel like putting elderly alcoholics in a facility , where there may be booze restrictions that her body can’t handle , will be worse for her than her demise at home .
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Reply to waytomisery
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The agency didn't want her anger - they wanted the 'neurological examiner' to take it. It’s called ‘passing the buck’. If M won't oblige with the test, or doesn’t pass, she doesn't get the keys back.

My reaction to this is not in accordance with PC, but here goes. You “made a liquor store run before we left her”. It's been your normal procedure. Make another one, enough spirits for a month. Leave it with her. It may be a blessed release for you, a great way to exit for her.
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Reply to MargaretMcKen
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Great responses and I really appreciate the advice. It got weirder today. The agency we sent to her home to evaluate her ability to live alone, ended up giving her information on how she could test to get her license back. License wasn’t pulled we just took the car because doc said she wasn’t safe to drive. Agency also said she may not be demented enough so now we worry we jumped the gun even though it’s been years of decline and crazy behavior.
All the experts do want her to take a neurological exam which she has refused . Also mom fired her doctor for saying she couldn’t drive and has dementia. So, this all sucks .
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Reply to Tappingout
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Daughterof1930 Aug 28, 2024
I’ve found a number of “professionals” to be idiots, or at the least poorly informed and trained for their jobs. Take their evaluation with a grain of salt, you’re the one that’s been experiencing the behaviors and decline. You didn’t take the car too soon, please don’t relent on it. It’s normal for mom not to be able to see her situation clearly, or at all. And yes, it sucks
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Oh I've been there; Twice!! First with my mom who was not angry, just confused. I told her the car needed parts and they couldn't fix the car without those parts. My Dad had two near-death car crashes before he thank jesus realized on his own that he couldn't drive any longer. He was angry. If your Mom is choosing to take it out on you, be firm as in grounding a teenager and refusing to put up with abusive language. You can try and change the subject when she starts to escalate, then tell her that you're going to need to get off the phone this conversation is not going well and you're getting a headache. You'll call her back in three days. Follow through and if she digs in again, repeat that you are not finding this conversation pleasant at all. You'll need to end the conversation; would she like to speak about anything else? No? Alright, Mom; have a great afternoon and I'll check in with you in three days. You did the Right Thing and thank you for possibly saving lives; this role-reversal stuff is painful yet increasingly necessary for the physical, emotional, and financial health of all involved parties.
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Reply to gemswinner12
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When she throws a fit about having the in home help she's determined to need, call APS and report a demented, alcoholic senior living alone. Then you can walk away knowing you've done all you could.
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waytomisery Aug 28, 2024
This may be the best way . After I posted my answer below, I thought about how the mother will be driving OP crazy to bring her alcohol , which may be a problem depending on the facility she is in , or if the mother will cause behavioral problems because she’s dry or drunk .

OP you don’t want to be stuck with Mom if they kick her out of a facility . Think about if you would rather let APS take over and Mom become a ward of the state . It may be best .
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"See you and good luck" sounds like a plan.

What more can you do, considering that mom is demented and irrational? The conversation is not going to vary from what she's throwing at you every time you talk with her. So don't talk with her. You decide when you feel like having rotten tomatoes slung at you again.

I hope the agency's evaluation will be a turning point and provide you with some backup. If not, continue to keep your distance. I'd like to believe that once mom thinks it over and realizes that a good relationship with you is her key to getting what she wants (transportation, social life, family), she will change. But that seems unlikely. Her brain isn't normal.

So sorry. You did the right thing by taking the car.
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Reply to Fawnby
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Thank you for taking the car. Good that you have an agency coming to evaluate her needs.

If she calls you and starts yelling just hang up. If you are visiting her, just leave.

My mother was like this my whole life. I called rarely and when she started being a b***h I’d pick up and leave. She once confided to the caregiver that I was afraid of her. She was absolutely right, I was. But I handled it in my own way.
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Reply to Hothouseflower
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Your mother is likely no longer safe to be living alone, as well.
What did the doctor say about THAT?

You are a free human being, not a slave, and it is your choice when to say "Goodbye and goodluck; here are the emergency numbers to call". BUT if she is unsafe alone and you know that you need to also notify the authorities, police or APS for wellness check on her.

The management of someone in this condition who is not cooperative is almost impossible.
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Reply to AlvaDeer
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No one has to tolerate abuse even if it comes from a person with dementia. I get it about your mother being angry about losing her driving privileges, but you did the right thing. I want to thank you for potentially saving many lives by taking her car away.

I was a homecare provider for 25 years and now operate my own. I can't tell you how many times a senior needed their family to take the keys away. The senior gets angry and belligerent so the family backs down and lets them keep driving. They'd rather run the risk of them killing someone then deal with the tantrums and verbal abuse. You did the right thing.

You also did the right thing bringing in a homecare agency to evaluate her living situation. If it's a good and reputable company they'll tell you straight.

Now, your mother may be resistant to homecare. So you tell her what I have told countless resistant seniors who refused to let me in and who were uncooperative with their own care.

~Nothing will get a senior a one-way ticket to a nursing home faster than being stubborn.~

This usually gets a person onboard with accepting homecare.

As for your mother's hatred and verbal abuse towards you. If she's still going to be living alone, she must have enough faculties left to understand that she's intentionally behaving abusively and you don't have to take that from her. Give it right back. Tell her plainly that you understand she's angry about the care but she will not speak to you in such a manner and if she continues she will be out of your life. If she's being abusive on the phone, you hang up. If it's in person, you leave. Enough is enough.

Years ago I was a supervisor at a high-end AL facility. It was not a nursing home or memory care facility. Many residents still had their own cars and were very independent. Mostly it was seniors who couldn't keep up a home anymore and all that comes with being a property owner. When a resident needed a higher level of care, they had to go somewhere else.

We had one resident where every time I went by if she saw me she'd say to anyone around, "There goes that fat b***h". She did this countless times. Until one day I stopped dead in my tracks, started backing her towards the wall, and got about an inch away from her face and belligerently said, "What did you call me?" She got all flustered and panicky and said "Nothing (my first name)". I told her that's what I thought and walked away.

She never said a word to me again. In fact she did her best to avoid me until I left that job almost two years later.

Don't allow verbal abuse and never give in because of a tantrum. There's going to be a lot of both coming. Don't allow either.
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Reply to BurntCaregiver
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Tashi5 Sep 6, 2024
I am impressed by your strength and determination. You have continually
stood up for yourself and refused to participate in the abuse.
Your advice is invaluable.
I 'm imagining a gold medal designed for you to wear with pride. On it is carved a beautiful design of flames circled by the words "BURNT CAREGIVER"
Thank you.
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Great job taking the car! You’ll never know what disaster you may have prevented, for mom or another family. Don’t listen to her rants, get off the phone the minute she starts, no one deserves to be berated, no matter if it’s the dementia talking. Please heavily consider if mom will start to wander on her own now as it’s common with dementia patients, she may not be safe on her own at all now. I wish you both peace
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Reply to Daughterof1930
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When you were 3 or 4 and you were at the store with mom and you wanted the candy bar or later on you wanted to stay out late and mom said NO! I bet you did some of the same things mom is doing now. Yell, cry, stomp your feet and probably said "I hate you" or "Why don't you let me do...."
These are normal reactions to not getting what we want even if it is not for out own good. As a young child you did not understand that this is part of trying to keep you healthy, or when you were a bit older a way to make sure you were safe.
The catch here is mom is not going to learn that what you are doing is for her own good (as well as the rest of the community) so you are going to have to put up with the temper tantrum.
Try to redirect her. But while doing so validate her point and tell her you understand.
Maybe if you have the doctor write out instructions that she can not drive until he clears her again. You can read her the paper from the doctor, tell her the next time you see the doctor she can ask if she can drive.
Eventually she will forget about driving.
In the meantime if she begins yelling, screaming say "Mom, I can't talk to you when you yell like that I am going to hang up." then hang up.

I do have another concern...
Is she safe living alone?
Is there a possibility she would decide to walk to the store...at 2 or 3 AM? Or leave the water on in the sink? Or let someone in to the house to "fix the gas leak"? I am of the belief that a person with dementia should not be living alone. You never know when that moment will come that something could happen.
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Reply to Grandma1954
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Anxietynacy Aug 28, 2024
That was so enlightening!!!
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I think what many of us here wrestle with is not upsetting them which can fall under the category of denial. Letting them drive while under the influence is a form of denial and enabling. You did the right thing by taking the car. Her attitude alone is displaying a form of narcissistic thinking about killing someone on the road and killing herself. This is the rantings of someone who has problems with judgment. The drinking alone is a problem.

I'm at a point now when I deal with yelling and screaming, I hang up or leave. These people are no longer in charge. They don't make rational decisions because that part of the brain is damaged. Don't let her run you ragged with errands.
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Reply to Scampie1
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I am so very proud of you and your siblings that you had the guts and courage to do what you knew was the right thing by taking your moms car despite her volatile responses.
So many people know they need to do something but are so afraid to upset the apple cart, so they just keep hoping and praying that their loved one won't get hurt or worse yet kill someone while they're driving with a demented brain.
I am involved with a caregiver support group for folks caring for a loved one with dementia, and nothing gets me fired up quicker than learning that they're still letting their loved one with dementia drive.
I do usually go off on them, as someone has to speak up for all the innocent drivers that haven't a clue that there is someone on the roadways with a broken brain. It is no different than someone driving drunk or high on drugs.
So I say THANK YOU for having the courage to do what's right. And I'm sure all the people on the roadways where your mom lives thank you as well.

Now unfortunately the time is near when your mom should no longer be living by herself, and that too will be another hurdle to get over.
But for now, I would just limit your calls and visits, and if and when she gets hateful about her car or anything else, just tell her you have to go and will call/be back when she's in a better mood.
I wish you the very best, as this journey will get much harder before it gets better.

P.S. Oh Lord! I just read below that your mom is an alcoholic on top of everything else, and that you are enabling her instead of trying to get her help.
That's a whole other issue(though I'm sure her dementia is related to her alcoholism)that needs to be addressed as well. Drug rehab facilities accept folks of all ages.
You have got one hot mess on your hands and I honestly wouldn't blame you if you just threw up your hands and walked away.
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Reply to funkygrandma59
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ElizabethAR37 Aug 29, 2024
Yup, sounds like she may have been drinking AND driving for some time. Good thing that's no longer happening.
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Tappingout,

I'm glad you and your sister stood your ground with the car, I'm sure that was not easy at all!

And I'm glad you know that it's very dangerous for an elderly to detox. My friends mom almost died traveling because she didn't drink any alcohol, for too long of a time.

Now is the waiting period of how your moms going to react, is she going to calm down with our the car and accept it or never let it go.

Now be careful of her wild goose chase, she will most likely send you on sence you and your sister, said what ever you need will get it for you. Well she is most likely going to think she needs a lot. My mom thinks she needs one tomato at a special farm stand , her and my dad always got. Or a special artist that makes a yearly calendar, in Vermont.

When is it ok to just say see ya, when ever you say it's time it ok with us. We never judge walking away from this, and we can support you though it. We have all been where you are. Your not alone

Welcome to are forum, stick with us, will help you though this
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Reply to Anxietynacy
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Perhaps it's time to consider meds for her anxiety/agitation if she isn't already on something. People with dementia become unable to bring their minds to a place of peace or acceptance.

I just dealt with the whole driving retirement thing. I was ready for a huge battle but it turned out not so bad, however my Mom still has bouts of anger and paranoia over it. She can't help it and neither can your Mom. My Mom's brother (my uncle) actually did drive past when it was safe and had caused an accident that killed his own wife on the passenger side. None of this mattered to my Mom.

Driving privilege is a huge loss no matter the reason. I suggest not waiting for your Mom to call you. Plan 1 day a week to take her out on her errands regularly. If she doesn't have any errands, drive somewhere fun or interesting.

I get how it sucks to get the brunt of their anger. Everything about dementia is hard. Work on having peace in your heart.
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Reply to Geaton777
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ElizabethAR37 Aug 29, 2024
Meds + alcohol usually don't work out very well even for younger folks. I think she would need to be medically detoxed, then possibly started on meds (if appropriate) with supervised administration. (I worked in an alcohol rehab agency for almost 40 years.)
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Good advice! I forgot to add she is an alcoholic and we did make a liquor store run before we left her. Detoxing at 81 is too dangerous! I’m sure that’s not helping the dementia .
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Geaton777 Aug 28, 2024
If she has been an alcoholic for a long time she could have Wernike-Korsakoff syndrome (aka "wet brain"). It's a type of dementia particular to alcoholics.
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Mid stage dementia can be very difficult .
Your mother doesn’t recognize there is anything wrong with her and you won’t be able to get her to understand or reason with her .

I hope the person coming to mom’s house is going to do a needs assessment to determine level of care .

In mid stage dementia , typically 24/7 supervision is required and she won’t be able to live alone . That leaves either round the clock care at home which is super expensive , or assisted living or memory care.

Leave her alone . A wise social worker told me
“ Let her fail , stop helping “.
Sometimes this is needed to force a change .
She will call when she needs food .
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Reply to waytomisery
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She’s throwing a tantrum, like a toddler at a store when you tell them they can’t have candy.

Ignore it and leave her presence/hang up the phone when the tantrums start.
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