What are power of attorney rights?

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What are power of attorney rights?

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Mom has several children , all adults. One of her children thinks he can control EVERYTHING about mom. the nursing home he placed mom in, has encouraged family members to take mom out for daily outings, but says POA hasn't approved mom's children to do so. I feel the POA has overstepped his authority. This is not the only red flag the POA has done, there are numerous, which points to taking advantage of elder...elder abuse.

Are there Senior Advocates that are available to represent mom and see to it that the POA is investigated? or is this something that each sibling would need to do in hiring their own attorney?

Power of Attorney (POA)

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When my two friends named me as their first DPOA, I was also already the executor of their will, so I knew their expectations with their estate. Right now, everything in the estate is used for memory care expenses, and it is quite possible nothing will be left when the husband passes. The wife has already died. I expect the process to be pretty seamless. All income goes to the bank account, all bills are paid by check so there is a paper trail easy to follow should I have to account to someone. The big task is cleaning out the town home and selling it--it's like a part-time job. I make sure nothing of value comes to me and the personal family stuff will go to distant family members. It's another topic, but I would appreciate any insights or thoughts on doing this "right."

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Did your brother do the poa legally have you seen it or did he give u a copy ..i am going threw same thg but there are 5 siblings oldest printed hers online and throws it in our face sides with a devil that has lived off my mom for 15 yrs took everythg my mom has ..and the poa has never stopped him. .now he is trying to take my deceased dads home in which poa illegally had signed over to mom from all siblings we were tricked not aware .one never signed .now with his freaking control he has been left alone with mom and she was severly burned in o2 fire.. .

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Pat, you raise a very interesting question, one worthy of its own thread and answers. This particular thread isn't new, and sometimes posters bypass responding when seeing posts from a few months ago.

I would repost as your own thread. You'll get more response.

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what happens when one spouse has a POA with the son and the wife has a POA with the daughter. Can the son with the POA make decisions that will affect both financially.

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lovemom:
Durable

Under the common law, a power of attorney becomes ineffective if its grantor dies or becomes "incapacitated," meaning unable to grant such a power, because of physical injury or mental illness, for example, unless the grantor (or principal) specifies that the power of attorney will continue to be effective even if the grantor becomes incapacitated. This type of power of attorney is called "power of attorney with durable provisions" in the United States or "enduring power of attorney" elsewhere. In effect, under a durable power of attorney (DPA), the authority of the attorney-in-fact to act and/or make decisions on behalf of the grantor continues until the grantor's death.[8]

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A Trust can be a license to steal if not very careful. My Grandmother thought she was very private about the trust, luckily My Uncle showed me shortly before he died. My Grandmother used a tax man who morped into financial advisor then morphed into Trustee. I had no idea that advisors canot be a Trustee due to the conflict of interest, no investment firms allow this, however he not only accepted the positions he groomed her to appoint him he invested $1.4 million in HD Vest(his firm) and she has about $700k in a savings account, The Tax man turned financial advisor turned POA, turned Trustee come to learn was convicted of negligence, due diligence, making unfit recommendations resulting in loss and fined $19k by FINRA! He never informed my grandmother of his record or how unethical it was to appoint him as all those titles with a poa too . He lied to the beneficiaries saying only $400k was left and for a year he denied he had over $2 million. He disregarded her instructions regarding her car which he has now 2 yrs He also stoppped paying my homes taxes and etc as instructed because I enforced my contract for care which for compensation asked only that my existing 50% trust status not be revoked, she revoked it secretly and continued using me as a slave for over a year, I learned by reading the 6 codicils made secretly with the trust attorney cutting me out secretly, not only that but a stale B trust was hidden and almost not noticed, 2 yrs now in probate and going no where

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Would like to add, since the mother has "several" adult children, it makes sense that she would not be allowed to leave, it would be a constant interruption for her, and most likely not in her best interest in the long run, instead, go see mom, take her a gift. Simply, imagine an elderly parent with six children, two come by to get their mother and take her out, they take her out for three hours, the next day another child comes by to take mom out, etc.... There has to be some control, this is an elderly person with health issues. Common sense and think of mother's best interest.

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It is possible her POA does not know he needs to approve who can remove his mother from the facility. Have you discussed this with your sibling? Have you asked why he hasn't given an approval for anyone to remove her? Or do is it possible he's protecting his mother. Obviously all of her children are able to visit her. Lots of info left out of this, too much.

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When I was given POA over my friends, they checked the box giving me authority to decide things even if it disagreed with their wishes. So, what authority a POA has and when it takes effect may depend on the form and the wording and the choices made. My power covered virtually everything, and it is a good thing it did. I wanted them to agree to a move to a memory care apartment, though, and when the wife became incontinent and started to wander and needed 24 hour care, I was able to convince them to make the move. They kept forgetting they had and I had to do that 3 more times, including the day of the move. Once they made the move, they were happy they did, and after the wife died from her dementia, the husband is happy to stay in that same apartment and receive the good care there he is getting. His short term memory is poor and though he is intelligent, his ability to make decisions is so undermined by the memory issues since he can't keep the facts in his head to make a good decision.

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Remember if you are still competent you can always revoke a power of attorney. The standards for competency are state specific but not as rigorous as you may think.

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The MPOA only goes into affect when the principle ( the person needing the MPOA) is unable to make his/her own decisions. Until that time the person is still the person who should be making their decision on their own. They can certainly elicit the advice of family but they have the power to have the last say until they are deemed incompetent to do so. A family member can not make that determination - only a healthcare professional ie: psychologist can do that.
A Durable POA can be a bit trickier in that the person designated is given power to access bank accounts and whatever other financial areas are listed.
This is usually done so that when someone is in the hospital or unable to go to the bank someone is able to handle their affairs on their behalf. ON THEIR BEHALF is a key phrase. Be very careful who you choose. This person should be trusted to the nth degree and should only be doing what the principle requests or has agreed to until such time they are unable to make financial decisions on their own - then they can step in and do what you have requested in writing. I have had horror stories come across my desk as a Notary. More than one person can be designated however for financial POA's, if there is any chance of their being a problem have a lawyer or outside fiduciary take this role.
If you need more help contact your local Ombudsman who will intervene with mom's best interest. If mom is still able to make decisions she can choose who she wants to go to lunch with and it is no one elses business or concern to stop her. An MPOA is for her healthcare not her ability to interact with family unless it can affect her health.
If she has dementia and is unable to amke clear choices or decisions the facility may say it is unsafe for her to leave the facility. Good Luck, This can too often become convoluted to the point of chaos.

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I was given power of attorney authority for two friends of mine with no children and no close family. It covered both the financial aspects and the health care decisions. At the same time, two others were names as second and third POAs. The second one lives out of state as was related to the wife as a second cousin, the third was another friend who lived near-by. So far, I make all the decisions, but include the others in what I do by telling them in emails. If something happens to me, they need to be up-to-date to be able to step in and take over. When we left for a trip recently, I had the most important things to access in a pile on the dining room table and showed the 3rd POA where it was--the checkbook, the monthly bills, etc. He would take over while I was gone or if something happened to me. We are all on the same page in terms of complete honesty and being responsible for our friends' well-being, so it is working well.

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DPOA is effective immediately only if written to be so, it may also be indicated to be effective only if the person is incapacitated. Again, a very important differentiation. Need to know what the DPOA document states if it is DPOA.

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Based on Angelkw's response, is a POA or DPOA involved?

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DPOA is a document that generally sets out the same legal rights as POA with the exception that it is active immediately, even if the person is competent.

There is a great article here on aging care about DPOA
https://www.agingcare.com/articles/what-is-durable-power-of-attorney-140233.htm

Angel

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The wording of this question caught my eye and I had to respond:
A POA has no rights, they have duties and responsibilities to act in the best interest of the person who granted them POA.

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Does he have durable power of attorney or simply power of attorney for health care? You don't mention if the power of attorney has been activated but it is assumed that is has been. ramiller has addressed this in their response. It is a very important differentiation and it matters if the power of attorney has been activated. To activate the power of attorney, it requires two physicians to determine that the person is not competent to make their own decisions. If this has not occurred the power of attorney has NO power.

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DPOA stands for durable power of attorney. There are two types of poas one is financial and one is medical. I would be interested to know does the son have one or both and is mom still competent. The answer to those two items is important to properly address this situation.

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Angelkw, what is DPOA?

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Sounds like you and brother have a difficult relationship. If you are not able to discuss your desire to take Mum out occasionally and all parties be reasonable in the discussion ask a social worker to obtain a mediator for you and brother to discuss in a neutral location how his actions may be at odds with the other family wishes. If brother is paying for nursing home and feels deep resentment this may be his passive aggressive way of retaliation. Offer to chip in financially if possible or there may be difficulties that occur when Mum is away from familiar surroundings and the nursing home complains to brother making his job harder.
As people age, especially with illnesses and dementia leaving a familiar place is difficult and disorients them upon return. If mum has dementia she may tell your brother that she doesn't want to go out -thinking it pleases him and then when she sees you it's a different story. It's all complicated and it can help to see the challenge from other sides before creating hard feelings. Doc

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Sorry to hear of your issues. First of all a Power of Attorney is a fiduciary obligation and not a right. Your brother is required to act in your mother's best interest. Typically this involves the ability to access finances, make insurance claims, etc. This can also involve the ability to choose living arrangements. It is used when a person has lost the competency to make decisions for themselves. Your mother may have lost the ability to manage her checkbook but not the competency to decide that she wants to go to church or dinner with you. However, the distinction becomes blurred and difficult for a third party, like a facility, to navigate. It is possible in most states to become guardian over the person while leaving another the guardian over the estate (money). If a resolution cannot be found you may seek guardianship over one or both of these.
Modern plans can allow for a POA monitor who can request copies of financial records. I generally do not advise clients to name multiple POAs due to deadlocks.

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The POA document specifies exactly the rights that the POA is given. Each POA document can be different, and there are also different rules by state. For example, it is common for someone to have power over paying bills, but not have the power to sell property. It is also common, especially if there are multiple children, to have one designated to make medical decisions and one designated to make financial decisions. You need to read the POA document to decide exactly where the POA power begins and ends.

Taking her out of the nursing home, while many people think this is a common sense way to improve her social life and happiness, can be much more complicated. Some nursing homes treat this as a medical decision or a safety decision. It could be a medical decision because after mom returns to the nursing home after an outing she may be agitated, disconcerted, and difficult so the POA has decided that its too much for her. Also, as someone else has discussed, many people are purposely disallowed from removing someone as they have a history of manipulation or gold digging.

I am assuming in my answer that your mom is not competent and that POA has already been activated for her. If she IS still competent, then POA is not activated UNLESS it is DPOA...if DPOA doesn't exist and she is still competent, then the person calling the shots now really has no rights.

Angel

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If your mom is competent you can hire an attorney to reci d the POA. If she is not you can seek guardianships. Guardianships are a legal preceding in the court. They are complicated and expensive. You can have the county where your mom lives investigate through the department of aging but it can make it difficult to continue to see your mother of your brother decides to retaliate on you. You could hire an advocate like IKOR if they have an office in your area. They can assign a nurse to support your family as an advocate for your mom. Being a POA for a family member can be an enormous amount of work and responsibility. An avocate will help you process and explore options as a family seeking your moms best interest. Advocates are paid out of pocket so your mom need to have the money to pay them but they can help.

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Let this be a lesson to everyone. Never give one child control over your life (POA, Trustee, health care advocate). Have a professional outside of the family take care of these matters. Picking one child over the others is a recipe for disaster.

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it sounds like the POA pre-arranged who could take Mom out of the facility. I know when we placed Mom we had to designate who had authority to take her out. For safety reasons, we also made sure to specifically list those who could not take her out as those individuals had previously tried to manipulate mom into giving them money. You could request the facility to let you know if there was such a designation and then offer to visit mom with your brother and take her out together a few times so that you are both comfortable with that before trying to do so on your own.

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I think POA is so poor it's not a good thing to give anyone
They become power mad goes to there head
POA for finance only is only that
If mum is in a care home NO he can not stop you taking your mum out
He does not own your mother
Get in there take her out she is your mother to
No one as the right to control body and soul
Do it she's your mum

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If you don't like the POA you hire an attorney and challenge them in court. Very expensive process, and you are subjected to fingerprint and background check and credit check if you want the court to appoint you. They even look at your tax returns, whether you own or rent and your driving record.
Can you pass all that?

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What are power of attorney rights?

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