My mother (70) has borderline personality disorder and lives with my brother. Some symptoms have mellowed out over the years, but others have gotten worse. She doesn’t threaten suicide anymore when someone attempts to set a boundary, but she does blame, guilt, become vengeful and martyr herself when they do. I think she has some signs of Alzheimer’s, but she refuses any testing.
She calls me 10+ times a day- every day, tries to keep me on the phone for hours and gets upset if I’m busy. I’m in my 40’s, married, work and have kids. I’m always busy and can’t give her my undivided attention most of the time. If I tell her I’ll call her when I have time, she’s offended, tells me she’ll never call again and I better not call her. If I did call her back, she won’t answer the phone until I apologize. She’ll tell my brother I’m a terrible daughter who “acts like my grandmother,” then she’ll call everyone else in our family, even distant family members to smear me about whatever she can think of including telling people I’ve said terrible things about them. She’ll also do this with random people like store clerks.
She has no life, actives, friends beyond what I’ve mentioned, so when she calls, she’s either gossiping about the information she’s siphoned from her calls with other people or she has nothing to talk about and wants me to tell her every detail of our lives- what we ate, where we went, who we talked to, if someone was at our house, she wants to know the life story of everyone we encounter- she especially wants to know about drama- all so she can go and tell everyone she knows, even private or financial things. If I just give generic answers, then she’ll dive into talking about inappropriate and painful events like my miscarriage or a struggle one of my kids is having, which leads to me telling her it’s not her business or I don’t want to talk about that with her and the cycle of her being offended repeats.
She refuses to leave messages and lives 20 mins. from us, so if I take a break and don’t answer for a couple days, she’ll have my brother text me and ask if we’re okay or if we’re mad at her or she’ll just show up to our house uninvited and unannounced and won’t leave for hours and gets offended if we tell her it’s not a good time. If she tries to come and someone else is here she’ll just drive by our house and ask who was here if she sees another car the next time she talks to me. She’s deeply offended if we do something without her or without telling her like she’s suspicious and thinks we’re keeping “secrets” from her. It’s always “when did you do that? Why didn’t you call ME? Why do you keep things secret are you ashamed of me?”
She invites herself to events, like ALL of them, even one’s she can’t really participate in. Both of her knees have been replaced, she’s overweight and diabetic, so anything involving walking, she can’t do. She not only wants to come, but wants us to drive her, so everyone has to pack up and leave when she wants to. She’ll show up to our house an hour before we leave without asking to force us into taking her.
She also does bizarre things for attention that are boundary issues. My dad died five years ago and she had a memorial plaque made. The last picture taken of him was of him holding my youngest as a baby, so she used the picture on the plaque, which is fine, but then right next to it she put my youngest’s most recent school picture and that’s the whole plaque. It literally looks like a memorial plaque for my child. What even is this?
I understand she’s aging, has health issues and won’t be here forever, but I’m at the end of my rope. If I set a boundary, she’ll just weasels it back to doing the same thing. I don’t want this to affect my kids, for them to think its normal or for her to put them in the same situation as they’re getting older. I know me taking the brunt of this gives my brother who lives with her a break, I feel guilty and awful and don’t know what to do?
No, she doesn't weasel back: you cave in. You enable. You don't really defend the boundaries you say you have.
Respectfully, please consider seeing a therapist who can give you an objective view of your dysfunctional, co-dependent relationship with your Mother, and help you identify and defend boundaries better than what you're dong now.
May you gain clarity, courage, wisdom and peace in your heart as you work through things to gain true independence.
There are great therapists out there, and just heard one on a podcast today saying "Basically we are here to assist you in breaking bad habits". It rang so true. Our reactions are knee-jerk habits often enough, and don't serve us well at all.
Nobody has ever told these types of entitled women to Sit Down & Shut Up, and this is the result. Running YOUR lives into the ground feeling entitled to say and do whatever they want bc there's no consequences to their horrid behavior.
The first time my parents showed up at my house unannounced, I told them to please never do that again. If they'd done so, I would not have answered the door and felt NO guilt about it whatsoever bc they were breaking my rules.
If you feel the need to relieve your brother of his burden, perhaps he needs to get mother set up in a senior living apartment of some kind.
From now on, mother can only come to events she's formally INVITED to, not those she invites herself to.
You decide when to make phone calls to her and their duration and content. The more personal info you give these women, the more ammunition it gives THEM against YOU. Less is more. It's none of her business the minutiae of your daily life and if that offends her, I suggest she create a Safe Space for herself in your brothers home where she can nurse her hurt feelings with a binky and banky.
Enough already! It's up to YOU how the future of this "relationship" plays out so figure out what the rules are and stick to them like glue. 100% of the time. Because mommy dearest is waiting for you to crack just ONCE to slither her way back in to play the game HER way once again. It's how they operate.
Take charge of this mess and quit allowing mother to call the shots!
Best of luck to you.
He has also blatently ignored 'drop-ins' at the door. We were sleeping or whatever he may say later (even if it was 4pm). Once he let his drop-in sister in, I left immediately for the shops & he immediately started mowing the lawn 😂
You can’t stop her trashing you to other people. This gives her less ‘amunition’, and if she does it a lot the chances are that a) it will annoy other people and b) they will stop believing her.
You can’t force her to change. What you can do is change yourself. Perhaps talk to your brother - he may want to make some changes himself.
Exactly. OP, can you and your brother join forces at all? Or is he burnt out, or very difficult himself or …?
She is a toxic person who is a master manipulator who needs to be put in her place,
Why in the world do you tell her everything that you are doing? You are an adult, not a 12 yo, you owe her no explanations. None.
You are codependent on her an enabler who backs down instead of standing your ground, you need to work on you, possibly get some therapy to help you get your life back.
She is a busy body that you have allowed to run your life...STOP....allowing her to control you.
She will not change it is you who has to change.
As for your brother, he can move out and also get a life for himself.
Sending support your way!
Your priorities now are yourself, husband, children and your job. PERIOD. Not your mother nor your brother.
I don't think you're aware of this yet but you've been enabling your mothers bad behavior all this time and it's time to stop it once and for all. You may need some professional therapy to do so, but for now let her calls go to voicemail and call her back only and when it is convenient to do so and only if you want to.
Then quit telling her about these "events" so you don't have to worry about her showing up. I'm sure your mother's not psychic so someone in your family must be telling her about them and my guess would be that it's you.
You both seem to have a weird co-dependency thing going on and if you're wanting it to stop it'll have to be you to change things.
And who the hell cares what other family members or friends think about you and what your mother says? I mean really. If they say something to you you just tell them that you'll give your mother their number so she can call them 10+ times a day and see how they like it.
It's time to get a backbone and get your priorities straight, and remember that your mother isn't one of them, or at least is at the bottom of the list.
Until you realize that things will continue on as is. Only you can stop the madness, and I hope for your families sake you will as they deserve so much better and need someone to show them what healthy boundaries look like.
Omg. So sorry you’re dealing with this, Beaconfused (great name, btw!). My late father had a a friend with BPD and even the smallest of interactions with her would raise my blood pressure to the roof. She had her good points but she did a lot of goofy and also just plain hateful things as a result of her disorder— I can totally imagine her ordering an inappropriate memorial plaque to get attention somehow. 🙄
I'm not kidding.
I know very little about BPD. It does seem that abandonment issues are a key component. To me it appears to be like the person has zero borders around themself - they do not define themself as a separate person to those in their inner circle.
That must add crushing pressure to those people & deep reserves of strength must be needed to maintain their own safe boundaries.
You can't change her.
You can't live the way she wants you to.
I think the only alternative is self-preservation.
The 10 calls, tell her you will call her a certain time a day. Give her no info on where you going. Stop the dropping in anytime she wants.
Be kind to yourself & remember you have been trained to appease Mother. But as an adult you are the keeper or your own time. Never to late to learn!
"She calls me 10+ times a day - every day, tries to keep me on the phone for hours and gets upset if I’m busy".
- Learn to ignore the calls.
Ignore 9 out of 10 calls. Answer the ONE call a day, at a time that suits you both. (Or ONE a week).
- Learn to wind up a long call.
It is perfectky OK to tell someone you are busy. Their need to chat does not outweigh your need to do other stuff.
- Learn to accept your Mother is a separate person.
She can feel any way she wants. If she gets upset, she gets upset.
Her feelings live inside her & are caused by HER THOUGHTS.
Her feelings are NOT caused by you being busy or unavailable.
Think about this. It can take a while. But it can be freeing.
For phone calls - Look at the clock and give her 10 minutes once a week. And then block. When you unblock you don't have to explain, just say Hi mom, and prepare an arsenal of responses that just let's her know she's being heard (but not listened to) like; Oh my, or, how did you manage that, or, that sounds rough, or my goodness.
I ordinarily don't speak in such short mild exclamations except to people who are very old and sweet, or to those who are stuck in the revolving door of their own existence.
Call and say either in person, or to voice message, Hi mom. Catch you later, or Hi mom and let her talk. Do not respond, explain, or clarify her take, twisted or otherwise. Say; I don't know, That must not feel good, or, Oh my. But don't engage with Whacky, even when you know she's misquoting. She's pulling you in. You will only work yourself up into a lather. When the 10 minute is up say. Sorry mom got to go. And go.
Find better ways to convey information - "I'll call you when I have time" sounds dismissive and doesn't sit well with anyone. Imagine you're always talking to a gentle person with Downs Syndrome. Better to say "Hi mom, can't talk, you ok? Great, I'll call your later".
Talking to her kindly will throw her off, but do it without gritting your teeth. You're talking to a bullying, panicked, lost, drowning, overgrown selfish 8 year old, who is willing to take down anyone with her. It is the only way she's erroneously learned how to communicate.
You will, must become, maybe shockingly, maybe all of a sudden, the teacher of the new way to respond to "mom". Don't budge from this. It will be very healing to your family. It is a tool your children will be amazed to witness. You house, your life will be calmer and thrive in a healthier way.
When she malignes you to other people - Shrug it off.
How would you receive the calls from a maniac that makes rancorous remarks about someone else. You would think ill of the speaker. If these people complain to you about it, just say in the most calm voice, Yes, it is a problem, poor mom, then cut the conversation short like a wise knowing kind person you really are inside on saner days, then wish that person a better day. If they come back to you about something again, they are not a good person to keep in your circle. I won't pile on a friend/relative I know is already suffering this abuse. I'd never say I even got a call.
Going to events - Sorry mom, maybe next time. Each and everytime if you'd like.
It is your time to live. She had her time. Would you do to others what she is doing to you?
When she asks - Are you ashamed of me? Say something like - Mom, it's all good, you're doing this to yourself.
Done
You may want to consider in the mix what your mom's relationship with her mom was like.
You are letting, as they say, the inmates run the asylum.
No one will punish you to be non-reactive to your mom. She's fed, clean, warm, and housed, that's it.
CONTROL. CONTROL. CONTROL, to include your reaction. When it comes to your mom, from now on you are a benevolent robot. You do only the reasonable best. Your obligation is to your health FIRST, and to and for you immediate family.
Be an example of how to manage this situation even if you develop what may seem a cool manner of behavior. You are the cool adult. What can be better?
"You're talking to a bullying, panicked, lost, drowning, overgrown selfish 8 year old, who is willing to take down anyone with her".
Found myself on watch duty yesterday with a man that fit that description above exactly. Despite being a stranger, elderley & delerious, I still had trouble staying empathetic.
All that panic rattled me & kept me from responding as calmly as I would have liked.
Makes sense: Panic is the oppositie of calm.
"even if you develop what may seem a cool manner of behavior".
Not my usual go-to but the cool approach will be needed today I expect. Like a suit of *Cool PPE* to protect against panic.
Decide how often you want to talk to her. Like once a week for 15 minutes and you hang up if she says anything mean.
Stick to it Stop caring what she tells others. Those who know you won't believe her. Anyone else? They don't matter
Read Liz Scheier's Never Simple. It's about a nice young woman with a BPD mom. You'll enjoy it and learn from it, I think.
https://outofthefog.website/
At the same time, I think it's helpful to remember that this is an ILLNESS you are dealing with. People can't help getting an illness but they CAN learn to manage their symptoms. Just like you wouldn't let a person with covid have entry into your home and snot all over you and your family without doing something, your mom's acting out is toxic and spilling onto everyone she comes in contact with. Tell her -- via letter if needed that there are consequences for unacceptable behavior (make copy of letter for yourself or you could even ask her to go to a therapy session to "help you" and set some ground rules for mom there) . I think ignoring her given the abandonment issues will only intensify her acting out for fear of losing you. Yet she truly can't see that her behavior is not okay. If possible get her involved in a DBT group (Dialectical Behavioral Therapy) or get her the DBT workbook by Marsha Linehan. This therapy is often the treatment of choice for BPD, the "gold standard." Maybe give mom two 20 minute phone calls a week. YOU set the time so you are prepared. If she is abusive during the phone call say "Mom, that's not okay. If it happens again I'm going to hang up and we won't be talking again until our next regularly scheduled phone call." Then do it! I'd also tell her "I've been made aware that you are saying untrue things about me behind my back. That is hurtful to me and not acceptable. I need you to stop it immediately or I will have no choice but to limit your contact with me. We treat each other with respect in this family. Your behavior has not been respectful or appropriate. Am I being clear?" Good luck!
You - and I assume - your brother have had a lifetime of being trained and conditioned to dance around your mother and her demands. None of what you have described happens overnight.
And mercy, I get it. I was also raised in an enmeshed family. It took half of my life to even begin to understand that I needed boundaries in order to begin to break free, and I'm still not free - I won't be completely until my mother (96) who lives with me has gone to Heaven.
But as for the here-and-now, I work on keeping boundaries every.single.day. while being my mother's sole caregiver and it's exhausting.
(I have a twin brother who passed away 4 years ago. He was caught up in the enmeshment and was never able to break free. He told me once that while he was away at college, our mother would write him letters that sounded like "she was writing to her dead son", and they traumatized him. He never married and ended up drinking himself to death. It's been heartbreaking to reflect on his struggle.)
In our family, if my brother or I made moves to emancipate ourselves enough to have a private life outside of the original family unit, it was seen as an act of betrayal.
Unless you - and I - go "no contact" with our mothers, there will always be a struggle. However, it's possible to lessen the strangle-hold that these mothers have on us.
I suggest the book by Cloud and Townsend "Boundaries" and I wish you the best. I understand.
I’m new here on the forum but deeply steeped in BPD/high conflict behavior. The first thing is let go of the FOG (fear/obligation/guilt) that she uses to control you & emotionally abuse you. No one deserves to be abused. Have you read the Randi Kreger books, ie: Stop Walking on Eggshells?? Highly recommend the series, & completely life changing.
There is so much I want to share with you, where to start?
Boundaries. It is LONG overdue that you set some adult boundaries around yourself. These would be for you, because YOU are the only person that you can control. You can’t control anyone else, certainly not your mom. So, what is allowable in your life? How do you allow people to treat you? Why? If anyone else treated you as you BPD mother did, would you remain in relationship? Hah, OF course not! Just because she is your mother does not mean she has license to abuse you any longer. You need to decide how you will allow people to treat you. :)
First let’s talk about JADE: justify, argue, defend, explain. STOP doing these things when you can’t talk, or don’t want to talk about it. She pushes your button purposefully in order to suck up your energy. Think of a vampire living off of others’ energy. When she calls, get a small paper and write it out & hold it in front of you while speaking with her. You will have to practice a LOT to break the deeply ingrained behavior patterns established over your lifetime.
When she tries to use emotional intrusion, let her know that topic is not open for discussion. When she pushes it, say something like, “You don’t seem to be hearing me, I said that I’m not taking about ***. If you can’t respect that right now, then I’ll have to end the conversation” Then, when she tries a third time, OH and she will, “Well, I see that you’re determine to ignore my boundary discussing **, So, like I told you, since you can’t stop, I’m ending the conversation now. I’ll call you in (2 days - or whatever) and maybe you’ll be in a better mood. Good bye now.” Then hang up. You must end the convo EVERY.SINGLE.TIME that she bashes your boundaries after you asked her to stop. Think of it like a toddler testing the limits. If you let the toddler slide, even once, you have to start all over and the toddler is harder to deal with. Also, you must call when you said you will. Do this ten times and it really helps the convos where she just runs right through your wants/needs. But the key is consistency. Do NOT continue about whatever topic it was, don’t JADE about why not. “Because that’s my choice, & I’m choosing not to discuss that topic. If you want to continue talking about that, I’ll have to end the convo. Is there anything else you would like to talk with me about?” Don’t go any further than that, you were clear, concise, polite. No one deserves more explanation after they rudely break your boundaries.
Second, how about those flying monkeys that she sends in to harass you. It might work if you tell them bluntly, ‘Look, you KNOW how she is, now you’re doing her bidding by calling me about this. She’s lonely, so how bout you call and talk with her instead? I know you’re calling because you care about her, but how about you call HER instead of me. I’m sure she would love to talk to you. OK, thanks for checking in, but I have to finish making dinner now. Nice talking with you, and thanks for giving her a call. I know she’ll appreciate it. Bye.”
Third: your home is your home. Do not allow her in if you have not invited her. PUT YOU FOOT BEHIND THE DOOR when you answer it. You can be politely but firm, “Oh, unfortunately this is not an ok time for a visit. Remember, I’ve explained that you need to call ahead of time to get an ok from me before you come over. This is not a good time, so unfortunately you’ve wasted your time. I have to get back to my work now, let’s talk tomorrow. I’ll call you at ***. Good bye.” Close the door and lock it. OH I’m out of space! Feel free to message me!! Best of luck!
Unlike your mom she doesn’t think it is all important, but sometimes the opposite. She throws important documents away. She threw her ID (that arrived in the mail) away and then threw the replacement away, too. Luckily, I found it sitting in the trash that time.
My mom also is the same with email and texts. She can no longer process marketing and promotional materials and will get very angry sometimes when we tell her it is junk. Sometimes it frightens her.
One final thing, when she calls toll free numbers like the bank she thinks she is speaking to the same person every time. She thinks the person at the branch (or cellular store or whatever) is the same person she was on the phone with as well. One time she got a man on the phone when she was used to dealing with women all the time and she was convinced he was a bad person trying to defraud her because he was not “the same girl I have been talking to for 20 years.”
All of these are related and signs of dementia. Your mom definitely sounds like she has dementia and you should have her evaluated if you have not already.
Invite her to a few events - but not all of them. If she asks why she wasn't invite to this one or that one, tell her that it was a very small gathering, or she didn't know the people there - or whatever. Inviting herself to events is just downright rude and if you allow her to attend all of them then she will expect to do so in the future. If she shows up unannounced - then just leave her. It is like dealing with a 2 year old - if you keep giving in to temper tantrums then they will grow up thinking they can get whatever they want without any consequences.
It is true that you teach people how to treat you - I learned that the hard way with my mother (and I was the only child). We would invite her over for example, to Christmas at our place (she lived 40 minutes away) and she would complain about the tree, the decorations, the meal, the music, etc etc. Ruined many a Christmases for us to the point where we don't even do them anymore - that way we didn't have to invite her. Sad - but had to keep our sanity.
Basically, nothing we did for her ever made her happy - and nothing ever would. Had to accept that even though at times it made me feel bad.