Why is this happening?
My son and I are trying to obtain guardianship over my mother, who is 88 and in the last stages of Alz/dementia. I've been her care taker for over a decade, and moved into her home at her request. My son also lives here, and quit college 3 years ago to help me care for her.
We knew there would be an initial hearing, but weren't informed of it until 30 minutes prior, so we rushed to get down there. I had spoken briefly to an attorney, who informed me that he would need the paperwork concerning the situation...my son and I received NO paperwork prior to this hearing. We got the paperwork 4 hours after the hearing was over. We didn't have any legal advice as we were waiting on this paperwork, and couldn't very well get a lawyer half hour before the proceedings. .
At the hearing, the CSC never spoke to us at all. She confined all of her conversation with the DSS worker and her attorney. The only thing she asked us were our names. We listened to these people discussing our case like we weren't even there, and at the end, the CSC said 'Ok, I'm going to appoint so and so...' I jumped in there and asked her if WE had any voice in all of this, or if that was just it. The CSC wasn't thrilled with my question, that was very plain. A conversation ensued from there.
During that conversation, she asked who paid the bills. My son and I said we did, because both of us do and have for awhile now. My mom, when she was still very much coherent, but had lost the use of her right hand due to numbness and couldn't write anymore, asked me to start writing the checks and to sign her name...I had been after my mom to give one of us POA, which she refused to do. When I brought up the many valid reasons a POA was a smart move, she refused to listen, insisting that she would 'never' decline to the point where she couldn't make her own decisions, and that we wouldn't ever need one. I knew better, but what could I do? Getting guardianship at that point wasn't even an option because she was mentally sound at the time. My hands were tied. It was either write the damn checks for the bills, or sit here in the dark! I felt uneasy, like I was between a rock and a hard place, but paid the bills anyway. What else could I have done? When I expressed my unease at doing this, she asked who was going to report me? I wrote and signed the damn checks, not knowing what the hell else to do.
Fast forward. My mom declined to the point where getting a POA was impossible, even if she had been willing. I continued paying the bills, signing her name as I'd been doing for quite awhile. What was the alternative? I was paying HER bills and that's it!
When the CSC heard me admit I paid the bills, she considered that a 'red flag'. without even asking a single question about the circumstances as to WHY I had been paying the bills, she then appointed a third party interim guardian and froze my mothers account! My son, Sean, has been on her account jointly for about 7-8 years now. He is co owner of all her lands and property. The only thing we've used my mom's money for is to keep up HER properties and rentals, and to care for HER needs and buy food! I can provide cancelled checks from years back proving that with no problem. With the exception of fraud on my part, signing her name on her checks at HER request, with her full knowledge, neither my son nor I have ever taken advantage of my mother. In fact, I supported HER financially the first 5 years I was here! If it wasn't for me moving in here when she asked, she wouldn't have any freaking assets to worry about! She admitted to being almost broke and unable to pay her bills, which was news to me.. It was my understanding that she was financially well off! If I hadn't shoveled so much of my own damn money into her account all those years, she wouldn't have been able to hold onto any of her assets, nor stay in her home, which is what she wanted. .
I am so disgusted and frustrated by all of this! I am angry with my mother for being so blind about the POA, and putting me in such a position in the first place I'm angry at the court for looking at me like I've done something horribly wrong.
By freezing that account, it has put my family in dire straits. I can't pay the bills nor can we eat! Yeah, damn, sorry, we DID eat on my mom's money.
Is what this clerk did legal? Can she, without any proof of wrongdoing whatsoever, freeze my mom's account, even though my son is on it jointly? My son is trying to get guardianship, and I have two other people interested that I trust completely. Could this clerk legally give guardianship to one of her buddies in the court system instead of people we would prefer and trust, without proof of any wrongdoing whatsoever?
After all we've done for my mother, I feel like my family has been done one hell of a great wrong here and I don't like where this is going..
40 Answers
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My God, when I think of all that we've done for my mom, all that we've done to help her, all that I have personally given, my money, my lost job, my effort, my time, my freedom, my future, every freaking thing, working brutal ungodly hours around the clock for her well being and safety...and to get treated this way...it's almost intolerable. I feel like I'm about to snap into a million pieces.
Thanks for the tip about Legal Aid. I'll be calling them today.
After I lost my job, I got on disability for anxiety. My mom insisted on going with me. My mom asked to speak to the case worker alone for some reason. I I asked her about it, what she had talked abut, but she was vague and blew me off....I thought no more of it... until I got my first disability check and HER name was on there! I went the hell off. I could not understand for the life of me why they put her on there! Now, I can't even use my OWN money for my family because SHE's still on there and her accounts are frozen! I can deposit the check into her account...which I've been doing for years at her insistence, because damn it, she had to have that money, too, but I can't get any of it OUT again!
Because of her stupidity with the POA, and somehow weaseling herself onto my disability checks...god knows what the hell she said to manage that...my family is dead in the water.
The irony of all this kills me. We do nothing but right by that woman, and end up screwed because of it!
Somebody freaking shoot me already..
when you are dealing with sick family member to talk to see what the courts can do to you??????
Bottom line is, YES, the courts can do just what happened to you -- appoint a non-family member as guardian and someone else as a fudiciary (I'm told) during an undetermined "interim period" while they investigate the case. The judge could agree to evaluate the case again in 6 mo...etc., etc. Also, they may have your mother medically and mentally evaluated by independent physicians who may or may not consider who previous medical records (by her family physician). They may interview other family members, neighbors, etc. regarding your mothers well-being. All this info is compiled and then considered by the court. I was told by the attorney that she wanted $3500 to file and go to court...sounded reasonable, but no guarantee we would gain guardianship. If she continued to battle the court, then the costs escalated from there and she said could go up...$10K or more.
I said forget it. I too was angry at my mom's secretive behavior with POA, financial accounts, etc. Luckily I'm not her full time caregiver; and my brother and I have decided that we will never file for guardianship if it comes to that, she's on her own and the courts, state, etc. can manage her and use her assets for her care.
If you aren't self-supporting, that leaves you and your son out in the cold. Likely, you won't be evicted from the home; but you will have to manage its upkeep and bills in the interim.
Contact legal aid, make sure you have all records of account transactions, doctor's names, list of assets for her etc. Also, contact attorney specializing in elder law -- sometimes they will give you advice for free or a free consult (thats what I did).
Lastly, do you have contact with your mom? What does she say? Does she know that she will now be under a guardian's care and decision making and that she will "not see you or her grandson again" (this isn't necessarily true, but a good scare tactic can you can use with her).
I dont know what to say to you this is just so wrong i cant imagine how you must feel now after everything youve done to help her and now this.
Im sick to my stomach that the law does not protect us and I will after reading this be hounding her for a POA now my family will back me up im sure.
Big hug although that means nothing now just hang in there you have to have some rights this is just awful and a warning to us all on this forum to get POA asap. Its just not fair I feel like screaming something is very wrong with this system just hang in there you deserve peace from all this and it will come. i will light a candle for you and pray you get this sorted.
x
Last year, I told my son that I was coming to the end of my endurance, that I felt my own health had declined so badly that I wasn't sure I could keep up those brutal freaking hours. When I say I worked 80-100 hour work weeks dealing with her, that's no exaggeration. With the exception of a couple hours of snatched sleep here and there, I was literally up around the clock. I was at a state of exhaustion and tiredness that literally made me feel physically ill. I mean, how much more was expected of me, how much longer could I possibly keep that up?
Since my son is on her property and accounts, we tried to get loans at first, to have her placed in a facility. Nope. Couldn't do it. We were told without POA, we couldn't do jack shit, including sell her property...for her own benefit! Every single avenue we tried to get the money to place her was blocked to us for lack of POA! I was at a point of desperation that's hard to describe. I wanted OUT of the damn caregiver role because it was literally killing me, but yet there I was, freaking TRAPPED in it like a rat in a cage because we couldn't liquidate any of her assets! My mom doesn't have nearly enough income or cash flow to pay for a NH out of pocket, so the only thing we could do was sell something, and even that wasn't an option! I was beside myself. I knew I was coming to the end of my endurance, but my mom's stupidity had very effectively caged me in this house as her care giver, whether I wanted it or not!
Me calling 911 that night and having my mom taken to the hospital, then refusing to pick her up was considered 'abandonment' by the so called professionals, and the doctor I talked to at the hospital admitted that from reports he had gotten, I was 'crazy'. Who the hell wouldn't be crazy after all of that? I resented like hell that I couldn't DO anything to place her, for her sake and mine!
Now, this C*NT of superior court treats me like I've done oh so WRONG by my mother, paying her bills! I took ADVANTAGE. I mean, what the hell?? If anybody freaking took advantage, it was my damn mother! First, by telling me that if I moved in here I wouldn't have to pay anything, assuring me that it would be a GREAT opportunity to save money, then changing the rules once she got me here! And again by very effectively TRAPPING me here as her care taker with no recourse whatsoever to have her placed!
Omg, I'm losing my mind. The injustice of this is astronomical. Try and do nothing but right, sacrifice yourself, your sanity, your health, and all you have until you're about to go into cardiac arrest, support your elder financially...and get kicked in the face because you...gasp!...abandoned the poor soul and 'took advantage' by paying their bills, at their insistence, AFTER they refuse you POA! . Can I freaking gag now?
am taking your advice and will get this damn thing sorted now this week and youre right no POA no care!
Im still shaking as to whats happened to you, if I believe in anything in my life is that "wrongs do become right".
Take care SA and keep talking here we wont see you crack we are all here for you!
I had POA over my dad and I signed stuff for him all the time, using HIS signature. When he was living out of town but coming back to town and I had to rent a house for us so I could care for him I signed his name to so much stuff (leases, etc) I probably could have gone to federal prison for 10 years. It was easier for me to sign his name than to try to explain to him what a fax was and where to find one. I think most of us have probably signed our loved one's names to one thing or another.
Of course you immediately need to file for financial aid from Medicaid for living expenses/food/healthcare, etc. In the meantime, see if you can get the court-appointed financial guardian to fork over some of 'YOUR' money to at least put food in the house. Also immediately, look up the State or county social services division and find the Legal Aid division - ElderLaw Unit. In your current financial circumstances you most certainly should qualify for FREE legal aid.
You have all of us shaking right along with you. Don't think you have followed my recent posts, but my Uncle who gave me DPOA and MPOA just recently, now decided he is sorry he gave me DPOA because he no longer has all his cash in his wallet (I am keeping excess in the bank). I told him at 92 he doesn't need to carry more than about $100 per month and he is having a fit - he can't go anywhere without me anyway! So next week we go back to the lawyer for a consultation. Based on everything he has been putting me through, and seeing what your ungrateful Mother has done to you with her rotten manipulation (on top of which you treated her with more decency than she ever deserved), It has just further enhanced my resolve to let my Uncle become a ward of the state if he insists on restricting or taking away the powers he just granted me. It's at the point that I need to be mentally and emotionally tougher than I ever was in my life. I will not let him suck every drop of my life out of me. Your situation has shown how it all can go horribly wrong, and horribly unjustly. I will be praying for you every night!
Long day. But, there is some very good news! They are looking at facilities now, and will place my mom soon. The DSS lady came by and talked about a couple of them, and we liked Highland House. I looked it up online, and if it's even half as nice as it looks on screen, it's very, very nice. They seem to have very high standards. I'm really hoping she'll be a lot happier, and get to be a lot more mobile. I feel a huge relief at this news.
I swear, I feel like I just went through hell and back trying to get my mom where I know she needed to be....a facility. I knew that getting her into a facility on my own was impossible without POA a year ago. As that year passed, I got more and more desperate...I needed out of the care giver role, my mom was just too much for me to handle anymore. I honestly had no idea what to do with her at home anymore. Nothing I tried, nothing I did, would keep her calm or distracted long...except food, and I couldn't feed her 24/7..
When my mom came out of respite this last time, I knew I was finished. I knew, that in order to get any kind of help at all and get out of this care giver role, I was going to have to go into operation 'premeditated craziness'....and I did. It's no wonder the docs, paramedics, nurses and cops thought I was a loon. It's sad as hell that I literally had to make myself out to be almost crazy, but what else? I talked all kinds of shit to convince them that they could NOT release my mom back to me that night. I had to make it very clear, I had to say it loudly so they'd GET it, that I was no longer willing or able to care for my mom.
Lord, almost a year of absolute desperation, realizing our hands were tied and we couldn't sell my mom's assets to put her anywhere. Every avenue we tried to get up the money to place her somewhere was nailed shut, every door we tried to open was slammed in our faces. I can't begin to describe that kind of frustration...that feeling of overwhelming horror that I was literally stuck, trapped, caged in a situation that had gotten really bad for my health, and that there literally was NO way out of the care giver role... that I'd have to deal with my mom until it killed me from sheer overload and exhaustion... I can't describe that feeling of utter helplessness and hopelessness. I knew in my gut I was at the end of the road in care giving, I had gone as far as I could go and I didn't have another step in me....but I couldn't get out of it...
So, I made myself look like a nut job in front of everybody and their brother. I yelled in their faces, I raised hell, I made threats, I did whatever the hell it took for them to get my mom out of the house and keep her out. I didn't feel malice towards my mom, I didn't do that out of spite, nor did I 'abandon' her.... I just couldn't DO it anymore, my hands were tied for money, and somebody was going to hear me..
It worked. Now, finally, my mom will be somewhere nice. But what a bitch to go through for me to make it happen... I had to convince half my town I was a loon, possibly dangerous even... Sheesh! It's ridiculous thinking about the damn lengths I had to go though to get my mom into a facility, where she needed to be a damn year ago! And now this huge guardianship fiasco on top of that... All this shit, for lack of a POA. My god.
Get your POA's people.
I think I should just make an apt with lawyer and bring her in. I don't feel shes doing it in malice shes just not thinking straight I don't like to push her its so tough apart from screaming your head off and saying your going to lose your mind so sign the damn papers ok? my family said they would call her and suggest she signs this? This is starting to become scary now as her house is her only asset to pay for her longterm health I want her in the best NH its her house and she deserves to be well cared for its not about money she hasn't got any just a pension.
Im lucky I have SWelfare BUT if she were to decline I would be in trouble paying bills etc..
Hope youre ok!
Will you update us on what the authorities will do with all that property/rentals, also? I mean, they will have to do something with it in order to pay for her new place. I'm just curious how they will do it since your son's name is also on it.