How do I help my grandmother (92) who is healthy physically but not mentally?

dsl, we had a similar situation with mother in law (mil) . When you empty her expired items, put them in your car and take them home to your garbage. That solves that end of the issue but not the overriding issue. Seniors with dementia, come to a point where they aren't able to live on their own. This is difficult for everyone on this site to come to grips with and many of us have experienced it.
Please understand that dementia means her brain is broken as another poster on this site (Jeanne) says. If you haven't already done so, check out the alzheimers website for issues those with dementia often face and some ideas on how to handle it. 'Confronting' her won't help. You just have to smile and fix the problem without her seeing it or saying a word.
When I visited MIL, I always had a large shopping type bag with me. When she went to the bathroom I would start tossing the outdated stuff into the bag. Blueberries with mold, open snacks with an expiration date 3 years ago, etc. Getting other stuff out was more challenging. But over the course of several years, we loaded up the entire back of a SUV several times over. We moved her twice more and each time huge amounts of 'stuff' went out the door in garbage bags. Accumulations continued with her many visitors and we would start all over again.
Can you get an occasional 'companion' that would be able to help toss stuff? You really have to b e like a thief in the night!

Do you have someone that can visit with you so you can 'double team' Grandma? While one person distracts, the other clears out. I would move stuff out into the hall when she was distracted. Then before we actually were leaving, I would say that I needed something from the car (a small gift or book for her, my glasses, whatever). I would leave with the stuff I had put into the hall and bring them to the car. Return with the stated item - and she never caught on. the good part
of memory loss is that she wouldn't notice that the moldy blueberries were gone! : - )
It took us 2 full years after she had regular housekeeping services (and she could no longer stand without a walker) to get her to agree to let go of her 2 (OLD) vacuum cleaners. The winning statement? My church is having a collection for household items for people who just moved here. Those vacuum cleaners would be SO appreciated! Ditto on some clothing items that no longer fit her. You will see references to therapeutic lying or gentle story telling on this site. It does work!

Dsl, geewiz is right. When the brain is faltering, there is no talking them into" anything because while logic might work for a moment, it won't last. You really do have to be "sneaky". It will be the hardest love you ever have to give but someone needs to look out for your Grandmother. It can be a delicate balancing act between treating her like a child while maintain respect for her wishes ...for the person she *used to be*. Try to come up with plans of how to accomplish goals by breaking things down to one step at a time. Read the many posts here from others who have managed to get loved ones moved despite their lack of cooperation.

Dsl7334, is anyone else helping grandmother? You can only do so much. Do you accompany her to Dr. Visits? I found the best way to convince my mother she needed to move to Assisted Living was to get her family physician on board. Set up an appointment but speak to the Dr. ahead of time to clue them in. Get a state worker involved if needed. Your grandmother needs 24/7 supervision.

I am the only care giver at this point. My mother passed away in November of MS and she was an only child. My siblings live out of state so that leaves me. I do take her to all her doctors appointments and that is how I finally got her meals on wheels once a day. My grandmother refuses to move out of her home. I just recently took her to her physical and the doctor mentioned her moving to assisted living but nothing else came of it and like I said my grandmother refuses. I can't get her on medicaid because of her income....I have tried. I feel like I fighting a losing battle.

I grew up in an era when there were no expiry labels. I guess when things grew more naturally and were not machine or pesticide driven and I am much younger than your gran. I absolutely HATE throwing away food and first like to taste it, to test it's quality. It is how it was done in the old days. Lets face it, a chicken or cow do not tell when those eggs or milk would be going off. We do cope with less as we age.  Do not let her cry, if you can help it. I understand your gran.  I also understand your concern. But at 92 I would recommend help for her, even if once weekly. It's wonderful that she copes physically, but there is only so much she can cope with at that age.  Go well. : )

gratefulmouse, both you and your husband need a break from your mother, and you need it now!! Get your own doctor on your side and tell him or her that you both need a break from caring from your mother and that she must be admitted to a nursing clinic with 24/7 residential care for a full check up, especially neurological, with brain scans and ECGs.

This will give you both a few days on your own in your house when you know you will not be interrupted. Use this time to take a good look at your own health needs and those of your husband, state them clearly on paper and make an appointment with the doctor who is treating your mother. Explain that both you and your husband definitely do not want to continue to feel responsible for this 83 year Alzheimer's relative either under her roof or under yours, because neither of you is strong enough physically or mentally to accept such stress on top of treating your own sicknesses. Ask the doctor to contact any available local services and to advise on the most appropriate secure residential care and to pull strings to find a permanent place.


It is much easier to get a dementia patient into a care home from a clinic than it is to transfer them from their home. Once your mother is placed, in order to keep her residence permanent, that is the moment to empty her house of its contents, store them somewhere and fix up the house for sale. If she objects, then if you have got an attorney on your side working with you and holding the moneybags, she cannot stop this process. Never ever let a care home "take care" of a resident's finances. Your siblings could and should contribute towards this house activity.

Supposing your mother lived another 7 - 10 years? She would be in her nineties, but with incredibly reduced brain activity. Can anybody really expect a couple in their seventies to provide care without a great deal of professional help if the authorities drove your mother over to you and dumped her in your laps? I don't think so.
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Tell everybody you know, and all your family that - it's time. Time that somebody else looked after your mum. Your husband's wellbeing is now more important than hers, because he does have serious health issues. Make sure they all understand that Alzheimer's patients in their 80s become highly narcissistic as their perceptions and brain faculties wane. They don't care a hoot in the end who is looking after them as long as food is put in front of them and there is a plentiful supply of sanitary pants and padding.

Do you have POA? If you're going to be tasked with stepping up, you need to have the proper tools. Does grandma have too many "liquid"/cash assets to qualify for Medicaid? If so, you may want to pursue an appointment with an attorney who specializes in Medicaid - tell Grandma it's to preserve her assets & be sure her affairs are in proper order. (If you don't have POA, this will probably be covered & the attorney may explain, if not you, then some stranger may have this control over her affairs should there come a time she "can't". ) Have you looked into:
California Supportive Services Programs

The Older Americans Act (OAA) seeks to enable all older individuals to maintain their well-being through locally developed community-based systems of services. The OAA Title IIIB Supportive Services Program provides a variety of services to address functional limitations, maintain health and independence, and promote access.

The Title IIIB Supportive Services Program enables older adults to access services that address functional limitations, promote socialization, continued health and independence, and protect elder rights. Together, these services promote older adults' ability to maintain the highest possible levels of function, participation and dignity in the community.

Title IIIB provides funding for a variety of supportive services programs, some of which are noted here:

Personal Care, Homemaker, and Chore programs provide assistance for individuals who otherwise could not remain in their homes.
Adult Day Care/Adult Day Health offers social and recreational activity in a supervised, protective, congregate setting during some portion of a 24 hour day.
Case Management provides for an individual to conduct a comprehensive assessment of a frail older adult's needs and arrange for in-home services.
Assisted Transportation is door-to-door transport, which may include escort services for those who cannot use the public transportation system.
Transportation includes vouchers for reduced rates on public transit, van transport to congregate meals, medical appointments, etc.
Legal Assistance includes legal advice, counseling, and representation by an attorney or legal staff.
Information & Assistance services assist with identification of appropriate resources to meet the specific needs of individuals.
OutreaOutreach initiates contacts with potential clients to encourage their use of existing services.
Eligibility

Income - No requirement

Age - 60 years or older

Cost - There is no charge for the Supportive Services Program.

Access

Information on Supportive Services Program services is available through the statewide toll-free Information and Assistance Line at

1-800-510-2020 or contact the Area Agency on Aging.

Perhaps try taking her on an outing for a visit to an AL facility or two. No pressure for just a visit to see what she thinks of the place. Maybe you could even tell her you're thinking of moving there or checking it out for a friend and want her opinion. If she sees the reality of the environment, not as a facility, but as a pleasant place to live with assistance nearby if you need it, maybe she will think it doesn't sound so bad. You can point out the advantages over her current home without sounding like you are taking decision-making power away from her. In the long term, if she doesn't poison herself first, she will probably have the decision-making power turned over to someone who may not do as she would have preferred. This is what motivates me to look into what facilities I'd prefer while I am still well able to take care of myself and my own home. And, almost every time I visit, I think, "Ohhh, this is nice. I wouldn't mind moving here right now."
She may not know what's available.
Also, ask the agency who is providing her meals on wheels to send someone to check on her and see if they can provide counseling or advice.
God bless you for caring!

You actually specified a dumpster, it's right in your description so here's what I have to say about dumpster diving because if anything happens to grandma, whoever owns or rents this dumpster is responsible if anything happens to anyone who chooses to go dumpster diving. People get stuck in these big dumpsters every day  when they get inside them and there's not enough trash for them to step on and safely exit the dumpster. For all we know, people may have actually been stuck in these dumpsters for days because they couldn't get out. Now compound that with extremely hot or cold weather and it spells disaster for whoever happens to be stuck in there.  Anyone with an ounce of sense would know these days to put a lock on the dumpster. I'm telling the truth, dumpsters are dangerously big and dumpster diving can be very dangerous for dumpster divers if they happen to get stuck in there or get hurt on something and they can't get out.  Even if you had someone with you, there's no guarantee they will be able to get you out especially if they happen to be on the outside. You may have a better chance getting out if someone was down there with you, but what about your partner who lift you out and up over the top? If there's not enough trash  in the dumpster for that other person to get out, they get stuck especially if it happens to be after hours. Can you imagine the embarrassment of having the cops show up and finding someone stuck in the dumpster? Yep, someone needs to put a lock on it or they will be held responsible if something happens to someone who gets stuck, hurt or dies in, on or near their dumpster, and there will most likely be a lawsuit depending on the severity of the situation because there will definitely be heavy fines. 

Just from your description, it sounds to me like you live at an apartment complex or near a place that owns or rents a dumpster. I don't know who owns the dumpster, but maybe the owner or person renting the dumpster should try putting a lock on it before someone gets hurt or killed. Ever wonder why businesses with common sense actually put locks on the dumpsters and even fence some of them in? It's for safety reasons. 

If you don't believe me, ask yourself these questions: 

* What if she ever went dumpster diving and got stuck in there and no one knew for quite a while, maybe even hours? 

* What if she was in there at the wrong time and the trash truck came by and emptied the dumpster not knowing she was actually in there at the time? 

Yep, sounds like it's time for whoever owns the dumpster to put a lock on it, and quite possibly her in a facility before someone gets hurt dumpster diving

As for the liquid assets and qualifying for Medicaid, if she has a car for starters and she can no longer drive, she should sell it and use the money for her own care. Here in Ohio though, as far as I understand you can have one home and it's actually exempt as long as you live in it and one vehicle is also example for medical transportation, and it's usually the higher value one. 

* Now that able accounts are available, you can have thousands of dollars up to a much higher than you otherwise would without it. Yes, they can put limits on you and less you have an able account. You can only have one able account in any state whereas it used to be restricted to just the state you live in. Now it's open to wherever you want to open and able account, but you can only have one. Here in Ohio, it's actually called stable. You may explore your options and decide whether an able account is right for your grandma because you're going to want to decide if you want Medicaid later grabbing the funds in that account because you're probably going to need the funds to bury her with when she goes. Therefore, you may want to get some money aside and help her set up her final wishes and pay for them before they're needed. This is called a preneed but don't give the money directly to the funeral home in case something happens and they go under or turn out to be dishonest. Only pay the money to the insurance company and have a few assets set aside to liquidate just in case something happens and you need to liquidate those assets for a source of emergency money