Children who don't help. How do you handle it?

I wished the person we are caregiving was able to do that,
it should be a reduced share,
because you are doing all the work, like a spouse.

Lets say there are only the two of you,
money left should be carer worked for half
and the rest should then be divided by the two giving you 75% and him 25.

Depends on how long, but at least two years...
The siblings here put on the trust that if someone objects, they forfeit their share?
I do not even know if that is legal, the sentence before but that is what it says...
just because he contests does not mean he'll win...
how is your father's capacity, been declared anything yet...

My parents were in the same situation - three children and only the second child living with them experiencing and caring for them with no offer to help from the other two. One month before his passing, Dad had an attorney come to the house to make final arrangements for his will, durable power of attorney and health care proxy for both himself and my mother. Dad endured his pain and kept hoping their other two children would change...but to no avail. Things were set in motion, (the attorney had a way of testing the competency of both elderly people with another attorney as a witness) and he passed away knowing his wife could live the remainder of her days without the fear of being threatened or harassed. This will present problems in the future, but the attorney assured us the documents provided ironclad protection for all. Perhaps this might be something you could consider. Our parish church had an attorney ( a member of the church) who worked with parishioners for a discounted price.

Experienced this situation? Sometimes I feel as if you can never get away from it…

Your brother feels aggrieved that he is to inherit a smaller share of any estate than you are. Rather than examine why this might have come about, he is no doubt comforted to attribute your father's change of heart to your undue influence and not to his own failings as a son. Of course I don't know what your brother would have to say for himself, but I'd be surprised if he would even agree that he has fallen short. I would expect him to come up with all kinds of self-justifications; if you're lying awake one night with nothing better to think about, you can even amuse yourself by imagining what these might be.

This states the obvious, I know; but I believe it helps if you understand why a person is behaving as he is. It stops one entering on a spiral of mistrust that can lead to all sorts of destructive, exaggerated perspectives.

If your father wishes you to benefit from a larger inheritance, and not burden you instead with the nightmare of possible litigation and devastated family relationships, then as Pixie outlines above he has got to make things crystal clear and in particular demonstrate to appropriate witnesses that he is making sound decisions with a sound mind. He may feel he doesn't have to explain himself, and legally speaking he doesn't, he can do what he likes with his own money; but if he wishes to avoid trouble down the line for you then that is what he must do.

You can have no part in this. The most assistance you can provide is as a telephonist, arranging for your father at his own request to see independent counsel without you present. You should not comment on his plans, you should not be present at any meetings, you should have no more to do with the drawing up of any will or letter of wishes than your brother has. And I don't just mean for form's sake; I mean to be at ease in your own mind that you have not had any undue influence on your father's wishes. If your father wants to share what he's doing with you, it's difficult, he'll be expecting you to be glad of his loving appreciation; but you could always try explaining that you trust in his appreciation without the need to expect any more than that.

Many people seem to find the issue a no-brainer: that the caregiving child, particularly when others have actively refused to take part in their parents' care, acquires some kind of natural moral right to a greater share in any estate than its siblings. I don't agree. Assuming you care for your parents out of filial duty, without mercenary motives, then by what right do you merit a larger share of the estate?

I speak, by the way, as the youngest child and only caregiver among four siblings. I'm here to look after my mother as well as I can. I am not angling for favours, or entertaining any lively expectations about her jewellery, whatever my sister my suspect me of. And in order not to worry about how it looks to any outside observer, I literally don't want to know what's in my mother's will. I'm not asking, I'm not looking, I do not hear my mother on the odd occasions when she makes reference to it, I do not want to know.

There is of course the other hand. Again, nothing to do with what you want: the other hand is that your father has a right to make his own choices. I personally would find it interesting to know what he most wants to achieve: rewarding you? Punishing your ingrate brother? Two birds with one stone? I wonder how much he wants to punish his son. But it sounds as if he has, as you say, reflected deeply on this and come to his own conclusion. I would comment, if I were his advisor, that he's not allowing his son much wriggle room for redemption; but that really isn't your problem.

Or it's not your problem as long as you're not blocking any possible rapprochement which would benefit your father. Be careful, especially if feelings run high over your brother's current behaviour. Watch yourself, because being objective and fair with someone who's behaving atrociously is terribly difficult.

I'm not suggesting you can engineer some marvellous reconciliation and stand by beaming on the pair of them as they embrace once again, even if you feel the slightest inclination to attempt it. All I'm saying is: stay out of it, make sure you're not in anybody's way.

So, your brother is already contesting the trust. You can't be surprised. You can see why he would. If your father has done everything by the book, your brother cannot possibly succeed in law. So all you have to do is work very hard to let this pass, put it behind you and carry on as if it had never happened. Very stressful, the last thing you need, and pretty despicable on your brother's part; but on the scale of things? Taking care of your father is your infinitely more important goal: keep your eyes on that.

It so happens I'm off to the lawyers in an hour to see about removing financial POA from two of my siblings to someone, anyone, who does not have a vested interest in my mother's estate. I'll let you know if I succeed in sticking to my own advice..! Wish me luck; I wish you all the best.


PS Just an afterthought: did your father, in the past, make any promises to your brother, perhaps ones that you were never previously aware of, or allow him to believe there was some kind of understanding? I'm thinking that, if so, it would also help to explain your brother's sense of grievance. Something to bear in mind as a possibility, maybe.

I think a better solution is to ensure that the children who are the caregivers be gifted "before" the parent dies. Why leave it in a will for the siblings to argue over? Everyone knows who the helpful caregiver is and that is the person who deserves to be gifted with what the parent sees as appropriate.

Your father does not have dementia and is fully competent to change his will, he is not dead, don't know what the brother is talking about contesting what. Too bad for him, just let the lawyer change the will end of.

I've been on this website for a long time. My dad has passed away but I keep coming back to share my experiences and to give support to those who are still going through caring for a parent. I've realized an unexpected bonus to coming back here and that's gratitude. The lazy sibling, the crazy sibling, the non-helpful sibling, the unsupportive sibling.....It seems to be the rule rather than the exception. I guess I was the exception. I didn't ask my brother for help for a long time because I figured he'd be unwilling to help. He didn't offer to help because he didn't know what to do. When it got to the point where I was nearing a breakdown I cried and sobbed to my brother and he jumped in that day and we became partners in caring for our dad. When it came time to dissolve my dad's annuity I planned on splitting it 50/50 with my brother (it wasn't much, about 10k). My brother insisted I take it all since I had been caring for our dad all those years. I still gave my brother several thousand dollars and we were both satisfied with this. And aside from having someone take some of the burden off of me I found a best friend in my brother. We had always been fairly close but caring for my dad together cemented that bond. The night our father died my brother told me he loved me. We had never said that to eachother as adults before. The last six months of my dad's life were a nightmare, not just for him but for all of us but I think it would please my dad to no end to know that he was instrumental in bringing my brother and I closer.

I know this is the exception and not the rule. I always like to share my experience when I can.

Eyeirishlass, my sympathies for your loss, it is beautiful to hear that the door closing on your dad, opened the door for your brother and you now to have a relationship, I always find it amazing how the universe works.

It used to be very typical language in wills to leave a bequest to the "person who cared for me during my last illness." It was acknowledgement that whether that person was family or not, they deserved some compensation and that the person who was cared for wouldn't be around to express their gratitude.
It's probably best (in many ways) for a parent who's being cared for by one of their children more than the rest to just give a pre-determined amount of money each month or year. Write up the agreement formally. There's nothing to argue over once the parent dies. All the siblings share in what's left.

Compensating the caregiving child via a will does not make any sense to me. The caregiver should be paid (not gifted) as the work goes on. This arrangement should be written up and it should spell out what is provided and what the payment amount is. It should be updated if services and/or costs escalate. Then whatever is left (if anything) can be distributed evenly in the will.

Gifted or paid isn't it the same thing?

At least with getting paid, the parent still qualifies, for medicaid
(for medicare, medicaid 5 yr.look back for "care giving" expense qualifies,
"gifting" has to be paid back, by whoever receives it, and it time disqualifies them from entering a long term care facility, when you might really need it...)

either way the care giver should get paid.

I, myself am tired of the double standard, that is given to caregivers
caring for Elders, in their own home is every bit a job, as a CNA, which these days, do everything, from taking out the garbage (not much medical there) to checking b/p's
in a long term care facility , which any person caring in the home can do, but some how in-home-care provided by a friend or family member is seen as somebody trying to live off the person/parent?

Q:Why?

A: Because in some distant past their was somebody, taking the SS check to buy beer and not taking care of the parent or taking advantage of the parent and now that stereotype is, what runs through peoples heads, when you talk about being compensated for your time.

Even if you were at home and not working, when you are taking care of someone and no longer have your privacy, you are working...

The STATE saves money by having family members or friends provide in home care
for the elder and it should be paid for just like it was outside the home.

Even long-term-care in the home qualifies a person to get paid under"Cash and Counseling" in Illinois, other states in the U.S. have other programs that pay you up front and when it comes to sale of the house, if you have been caregiving for two years or longer, there is another provision/stipulation regarding are not suppose to sell the house as long as she is living, which is what makes this situation so tragic, that our 86 year old who had long term *unpaid) caregivers and was living in her own home being adequately cared for, was forced to sell her home, in court by the GAL when she should have been allowed to stay, no matter what the dysf.sib's wanted. Their lawyer insisted in the GAL and now she has a guardian and a bank, those people all get paid and we the caregivers of the person get zip 0.
Q: Why?
A: Because the system is corrupt.

I am trying to get a Senior Law passed like the "Amber Alert"
for caregivers to use to be compensated for all they do...why shouldn't they be?
if everyone else CAN GET PAID.

Court is December 2, will keep you all informed.



Personally in a case of two sisters,
one sister who did the careggiving was awarded half of the inheritance,
noting different here folks but was ALSO AWARDED a half of the rest of the estate.

So one sister who did the caregiving, received 75%
and the other sister who did nothing received 25%

In my case, I am not a family member but an upstairs tenant,
when I paid for the 86 year old's medicine, I expected to be reimbursed.

Why wasn't I?
They (dysf.sibs) said, they never asked me (neglect?).

Well, that could have been worse. It strikes me that when you have a situation that has more than one facet, you're going to exhaust your legal budget just getting the lawyers to concentrate on the problem for long enough. Oh dear. At least I haven't come out of there with a lawyer on a leash snarling and snapping, but I'm not much further forward either.

Advice is that the Public Guardian/Court of Protection has too many cases of serious evil on its hands to worry about one little old lady who's being taken good care of having her living expenses trimmed by responsible, forward-thinking financial POAs - no, not even if their forward thinking concentrates on the welfare of the money rather than the welfare of their mother. The authorities have real fraud, embezzlement and goodness knows what else to worry about, not to mention actual abuse. Put it all down in writing, says Mr Lawyer, then if the POAs decline to shell out their mother's own money on their mother's own benefit, they will have to give good reasons in proper form. Ah, he makes it sound so easy!

I'm just so tired of this. I want to get my mother some lined woollen trousers, nice ones. And what's wrong with her old ones? 1. They're old. 2. They're covered in pulled threads from her cat's claws, and they weren't all that to start with. 3. She used to buy trousers from horrible catalogues stuffed with 2 for 1 offers, as little old ladies are wont to do, even though she could easily afford much better, warmer clothes. (4. Just get out of the goddamned way and let me get on with looking after my mother, will you, you miserable cheese-paring old cow? - only you don't say that one, of course)

There's a pause for thought. Then the answer: well, it's not really worth it, is it? The old ones will last.

I can't face having to go through all this every time my mother needs a pair of knickers. I can't bear it. Anyone got any ideas?

Sorry, way off topic. I'll try to form this into a question when I can bear thinking about it any more. Apologies.

The ones who do the least often expect the most

Dreyfuss, you said it. My family is exactly that way and I have 8 living siblings. Sometimes I have thrown up my arms and said, here you take over all of this and all of the caregiving and I will gladly sit back and watch from afar. they scatter so quickly.

People with dementia have rights too!

Just because they do not know
what they ate for breakfast or
just walked in from day care

doesn't mean that they do not know, if they want to be in a nursing home or not!

Some years ago I heard a story I couldn't believe. Well, I believe it now. A woman lived with and cared for her parents for years. When the parents died, the other siblings reasoned that she was not entitled to any inheritance because she had lived with them rent-free.

OMG!

That's not the way it went in Grandmother's family. The brother who had lived with his parents for 20+ years was considered to have earned the right to the entire (modest) inheritance. He had not even had a long period of nursing to go through. Just his presence shovelling snow and buying groceries and providing a safety net was valued.

I think many families operate that way. We just don't hear about them that much because the people who show up here are largely the ones with the least support.

Countrymouse - I'm assuming the POA is refusing to fork over the bucks - excuse me, that's pounds, right? - for new clothes.

How about asking for a quarterly budget to cover replacing clothing as needed? If you were given a few hundred pounds a year and the discretion to spend that much and no more, that might feel fairer to both of you. Ask the sib how much s/he spends on clothes a year.

Of course Mom doesn't need to spend a thousand a year, but her nightclothes are getting thin and shabby. How about 1/4 as much as your sib's own clothing budget? That way, you would feel that you are being given authority and power to do what's needed. You shouldn't have to beg and negotiate over new warm socks!

The reason to pay the caregiver now is that there may be no inheritance! Even a millionaire can end up on Medicaid. (Here in the Northeast, a house can easily be worth $500,000 and up. So lots of us are millionaires, without actually being more than a little wealthy.)

So ask Dad for a wage for caregiving, and report it and pay Social Security tax to make sure your retirement won't be too difficult. You can tell your brother that he, too, can earn money this way if he wants to take over during your vacation!

Jinx, thank you, and yes, you're right; all I need to do is figure out some kind of requisition/purchase order/receipt type system that she can grasp with her horrible twisted banker's brain (but sadly tiny mind - yeah ok I'm venting) and all will go smoothly. It's just that I have a serious problem with my dear sister that is not entirely her fault - it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. I can't open my mouth without irritating the hell out of her; she can't do it without being quite incredibly insulting to me. Habit of a lifetime, I suppose.

Aaarggggghhh. If my mother's lawyer had tried to come up with a POA solution that would cause maximum stress to everybody involved I don't think she could have done a better job of it.

But if I hear my sister say "waste of limited medical resources" once more in the context of a conversation about care for the elderly I will bash her brains out with her own Vuitton handbag. What jury would convict me?

Interestingly, I live here rent free, have done since the caring business killed off my freelance business and my mother and my partner undertook my share of the bills. I may not sleep that well tonight...

Gosh siblings can be evil! Worst I ever heard was a son who gave up his job to care for his mum for over ten years moved in with her but she never changed her will?? the daughter got the house AND i kid you not told him to leave as she was selling the house I know he was contesting the will and hope to god he got his share makes you really wonder about people and what they are capable of when it comes to money.

Country mouse we have the same sister not a banker but works in a bank? I will get away with murder here one day with her I am very ill chest pains(she knows this and couldnt careless) I am going into hospital tom for an angiogram she just rang tonight to ask me to wash a top for her as shes coming at the weekend???? My chest pains are pretty bad now she never even asked me about the tests? I dream of the day that I never have to see her sorry face ever again how can you cope with thier CRAP and not get angry or stressed or worse ILL? I mean im a pretty tough person but this sibling CRAP is just hard to stomach. Off to bed now perchance to dream!!!! I dream that im in MY HOUSE that im caring for mum and as its my house i dont have to talk to or see my sister or brother that when they come visiting I put mum outside the front door to be collected and returned when theyve gone back! Youve no idea how wonderful that would be for me definetly getting my own place next year and if mum dosnt move with me then its a NH as i want no more dealings with this big happy family!
"tis the season to be jolly" MY ASS.

Sopke to a girl yesterday she is looking after mum and dad (dementia and parkinsons) she lives with them gave up her job to look after them NO HELP from siblings BUT she gets the house as they dont want to know she says she dosnt want the house she wants her life back ( she is 35 and has just had 3 stents put in?) I felt so sorry for her but told her that she needs to let go of the house and put them both into care and get her life back she will still get something and she agreed money means nothing when your heart packs in! Imagine shes 13yrs younger than me and already 3 stents from stress. Yep stuff the money I want a life.

My condolences. I too had stress related cardiac issues. The MD's at the VA hospital warned me of future problems. Seems they were more in-tuned with my father's demise than I had been. Since Dad's passing, the stress has been eliminated and the need for cardiac meds gone. There is a definite relation between our life and forfeiting it for the care of our parents through love. Would I do it all again? Absolutely. After learning all they had done for their own three children, it seems like a drop in the bucket to reciprocate. No regrets. Wish I could have done more.

Your brother is an expletive deleted!!!!

I have a difficult time understanding people. An elderly man is deemed legally and medically competent, and yet his final wishes are disputed. Who are we to dispute this? All of us, without knowing the specifics of these individual cases, should limit our advice and opinions. Those whose lives are waning have definite reasons for making the decisions they do. It isn't until all the cards are on the table that the truth is revealed (both sides of the story are told). After all is said and done, I have dedicated the last 15 years of my life to the care and wellbeing of both parents...and would not hesitate to do it again. Money?? This cannot replace any loss. Again...no regrets. After what my parents have sacrificed for all of us (WW 2 generation) NOTHING

Kazzaa: "... I am going into hospital tom for an angiogram she just rang tonight to ask me to wash a top for her as shes coming at the weekend…"

??????????????????????

Am I reading that right?

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Where does she get the NERVE?

Mine's coming tomorrow (my mother says: "oh that's nice." Mm-hm). Hope she's bringing her own lunch…(she won't): I'll be busy itemising receipts in triplicate.

I swear CM i am thinking of ways to piss her off this weekend this is not healthy behaviour OR IS IT??
She arrives at midnight on friday then she will get up wash and have SOME friend to meet for coffee then show her face with mum then maybe out to dinner then maybe spend time with mum at some stage on sunday then fly back monday she will maybe wash a few dishes but ignore the bathrooms etc.. and shes decided to come home at least every six weeks TO HELP OUT?? Please god send me the money to get my own place and soon!

Healthy would be give her a To Do list. Make sure the bathroom's No. 1. And leave wet towels on the floor (no ok the last bit would be childish). But if she's going out anyway she could at least run some errands for you. Seriously, have 'em ready. She's coming back to, er, help out isn't she?

Mine arrives at 11:00. If I'm in an incredibly good mood I will make a stollen in the morning to get her in the right spirit for starting on my mother's Christmas cards - this is my ploy to make her do something normal and fun with my poor mum so she (mum) doesn't end the visit with a migraine. Mind you, it depends what kind of night's ahead. If it's getting up three times +, I'm not apologising to anyone if the cupboard is bare and they can make their own coffee...

Kazzaa, Trick her into helping. When she shows up, tell her how glad you are that she has come to help. Do have a list of chores to give her. Make it long enough so that she can choose things she's willing to do. Praise her for what she does.

Would you prefer to trick her into helping, or continue to be angry and help-less because she should know better? The choice is yours. I often choose to stay angry, but not always.

I'm talking through my hat because my family is pretty good to me. If I were in your shoes, I would be sitting on the kerb weeping and tearing my hair.

jinx I dont have to tear my hair out it just falls out!!!!!!!! No i have decided to do nothing except check in on my cat I will stay with friends at night and be away during the day crazy isnt it I could stay away but cant trust her to look after my cat? (what a life) hes my baby and I worry about him BUT get this my mum takes better care of him than my sister yes and shes got dementia? the last time she was home she moaned about how she had to get up to let the cat out so I yelled at her and said well poor you im woken up EVERY NIGHT by OUR MOTHER so suck it up! the very fact that she moaned just raises my heart rate with anger. My friend says "dont ever put me in the same room as her" she is on another planet and thinks shes great to come home and help? Last year I told her to take mum for a week as i was drained(she lives in paris) the cunning fox had mum over when my aunt was there so she yet again didnt have to look after her? but hey she had her for a week?
What hurts the most is mum wonders why im nasty to her she says youre just jealous because she has a job??????????? Yep and i sit on the sofa all day everyday doing nothing and watch "dog bounty hunter". When I had a row with my sister last year she said what do you want me to do I dont live there? I asked her to pick up the phone and make calls she said "well I work you have time on your hands??" Yeh you gotta back away ive given up as my anger just makes me ill. when mum goes I will vent and let it all out then dont want her in my life again. My friends mum was very ill recently I was jealous of how the 2 sisters just got on with it and put mums care above all else and worked together isnt that the way is should be?
My sister has been seeing a shrink for 10years?? you would think shed have told him about mum and being a pro hed tell her how hard this would be on a carer but obviously not? Still hes getting $150 an hour to listen to her crap why jeopardise that nice little income?
Oh and just so you know she had my poor mum frustrated and searching all over for her TOP that needs washing?
Ive tried the leaving a list TRICK? she tells mum and then mum starts a fight with me "you leave her alone she works hard?" yes she is 45 yrs old and even though mum has dementia she plays all the childish cards of a six yr old knowing that mum will tell her to ignore me as im "NUTS" oh and jealous because shes working and im not?
Heres to a great weekend!!! LOL

PS I will let you all know if my sister gets to wear the "TOP" in the end im sure youre all dying to know!!!!
Hey just had a great idea? why not do a sitcom not of als patients but sibling crap around als NOW THAT WOULD BE FUNNY!!