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As an old Vet, I have seen many deaths and the horror always comes back to me. If a loved one is dying is it wrong not to go visit if they know longer know you? When my wife's aunt died, (who I loved very much) all I can remember is her lying in her casket. This has haunted me all my life. Today I do not want to see someone on their death bed or see them in an open casket.
I had to watch my mother die, I was horrified. She had left instructions NOT to have and open casket, but my sisters ignored her wishes. I was furious.
I did her memorial service and only spoke of the good parts of her life, as though she had never died. That is how I want to remember loved ones, as though they have simply gone away.

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I think it's a personal decision and you should do what you feel comfortable with. You state that you are an old Vet. Let me thank you for your service to our country. You certainly have seen a lot and I would think anyone would understand your decision to forego things like open caskets or someone near death. Do what you feel is right for you. I'd have peace with that.

I don't want to particularly visit under those circumstances, but as my cousin's POA and only involved family member, I have no choice. I will be there with her to the end with her struggle with dementia. I understand why some stay away. It's understandable.
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Wrong? Not at all... you do what you can live with.
I visited my dad till I knew it was his last couple of days - even though it wasnt apparent he was on his last couple days, I knew it.
I did not want to be there when he passed, or after because I knew it would put me over the edge again. The cremation place came and took what was him, but wasnt any more.
My memories are now of him talking to me of happy days, I still feel as though he is in the NH joking and well.
Do what you need to do as far as visiting- I sat and held his hand and told him i loved him, and left knowing i would not go back because i knew he was passing.
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I can understand your feelings. I didn't go see my uncle when he was in LTC, he had Dementia. Even though I had worked in LTC and delt with Dementia and residents passing away. With my uncle it was personal, I wanted to remember him as he was. I was with my brother when he was taken off ventilator and he passed. I wish I hadn't been there, I will never forget his eyes. My mother is 89 and I do not want to be there when her time comes. I know she won't be alone,the staff is wonderful at her LTC.

You do what is right for you... yes Thank You for your service!
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Skyhigh, at first I saw only the headline of your post - is it wrong to not see a person dying, but wanting to remember them as they were? - which gave me the wrong impression.

Mica's comment that you should do what you can live with must be true. And especially it is certainly true in the circumstances you go on to describe, where the person to be visited is either unaware or already gone.

But if the person is in the process of dying, and wants to see you, it's a different kind of question. Unfortunately I have known circumstances where family members stayed away because it was too "traumatic" (if they'd been through your experiences, I wouldn't be curling my lip at that word I assure you) to visit. "He gets so depressed to see your mother going downhill." "Oh, but you know I hate hospitals!" Oh dearie me. Poor them.

In spite of your internal scars, you were there when your mother needed you, and you paid your respects in every way that mattered. You have nothing to be ashamed of. Others do.
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This is a delicate and personal question. Having said that I believe if it is at all possible for someone to see a loved one before they pass away..they should do it. Maybe not even for yourself but for someone else. Maybe the one dying or maybe for a family member that needs the support. Yep,it is difficult, but life is hard and something's cannot be redone. I was able to give my sister spiritual comfort 12 days before she passed. The family did not allow me with her again, but I knew in my heart she was secure and have taken great comfort for myself and my mom. I was the only one there as my dad passed because people kept leaving because it was so hard. It was the sweetest time to hold my dad's hand as he breathed his last breath. My brother refuses to come see his 89 year old mother and I find that so very selfish. I am losing my mother everyday to dementia. So with this input may God give you the strength to make the right decision and to have peace with it.
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I think it does matter a great deal whether the person is aware of their surroundings and if there's a possibility of providing comfort, or even feeling as though you're providing comfort. I say thing because when my sister was dying, I don't think she knew I was there, but I was unwilling to leave her until she left me, and I stayed with her until the last breath. In her case, that's what I could live with. I wasn't horrified by the experience, or by seeing her in an open casket, although it was difficult for me to leave her there and go home, and I felt there would have been more closure if we had buried her instead of cremation (it wasn't my choice to make).

My mother had the idea when her best friend died that she wanted to remember her as she was, and since my mother was travelling (visiting me, as it happens) when her friend took sick she continued with her plans even though I urged her to go home and be with her friend. Years later, she told me she regretted that decision and felt she should have been there, and she did not make the same mistake when my sister died. She sat by the bedside holding my sister's hand for the last few hours of her life, even though she had to sit in a wheelchair since she's no longer ambulatory. I don't know if my sister knew that Mom was with her either, but Mom knew, and that was the important thing. Yes, it's what you can live with, and what you'll want to remember in the end. I wanted my sister to be enveloped in love and warmth as she died, and we did our best to accomplish that.
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I agree that if you don't want to be there you shouldn't do it. I, too, want to remember people as I knew them in life. I would go and see them to say my last goodbyes, while they were living, if they are close to me even though they didn't know me.

I spent quite a bit of time with my Grandma growing up who lived in a small town. She lived next door to a funeral home and felt it was her duty to visit there if they "had a body", whether she knew them or not. Me, being very young, had no choice but to go with her. When I became a teenager, I refused to look at anyone in a casket, I had had enough. My Grandma thought I was a terrible person for thinking that.

Through the years I have seen death, the worst was walking in to see my Dad, unexpectedly, dead in the floor, I was alone. It was terrifying for me as I dialed 911 to report it at the scene (at the time, there weren't cell phones). The firemen arriving, then the police, all were very nice and comforting to me. A fireman came to tell me that there was nothing that could be done and asked if I wanted to see him warning me that rigor mortise had set in and that his legs and arms were in the air, that news put me in more of a downhill spiral. He was pronounced dead at the scene, I then needed to wait for the funeral home to come get his body. It was the coldest day of the year, I paced the backyard with his dog for several hours with light snow falling.

I know there is a good chance I will go to wake Mom and find her gone, I am prepared for that. Even now, I open the door slowly, then watch to see her breathing.
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Totally understand how you re feeling and respect your decision. With my Father i had not chance to be there his wife wrote to me from another country to tell me. We had visited a few years before and that is how I remember him.
My mother passed alone but not in distress. Friends had visited and she made teamed after they left she was in her kitchen washing dishes and just dropped dead. When we arrived a few days later i did not want to see her so did not go although my hubby did. i just did not want to have my last memory of her dead. I did see my MIL and was totally shocked by the way she looked and can't get that out of my mind. Her appearance had been so important to her and she kept her hair tinted and there she was with straggly grey hair that I know she would have hated. I try and remember her in life but that image just won't come. So do what is comfortable for you. Just be sure you manage to say your goodbyes if you are able before she goes. Many many years ago I had a 26 year old patient with a six week old baby dying from kidney faure (Before dialysis0 AND I WAS UPSET AND FELT HER HUSBAND DID NOT CARE AS HE HARDLY VISITED IN THOSE LAST WEEKS. BUT MY HUSBAND TOLD ME HE WAS STAYING AWAY BECAUSE HE DID CARE A GREAT DEAL AND JUST DID NOT WANT TO SEE HER DYING AND SUFFERING.
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my 28 yr old son was murdered 5 weeks ago . i did not participate in his final arrangements at all . i contributed financially but i have no desire to view a corpse . now a 35 yr old therapist questions why im not crying my eyes out every day . im conducting myself just like my son would conduct himself if he lost me . its an internal thing and im at peace with our relationship and my parenting and i dont owe anybody s#it ..
i was waylaid on the road yesterday by a funeral procession . i fail to see where their ritual is any more credible than the way i deal with grief .
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I really think it depends on how close you are and how much trouble it would be to get there. Seeing someone we know dead is never a comfortable thought. I'm always surprised, though, that the person in the coffin doesn't really look or feel like the person we remember. The spirit of that person has already gone, and with it took the expressions and essence of the person.

There are a couple of things valuable in seeing someone either before or after they die. It helps to bring closure. Strangely enough, I don't really feel that my brother is dead because I didn't see the body. I just saw an urn that looked like a Crown Royal bottle. (That seemed a bit fitting, since the alcohol had been what cut his life short.) I don't know if closure is important for people, but I imagine that it could be. The other thing that is important is being there for the survivors. They will remember who did and didn't come to pay final respects.
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There are two different issues here, viewing a body after death and being with someone in their final days/hours. Sometimes we feel a need to see the body in order to internalise the reality that they are gone, I think that denying that can be just as harmful as forcing someone who is reluctant to view the body.

As for being on hand at the final moments, once someone is no longer conscious then I don't fault anyone for staying away, but it breaks my heart to think of anyone being alone during their final moments. Just because a person has dementia and doesn't know their family anymore shouldn't give them a free pass to stay away.
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I think it depends a lot on how we are conditioned to view life and death. Both my parents were born and raised on farms, thus saw a lot of life and death. And they passed that onto me that it is part of the plan.

Seeing Mom [98] in her coffin at church gave me peace knowing she was with the rest of her large family. That was so much easier to deal with then the sharp memories of when she had delirium episodes which were so very unsettling.

As for my Dad, his passing was much quicker then any of us had expected. Dad had a viewing at church, also.... he was dressed in his favorite flannel shirt, had on his reading glasses, and tucked under his arm was the most current hometown newspaper. Dad looked pretty much like he looked when he was alive, sleeping back in his recliner with his newspaper. He's now with Mom.

I wasn't one to attend other people's funerals unless that person was an immediate part of the family or was a very dear friend. Now that has changed, recently I went to sig other's boss's mother funeral even though I didn't anyone involved.
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ff, you wrote it so well. I also go to more funerals now. It is my small way of saying that I care. The saddest thought to me would be what if they had a funeral and no one came. :'( I love that the family knows the person was cared for and remembered. I also write condolences on the funeral home sites online. I'm now a bit supporter of carrying a dish to families who lost someone -- that meant so much to us when my father died.

I didn't know what to do when people died until I saw what people did for us when my father died. I didn't have a clue, even though I had gone to funerals and sent flowers. I'm ashamed that I didn't learn until I was 60 years old!
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It is not wrong to feel anything... but it is a bad thing to actually stay away because of those feelings, if the person dying is aware they have been left alone or abandoned - it could make a hard thing so much harder for them.

Where I work we occasionally see parents abandon a child with cancer or a disability and it is just unbearable to watch them suffer not just from their condition but from the loneliness and the feeling uncared for almost no matter what we do.

That said, funerals are for the living. If you care about the people left behind, it is almost always good to go if you can. If your being there won't comfort anyone but you, really, and it does nto comfort you that much, I think its OK to express condolences and not go.
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And SkyHigh, I thank you for your service and I am so sorry for al your losses!!
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Captain. I'm truly sorry for your loss.
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I think the decision is entirely personal. A lot also depends on the kind of relationship you had when the person was alive and healthy.

I stayed by my Mom's bedside long after the doctor's told me she wasn't aware anymore. I remember one afternoon sitting with Mom and holding her hand and the doctor coming in and quietly saying "You know she doesn't know you are holding her hand" I said "Yes, I know, but I am doing this for me now"
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Gershun, I remember Hospice telling me that once a person is in a coma, that the person can still hear what people are saying. I even asked what about my Mom who had lost her hearing, and was told that sense increases because the other senses had faded.

Why I was wondering about that was because I was in Mom's room watching movie, which was Mom's favorite, and when the movie ended, Mom passed 5 minutes later. It was almost like she was watching it [even in a coma].
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Freqflyer I could tell that my Mom could hear us for a while. My Hubs would phone me and when my cell rang my Mom would jump. But towards the very end, the phone didn't startle her at all so I knew then that she wasn't going to know I was there.
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I appreciate everyone's thought here, but I don't think some of you do not understand the situation. My father-in-law is basically gone. His mind is gone, he does not know his wife of 65 years, his daughters and, his sisters. As I age (71) I realize that death is a debt we all have to pay.
I have died once in 1991 after a horrific industrial accident, the doctors were amazed that I was still alive. My employer wanted me med-flighted to a larger trauma hospital some 30 miles away, but the doctor told them if I was moved I would die on the way. They fear that my aorta was torn away from my heart. While I was having a heart scan I basically died, I had lost so much blood that I had zero out on the BP monitor. I said to myself "Damn I am dead" then all the pain had gone. Then I awoke and the pain was back. No, I did not see the light, I did see myself lying on the table and the doctors and nurses screaming and yelling, I did not hear them until I awoke. I spent from 9:30 AM to 1AM in the trauma unit. At 1AM I was stable and sent to ICU.
In this situation, I was aware of my surroundings.
My support comes from cooking and preparing the meals for my wife's family. taking care of the family business and many other chores, running errands for the family. I did see my father-in-law before he lost his mind. He does not respond to any stimulation. I am busy all day running errands and doing for the family.
We do not grieve for a lost one but celebrate their life. I will be doing the memorial service for my father-in-law, I will talk about his life and the good memories. At 93 he has beaten the odds. I lost my father in 1985, he died suddenly, I lost my mother in 2011, while she was still awake for the first time in my life she told me she loved me. I watched her die, a horrible death.
I have seen too many people die in my life, young men dying in battle, friends and family. It has been a heavy burden to bare.
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Skyhigh, you can only do what you can do, if you can't face it then you will have to find your own peace with that. I do not condemn you, but I disagree with your viewpoint. Just because someone doesn't know their wife/child/friend doesn't mean they are not aware in that moment that those people are somehow special visitors. And I believe no nurse or stranger can provide the comfort or say the words that someone may need to hear in their final days and hours. You heard your mother's final benediction, something she needed to say. Would you rather has missed it?
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Skyhigh, if it is your FIL, will your decision affect your wife? How does she feel about you not going with her to visit? Is it causing friction? If not, I don't see any problem except possibly feeling some guilt.

Your question does remind me a lot of a thread we have on the group about the reasons siblings don't help with caregiving. I don't know how close you were to your FIL and if your seeing him will make any difference to him. The only thing I would consider would be the impact on the rest of the family, especially the spouse.
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My wife is OK with it, she had rather have me nearby just in case she needs me, We live withing 2 minutes of the hospital, After 44 years of marriage she know how I feel. She feels like I do too much,; far more by taking care of business, running the errands and picking up prescriptions. Believe me, I work 12 to 14 hours a day trying to get everything done i.e. which she needs to be done.I suffer from acute spinal problems and literally push myself to get things done. Many time I fall asleep sitting here at the computer many evening; exhausted from a full day's work.
I was up before daylight fixing breakfast for the family so she could feed the sisters and her aunt. There are many other ways to support the loved ones. My being there will not help the situation, he cannot hear, see and is completely incoherent.
His sisters live 1 hour away and I shuttle them back and forth to the hospital. I do support my wife, sister-in-law and his family that are still alive.
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Skyhigh, you are there for your wife and that is soooo very important in my book. I think she appreciates it more that your time is being spent helping her than visiting her father in this situation.

My sig other didn't like walking into hospitals or going to visit my Dad when he lived in Independent Living because he didn't like seeing people with walkers. Sig other would leave me off at the door.... [sigh] Now if he would be home helping with chores it would have been a different story, but he didn't. There has to be give and take in these types of situations. And you are doing that, giving some balance to a stressful situation.
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Sky high I wrote before and I appreciate the update. I think after rereading this update that you are doing what is so important now. You are doing for the living and helping your wife and I so admire that. My husband supports me emotionally and with acts of kindness to my mom. All one can do is their best and no one else can say what that is. As I see this in a fresh light ...I see you doing all that you can and you should not feel quilty about your decisions. I think of your situation often and hope you and your wife may find strength and comfort in the days ahead.
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Skyhigh, you sound so considerate to me. It sounds to me like you have really gone the extra mile for your FIL and your wife. I don't think there is any reason to feel bad about not seeing him now and remembering him as he used to be. Big hugs.
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I didn't see either my beloved grandmother or mother in their last days. Both of them were not responsive any longer and showed no signs of knowing there were visitors. I also chose not to see them displayed in caskets. I have countless wonderful memories of both in their lives and wanted it to remain as just that. I know people are different, but for me, I don't understand the need for looking at the dead, I'd much rather remember the person in happier times. God bless
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You grieve the way YOU want, and based on your experiences have every right to not want to relive painful situations. We all are indebted to you for having served this country, and enjoy this upcoming Veteran's Day because all of us are honoring YOU. God Bless You!
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When my mother was move to a SNF for ‘comfort care” in her final week I had cousins on my Dad’s side want to visit and I told them no, remember her as she was. Her sister was with her daily and I was able to spend the Sunday evening and Monday before she passed with her. I did not bring my husband & son with me, again not wanting them to remember her there. The only other visitors we allowed were my Aunt’s son and his wife. They saw her on Sunday and had ice cream with her. I got the call on Wednesday morning that she had a difficult night and the end was near. My Aunt and I spent the day with her, late in the afternoon they said she’s probably last the night so my Aunt sent me home (2 hours away) to be with my son and then bring him and my husband back to Mom’s house. Mom waiting until I was more than ½ way home and then took her final breath. I think she was determined that I not be there and was far enough away that I would go e with my family.
We did a similar thing with my FIL a few years later. Our son saw him while he was still able to communicate but once he was past that stage only his children and spouses were allowed if they wanted. One daughter & son chose to remember Dad as he had been and not visit. His youngest daughter and my husband were with him his final days because they wanted to be there.
It’s up to each person to make the decision
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Skyhigh Your post is beautifully written, and Your approach to death makes perfect sence to Me....Of course You were furious Your Sisters disobeyed Your Mothers wishes, since Ones last wishes should be honoured.
I look upon death as Our Love Ones Spirit moving on ahead of Us, but Wee'l meet up with again a little farther down that long winedy road of Life
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