Is there any evidence that narcissistic behavior is genetic or passed down through generations through learned behavior from others?

If you want good, scientific evidence, I'd try the medical sites first.  I don't know if NIH, Mayo Clinic or other top notch medical facilities address it, but I would search as well for reputable psychiatric, psychological and other behavioral sites for documented analyses.

Dear "Chriscat83,"

From what I understand about narcissism - people are not born this way. They have suffered some form of abuse when they were in early childhood whether it be physical, emotional, psychological abuse or neglect and ended up shamed. They can have narcissistic parents and end up narcissistic themselves but, also many do not.

I watch many good youtube channels regarding this - i.e. where it comes from. Dr. Les Carter, Dr. Ramani Durvasula, Melanie Tonia Evans, Stephanie Lyn Coaching for starters. Also, Assoc Direct - he actually has made a documentary.

Once you get to know it - trust me, they all play by the same "playbook" and I've had two in my life which I didn't know at the time until 30 years later. One being my half sister who was 15 years older than myself (she never lived with my mom and dad and I) and unfortunately, my first love at the tender, naive age of 17.
The damage can be devastating. Hope that helps!

Yes, we repeat behavior we know, behavior we have learned. Basic psychology. An abused child doesn't recognized he is being abused; he believes what happens to him is normal. Often what we can learn later doesn't negate this early learned patterning. Take a childhood psychology course. You will LOVE it.

Hi,Chriscat83;

Thus far, academia and the medical field both describe it as a combination of nature + nurture.

That personality type usually pretends to be clueless, yet will rage if they're reminded that they hide their deplorable abusive behaviors and whisper abusive statements, YET they behave appropriately in public.
They choose to abuse and are 100% control of everything.

The easiest concept, to help you understand = They are VERY MUCH in 100% control of their behaviors and actions and statements. They know their actions are abusive and wrong, which is why they save their manipulation and control for their victims, and don't treat everyone in a deplorable manner.

Everything they do has an "agenda" and is purposed to control + provoke scapegoats and significant others; they play dumb to confuse and to upset their victims.
Their victims are trapped inside an abuse cycle, which is reinforced daily, with messages that get victims to believe that the abusive person will change permanently into the kind personality the abusive person pretends to be, when the victim is compliant, obeying the abusive person's implied and stated directives.

Read the book , "Why Does He Do That?" By Lundy Bancroft, which explains deliberate actions of abusive individuals, who reportedly claim they would never abuse their mothers, just their significant others, through a slow insidious process.

NEVER feel sorry for them. They love the power they feel when in full-abuse-mode. They will say things to get you to think that they can possibly "change," and to get you to think that you're the problem; when in truth, THEY are 100% the problem, and deliberately choose to be kinder to strangers than their victims.

Chriscat,

This question is very thought-provoking, especially when we see it in the family dynamic. I've researched it, and even though I can't furnish references right now, modern wisdom says nuture is stronger than nature; that is to say narcissism is thought to be a learned behavior, but like many psych disorders, more and more evidence builds to suggest it may be passed on genetically....sometimes in children and sometimes skipping the first generation to grandchildren. I have personally observed what appears to be both.

Look for Lisa Romano on YouTube, she discusses the narcissist on all levels within her videos. I found them very helpful as I struggled to understand my Mothers lifetime of bad behavior.

I was thinking about this the other day. I remembered that up to the age of about 30 I behaved in the same way as my mother, which was needing to be a victim. Looking back, this behaviour was definitely learned from her. LuckilyI managed to get away from her aged 18 and moved away. However she moved my way 8 years ago and her behaviour never changed. In fact it got worse. She has lived with me for the past four years and I have hated every moment. She is not the sort of person I would ever choose to be with and her behaviour makes me cringe. Thank goodness I realised how i was and managed to change!!!!!

It is an interesting one. I personally think nature, rather than nurture because if you are a victim you can quite clearly see what is wrong with the treatment that is metered out (even if you can't label it). Not copying it becomes a choice - or at least did for me. The unfairness of being scapegoated by a parent, for example, has made me careful in my dealings, especially with my own children.

I can totally relate to the recent messages from NannaJ and Wise Owl, so thanks very much to both of you for your insight. I look back to when I was younger and don't see a nice person, as my behaviour was probably mirroring my own experiences in my upbringing. Just like NannaJ, around the age of 30 I felt this was wrong and set out to learn new behaviours towards people. Also, like Wise Owl, I've been very clear that I would treat my own child with love and kindness rather than with abuse and control. NannaJ, I'm sorry to hear you still have problems with your mother, although it sounds like you are very clear in your mind about her behaviour. I hope this helps you to deal with it and so minimise the damage she can still inflict upon you.

I’ve been very interested in this question as well. I recently read Soul Signs by Rosemary Altea. She provides incredible insight on this topic and explains how we’re each wired (so to speak) a given way and behave accordingly. With conscious effort we can adjust ourselves, but it can feel like swimming upstream. Most people don’t even register a real need to make alterations to themselves. I was fascinated by the book and it shed light on my mother’s and my lifelong struggles with our relationship. I now understand it was her makeup, not my behavior that made it nearly impossible to please her. Weight off my shoulders! Truly insightful book- find time & check it out!

I have only had the 'pleasure' of knowing one true narcissist personally. I think we all have moments, some more than others of course. But a true narcissist is something else entirely. Understand that my father-in-law has not been diagnosed, but it is pretty clear. A lot of what is being said is one point for him. He was abused emotionally and verbally by his dad, potentially physically but that has never been talked about. His mother and grandmother, perhaps to counteract, spent all of their energy catering to his every need. As a result, he grew up under the impression that women especially were put on the Earth to provide for his needs. Until adulthood he never lifted a finger to do anything for himself. As an adult, he worked, but more at what he wanted, when he wanted. He married a wonderful woman who unfortunately perpetuated the belief that women were put here to wait on him hand and foot, even though she worked twice as hard as he did. He sees things through the lens of everyone on earth is here to take care of him, so it extends to waitstaff, home health, store staff, customer service. He will expect others to bend to his will, and at first he will will flirt or smile or turn on the charm, talk about all of his health issues, his age, the death of his wife etc. If that doesn't work they get accused of trying to scam him, taking advantage of an old sick man, etc. Typically these are unreasonable requests the person cannot fulfill to begin with.
I lean a little heavier on the 'learned' behavior simply because no one has ever really put him in his place and now we are fighting an uphill battle to be heard. He spent years grooming his children to take over for their mother and they have ingrained responses to his initial requests.
But I've found that the aging narcissist begins to falter, not get better but get even more committed because they are dealing with a dwindling supply line and fewer and fewer people who will take care of them. Over time, it is harder for them to keep up the 'pretty' shield and it becomes much more apparent who they really are and what their agenda is. As a result, they tend, or at least he does, to resort to anger and bullying to get those closest to them to continue the game.
As far as inherited traits. I periodically see certain traits in my husband and I call him out on them immediately. I see traits in our oldest daughter and I call her out on them. But over all neither are really ANYTHING like him, they just periodically exhibit a behavior we see in him. Their worst nightmare is to become like that. Sadly, at this point my FIL has almost no one left. He has run most away. And those of us he is stuck with aren't taking his crap anymore, and he's struggling because his long reign of terror has run out and now he has to deal with it.
But historically speaking, he has always been this way and will always be this way and aging is something he just can't come to terms with because it's not supposed to happen to him. My husband and I can basically tell him no and walk away, but I've seen it really get interesting since my sis-in-law, who lives with him, has started standing up to him and pushing back.
When it comes down to your needs, a narcissist isn't designed to really care except for how it impacts them. We keep telling ourselves it is a mental health issue, and that helps some, but there is a fine line and you have to protect yourself. You have to have boundaries, and you have to maintain them regardless of how hard they try to knock them down. And they will try, because they think if they push long enough you will give in. And if you do, you have to start all over again. It's not easy, but keeping those boundaries helps at least to protect yourself.

There's no guarantee that it does, but it certainly can. My father was a narcissist (I was the scapegoat, out of 6 kids, because I'm an empath). My oldest sister, is also a narcissist. Narcissism starts in childhood, or youth. Their emotions were not reciprocated ideally in their early years, and hence they grow up with a lot of "emotional pain" and instability. They (narcissist) try to cover up the pain by creating a grandiose sense of self, and seeking external validation and attention. I'm on facebook if you'd like to reach out to me, as I've healed and recovered after 50+ years of emotional abuse, from the hands of my father.

Some mental health problems are inherited - like bipolar disorder. Other family issues are learned behavior - such as abusive actions. It may be a combination of the 2: shorter attention span, shorter duration for frustration... combined with never learning to consider others and their needs. In a senior with dementia, people continually and gradually lose the most current memories and revert to younger and younger memories and behaviors. I know of women who get to a point of not tolerating men in their presence when they revert to a stage when they were assaulted. Of course, problem behavior should be dealt with consistent, firm boundaries and immediate, kind consequences.

Thank God I never have had to deal with this personality. But from what I have read, Narcissism is a personality disorder and as such I think you are born with it. They can show no empathy I don't think they can. The brain is just wired wrong. They don't go for help because they don't think they need it. Not saying that a child doesn't learn from this behaviour and mimics it. But as some wrote they realized later on that their actions were wrong. A don't think a true Narcissist ever sees where they are wrong.

I have dealt with personality disorders and it took me a while to realize that is what they were. My MIL was passive-aggressive. Got her way by just going ahead and doing what she felt was best even though she was told not to do it. Her sons got around it by just letting her do what she wanted. Drove me nuts. Eventually, I just let her do what she wanted. Saved me looking like the bad guy. She also lied.

Then I have a SIL that likes to play games. To friends she is the nicest person and treats them better than family. She is a b*tch to her family. Doesn't take her much to be mad at u for something. I didn't speak to her for 10 yrs for the way I was treated. Did she care, no. My FIL said she was jealous. Of what? She came from a family better off than mine. Has a very nice husband and 2 great kids besides her being the way she is. Not sure what her disorder is but she plays the victim. Her family tried to do an intervention and all she did was cry. She didn't see what they saw in her. Her way is better. And my problem, I have the personality that these type of people hone in on. I just stay away.

So I feel a true Narcissist is born that way. That it is genetic. There is something missing in the part of the brain that has emotions. They don't see what they do as wrong. It is a mental sickness that there is no cure for. For one, they don't seek help because they don't see where they do wrong. The best thing when coming up against this type of person, is to stay away because you will never win with them.

What you are describing sounds like mental illness - especially finding a “scapegoat.” I believe it is genetic, as many in my family have been diagnosed with various recognized and medically-treated psychological problems.

Those who are most ill sometimes are able to continue untreated, causing difficult pain for those living with them.

Talk to your mother’s primary care physician if you feel that she could potentially benefit from treatment.

This is not uncommon and there is no reason that you should be living in an impossible situation.

Yes, narcissists ARE in control, 100%. And, the older they get, the longer they have functioned in that mode, the more they have learned when to cover it up and appear to be 100% innocent of any claims that they are a narcissist !!! In fact, they are so good at it that they can even "fool" many well-trained psychologists or psychiatrists as well as knowledgeable, intelligent people until later, often much later, when 20/20 hindsight enlightens the victim in an "aha" moment.

As such, narcissists can be totally dangerous people. Psychological/mental behaviors can overlay one another. The person I speak of here crossed the line into "Munchausen by Proxy" and nearly killed someone near and dear to me. After drugging her, she became virtually comatose for 3 days. Then he sprung to her rescue, taking her to the hospital, and it appeared to her and her family that he had "saved" her, for which he was more than happy to take credit.

But there were ongoing repercussions for her health as she healed from the poisoning, and his subsequent behavior eventually revealed the depth of his deception. But only in private to her. He had managed to isolate her in such a way that everything appeared to be her fault, or her problem. Even today, some of her family still think of him as a good guy.

She has regained her health and moved on in a positive way. The sad thing is that he will undoubtedly live the rest of his life as the narcissist that he is and, with no ability to prove what he did, he is likely to repeat his destructive and egregious behavior with others. When it comes to narcissism, be aware that the narcissist is a real pro at camouflage. There is plenty of good information available to assist one in recognizing narcissism, so study up and protect yourself !!!

I am no expert, but I can tell you this they seem to be in control of their behavior when it benefits them in some way, but if you challenge them with the facts or the truth of things they will lie, slander you, try to turn people against you, fool gullible vulnerable people and are as phony as a 3 dollar bill, they will rob you blind, charming to people in power, evil to family that they can not fool or bring down!

Hi there, I’ve been studying narcissism for 4 years now. We all have certain narcissistic traits from time to time. But Narcissistic Personality Disorder is what you are must likely speaking of. You may be born with certain personality tendencies, but your not born with NPD. It’s a defensive mechanism from with in, caused by traumatic situations that happened most of the time during childhood.

Tell tale signs are the lack of empathy, self centeredness, very controlling, and sometimes very passive aggressive behavior. The raging is one way to display it as well. Although that sounded a little more like a Bi Polar disorder.

I think a lot of our elderly become that way, especially those who live alone. They begin to feel that they are in survival mode and become selfish and self centered.

pray things work out for you.

Definitely learned, the verdict is out if it’s genetically predisposed. There is a good web podcast on Facebook, Surviving Narcassism

there are different forms of narcissistic behavior. I’ve heard people claim narcissistic behavior diminishes with dementia but that certainly was not true with my mother. She was always verbally abusive to me ( I was the family scapegoat that she projected all her bad traits onto, while in reality I had none of them. It totally messed me up) . Her last words to me were “ see what you did” ,in her usual hateful voice reserved for me, when she dibbled ice tea onto her self. The aide was holding the cup btw. That was with end stage vascular dementia.

I have also heard SOME narcissistic behavior stems from a lack of self worth. That was not true in my siblings as my sister who was always the princess is as narcissistic as my mother. So no trauma for her but she did and still causes plenty in others around her including her Own children .

My aunts and uncles, both parents were narcissistic.
Both aunts had three children in each of their families.
Two from each family were narcissistic.
Moms eldest is very narcissistic as is his only daughter and his grand daughter.
My other two cousins (one from each family ) are very loving, nurturing and respectful like me.
Grandma was very loving, nurturing and respectful.
I will allow you to draw your own conclusion.

It's my observation that ALL behavior traits increase with age, whether it's narcissism, stinginess, or even talkativeness. Summed up in this statement: When you get old, you are just like yourself, only more so.
My father would stop strangers on the street to tell them his life story. Poor as a child, always lacking enough money, he actually kept pennies in a jar and frequently counted them to make sure they were all there. If he missed one he loudly proclaimed he was robbed.

Dear "Chriscat83,"

Another element to consider is they often have addictions such as drug, alcohol, pornography, sex (which can also translate to infidelity in romantic/marital relationships) even extreme exercising to keep in shape so they can lure in the next victim - they seem to need a type of "high" to even feel alive which makes sense as they need "fuel" which usually comes from their supply sources i.e. people. They are a bottomless pit. Whatever anyone does for them or gives them is never enough and never "good" enough.

They are often irresponsible with money and want the best of everything living well beyond their means. I just watched one from my distant past go into yet another bankruptcy, had to sell his nice house and held an estate sale to make money from the furnishings and other personal belongings - I was stunned as he and his current wife had lived there nearly 20 years, not to mention his previous mansion as well as a vacation home in Rocky Point. I have to say it was hard for me to see that he had prospered being so manipulative, cunning and controlling while my husband and I sometimes struggle. It wasn't that I wanted what he had, I just had a hard time feeling like he had been rewarded for all the destruction he's left behind. He told me once that he had hurt a lot of people - I believe him.

They are not introspective and therefore can't, won't and don't think they need to change. He actually told me he liked who he was and how he treated people (I'm sure that's why he sent his wife to AA). As "CarolLynn" mentioned, they can even fool trained therapists.

Watch the movie "The Picture of Dorian Gray." Even though it's an old movie, I think it has a lot of similarities to narcissists - especially the ending.


"Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves" Matthew 10:16

Now if that isn't a warning, I don't know what is!

Thank you to all who have responded so far. It is hugely reassuring, reading others' stories, to know that it's not just me who gets this treatment, and your collective advice is very helpful to me, in finding coping strategies. I do feel stronger now in being able to deal with it. It's a sad shame though that it's generated such a large response, illustrating how many people have this personality trait, or who suffer the effects from narcissists.

Another resource is a book titled Running On Empty by Dr. Jonice Webb. You likely suffer in what she terms "CEN" or "Childhood Emotional Neglect". It is a book that is not about being a victim of narcissism, but of being victorious by understanding the effects of a narcissistic parent(s). Or, if you're not particularly a book reader, go to her website. She provides a questionnaire to start the process of growing through and out of narcissism's sticky, tangled web. God is with you. Go for it!

It sure sounds like it's genetic from the generations in your family. I don't know my narcissist mother's family, but my two older siblings (the golden children) sure have something. From the outside it looks as if they treat their 2 children each well, but they're both sociopaths - a trait I sadly saw in their children now adults.

Have you already discovered the YouTube narcissist videos? I like "Inner Integration" and the early "Richard Grannon" things. Lisa A. Romano also isn't bad. Mainly all these things are helping people identify a narcissist so they have limited value for healing. The people are understandably selling their healing tips.

I think it’s a little bit of both. Hereditary and learned behavior at a young age. I believe therapy can help someone like this BUT only if they acknowledge there is a problem. All the therapy in the world won’t work if the person won’t open up and talk. My mother was in a mental facility for 30 days back in 1978. We still don’t know what her mental illness is because she didn’t open up and talk!!! She refused to talk about her upbringing or her childhood.

Hi I’m no expert on this but after doing a lot of reading on the subject
at least I’ve learned it’s not me.
And this type of person is sensational, pleasant and generous to people outside the family
Within the family they start with one victim , and chip away one by one as that victim gets their number


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We are all children of adam and Eve. Thus, we are all naturally prone to sins of all kinds.Apprently , God creates us with differing personalities just as he gives us different physical characteristics. Before Adam and Eve allowed sin and Satan into the perfect paradise God created,ouir differing characteristics were just pure joy and delight.Because, we are livin g in a cursed and fallen world,we develope all kinds of terrible problem including extreme selfishness. Currently, it is trendy to call this self centeredness narcissism. We can overcome such tendencies only miraculously by ther grace of God.Also, we can avoid ever taking any mind altering substances whether legal or illegal.With God's help, we can live victoriously most of the time and avoid becoming narcissistic.Nobody is irrevocably chained to bad DNA or any other bad thing.We can all, by the graceof God, be overcomers in this imperfect world.

Some people are atheists on here and that is perfectly fine too. Also, it is perfectly fine to take an antidepressant because our brains might be wired differently. Antidepressants save people’s lives!! Antidepressants help people who are suicidal and don’t turn to god because they are an atheist.

Indeed, under our wonderful U. S. constitution, itis fine to be an atheist.The same religiousliberty that guarantees my right to believe in and worship the God of Abraham also guarantees atheists to choose not to worship. In thisgreat andfree country, Muslems can worship allah openly and freely as long as they do not try to force sharialawupon anyone. Mormons, all kinds of Christians, Jews of all kinds; absolutely everyone has religious liberty. I, of course, want everyoneto believe as I do. Irespect their right under our constitution to not believe as I do.i continue to plead with everyone to never take any mind altering drugs. I respect their right, however, to ignore my adviceGod bless you everyone.