Is there any evidence that narcissistic behavior is genetic or passed down through generations through learned behavior from others?

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Is there any evidence that narcissistic behavior is genetic or passed down through generations through learned behavior from others?

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I've posted before about my mother's lifelong narcissistic behaviour, and wondered whether this can run in the family? If I think about it, my mother's father (my grandfather) behaved like this, as did his sister and their mother, my great grandmother. Each of them had a scapegoat, and also they were all intensely selfish and prone to rages. Is this inherited or did they just copy behaviour they saw and grew up with during their formative years? I'm still trying to understand this condition.

Family Caregiver Narcissism Relationships

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There are a number of situations where an elderly parent becomes more & more demanding & manipulative as their world constrict & they no longer have control of things like they did in the past. As they try to maintain whatever control they can over their lives, it seems they go overboard. I experienced this with my mother & she changed into a person I could not please. I am still trying to recover from this experience & to learn how to view her behavior in context. If a parent did not exhibit narcissistic behavior previously, then I doubt they were; however, my mother suffered several falls that resulted in severe blows to her head & I suspect that has something to do with the change in how she acted. I don't have the appropriate educational background or done enough research to say anything about individuals who are narcissist so whatever I would say couldn't be reliable.

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I have been surounded by extreme narcissists. The is a difference between regular narcissist impulses and NPD. That is, narcissistic personality disorder. Children normally go through stages of narcissist feeling -being the center of the universe and not understanding that other people's feeling are important. Through socialization they outgrow it. This depends on healthy ego development. I belive that our world today promotes NPD through the worship of celebrity and people with extreme good looks, known for their appearance rather than real achievement.
Anyway, narcissistic people feel inferior and develop a false self which they expect people to fall down and worship. They have no empathy for others. They use others to get their own needs meet. Be aware that underneath they are very jealous people and are not capable of being happy. Want to make them upset? Just show them how happy you are! They will do anything to spoil your good mood. They want you to feel as miserable as they are. They are big haters. You need to limit your exposure to them and hang on to your value of yourself. My mother was one of these and we had a very unhappy home. As a child victim it causes us to have low self esteem and depression and to not become who we are. Also we often become people pleasers and sometimes allow others to abuse or disrespect us. When I was much older I married a man with extreme NPD. Never saw the bad behavior until after I married him. Dr. Jeckel and Mr. Hyde. I met the real him. This was a good thing for me because it led to learning about this. I bought the book "Malignant Self Love" by Sam Vaknin. The amazing thing is that they all have the same behavior. Sometimes to a more or less degree. I saw then how often I had encountered it and how it had affected my life. It happens on the job too. Of course I divorced my husband. This was after I nearly had heart surgery because he had caused me severe stress. Of course it wasn't just him- it was growing up with my mother and my lack of developing my own healthy ego. I had a therapist at the time (I was being treated for PTSD from being severely abused as a child) and she said we all marry our parents. This was after I told her I had just married my mother. So we need to know we are living with the damage an NPD parent does to us. So I learned a valuable lesson that helped me to be free of this. Now I can spot one of these across a room and I will never come under their spell. If it is someone you don't know, they can come on very charming and seem so interested in you that you fall in love with them on the spot. Not the one you grew up with who lets it all hang out. I am grateful that I am not like that. They are very miserable people who can't love anyone ever. Usually they do not achieve much in their own life but tear down others who do. They seem to hate every one and it will be your turn sometimes. Love and value yourself. Allow yourself to be happy. Get away from these people as fast as you can.

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Dear "Goody2shoes,"

You are spot on about everything. Sam Vaknin was the perfect source for you to have read. I've watched his you tube videos over the past several years. The Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde is exactly what it's like and as I've said many times, they all play by the same "playbook."

I'm glad you were able get the therapy you needed as well as awareness so you can spot the a mile away! And you are right about marrying our parents as strange as that may sound at first.

I just saw the term P"N"SD for the first time - Post "Narcissist" stress disorder. Haven't watched the video yet, but I'd be interested to see the difference between the two.

Best wishes to you as you move forward in your life WITHOUT the narcissists!

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From what I understand now about narcissists, is that they chose certain people who fit what they are looking for as a victim of thier behavior. They don't act this way with everyone, if they did they would be caught in the act of narcissism. They want to control every aspect of the person's life they chose to use as a stepping stone, whipping post, and just segregate from all those who may help them recognize what the narcissist is doing behind the scenes to destroy any possible self-worth, self-esteem, and understanding of the deceptive behavior that narcissist build around them. Your truths become crazy rantings and no one seems to really care or understand why you keep attacking the person they spoke to and seems to care so much about you. Narcissists are working your friends, family, and neighbors, co-workers, whoever you associate with, behind your back. If you lost close friends in the past, but never got an answer as to why they don't want to be around you anymore, that's the narcissist working thier magic to keep you dependent on them, and since they are the only person who, although you would rather not turn to, is there for you. It is a sickness, I believe it stems from low self-esteem, jealousy, a tendency to find someone they want to be, or wish they were, an accomplished, smart, hard working, honest person who just doesn't see people as destructive, or jealous. Then they work hard to bring that person down and it's done very sneaky, and this allows them to feel superior. Family is usually where you will experience narcissistic tendencies first, after getting used to this behavior, I think we tend to draw those people to us as we fight to get away from the ones who already abused us. The craziest thing you should watch out for when looking for non narcissist people to befriend in the future, is those who preach about how they dealt with narcissists just like you did. They tend to latch onto you and then act out in narcissistic behavior, and there you go again. Put as much space between you and these types of crazy people, and once you move on, don't look back, don't even bring it up to people you meet, you are just going to cause the behavior to follow you. Bury it and live the one life you have knowing you survived another lesson in bad behavior. So many more to learn moving forward. Have a great day. Peace out.

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Until I learned about narcissism I always wondered why my mother made cutting remarks that brought me down whenever I was particularly happy about something, and winds me up just so she can then attack me for being annoyed. It's not what I would do to any of my own children.

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Many of the experts feel that narcissism is most likely a combination of genetics and environment. The neural connections in one's brain also play a part.
If someone has the genetic make up, it may have to be tapped into in order for
the narcissistic tendencies to come out. This is where the environment would be a factor.
Example: Some people are born with the genes that would cause one to have bunions. Both A and B have the genes. "A"has worn ill fitting shoes. "A" developed bunions. "B" lives in a remote country where shoes are not the norm and never developed bunions.

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I do believe this is genetic but can also be learned behavior.
My MIL is the biggest narcissist I have ever met. She has made life miserable for everyone in her entire family but with me it STOPS.
I refuse to let her control or interfere in my life because she feels she knows everything (I always tell her that she knows a whole lot of nothing) She is useless to be honest and jealous of the fact that I can love and take care of my husband better than she ever could. I don't like her. I dont want her around my family and if I never seen her again it would be too soon.

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https://dilbert.com/strip/2020-08-26?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+DilbertDailyStrip+%28Dilbert+Daily+Strip%29

Interesting that todays Dilbert took a shot at narcissism. I think the point is that while narcissism in obviously an issue, it seems to be the diagnosis du jour these days.

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I do not know the answers but would like to add one possible thought: OPPORTUNITY is often what makes people narcissistic. Now as soon as you see this or sense it, if you can't stop them in their tracks, then figure out how to get them out of your life before they destroy you.

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That is so funny. Opportunity hahahaha makes people narcs hahahaha!

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Chriscat,
I am the daughter of a narcissistic mother.
I have only recently realized what true Narcissistic Personality Disorder is.
After a ton of research, It appears to be nurture more than nature.
Having said that, children of narcissistic parents tend to either become narcissistic as a learned behavior or over pleasers in an attempt to avoid the narcissists wrath.
As I understand it, we are ALL born with some narcissistic tendencies, however, most of us realize that we are not the center of the universe.
Do a lot of homework!!! There are tons of videos on YouTube to help you understand and deal with your situation.
"Grey Rock " is a life saver!!
Best wishes and Blessings!!

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To Elaine 1962
Depression runs on both sides of my family. I think I was a happy child, but in fourth grade I had the beginnings of depression, low self esteem and doubts about my own exsistance. Suffice to say I started a new school with only two classes of the 4th grade and the " good girl, good student favorite" started to bully me. I had this "bully' for 4 years and every teacher had her on a pedestal. It wasn't until years later, I learned all I could about behaviors in psychology which I learned on my own. I reached a "burnout" period in 1996 when I was in a "toxic work environment" That is when I saw a wonderful psycholgist who worked with my doctor to get me on the right medications and pyschotherapy. I have been on medication since that time for anxiety and depression and these last 35 years have been the best of my life. It does not matter if depression is caused by stress, family dysfunction or physical cause, the result is the same; a chemical imbalance in the brain. It has been studied and it is now a medical diagnosis just as congestive heart failure, diabetes, hypertension, dementia and other physical problems are a medical health problem. I have had over 35 years as a registered nurse, got a Masters degree in child development and a B.S. in Vocational Home economics. One can have a better life when treated. In 1960, cancer was the best kept secret. We need to educate everyone on Depression and also other illnesses of the brain. To the others, I think that narcissism can be both nature/nurture. I grew up with two histrionic type people, my mother and my older sister who was the favorite. My mother became very narcissistic after my dad died in 1978. After my mother died, my older sister's narcissitic behaviors escalated and expected the rest of us siblings to co-tow to her and it didn't happen. She ended up having a mental breakdown because she was so angry that things did not go her way. What a waste! She was never the same and died in 2017 after multiple bacterial infections as her immunity system crashed. Sometime it is better not to be the favorite.

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You are not going to solve it. You must learn how you can deal with it as "always goes on" in her and your day. They "copied behavior". You learn when you have a "model narcisistis" as a parent. You probably have "not become" or you can satisfy it in your own life without affecting others. It is a real problem for you now as it is like a wound in your mother that never heals.

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Be sure you know what you are talking about.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20366662

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Yes it is Genetic in my older half brother case he inherited from his Abusive Father but now since his father is deceased it has taken a spiritual turn for the worse endangering the Family's balance health Wealth & happiness.

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Watcher,
I am wondering if you could provide any links that substantiate that narcissism is genetic?
I haven't found that in my searches and afraid I may have missed something.
Thanks!

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I think it was copied. There are some mental illnesses that can be inherited, but I am not sure about narcissism.

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Sadly, the judgements of today's doctors cannot always be trusted. Way back in the 40's, doctors seemed to have more wisdom and knoledge. Mothers were advised by their doctors to make sure to serve at least one whole egg, a lot f whole milk, and some real butter to their family members every day. Then, later on , doctors and so called nutritionists began telling everyone to limit consumption of whole eggs, whole milk, and butter.ThankfullyI knew better thant follow that very bad advice.Hopefully, such ideas are now rescinded and hopefully not too many were harmed by them. I do love and support doctors and medicine as a whole. I will, however, aways be glad I threw away prescriptions for lipitor, thiazide, fosomax, and vicodin without ever filling them.The way things are nowadays, everybody should very carefully do a lot of research before filling any prescription. Also, I do advise everyone to stay away from statins, narcotics, diuretics,biophosfonates, and so called antidepressants. i criticize nobody nor wish to shame anybody who disagrees with me. I send love to all.

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Bobie, you are correct that doctors used to be more well rounded and could actually treat a person in their entirety. Now they seem to be referralist and prescription writers.

We can thank sue happy people and insurance companies for a great deal of this, as well as government interference, doctors can no longer afford to be in practice alone and have all become corporate employees. This is socialized medicine without the title or the financial benefits.

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My father-in-law was always a narcissist and since my ex-husband acted just like him, so I believe it can be inherited. I have also read that it can be a learned behavior too but our sons are not narcissists.

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It is a wretched situation to ever be involved with.
Learned or inherited, we can sit on the fence.

My situation is, I live in a Nac Sandwich.
An only child Daughter to an elderly Mother whom after many years of hidden mental abuse behind closed doors sent me knocking for some serious therapy.
I am 63 now and took 62 of those years to understand why and who I am. Finally being told it isn't my fault.
My Grandmother was the same. Was it learned?

I am also a Mother to a Daughter whom I haven't seen for 6 years and had some terrible events over 20 years. She had me convinced that every small or large event in her life that she didn't like, it was my fault. On top of my Mothers manipulations, I often questioned myself so I could become a better person.
Sadly she has wiped her hands of me without a decent explanation saying I can see my Grand children under supervision. I felt betrayed and insulted. I often wonder if I didn't hold the reigns tight enough. She was my everything.
So, is it inherited? My daughter was a beautiful soul once.

Self preservation is now my life however, so many unanswered questions. I must bury the why's. Focus on the beauty in life with my wonderful, patient partner of 21 years.

Maybe when I die I won't been seen as the enemy anymore. It is such a shame I have had to miss out on my grand children growing up.

Acceptance.

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Kerring, I hope that you are still getting help.

Believing and verbalizing "maybe when I die I won't be seen as the enemy. " I honestly wouldn't let that attitude around my children or grandchildren. It's not healthy. Please think about what you project.

You can be a survivor or you can be a victim, choose to survive and let go for your own wellbeing.

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The judgement on most behaviors these days seems to be ‘a combination of nature and nurture’. People may have a pre-disposition to narcicism that never ‘flowers’ because their lives don’t foster it. Or being a 'spoiled child’ may result in being a spoiled adult whose inherent good qualities never ‘flower’ either. Children for whom life is always tough can be selfish to stay alive, even if they could in other circumstances be a lot ‘nicer’.

Chriscat says “I always thought my mother had a perfect childhood, wanting for nothing”. Being treated like a princess can lead to expecting the same for life, and learning many tricks to make it happen. To grow up well, children need to share, to try and fail sometimes, to do without, and to work for what they want. They also need to realise that their success may simply be luck rather than being too too wonderful.

At the other end of the scale, children who have to fight to stay alive, have nothing to share, always fail and never get what they want, can also become self centred because that is how they survived.

It seems as though the older children can do better, while parents lose interest in the younger ones. They turn into the scapegoats that get bossed around, groomed to stay that way, and be the one who inherits the care responsibilities. So you can get two different results from the same parents. And then there is a wealth of literature about the differences between oldest, youngest and middle children.

One thing that's clear is it’s very complicated!

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As I am not a trained psychiatrist or therapist, I cannot begin to suggest narcissism. You should garner as much information as you can from medical sites.

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Interesting question that hits home I have posted on my mom here and people say she is a narcissist, though I had never viewed her as flamboyant enough to be one. I was then told she's probably a covert narcissist.

But when I view her behavior, I see similar behavior that I exhibited when younger. I have had years of therapy and would like to believe I have improved, though probably far from perfect. But people say I am nothing like when younger and they say I am noting like my mother. '

Based on this I have to believe this is learned behavior. Probably like all things some of both, and they reinforce one another. But I think in my case anyways it can be unlearned.

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I do not believe there should be any shame connected with takingprozac or ny other such things.Shame or guilt have nothing to do with such decisions. It is just thatit is very unsafe and unwiseto take such things.I hopeand pray more and more people will avoid such things.Ast o narcissm, I think it may be true thati have never known a person with such a condition. As far as I am aware, I have not.I have known a few very exremely self centered people who abused those who would allowthem to do so.I have also known a lot of drug addicts all of whom became bipolar after a year or more of becoming addicted.I choose to never ever live with an addict nor with an abusive person.If such people become helpless andor dependent, I arrange assisted living for them. i choose not to live with them.Each of us, should be free to choosesuch things or not. God bless you every one.

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For you to keep insisting that it's 'unwise and very unsafe' to take DOCTOR PRESCRIBED MEDICATIONS is something that goes against AgingCare rules and regulations. Only DOCTORS can guide their patients about what medications are safe and wise for them to take for the diseases and ailments they suffer from.

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Guiltanddanger your mother sounds like my mother. I do the same thing now. If my mother starts verbally abusing me on the phone I hang up. If she verbally abuses me in person I get up and walk out. If I tell her she is being abusive to me she just says “oh sure, sure!!” Oh sure, sure!! In that condescending voice of hers. Then turns it around and says it’s my fault!! Yeah, been there, done that. Over it now finally!!!

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Good for you! You setting boundaries and following through is so significant. I have been working on that for some time now; though, I must admit it is challenging, as I sometimes fall back into being manipulated and letting myself fall for lies and intimidation tactics by the "narc" in my life.

Keep on with respecting and protecting yourself, building towards a safe and healthy future for you, and know that others here understand the difficulty of being on the receiving end of a person who is abusive, who "targets" others to hurt and to cause them misery.

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Tudy, why not tell your daughter you removed her as POA? Doesn’t she have the right to know?

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Look additional information in Psychology Today website. Requires a psychiatrist to treat narcissistic behavior that cannot be cured.

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Perhaps Prozac preventssuicide. i cannot know. i do know that xaanexcauses some people to become suicidal.I still do urgeeveryoneto always avoid mind altering substances of any kind.i also do knowcthat just daily sublingual B12 can heal panic attacks, depression, and other nervous system problems. Also, avoiding nutrition draining substanceslike statins and or diuretics can prevent nervous system disorders. In any case, I continue to respect the rights and choices of those who disagree with me. I hopeeveryone will join with me in loving andupholding our US. constitution and especially the 1st ammendment. Love to all!

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prozac is an SSRI, xanax a benzo. Completely different. An SSRI seeks not to "tranquilize" but to restore a normal brain chemistry. I think benzos are necessary sometime in the short term, but dangerous in long term and not like SSRIs.

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I will continue to plead with everyone to take an antidepressant if they need it. I was on Prozac back in 1998 after my father died and it literally saved my life!! I was on it for a whole year. I did therapy and took Prozac and I’m not ashamed of any of it!! I was in a deep dark hole and the only thing that pulled me out was Prozac. It is a chemical imbalance. People are suicidal when they have a chemical imbalance. Prozac literally saved my life. I was on it for one year and never had to be on it again. Don’t ever be ashamed to take an antidepressant to save you from killing yourself!!!! If I didn’t take it back in 1998, I wouldn’t be here right now!!!!!

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Indeed, under our wonderful U. S. constitution, itis fine to be an atheist.The same religiousliberty that guarantees my right to believe in and worship the God of Abraham also guarantees atheists to choose not to worship. In thisgreat andfree country, Muslems can worship allah openly and freely as long as they do not try to force sharialawupon anyone. Mormons, all kinds of Christians, Jews of all kinds; absolutely everyone has religious liberty. I, of course, want everyoneto believe as I do. Irespect their right under our constitution to not believe as I do.i continue to plead with everyone to never take any mind altering drugs. I respect their right, however, to ignore my adviceGod bless you everyone.

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BobbieSena
I want to start by saying that I truly appreciate your boldness for Christ!
I want to point out that like people who are of a different faith than ours, people who have NPD (an actual medical diagnoses)
think that their way of living is the ONLY WAY and refuse to see it differently.
Dealing with a narcissistic LO can tear you down mentally and physically.
Satan attacks when we are at our weakest point!
Of course prayer should be our first go to, however, when our health is truly suffering due to overwhelming stress we may need a little extra help!
After all, God also tells us not to be fools!
If you're in the middle of a flood and God throws you a life vest, it would be foolish not to put it on!!
Food for thought!!

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Some people are atheists on here and that is perfectly fine too. Also, it is perfectly fine to take an antidepressant because our brains might be wired differently. Antidepressants save people’s lives!! Antidepressants help people who are suicidal and don’t turn to god because they are an atheist.

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We are all children of adam and Eve. Thus, we are all naturally prone to sins of all kinds.Apprently , God creates us with differing personalities just as he gives us different physical characteristics. Before Adam and Eve allowed sin and Satan into the perfect paradise God created,ouir differing characteristics were just pure joy and delight.Because, we are livin g in a cursed and fallen world,we develope all kinds of terrible problem including extreme selfishness. Currently, it is trendy to call this self centeredness narcissism. We can overcome such tendencies only miraculously by ther grace of God.Also, we can avoid ever taking any mind altering substances whether legal or illegal.With God's help, we can live victoriously most of the time and avoid becoming narcissistic.Nobody is irrevocably chained to bad DNA or any other bad thing.We can all, by the graceof God, be overcomers in this imperfect world.

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BobbieSena, I share your deep belief in God and the power of prayer. But I wanted to comment on your statement about it being trendy to call self-centeredness narcissism. I truly believe true narcissism is very different from being self-centered. A true narcissist has no ability to have empathy or see that other people have needs. A true narcissist will take attention from anyone for any reason and can spin negative attention, will lie about people who care deeply for them and provide them a real source of love and support. A true narcissist, honestly I'm doubtful they have a real capacity to love, except where it suits them to gift others with their version of love so they look good to others. I don't think we are talking about self- centeredness here. As someone else mentioned, true narcissism is on the psychopathic spectrum of mental illness. That is not garden variety self-centeredness. I can only believe that you may not have encountered a true narcissist if you feel that way. I'd take self-centered any day.
As far as mind-altering drugs. I believe that Jesus is the great physician absolutely. But I also believe with my whole heart that he has given us people who can solve problems when this world breaks us. There is no shame in taking medication for heart problems, cancer, diabetes and a whole myriad of physical illnesses. There should be absolutely no shame in taking medications that can provide healing for mental health as well.
My FIL is the only narcissist I have ever known personally. To those outside until recently he has been an upstanding man of God. Served in the church, helped found a church, at church every time the doors were opened. As his health failed he watched church from home. But reality is very different. Reality was that it was the face he wanted people to see. He wanted to be admired and the best and to have people want to be him.
Ultimately his carefully crafted facade has collapsed and he is left with the people he has abused and used the most to take care of him because everyone else has turned their backs on him when they saw who he really was. Very sad but also richly deserved.

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Hi I’m no expert on this but after doing a lot of reading on the subject
at least I’ve learned it’s not me.
And this type of person is sensational, pleasant and generous to people outside the family
Within the family they start with one victim , and chip away one by one as that victim gets their number

m

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My mother was the sweetest person to everyone outside the family, and to my nieces and nephews. To me, she was emotionally abusive, nasty, contrary, negative and bitter. My brother was the golden-haired boy. Until I stopped subjecting myself to her abuse. It took me decades to learn to and decide to set specific boundaries. I told her I would not tolerate her abuse any longer. I told her if she started verbally abusing me on the phone that I would hang up. And I did. If we were together in person and she started the emotional or verbal abuse, I would leave. She always screeched that she wasn't being abusive. It broke my heart. I nearly had a heart attack from the stress. When I stopped taking the abuse, she turned on my brother. She lived the last year of her life in his house, being mean-spirited, and emotionally and verbally abusive to him. He told me he finally understood why I would hang up on my mother. I don't know if this is an inherited or learned behavior or disorder. I just know that I do not want to be like her. I want to enjoy life as long as I have it. I told my husband to let me know if I ever started behaving like her. She wasted so many years being unhappy and bitter. Nothing anyone could say, do or offer helped. She rejected all forms of help, including vacations. I can't explain it. I know it was draining, exhausting, and utterly heartbreaking to be the object of her bitterness. I thought she hated me.

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I think it’s a little bit of both. Hereditary and learned behavior at a young age. I believe therapy can help someone like this BUT only if they acknowledge there is a problem. All the therapy in the world won’t work if the person won’t open up and talk. My mother was in a mental facility for 30 days back in 1978. We still don’t know what her mental illness is because she didn’t open up and talk!!! She refused to talk about her upbringing or her childhood.

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Is there any evidence that narcissistic behavior is genetic or passed down through generations through learned behavior from others?

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